291882 Thu Feb 13 16:45:43 -0800 2003 53 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1590747 A long time ago, in a New Orleans restaurant, there was a place that had over 50 types of, I believe, bourbon. The bartender had this fascinating conversation going with another patron about how each was different. What is your favorite of the above and why. Since today's news that North Korea has missles to reach the West Coast of the US, I've decided this is the booze to stockpile. Of course, I would volunteer to help others, but after returning home (if I'm one of the lucky onese to have a home), I would think an excellent good drink would be in order. I would think in a true disaster, wine would not be enough. If nothing happens, well, I want to impress guests. Anyway ,St. Patrick's day is coming up, and there are always discounts in Irish Whiskey about that time. So it would give me a heads up for that holiday. Any links to previous conversations on this topic would also be welcome. Thu Feb 13 16:45:43 -0800 2003 0 Stanley Stephan 1 1590749 Depends on your poison. I prefer the Small Batch brands. Link below. Basil Hayden and a shot of water on the rocks is heaven. Link: http://www.smallbatch.com/ Thu Feb 13 16:55:39 -0800 2003 1590747 0 Dax 1 1590750 Can't help you with the Irish Wiskey portion of your question, but I can on the American bourbon part, since this is my poision of choice. Go for the Jefferson Private Reserve or the Blatners (which I think I've misspelled). I've seen both at BevMo in the Bay Area (in their locked cases). Neither is inexpensive, but each is a good sipping libation, perfect for calming the nerves after that post North Korean missle attack. I perfer the Jefferson. Maker's Mark works well as an everyday sip, and it makes a really good Manhattan. Thu Feb 13 17:02:24 -0800 2003 1590747 0 Gayla 1 1590751 I'm very fond of Old Overholt Rye Whiskey. Very cheap, but very smooth. I know for quite a while, at least, it was the last 100% Rye Whiskey made in America. I like it on the rocks or with Blenheim extra spicy ginger ale. Thu Feb 13 17:02:53 -0800 2003 1590747 0 LisaLou 2 1590821 Was (Is?) Old Overholt 100% rye? That's quite unusual; most Bourbons and ryes contain a substantial proportion of barley malt. I believe Anchor's Old Potrero is the exception, and it's only been made for a few years. Fri Feb 14 06:18:01 -0800 2003 1590751 0 Jim Dorsch 3 1590823 The bottle says 100% rye. And the person who introduced me to it is quite knowledgeable about whiskeys, ryes, bourbons and scotchs. He was very excited when he saw it behind the bar at the Green Mill in Chicago. The bartender was quite impressed that he knew about it and liked it. And at $12 or so a bottle, it's a little less expensive than Potero, if I'm not mistaken. Fri Feb 14 07:39:00 -0800 2003 1590821 0 LisaLou 4 1590826 I think it's a LOT less expensive than Old Potrero. Fri Feb 14 08:18:52 -0800 2003 1590823 0 Jim Dorsch 4 1590827 Old Overcoat has long been a favorite of the skid-row crowd, mostly by the pint, probably because the price was always right and the stuff wouldn't kill you outright. You still see it behind the bar of a certain type of establishment. It's not bad with ginger ale, but I wouldn't make a habit of it. Fri Feb 14 08:22:49 -0800 2003 1590823 0 flavrmeistr 5 1590831 Back when I used to drink spirits somewhat regularly, I enjoyed Old Overholt. I now favor Wild Turkey Rye. Since this topic came up, btw, I glanced at my copy of the Regans' book on Bourbon (and other American whiskeys), and I see that Beam now makes Old Overholt. Fri Feb 14 08:28:57 -0800 2003 1590827 0 Jim Dorsch 5 1590850 This is an outrage! Old Overholt suffers from a name that has been made fun of by cheap comics for years, but it is a fine whiskey. The bottom dropped out of rye whiskey after Prohibition, when distillers had to sell whiskey that had not been aged long enough, in order to stay open. "Rye" came to mean "Canadian" whisky or "rotgut," despite the fact that American rye whiskey has since recovered its glory. Old Overholt is the best damned bargain on liquor store shelves, excepting maybe Jim Beam Rye. And Old Overholt is sublime with ginger ale and a long, carefully cut tail of lemon peel, it's not just "not bad." If bums started drinking Old Potrero because someone handed it out on street corners, that wouldn't make the whisky BAD! Lew Fri Feb 14 09:50:33 -0800 2003 1590827 0 Lew Bryson 6 1590868 Hear Hear, you sir are correct ! when I travel to Toronto on business several times a year, it still irritates me that on a bar tab a blended whisky is shown as Rye. I mean any blended whisky. VO, CC ,etc. Fri Feb 14 11:31:55 -0800 2003 1590850 0 FatBob 6 1590878 I never said it was bad, I just said I wouldn't make a habit of it. If cheap rye is your thing, then drink up, I say! My personal tastes run to single-malt scotch, high quality 'shine, Czech pilsener and wines I can never afford. You're a lucky man indeed, Lew, to harbor such an affordable passion and, frankly, I'm a little jealous. Fri Feb 14 12:22:29 -0800 2003 1590850 0 flavrmeistr 7 1590891 Yes but if you can find a cheap flight to Prague you can drink all the Czech pilsner you want for a tenth of US prices. You're just living in the wrong country. ;) Fri Feb 14 13:04:15 -0800 2003 1590878 0 LisaLou 7 1590930 I would say 'inexpensive rye', rather than 'cheap rye', but that's just me. I get great enjoyment from finding food or beverage that I really like and is in the lower end of the pricing scale. OT - the appeal of this whole single malt scotch thing is lost on me. Fri Feb 14 16:05:05 -0800 2003 1590878 0 Suzanne 8 1591036 Ditto, Suze. If you run across any inexpensive single-malt, give me a holler. The last deal I ran across was a bottle of Speyburn in Louisville for an incredible 14 bucks. Also, some miniatures of Oban for 1.50 each in a bar in Pompano Beach. I greedily snapped up the whole lot. Sun Feb 16 10:54:33 -0800 2003 1590930 0 flavrmeistr 4 1590842 Old Overholt's good, but it's not 100% rye. The label (on the bottle sitting in front of me) says it's "Straight Rye Whiskey," but that just means it's not "rectified," or mixed with anything other than whiskey and water (the whiskey is cut down to 80 proof from barrel proof with water). Old Overholt is around 60-65% rye -- mashbills at Jim Beam are closely held, so it's hard to be sure, but Wild Turkey Rye is about 63%. The big difference with Old Potrero's mashbill is that it's 100% MALTED rye. 100% rye wouldn't work, no enzymes to start the mash. BUT you're absolutely right about one thing: Old Overholt is delicious whiskey, and an out-and-out steal at the price. Lew Bryson Fri Feb 14 09:33:21 -0800 2003 1590823 0 Lew Bryson 2 1590839 Oh Yeah ! Old Overcoat is about the best Rye I have tasted. Used to Like Michter's which was a small batch from Lancaster PA but they went out of business. Can't find PikesVille from Northern Maryland. The only Rye I see with any consistency is Beam's yellow label. It's certainly drinkable but not the smoothest. ALso drink Wild Turkey 101 but that is a little rough for me. Fri Feb 14 09:19:15 -0800 2003 1590751 0 FatBob 3 1590847 I finally found Pikesville (which is distilled in Kentucky now, by Heaven Hill) in a liquor store in Baltimore, Well's Discount Liquor (which has a LOT of great stuff, by the way). Still have three bottles of the Hirsch Reserve Bourbon, which is from Michter's: it is my favorite bourbon. Lew Fri Feb 14 09:45:52 -0800 2003 1590839 0 Lew Bryson 1 1590755 I'm a big fan of Maker's Mark. I haven't done a lot of tastings (I'm a swallower, not a spitter, so to speak), but compared to other brnds I've tasted, it is smooth and not too sweet. Knob's Creek, for example, was smooth but too sweet for me. jake Thu Feb 13 17:22:42 -0800 2003 1590747 0 jake pine 2 1590760 Try the other Small Batch ones! Knob is just one of 4 (and the cheapest) of them. Thu Feb 13 17:35:22 -0800 2003 1590755 0 Dax 3 1590845 Agreed! Try the Baker's, which is probably the most ignored of the four, but which I adore: a bit more rough-cut and full of flavor. Lew Fri Feb 14 09:43:20 -0800 2003 1590760 0 Lew Bryson 1 1590777 I agree with the recommendations for Maker's Mark and Jefferson Reserve, but my preferred bourbon is Woodford Reserve. Verrry smooth. I like it on the rocks, no splash. I went to a small batch tasting once and they insisted that the correct way to drink bourbon is without ice, but I definitely disagree. Thu Feb 13 18:39:00 -0800 2003 1590747 0 josephsm 2 1590780 I love Woodford Reserve. Really smmoth and great flavor. It doesn't hurt that the bottle is quite beautiful. They have it on sale frequently at the SF Safeway near Embarcadero (Jackson St.), Stanley. It's between $28 and $36 depending on where you go. My boyfriend drinks the stuff like water. Link: http://www.woodfordreserve.com/ Thu Feb 13 18:50:18 -0800 2003 1590777 0 Missy P. 3 1590801 We love Woodford's for sipping--advertised on sale at Montgomery County, MD Liquor Store this week for $19.99! We use Knob Creek or Maker's Mark for Manhattans. Favorite rye is Sazerac. It's expensive, but we savor it like a fine cognac. Exquisite nose and flavors of caramel, vanilla, wood, spices. Thu Feb 13 21:51:13 -0800 2003 1590780 0 zora 4 1590818 Thanks Zora, This is the type of info I am looking for. In addtion to good brands, why they taste good. Will look for those flavors of caramel, vanilla, wood, spices. Thu Feb 13 23:46:30 -0800 2003 1590801 0 Stanley Stephan 2 1590782 I think learning to drink bourbon without ice is an acquired taste. Doesn't it has something to do with the ice numbing the taste buds so that you can't really get the full impact and complexity of the flavor on the tongue? I can drink Jefferson without ice, but I prefer it with ice :-) Thu Feb 13 19:06:03 -0800 2003 1590777 0 Gayla 3 1590787 Actually, I don't really like any of these liquors neat, but the memory of that New Orleans bar stays with me. The bartender, it seems, was talking about peat and all sorts of variables in a fine bourbon (?). I'm thinking if you get into the really good stuff it is like wine tasting. Let see, trip to Ireland / Scotland or back to New Orleans? Thanks to all for the more realistic recommendations. Thu Feb 13 19:36:47 -0800 2003 1590782 0 Stanley Stephan 4 1590797 Imaybetotallywrong, but I don't think peat factors in bourbon at all. Unless Kentucky has bogs I'm unaware of. Now that I write that, though, it seems perfectly possible. Urp. One too many glasses of red. Thu Feb 13 21:30:11 -0800 2003 1590787 0 GG Mora 5 1590799 I think peat factors into Scotch. As in peat was the fuel used to fire the distilleries so the end product took on aroma and flavor of the peat from the fires. Perhaps it factors into Irish Wiskey as well? Thu Feb 13 21:46:34 -0800 2003 1590797 0 Gayla 6 1590807 Actually, I think the grain used to make the Scotch or Whiskey was dried over peat fires, which lent the characteristic smokey flavor. Interestingly, scotch is often aged in charred oak barrels that were previously used to age bourbon. Thu Feb 13 22:14:51 -0800 2003 1590799 0 GG Mora 7 1590812 Am I correct that aging Scotch in old Bourbon barrels is a fairly new thing? I know there is much interest in various 'finishes' these days. (Incidentally, my tipple of choice would be Wild Turkey Rye 101.) Thu Feb 13 23:29:26 -0800 2003 1590807 0 Jim Dorsch 8 1590844 Aging Scotch whisky in bourbon barrels is only 'relatively' new, like the last 70 years. Bourbon distilleries always have a LOT of used barrels to sell, because they can only use them once. Bourbon barrels are used to age scotch, rum, tequila...and for planters. Lew Fri Feb 14 09:40:41 -0800 2003 1590812 0 Lew Bryson 8 1590849 The Scots, being frugal, would buy whatever barrels were cheapest and use them to age their whisky. Because of their proximity to Spain many of the distilleries have traditionally used sherry barrels, but there have always been distilleries that used other barrels. The vast majority of single malt scotch is used for blending, and the blenders have always adjusted the selection and qualtitiies of different whiskies (and at different ages) to maintain a consistant products at the lowest cost. Since they were adjusting their blends constantly it didn't matter what barrel was used by any particular distillery. Even so, certain distilleries, Glenmorangie for example, has always used bourbon barrels in order to produce a lighter malt because that improved its marketability to blenders. It is only in the last twenty or thirty years that single malt whisky became widely appreciated, and that anyone other than blenders started paying attention to what barrel was used. And it is only in the last fifteen years or so that distillers started experimenting with different barrels, not to satisfy blenders, but to improve their consumer marketing positions. Fri Feb 14 09:50:04 -0800 2003 1590812 0 Deven Black 7 1590819 I think that sherry barrels are more traditional for Scotch, although it's a trendy thing now for Scotch distillers to age in all kinds of barrels. Glenmorangie has a taster set of whiskies aged in port, sherry and (damn, I can't remember the third) woods. Thu Feb 13 23:47:06 -0800 2003 1590807 0 Janet A. Zimmerman 8 1590838 Used Sherry barrels were traditional for Scotch when they were cheap. Now they're expensive and used Bourbon barrels are cheap so that's what the Scotch distilleries use mostly. Port and Madeira barrel aged Scotch is a marketing thing, and the results aren't very good...certainly not very traditional. G. Fri Feb 14 09:14:43 -0800 2003 1590819 0 Gargano 6 1590857 Peat is used in an Irish Whiskey called I believe Connemarra. Horrible stuff. absolutely undrinkable. Someone brought a bottle of this stuff into a house full of alcholics I lived with and it sat on the kitchen tabel for a year. Once in a while after a long night we'd come back and try a shot of it. always dreadful. Tyrconnell s another Irish Whiskey distilled more like Scotch. I like Irish Whiskey. prefer Jameson's and Tillamore Dew. Will do a Bushmills if the above isn't available. Just got a bottle of a small batch called Green Spot. My girlfriend just came back from Dublin and I had her hunt it down. its not bad, but not amazing. Red Breast is another I've heard of, but not yet tried. I can drink the Irish W. neat or over ice. smooth stuff. Bourbon, Jim Beam for me. I'll drink the nicer stuff ,but have a real love for the oak taste of the Beam over ice. Rye, I like Old Portero, Old Overholt. prefer these in cocktails, not neat Jack Daniels, and the like. not a fan of Sour Mash. Fri Feb 14 10:26:52 -0800 2003 1590799 0 SLAP 7 1590865 Isn't Tyrconnell a single malt ? BTW - TyrConnell means Donegal. Fri Feb 14 11:27:32 -0800 2003 1590857 0 FatBob 8 1590899 yes I think your correct. single malt, made in Ireland Fri Feb 14 13:53:21 -0800 2003 1590865 0 SLAP 7 1590905 Jack Daniels is a sour mash. What the term "sour mash" means is that a grain mixture is allowed to ferment, ie. become "sour" which results in a kind of beer which is eventually distilled into a clear, high proof liquid that will become whiskey if left long enough in the right sort of barrels. G. Fri Feb 14 14:14:22 -0800 2003 1590857 0 Gargano 8 1590962 By your definition, every whiskey is sour mash, because they all start with fermentation. Fri Feb 14 21:16:21 -0800 2003 1590905 0 Jim Dorsch 9 1590989 True. The term mash is certainly used in Scotch and Irish whisky/whiskey production. Why Kentuckians chose to add "sour" is beyond me. G. Sat Feb 15 11:15:48 -0800 2003 1590962 0 Gargano 4 1590810 But you won't have any ice, with no power, duct-taped in as you will be in your basement closet. Better start practicing now to drink it straight, or like scotch, with a few drops of bottled water. Thu Feb 13 22:57:55 -0800 2003 1590787 0 ironmom 3 1590822 I can't understand why anyone would drink whiskey with ice or water. But I believe the experts like Booker Noe recommend a splash. Fri Feb 14 06:20:35 -0800 2003 1590782 0 Jim Dorsch 4 1590843 Booker often drinks his with a LOT of water. But most bourbon distillers tell you to drink it however you want it. I only ever had one, Elmer T. Lee of Buffalo Trace, ask me not to add water, and that was just for the first taste of a new whiskey. Lew Bryson Fri Feb 14 09:35:51 -0800 2003 1590822 0 Lew Bryson 4 1591006 If you take it neat and chase it with water, the aftertaste rolls over the tongue and you pick up all the nuances - salty, sweet, bitter...(Works with all of them as far as I'm concerned.) Sat Feb 15 14:28:25 -0800 2003 1590822 0 applehome 5 1591027 I see now that my mistake was chasing Wild Turkey Rye 101 with Carlsberg Elephant Malt instead of water! Sat Feb 15 20:45:00 -0800 2003 1591006 0 Jim Dorsch 2 1590896 The correct way to drink bourbon is whichever way tastes the best to you. The same goes for choosing which wine to have with a certain food. I accept and try suggestions, but I do not drink something a certain way just because someone else says I should. Fri Feb 14 13:42:29 -0800 2003 1590777 0 Suzanne 3 1590922 I agree, Suzanne, I've been told by many an "expert" that I should drink bourbon (I'm a Maker's Mark fan myself) straight up. Jeez, I wonder if these people have FEWER TASTE BUDS and possibly an INSENSITIVITY TO ALCOHOL, while I am blessed with the ability to taste subtley and be strongly affected by strong flavors. The ice (and I add a shot of soda water, which I know is also non-traditional) conveys the bourbon flavor to my palate in a way that I can handle. I get the flavor and I enjoy my drink. It always makes me think of my two English friends (whom I love dearly but have yet to understand their eating and drinking habits) who keep their beautiful old crystal Scotch glasses on a "drinks tray" in their living room. Rims up. This means that most the time there is a little dust in them, which they may or may not blow out before dumping in some room-temperature vitriolic grain alcohol, neat. They are very fastidious about everything else in their house, but this room-temp, dusty "drinks tray" seems to be in everybody's house that they know. It's some English thing. My husband and I have joked that there should be another way to order a spirit other than "neat" "straight up" or "on the rocks". "With dust". I believe in drinking your spirit in the way that you choose. A good friend of mine (male, and tough in other respects, and quite a connosieur of wine and food) drinks Makers Mark with ginger ale! I personally find this yucky, but he enjoys it. My mother, during her first glass of wine at dinner, will often pour a little water into her wine (like the Ancient Greeks and Romans did!) to cut the tannic bite of the first glass. She says she picked this up on one of her trips to Italy, where she had seen it done in nice restaurants. I'm sure there are wine snobs out there that would sneer at her, but hey, she enjoys it that way! I say: Live and let drink! Fri Feb 14 15:35:02 -0800 2003 1590896 0 Mrs. Smith 1 1590791 If disaster strikes I have plenty of Bookers on hand, if that doesnt calm the nerves nothing will Thu Feb 13 20:24:59 -0800 2003 1590747 0 dzander7 1 1590875 John and I like Blanton's, Woodford Reserve, Knob Creek and Maker's Mark (I wish they still made the gold label. We're always looking for small batch labels. The wine store in Laurel Village (I think it's called Wine Impressions) has a nice selection of bourbons in addition to their wonderful wine selections. Fri Feb 14 12:05:03 -0800 2003 1590747 0 Nancy Berry 1 1590876 I have tried to give up spirits--but come nuclear destruction and worldwide pestilence, I probably will want a snort or two. In my years (and years) of whiskey drinking, I tended to prefer taste over smoothness. Wild Turkey 101 rye was my favorite rye--and their 101 bourbon isn't bad considering it's not a sour mash. My absolute favorite was Booker Noe. However, the last time I drank it, I can't remember the end of the evening, and I am told that I was making obscene passes at the wives of friends. Maybe something that tastes that good shouldn't be 126 proof. But what surprises me is that no one has mentioned the bourbon brand that was my day in and day out favorite: Evan Williams. Even though it is not quite as good as it used to be when it was 90 proof and 7 years old, I still think that it offers small barrel taste at a bargain barrel price. In my humble opinion, it tastes better than Maker's Mark and Knob Creek and several other brands that cost more for 750 ml than it costs for 1.75ml. Your results may differ. Fri Feb 14 12:11:59 -0800 2003 1590747 0 e.d. 1 1590982 I am a little surprised that, of all the booze Hounds weighing in on their favorite bourbons, no one has mentioned George Dickel. Quite inexpensive, smooth as silk. The 12 y/o is nicest, of course, but the 8 y/o is still 100 times better than (say) Jack Daniels, and usually significantly less expensive than the 12 (which is only about $15-$17/fifth). I think it is as smooth and tasty as Blanton's, at 1/3 the price. Try it. You'll like it. Sat Feb 15 10:13:40 -0800 2003 1590747 0 Robert 2 1590987 Robert, pardon the interruption for a quick request: we ask users not to frequently change subject titles. Doing so screws up the many chowhounds who read these boards via HotPosts (check it out, it's great, via link atop our home page), which are unthreaded. It's best for everyone if we keep the subject titles descriptive of the thread as a whole, and only change them if the discussion has substantially digressed. Thanks a lot! Sat Feb 15 10:55:55 -0800 2003 1590982 2 The Chowhound Team 1 1591065 one more cheap, fine bourbon: Elijah Craig. I like the slightly chalky, chocolaty aftertaste I get from it. It is not available in as many local stores as Knob Hill or Jim Beam or Wild Turkey, but I prefer it to any of them. Mon Feb 17 13:49:29 -0800 2003 1590747 0 kit marlowe