291529 Fri Jan 10 11:42:32 -0800 2003 21 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1586998 Zora, in her wonderful post "Shanks for the Memories," presents a delicious sounding recipe for marinated lamb shanks that had me salivating at 9:30 in the morning. At the end she suggests serving these savory bits of heaven with a good Australian Shiraz. That wine recommendation reminded me of something I'd read recently by Randall Graham, the much respected founder and winemaker at Bonny Doon Winery. I hate to provide a summary of something I read a couple months ago, but I believe he wrote that Australian Shirazes tended to be one dimensional fruity wines without much character. Now, truth be told, I've never purchased or drunk an expensive Aussie shiraz, but his characterization seems to me to be a pretty accurate description of the shirazes that I've drunk that are in my price range. Are there truly good Australian Shirazes? Are any of them affordable? Fri Jan 10 11:42:32 -0800 2003 0 e.d. 1 1587017 I worked an Austrailian top 100 wine tasting a couple of years ago, and had the benefit of trying most of the wines. I have to say that Aussie reds just don't do it for me. My palate just seems to reject them wholesale. There is a certain quality that I can't quite pinpoint. I'm sure there are zillion who wil disagree, but... Whites are hit and miss. I like many New Zealand sauvingon blancs. Fri Jan 10 12:52:51 -0800 2003 1586998 0 SLRossi 2 1587024 One word re: good Aussie wines - Grange. Fri Jan 10 13:22:25 -0800 2003 1587017 0 Hunter 3 1587052 Huh? It tastes like a farm? Fri Jan 10 14:49:30 -0800 2003 1587024 0 SLRossi 4 1587095 Lol. I meant the producer Grange. Makes wonderful wine. Fri Jan 10 16:10:15 -0800 2003 1587052 0 Hunter 5 1587097 Ahhhhhhh. You know, grassy, herbacious, earthy.... thought maybe you had a new one for me.. farmy. :-) Fri Jan 10 16:13:08 -0800 2003 1587095 0 SLRossi 5 1587191 Actually the producer is PENFOLDS. Grange is the brand name for its top Shiraz. Sat Jan 11 02:26:33 -0800 2003 1587095 0 Melanie Wong 1 1587021 I've had a few gorgeous Aussie Shirazes when I went down there last year - they were definitely more expensive than I usually spend on wine. I remember a Henschke reserve that I ended up bringing back and eating with a dinner at Chez Panisse. It was probably $70 or more a bottle but was a great great wine. In general, Henschke is a good brand if you can find it. Also, when I was in Sydney visiting a friend, I had an hour to kill in this nice neighborhood with a good wine shop. I ended up talking to the owner for awhile and revealing that I knew next to little about Australian wines and which ones were good. He took their stock list and marked it up to show me the really good ones (in his opinion of course, but he did have good wines as far as I can tell).. If I remember when I get home, I'll type in his recommendations. I just found the list after losing it for the last year and would love to share. Fri Jan 10 13:03:41 -0800 2003 1586998 0 Celeste 1 1587028 I think some of them are really good; big and long and fruity. I particularly like D'Arenberg; they have some at several price points. I've attached a link to an article on a 1999 Australian Shiraz comparison, that way you can at least see the wineries who make them. Link: http://www.winetitles.com.au/awol/wineshows/pre2002/shirazchallenge/99shirazchallenge.html Fri Jan 10 13:33:32 -0800 2003 1586998 0 asun 1 1587033 that doesnt make them any less delicious - there are also Aussie blends including cabernet which add some structure. Weve had some very warm and friendly shiraz wines over the years, so dont discount their deliciousness as a winter wine with this type of dish. Fri Jan 10 13:44:30 -0800 2003 1586998 0 jen kalb 2 1587089 I'm not saying they can't be OK. I've drunk a few in my time that were very pleasant. But when I think about it, few if any of them have been as good as an average French Beaujolais. Fri Jan 10 15:52:41 -0800 2003 1587033 0 e.d. 1 1587049 We enjoy Reynolds,Rosemount and Black Opal-all very affordable and tasty not really remarkable but enjoyable. Fri Jan 10 14:38:04 -0800 2003 1586998 0 sandymr 1 1587056 Frankland Estate Isolation Ridge Shiraz from Western Australia is quite a remarkable wine. Bottles, when you can find them, run $20 to $30. The wine is very variable from vintage to vintage, but if you can find a '96 or a '98 you're in for a treat. Now, having said that, I personally (and generally) prefer French syrahs to Australian shirazes. But there are some good Australians, including those that others have mentioned. Fri Jan 10 14:56:55 -0800 2003 1586998 0 Kirk 1 1587169 It was a 1999 Leasingham Bin 61 Clare Valley Shiraz. If you have tasted this wine, or the top of the line Leasingham Classic Clare, or a Peter Lehmann 1998 Barossa Shiraz you will no longer make the claim that Australian Shiraz lacks complexity or is "one dimensional." I paired the dish with a special Australian wine from my collection because it was made with Australian lamb, a bit literal of me I guess. It would have been just as well accompanied by a good, earthy Cotes du Rhone. I think a lighter-bodied Beaujolais would have been overwhelmed by the power and complexity of the meat and its sauce. The really good shirazes are no bargain, although not long ago I did get a few bottles of the most recent Peter Lehmann Shiraz release at Costco for $12.99, a real bargain, even if it isn't quite up to standard of the great 97-98-99 vintages. I've recently been discovering some of the great (non-Rioja) wines of Spain. Powerful, complex, bramble fruit, leather, earth and anise for $10 and under a bottle. Great stuff! Also, some wonderfully drinkable cabs and malbecs from Chile and Argentina, also around or less than $10. Fri Jan 10 21:48:51 -0800 2003 1586998 0 zora 2 1587199 Thanks for the information. I assumed from the excellence of your recipe and the considered care that you spent on the meat that you had a better shiraz than I had drunk and a good reason to serve it. I just gave up on Aussie shirazes a few years ago and then was pleased to read the Randall Graham quote which confirmed what I had felt about the wine (based on the cheap examples that I had drunk). I would never consider a Beaujolais with lamb shanks. Rather I meant that a Beaujolais is a much superior pleasant, fruity wine, if that is what one is looking for, to the inexpensive shirazes I have experience with. Usually, when I cook my much simpler lamb shank recipe for friends, I will pull out an aged California cab (or something similar). Why my palate prefers an aged wine with a stewed meat like lamb shanks is a question for which I have no answer. Anyway, I intended in no way to impugn neither your taste nor your recipe, both of which I am sure are superb. Sat Jan 11 08:31:22 -0800 2003 1587169 0 e.d. 3 1587244 I didn't feel impugned at all... You make an excellent point when you say that your instinct would have been to have an aged cab with the lamb...also an excellent choice. I assume that if you have gone to the trouble of keeping the wine for a few years, it is a very good wine. Very good wines, regardless of the grape, tend to have depth of flavor and complexity and are well balanced. Lower quality or mass-marketed wines, regardless of the grape, are often "one dimensional," which is just fine for some situations. Nothing wrong at all with having a burger or pasta with red sauce accompanied, by a mass-produced Rosemount shiraz or a Rancho Zabaco zin. But when you have gone to the trouble of creating a special dish, it makes sense to pair it with a wine that is equal to the meal. Sat Jan 11 18:42:29 -0800 2003 1587199 0 zora 3 1587261 e.d., i'm not a big fan of Oz Shiraz myself, generally preferring more restraint, elegance and structure and certainly less oak than the protypical style. That said, the ones I've enjoyed the most come from the cooler growing regions of Western Australia, Victoria or Clare Valley. This is somewhat outdated, but I've pasted below an excerpt from a study guide I prepared three years ago on Syrah and its expression in Australia. It might help you get a handle on the styles typical of the major Australian growing regions in order to choose a wine that might suit you. * * * * * Included are clipped quotes from Australian and British authors on the following topics. * Overview of Australian Shiraz character * Descriptions of regional styles of Shiraz For a concise description of techniques in the winery for making Shiraz, refer to pages 160 and 161 in The Vintner’s Art. SOURCE KEY BR: Bryce Rankine, Tasting and Enjoying Wine, A Guide to Wine Evaluation for Australia and New Zealand, 1990 GM: Giles MacDonogh, Syrah, Grenache and Mourvedre, 1992 HJ: Hugh Johnson and James Halliday, The Vintner’s Art, 1992 JH: James Halliday, More Vintage Halliday, 1990 JR: Jancis Robinson, Guide to Wine Grapes, 1996 RG: Rosemary George, Lateral Wine-Tasting, 1992 RN: Remington Norman, Rhone Renaissance, 1996 TS: Tom Stevenson, The New Sotheby’s Wine Encyclopedia, 1997 WA: Wines of Australia/Australian Wine Board website, www.wineaustralia.com.au AUSTRALIAN SHIRAZ OVERVIEW GM – “The history of Australian wine is closely bound up with Shiraz. Until twenty years ago the Shiraz or Hermitage grape was required to perform the roles of virtually every European black grape variety from the Gamay in Beaujolais, the Pinot Noir in Burgundy and the Cabernet Sauvignon in claret, to the Touriga Nacional in port. What was remarkable was that Shiraz rose to the challenge: it performed all the roles and achieved styles of wine unheard of within the narrow purlieus of the Rhone Valley.” JH – “The traditional Australian profile of shiraz was shaped in the Hunter and Barossa Valley, and almost never does one encounter pepper or spice in these regions. I have seen write-ups of wines that suggest the characters do occur, but I can only put this down to wishful thinking.” JR – “Today Australian Shiraz can vary from a brown, baked, dilute everyday red to the glorious, almost porty concentration of the likes of Australia’s most famous wine, Penfolds Grange. Like top quality Hermitage, this Syrah-dominated wine can taste oddly like Bordeaux after 20 years in bottle. Viticulturally Shiraz is identical with Syrah but the resulting wines are very different, with Australian versions tasting much sweeter and riper, more suggestive of the chocolate than the pepper and spice often associated with Syrah in the Rhone.” RG – “The best Australian Shiraz is virtually identical in taste with the best Syrah of the Rhone Valley. Shiraz grows in the warm Hunter Valley of New South Wales, as well as in the cooler regions of Victoria and South Australia. Penfolds Grange, previously called Grange Hermitage, is the supreme example of just how great Australian Shiraz can be, with rich complex flavours of spice and pepper, especially when it has some bottle age. Younger wines have the typical nose and taste of blackcurrant gums that are the benchmark of good Shiraz or Syrah, and sometimes an almost sweet, mint and eucalyptus taste that is characteristic of some New World Shiraz. They are always deep in colour, chunky, meaty, mouthfilling wines, with some tannin and rich, fruity impact and a long finish. Shiraz can be blended with Cabernet Sauvignon which makes for a little more elegance and more subtle blackcurrant fruit. Much however depends upon the producer, so that you can find Shiraz that is light and fruity, more like a young Beaujolais in style, or blended with Mataro, otherwise known as Mourvedre in France, when it tastes more like red table wine from the Douro Valley, which could be described as unfortified port.” NEW SOUTH WALES Hunter Valley GM: “In the old days the Shiraz lay around in big tuns for years; the grapes picked at a prodigious degree, it was touch and go whether they would be transformed into port or table wine. The size of these wines obviously created something of the famed Hunter style, with all that leathery fruit which every now and then turns into Stilton rinds or horse manure. The Australians generally refer to this as ‘sweaty saddles’… For some people the ‘sweaty saddle’ is nothing more than a mercaptan…More probable, it seems to me, is that the ‘sweaty saddle’ is a product of hot vintages in the Hunter combined with some natural results of the coal-rich terroir, or possibly it results from the need to use sulphur-based sprays to combat rot in wet years. The ‘sweaty saddle’ is not confined to Shiraz, and I have met with this character in both Cabernet and Pinot Noir made in the area.” HJ – “The Hunter Valley (with the warmest climate, much hotter than that of the Rhone) produces a wine which is often quite tough, tarry and tannic in its youth but which softens over 20 years into a velvety, gently earthy wine of sometimes remarkable elegance.” JH – “The Hunter produces wines that can be tannic and aggressive when young but which age with extreme grace into velvety wines with the patina of old, highly polished leather and a melange of earthy/sweet, leathery/soft and slightly vegetal flavours that – taken individually – would be regarded as unusual if not downright unacceptable, but which in combination produce a style of rare charm and quality…Hunter character of the right sort – a sweet, velvety taste and feel, with a faintly earthy backdrop of clean earth, not bitter or sour.” RN – “the traditional earthy, rich, heavily-extracted and leathery Shiraz, exemplified by Tyrell’s, Lindeman’s classic releases and McWilliams, which needs long ageing to come into its own, is fine in its own way – although hitherto little more than a niche market curiosity. The style has been adapted and refined, by such as Iain Riggs at Brokenwood, into something of international top quality. This has sparked a concomitant debate on the use of new and old wood, and how best to vinify to allow the fruit to express itself … While wines may develop some finesse, this is not a region known for delicacy – rather more for extract and power. The Hunter ‘earthiness’ is attributable to chemicals known as mercaptans, themselves mainly hydrogen sulphide derivatives, and can vary between a subtle, garlicky, leathery quality, and full-blown ‘sweaty saddles’. While many devotees like to see some of this traditional mercaptan character in aged Hunter Shiraz, it is thoroughly disliked by judges on the important Show circuit, where estates rely upon success for publicity. Even the slightest hint means instant rejection. Judges’ emphasis on purity, and their insistence on wines of almost clinical sterility, is felt by many to be slowly obliterating regional identities. If so, this is a pity, especially with wines destined for international markets, where such individuality is taken as a mark of character rather than as an analytical fault.” TS – “…it is hard to imagine that the Hunter Valley established its once unassailable reputation on a huge, beefy, red Shiraz that gave off a strong, gamey, sweat-and-leather odour and possessed an earthy, almost muddy taste that was ‘chewed’ rather than swallowed… This peculiar aroma, which gave rise to the infamous ‘sweaty saddles’ description, is supposed to derive from the Hunter Valley’s volcanic basalt soil, although in some areas, this Shiraz and basalt combination has yielded nothing but pure peppery-varietal Shiraz with not the slightest hint of ‘sweaty saddles’, and in the first edition of this book in 1988, I attributed this phenomenon to hot climate, bad viticultural practices, and sloppy winemaking. It has since been identified as a mercaptan fault, which was the result of too much sulphur being used to combat the effects of heat in the vineyard and winery.” WA – “… Shiraz makes the same transformation in bottle as Semillon, moving from an astringent, angular and spiky youth into a velvety, almost luminous maturity at 20 or even 30 years of age.” SOUTH AUSTRALIA GM – “South Australia is the home of the richer, riper styles of Shiraz: not for nothing does Australia’s most famous Shiraz – Grange – emanate from this state. Grange is in itself a tribute to South Australian fruit: formerly the product of the Magill Estate in the suburbs of Adelaide, the wine now combines fruit from the Clare Valley with that from the Barossa. Eden Valley and the Southern Vales have all achieved recognition for their full-flavoured Shiraz wines, and the hot McLaren Vale not only makes a useful blending Shiraz but is also the region best known for Grenache and Mataro grapes destined for use in quality tawny ports.” Barossa Valley JH – “The Barossa produces more voluptuous wines, richer and somehow thicker, reaching their greatest expression with Grange Hermitage, although its roots are admittedly spread though all of the old established areas of South Australia. But who has ever encountered pepper or spice in Grange? I certainly haven’t.” RN – “… a wave of fine younger winemakers has given the established berryish, briary, black fruit style a thorough shaking, re-defining quality and refocusing some larger firms on the Valley’s Shiraz potential, from which they had temporarily strayed in search of modish ‘cool-climate’ flavors…Two distinct styles of Barossa Shiraz have evolved. Traditional, old-fashioned, big-framed wines, rich in alcohol and fruit, come from fully if not overripe grapes; these were generally matured for two to three years in old wood, and kept for a similar period in bottle prior to release…The ‘modern style’ emphasises elegance, without compromising on complexity, with somewhat shorter vinification and maturation, with the use of new wood becoming prevalent. Many follow Penfold’s preference (for Grange) for American oak, which imparts a sweet, berryish flavour, especially if fermentation is finished in cask rather than in inert vats.” Clare Valley RN – “… new and long-established wineries have contributed to a growing reputation, with magnificent offerings from Tim Adams, Jim Barry and Wendouree – another region of considerable promise, with scope for expansion. Here the wines have great depth and intensity of pure fruit, and the natural structure for longevity.” WA – “There are those who think that Clare Shiraz is every bit as good as Cabernet Sauvignon, and over the years the two have frequently been blended, sometimes with the addition of a little Malbec. The wines are deep in colour and flavour, rounder and softer than the Cabernet Sauvignon, but with similar strength and depth.” Coonawarra GM – “Coonawarra’s climate means that Shiraz grapes tend not to ripen fully, giving the wine a particular minty aroma which sets it aside from other South Australian Shirazes. To some extent this is also true of Padthaway to the north…” RN – “Fierce arguments about where true Coonawarra begins and ends – the black soil versus Terra Rossa battle – have not dimmed enthusiasm, and a succession of fine wines has kept its profile high. Richness and elegance typify Coonawarra Shiraz, and make the best comparable to anything else Australia can produce… Coonawarra Shiraz is characterised by great intensity of fruit, marked elegance and round tannins, with none of the ‘big’, leathery, high-tannin qualities of the Hunter; nor the pepperiness of Macedon or the Victorian Pyrenees, or the obvious berryishness of the Barossa. If such generalisations have value, Coonawarra wines are eminently approachable young but have the ability to age gracefully. Common adjectives are raspberry, mulberry and blackberry, with notes of violets and tar. In the mid-1980s, some growers tried lightening up their wines, but most have reverted to the original style.” WA – “To all intents and purposes, Shiraz was the only wine grape grown in Coonawarra between 1900 and 1950; there were a few vines of Cabernet Sauvignon and a little Grenache. The grape that in effect created Coonawarra's reputation seemed to be taking a slow ride to obscurity in the face of the success of Cabernet Sauvignon until Wynns Coonawarra Estate turned the tide. The advent of the deluxe Michael Hermitage (Shiraz) alongside John Riddoch (Cabernet Sauvignon) has simply served to underline the inherent quality of the wine.” McLaren Vale RN – “… much of the fruit is bought by outside winemakers, who use its firm, silky qualities as an useful addition to blends, and relatively little of real class is bottled at the source.” WA – “It produces a densely coloured, richly flavoured wine which quickly develops a velvety texture.” VICTORIA GM – “Stylistically, Victoria produces the most interesting variety of Shiraz wines of any state in Australia. A relatively cool climate in all but the Murray River and Rutherglen areas of Victoria has allowed for the development of the ‘pepper-spice’ character of Shiraz which is so beloved of Australia wine writers.” HJ – “A third style of Shiraz is the spicy, peppery, cherry-like wine of southern Victoria, tasting for all the world like an elegant vintage of the northern Rhone. Further north in Victoria, near Great Western, the Mount Langi Ghiran vineyards achieve the weight and flesh of a great Hermitage or even a top Chateauneuf-du-Pape.” JH – “Knight’s Granite Hills was the first to gain national attention, its shiraz showing voluminous spice and pepper year after year. Mount Langhi Ghiran and Craiglee are other notable producers of the style, with the character appearing consistently. Other vineyards scattered through the cooler regions of south-east Australia would make wines with abundant pepper-spice one year, and none at all the next. Bowen Estate and Wynns Coonawarra are prime examples.” RN: “…considerable progress has been made across the state – especially in the Pyrenees, at Heathcote and in the Yarra Valley – where newly-established wineries combined with thoughtful winemaking have produced some spectacular results. However an over-zealous quest for a cool, peppery Shiraz, wrongly seen as being typically Rhone, has resulted in many an awkward, hollow wine, lacking in flesh and balance. Hopefully, this exaggerated style is on the way out. At Great Western, a tradition of quality Shiraz continues, with excellent wines being made from low-yielding, dry-farmed old vines.” Bendigo TS – “Primarily known for its menthol-eucalyptus-tasting red wines, the red-clay, quartz, and ironstone soil is suited to producing fine Shiraz…” Central Victoria GM – “Central Victoria is the birthplace of the modern ‘pepper-spice’ school of Shiraz beloved of those writers and wine-makers who wanted to castigate the old style of Shiraz-making as represented by the Hunter Valley… The idea of cool-country, underripe grapes created a fashion for Shiraz-makers which may have saved many estates from being pulled up in favour of Cabernet and Merlot.” Great Western RN – “… a long growing season and lowish yields; the compensation is a striking intensity of flavour and wines with excellent structure and aging potential.” Macedon RN – “a ‘lifted pepper’ mode, to emulate the great wines of the Northern Rhone…The ‘peppery’ effect, however, is often achieved at the expense of mid-palate concentration, and many of the wines (even from theoretically fine vintages, such as 1990) are hollow with, more often than not, an unattractive green streak. Critics suggest that these qualities come from an over-watering, watering at the wrong time in the growing cycle and poor canopy management. Certainly, many wines are unbalanced and notably lack power and extract. Either the fashion will wither, or else growers will refine it into a more complete style. At present, novelty seems to have overtaken sound judgement.” North-Eastern Victoria RN: “This area covers Rutherglen and Corowa on the NSW border and the vineyards around the Ovens and King rivers…The wines are big, firmly-structured and meaty, with a somewhat burly, uncompromising feel about them; one, Bailey’s Bundarra Shiraz, attracted the description ‘a three-course meal and a good cigar’. They merit bottle-ageing, and generally benefit from the experience, softening out somewhat and adding finesse.” Yarra Valley WA – “Sparingly produced, but after a period of decline, once again on the increase. Appropriate site selection is essential, with warm, north-facing slopes highly desirable, and in that circumstance capable of producing intensely coloured and flavoured wines, redolent with black cherry, spice and pepper, but with those fine, silky Yarra Valley tannins.” WESTERN AUSTRALIA GM – “There remain a few well-known Shiraz wines from Western Australia which deserve mention here, however – not least as a result of their unusually wide distribution. The 1987 Plantagenet wine from the Lower Great Southern Area seems to take the pies-and-peas style to extremes, reminding me of nothing more than fresh pork sausages. The 1988 was much better in a chocolate-and-raisin style. In the Margaret River, Cape Mentelle makes a highly acclaimed Shiraz; the 1987 is a nicely structured wine with a pronounced spice and violet character, while the 1989 is more tarry and leathery.” RN - “Western Australia’s terroirs breeds a comparable diversity of wine styles. If there is a common factor, it is finesse, but often achieved at the expense of substance. Many wines tasted lacked centre and were, frankly, one-dimensional – reflecting incomplete fruit ripeness, rather than of flawed vinification.” Great Southern Area WA – “The renaissance in the fortunes of Shiraz has served to intensify the pressure on the limited, but exceptionally high quality, quantities of Shiraz produced in the region. It exhibits a compelling combination of liquorice, spice, pepper, black cherry and plum; happily, almost all makers avoid the temptation of smothering it in American oak, allowing the spectacular fruit quality free reign [sic] to express itself.” Margaret River TS – “This is Australia’s premier region for winelovers who seek class and finesse, rather than weight and glory. Situated south of Perth, this district attracted much attention in 1978 when it established Australia’s first Appellation of Origin system. Like similar schemes, it was unsuccessful…The greatness of Margaret River wines cannot be disputed. This is because the quality of fruit is better than elsewhere in Australia. The best varieties are Cabernet sauvignon, Chardonnay, Pinot noir, and Shiraz.” Sun Jan 12 02:22:25 -0800 2003 1587199 0 Melanie Wong 4 1587337 Thanks for posting this fantastic resource! I've printed it out for further study and future reference. Mon Jan 13 10:29:25 -0800 2003 1587261 0 zora 5 1587372 Excuse me, Melanie, but if I am not mistaken you denied being an "expert" in response to one of my laudatory posts a few weeks ago. It appears you may be too modest! In any event, thank you for the excellent study guide and resource. Mon Jan 13 14:29:30 -0800 2003 1587337 0 Kirk 6 1587492 Thanks Melanie. Makes me want to try Aussie Shirazes again--but a good one this time. Great post (as usual)! Tue Jan 14 09:01:38 -0800 2003 1587372 0 e.d. 4 1588113 McLaren Vale RN – “… much of the fruit is bought by outside winemakers, who use its firm, silky qualities as an useful addition to blends, and relatively little of real class is bottled at the source.” Man, that seems to be shortchanging McLaren Vale quite a bit!! What about D'Arenberg, Kay Brothers, Scarpantoni, and many others that put out a solid product? I must confess to a current infatuation with Aussie Shiraz myself, tho -- I realize that their appeal is based upon somewhat unsubtle, obvious qualities, but I can't help it! They may not age into very profound wines, but damn it, right now they're just so tasty! Besides the usual Robert Parker-raved suspects (Clarendon Hills, Elderton, Greenock Creek, Noon, Torbreck), most of which cost a pretty penny these days, I would put in a plug for the wines of St. Hallett, a Barossa Valley winery whose product I adore (try their Old Block Shiraz, or their lower-priced "Faith" Shiraz). One of the best values I've seen is the Paringa Shiraz 2000 vintage (the 2001, while OK, pales in comparison, which is curious, since the 2000 vintage was generally considered to be a lesser year around Australia). About $8-10, if you can still find the 2000 bottling lurking around somewhere. Fri Jan 17 23:43:18 -0800 2003 1587261 0 Mark Lee 1 1587218 I am quite fond of Australian Shirazes. I believe that the US is one of the last places outside of Australia where Australian wine is priced very well compared to its competitors of similar quality. It's also funny to hear the too fruity comment--the complaints that I have had from friends about some Australian shirazes is that they are too "spicy". I'm not sure of your price range, but here are some reccomendations and an approxiamate price in USD. I am not sure about the availability of the last two. There are some really nice Australian shirazes out there, I hope that you will find one that suites your palette. Trying a Shiraz blend may be an option if you find the taste a bit harsh. Here they are: Wolf Blass Shiraz 1998 Eden Valley Platinum Label, $35 Penfolds 1999 South Australia Kalimna Bin 28 $25 Peter Lehmann 1999 "The Barossa" $15 May be harder to find: Tahbilk 1997 "1933 Vines" Reserve Shiraz $25 Penfolds 1996 Grange (amazing but outrateously expensive) Sat Jan 11 10:01:37 -0800 2003 1586998 0 mikeb