291123 Fri Dec 06 12:09:26 -0800 2002 38 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1582740 I can’t see spending 30 bucks, (and up), for a bottle of OK French Champagne. Does any one have a good alternative? I’m looking to spend between 10 and 15 dollars. Thanks Zappa, In Southern CT Fri Dec 06 12:09:26 -0800 2002 0 Zappa 1 1582743 How about Gloria Ferrer or Roederer Estate. Chandon and Schramsburg are ok too. (forgive any egregious spelling errors) These are probably closer to $20. At the $10 price point you won't be happy. Fri Dec 06 12:21:10 -0800 2002 1582740 0 SLRossi 2 1582764 Very enthusiastic second to the recommendation of Roederer Estate. It's terrific, and I've seen it discounted at $15.00. As to Spanish bubblies, you might want to think about it. They're very good value--most under $10, and, let's face it, tastes very. I'm not so sure, as one other respondent was, that you won't be happy with one under $10. On the other hand, if you want something truly comparable to Champagne, go for the Roederer. Fri Dec 06 13:30:13 -0800 2002 1582743 0 Mike M 1 1582744 Consider Spanish cava. Fri Dec 06 12:23:45 -0800 2002 1582740 0 ironmom 1 1582746 I was at a brunch recently and the host served a sparking wine from Italy called "Il Proseco" It isn't bone dry or cloyingly sweet - but has a wonderful flavor. I was shocked when I read the label ...it's $9 and available at Trader Joes Fri Dec 06 12:24:53 -0800 2002 1582740 0 skatechef 2 1582793 Isn't proseco the style, not the brand? Fri Dec 06 15:12:45 -0800 2002 1582746 0 SLRossi 1 1582747 Check out Trader Joe's if you have one nearby. They have very good champagne at great prices. The Villa Napa for around $10 is my favorite. Also sell Gloria Ferrar which is very good. Fri Dec 06 12:27:40 -0800 2002 1582740 0 Gina 1 1582751 I don't think there is a lot of American sparkling wines in that category that are drinkable. The dosage is too high or the wine itself is overpriced. If you want something in the $10 range look to Spanish cava or Italian Proseco. Neither is particularly dry, but if you don't mind a bit of sweetness they will work well. There are even some Russian sparkling wines that are very cheap and make good mixers. American sparklers in the $25-50 range are IMHO, a huge rip-off. You might want to try Du Vin in West Hollywood. They have a number of festive drinks in your price range. They have a wonderful inexpensive moscato that makes a lovely apertif. Finally, I can't help but point out that there is no domestic champagne. Champagne is produced in France and the American producers who use the word should be spanked. There is nothing wrong with the correct term -- sparkling wine. We have our own thriving food culture and we need to stop pretending to make brie, champagne, and all the rest. Fri Dec 06 12:41:30 -0800 2002 1582740 0 JudiAU 2 1582921 >> ... there is no domestic champagne. That's a losing battle. In language, usage is everything, and on this issue the American public has spoken. In American English, any sparkling wine is champagne if it wants to be. Sat Dec 07 20:56:51 -0800 2002 1582751 0 Bruce H. 3 1583022 In my experience, people who know and love fine wine use the correct term. I am no more likely to buy California "Bordeaux" than California "Champagne." Following the lead of the American public (statistically a fat, poorly educated person, who doesn't vote or hold a passport and seen most often in their native habitat- McDonalds) doesn't really interest me. Mon Dec 09 12:57:46 -0800 2002 1582921 0 JudiAU 1 1582753 First of all, you can't call it Champagne if it comes from outside of Champagne (France). Might seem trivial but not to the French. The correct term is Sparkling Wine. That being said, you have gotten many great suggestions so far. For $10-15, Prosecco is very good Italian sparkling as is Spanish Cava (Frixinet is actually pretty good and cheap). If you are looking for something sweeter you might try to find something called Brachetto d'Acqui, a delicious red sparkling Italian wine with a nose of fresh strawberries, yum! The more expensive Moscato d'Asti's are also marvelous and quite sweet too. If you are willing to spend a little more the Schramsberg is a good suggestion but I prefer Iron Horse (California), like the Russian Cuvee, excellent but in the $25-30 range. Fri Dec 06 12:46:09 -0800 2002 1582740 0 David De Silva 2 1582776 You can't call it champagne if it does not come from Champagne AND your country signed a treaty with the French saying you won't call it champagne. The US never signed the treaty. As for $10-15, doesn't Chateau St. Michelle from Oregon sell in this range? I recall it being decent but that was years ago and I have a tendency not to remember days when champagne is involved. Fri Dec 06 14:21:54 -0800 2002 1582753 0 muD 3 1582794 Chateau St. Michelle is in Washington. I have friends that live a mile or two away and swear by their sparkling wine. I can't say I've had recently though. Fri Dec 06 15:15:39 -0800 2002 1582776 0 SLRossi 4 1582799 I have had the Chateau Ste. Michelle recently -- at less than $10 it as a good wine for the price point. Also good, from Washington State, at $13 - 15, is Pacific Echo. Fri Dec 06 15:21:16 -0800 2002 1582794 0 Gil Bauer 5 1582814 Pacific Echo is from Anderson Valley, Mendocino County, California. Fri Dec 06 16:42:56 -0800 2002 1582799 0 Melanie Wong 6 1582820 Oops... Fri Dec 06 17:05:09 -0800 2002 1582814 0 Gil Bauer 7 1582925 Are you related to Gary "oops" Soup? (g) Should also mention that various Cremant sparking wines from France can be good and inexpensive. From Alsace, Meyer-Fonne is nice and imported by Estate Wines. Some Cremant de Bourgogne can be quite good too. I've linked below an old tasting note on J. Laurens Cremant de Limoux. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/286809#1539419 Sat Dec 07 21:18:58 -0800 2002 1582820 0 Melanie Wong 8 1582972 > Should also mention that various Cremant sparking > wines from France can be good and inexpensive. From > Alsace, Meyer-Fonne is nice and imported by Estate > Wines. Some Cremant de Bourgogne can be quite good > too. I've linked below an old tasting note on > J. Laurens Cremant de Limoux. On Friday Rochelle and I had a bottle of Cremant de Limoux, L'Exception D'Aimery, that was fairly good. We just picked it up at Trader Joe's (San Mateo) for $5.99. Not the best stuff I've ever drunk, but for six bucks it was a pretty good bang for the buck. Sun Dec 08 19:34:19 -0800 2002 1582925 0 Michael Alderete 9 1582985 Thanks, Michael! I saw that the other day at TJ's and wondered about it. Can you tell me more about it? Dry? Fruity? Big or fine bubbles? Mon Dec 09 01:13:22 -0800 2002 1582972 0 Ruth Lafler 10 1583024 My palette memory is quite poor, and it was the group's third bottle (we had friends over), so it may be that neither Rochelle or I can describe it very well. But I do remember very fine bubbles, and *think* I recall a slightly sweet fruitiness. Not much to go on, sorry! Maybe Rochelle will chime in... Mon Dec 09 13:05:22 -0800 2002 1582985 0 Michael Alderete 11 1583031 Oh, I don't know that my palette memory is that good, I just think I'm willing to commit, not caring too much if I'm wrong. I remember small but not extremely small bubbles. I agree with the slightly sweet & fruitiness - which I am normally not a fan of but it was just on this side of acceptable. It also had a refined nature to it that you don't normally get at that price point. I also remember thinking it made the Domaine Laurier seem a bit brash or as we say in our house "Well, that's a step down, but of course, I'll drink it anyway." Mon Dec 09 13:39:36 -0800 2002 1583024 0 Rochelle McCune 5 1582849 I have to chime in on the Chateau Ste. Michelle. Very good for the price. I got turned on to it when I lived in Seattle. I just picked up a case last week for $9.69 a bottle minus 10% case price. Fri Dec 06 22:25:04 -0800 2002 1582799 0 the rogue 4 1582875 Speaking as a non-oenophile, (I'm a cheap date), Chateau St. Michelle is my choice for a $10 bottle. I don't have any choices for $20 and $30 bottles as I've never spent that much. :-) Sat Dec 07 11:07:56 -0800 2002 1582794 0 Sharuf 1 1582766 I like Gruet from New Mexico. The Blanc de Noir in particilar. Think they're usually about $12. Fri Dec 06 13:41:46 -0800 2002 1582740 0 Middydd 1 1582770 How about some good ol' Korbel Naturale? Look for the green label, not the white-labeled brut. I'd put it up against White Star anyday. Fri Dec 06 14:04:21 -0800 2002 1582740 0 flavrmeistr 1 1582778 As noted below, skip the domestics and go directly to the Spanish cavas. You can buy two bottles for the price of one U.S. bubbly, and some of them (Freixenet, for example) rival French champagnes. Fri Dec 06 14:31:43 -0800 2002 1582740 0 Kirk 2 1582924 Personally, I dislike most Spanish Cava due to dirty off-scents and rubbery flavors/aromas. The characteristic "pencil eraser" (yes, that's an official organoleptic term commonly used to describe the aroma of cava) is attributed by some to the strains of yeast used by Cava producers and by other to the traditional grape variety trilogy of Macabeo/Parrellada/Xarello. Some farsighted producers are experimenting with French yeast strains, extended aging on the lees to increase complexity, and also using Chardonnay in the blend to improve acid balance and flavor. Two modern producers that I've tried recently and can recommend are Jaume Serra "Cristalino" Cava for $5-$6 and Marques Gelida (NV about $7 and 97 or 98 Brut about $9). Gelida is imported by Jorge Ordonez and available in major markets (the Calif. distributor is Associated). Image: http://www.elcep.com/imag/fotoMG01.gif Sat Dec 07 21:11:13 -0800 2002 1582778 0 Melanie Wong 1 1582790 Martini & Rossi Asti is a good, low price choice. It is not too sweet, not too dry. I think it runs about $13. Fri Dec 06 15:08:24 -0800 2002 1582740 0 M. Allen 1 1582812 There are American sparkling wines in the $10-15 range that are just ok but there are a some really good champagnes in the $20 to $30 range. I think you should go to a liquor store in your area that specializes in champagne. If you tell them what you liked and didn't like about previous champagnes you have had (or tell us), you should be able to get a recommendation for your tastes. Your statement about "OK" $30 champagnes indicates that you have had at least one that you did not think was worth the money. What was it? What turned you off? What champagnes have you liked? Knowing something about your preferences would be extremely helpful - do you like dry? sweet? a classic brut or something that has more pinot (like a Mercier) or that has mostly/all chardonnay (like a Ruinart or Pommery). My local champagne store, D&M Liquors (www.dandm.com), has some very good non-vintage champagnes for under $30 - Ayala Brut ($22), Billecart-Salmon Brut Reserve ($28), Bollinger Brut ($30), Duetz Brut Classic ($24), Gosset Brut ($28), Duval-Levoy Brut ($19), several Laurent Perriers and Moet & Chandons. To my taste, the Duval-Levoy blend is too heavy on pinot noir while Laurent Perrier and Moet & Chandon are among my least favorite of the champagne houses - they're just boring for the price. On the other hand, I think its pretty much impossible to go wrong with a Billecart-Salmon or a Bollinger. And I think Duetz is a bargain. FYI - at one of my champagne tasting parties (I have at least one blind tasting a year), the non-vintage Bollinger beat out a number of more expense champagnes as the "best". My recommendation is buy a few bottles, invite a few friends over and discover what you like. That's how I started - I invited over friends & told them to bring a $20-$30 bottle of bubbly. I put them in paper bags. We tasted them, voted on favorites and then unveiled them. All it costs me is $30 for my bottle and $20-$30 in snacks to keep us from getting smashed. Its a very fun party, my friends love it and I learn something every year. And its great preparation work for NYE, when its a marvelous feeling to be able to say "I've recently discovered this lovely champagne..." and know that its going to be really good. Fri Dec 06 16:33:44 -0800 2002 1582740 0 Rochelle McCune 1 1582842 chandon brut fresco from argentina is great. i found it at trader joe's for about $15. and add my voice to the spanish cavas. Fri Dec 06 21:10:16 -0800 2002 1582740 0 lynn 1 1582894 Segura Viudas Aria from Spain is the best bang for the buch I have had period. Really excellent bubbly for about $9.00. Sat Dec 07 14:08:22 -0800 2002 1582740 0 StriperGuy 1 1582920 This won't help you in Connecticut, but anyone in the San Francisco Bay Area who's looking for a good deal in REAL Champagne can find it at Vin, Vino Wine in Palo Alto through the end of the month as long as supplies last. NV Agrapart Champagne Brut Blanc De Blancs Grand Cru is 20% off for 6 or more bottles making it only $19 and change per bottle. This is insane value for the quality. We're talking GRAND CRU all Chardonnay here from a grower-producer in a sweet spot of Cotes des Blancs. Magnums and splits are 15% off. The splits for $11+ are terrific to have a little bubbly as an aperitif for two. Link: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/champagne/agrapart.html Image: http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/champagne/images/millesimes.jpg Sat Dec 07 20:53:19 -0800 2002 1582740 0 Melanie Wong 2 1582971 > Magnums and splits are 15% off. The splits for > $11+ are terrific to have a little bubbly as an > aperitif for two. I forget the exact quotation, but it goes something like this: A magnum is the perfect amount of champagne for a tete-a-tete with my wife, if she is not drinking. Splits are for sissies, buy a whole bottle. ;-) This sounds like a great deal; Rochelle and I developed a saying when tasting champagne in France, "any Grand Cru will do." I'll be buying some of this! Sun Dec 08 19:25:36 -0800 2002 1582920 0 Michael Alderete 3 1582987 Michael! At my house we call splits "road cokes". The mags of Agrapart are marked down to $47.60. This is indeed the best size for Champagne, be sure to let a couple rest for a few years (standing up, remember). But even young, I think you get more toasty, yeasty flavor development in the big bottles. I've had Agrapart a couple times from magnum and it's lovely. Love your Grand Cru motto. Of the GCs, I probably drink more of Paul Bara (imported by Kermit Lynch) than any because its so well priced, awesome weight and power from the Bouzy Pinot Noir. Vin Vino Wine has many other bubblies on sale this month. I bought the sampler 6-pack: NV Agrapart Avize Grand Cru, Deutz Brut Classic, Louis Roederer Brut Premier, Diebolt-Vallois Prestige Brut, Jean Milan Oger Grand Cru, and 96 Paul Bara Bouzy Grand Cru. $165/6 bottles = $27.50/bottle. A screaming deal - maybe I should get another one. (g) Also bought the three Pierre Peters: NV Le Mesnil-Cuvee de Reserve, 96 Le Mesnil-Millesime, and 96 Le Mesnil-Cuvee Speciale which were 15% off. The Grand Marques are all on offer too. Wish I had more money to stock up. Next Friday and Saturday the tasting bar at VVW is pouring eight vintage champagnes, including the 1990 Salon Le Mesnil. I'd make a date with you, Michael, for Saturday, except that I'm flying into SFO late Friday night and don't know whether I'll feel up to it or not. Let's stay in touch about this. P.S. Just got a note from your lovely wife, Rochelle McCune, that she's just noticed you're playing over here. (g) Mon Dec 09 01:30:10 -0800 2002 1582971 0 Melanie Wong 4 1583029 > Next Friday and Saturday the tasting bar at VVW is > pouring eight vintage champagnes, including the 1990 > Salon Le Mesnil. I'd make a date with you, Michael, > for Saturday, except that I'm flying into SFO late > Friday night and don't know whether I'll feel up to > it or not. Let's stay in touch about this. Let's *definitely* stay in touch about this! Rochelle and I have been kicking ourselves since we got back for not buying a bottle of Salon while we were there. I think we'll want to take this opportunity to give it a try (not that our budget will allow more than a bottle every couple years!). Actually, Salon inspired one of our photo series from France, of the field stones which mark the plots of land where particular champagne houses grow their grapes. We were driving along, and Rochelle yelled that we needed to stop. She took a photo of the below marker, and then we took more than a dozen others in the next couple days. Link: http://www.michaelandrochellessite.com/photos/chicago/manage.html?TopicID=fr02-markers Image: http://www.michaelandrochellessite.com/photos/chicago/fr02-markers/img_0691.jpg Mon Dec 09 13:19:11 -0800 2002 1582987 0 Michael Alderete 5 1583115 Love the Salon marker! Thanks for sharing. Could you please check your link for the other pix? I couldn't find the rest of them on your site. Will post a note on the SF board if I'm headed to the Champagne tasting. You should definitely go in any case. Tue Dec 10 00:11:43 -0800 2002 1583029 0 Melanie Wong 6 1583216 Fixed. I posted the wrong link, using an internal-only URL. That URL is now dead, and redirects to the right place, or you can use the right URL below. Link: http://www.michaelandrochellessite.com/photos/chicago/viewer.html?TopicID=fr02-markers Tue Dec 10 14:50:31 -0800 2002 1583115 0 Michael Alderete 1 1582974 At the price point you're chasing, I like the Gloria Ferrar, as some others have recommended. Usually $13 at Trader Joe's, and they almost always have it (dicey right before NYE, though). For a few bucks more, I like the Domain Carneros, the domestic version of Taittinger. Usually about $18, and also fairly widely available. While there are a couple cavas or proseccos that are OK, most of the stuff I've tasted is swill. Same for the Ste. Michelle. IMHO. As pointed out elsewhere, tastes vary. One last recommendation, Rochelle and I bought a couple cases of Domain Laurier, a California sparkling wine. It's better as your second (or third ;-) bottle, or mixed with orange or grapefruit juice. And when we've put it into a blind taste test with Veuve Clicquot and the Domain Carneros, it lost big time. But at $1.99 a bottle (no typo), everyone tasting changed their mind. It's still not as good as the usual suspects, but for the price, it's spectacular. And at that price, any night can be a "champagne night." Sun Dec 08 19:47:59 -0800 2002 1582740 0 Michael Alderete 2 1584721 Have you tried Gruet sparkling wines from New Mexico? It is a house owned by French who had a respected Champagne property. They decided that the warm days and cool nights of New Mexico were perfect for making methode champegnois. Great value at $12 a bottle. Their blanc de noirs is my favorite. Tue Dec 24 13:20:44 -0800 2002 1582974 0 vlibin