289220 Fri May 10 11:55:05 -0700 2002 54 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1564797 A few weeks ago Michael & I were at the Rosenblum Winery Open House (Alameda, CA). Rosenblum hosts an open house once a year. You get to taste a huge selection of their wines. Its pretty fun although every year it seems to get even more crowded. Anyway, this year they were offering tastes of their brandy, but because of liquor laws, they couldn’t offer tastes in the winery, we had to go around the corner to St. George’s Spirits. When we popped into St. George’s, we discovered that they were offering tastes of a number of spirits. What could we do but we dive in and taste them all? The standout was the best vodka I have ever tasted in my life. I gave up cheap booze years ago. At home, I stock Kettle One for mixed drinks and also use it for infusions. But that day I tasted heaven in a glass. It’s a brand new company, the day of the tasting about three weeks ago, they had only been in selling for a two weeks. Hangar One Vodka. I’ve linked their website below. We tasted all their flavors - plain, Mandarin Blossom, Buddha’s Hand Citron and Kaffir Lime. The Mandarin Blossom was the first flavored one we tasted. It had a very intense smell, like tangerines and flowers. I thought it would be perfumey tasting, but it wasn’t. It was just smooth orangey goodness. The other two flavors, Buddha’s Hand Citron and the Kaffir Lime were also excellent, fragrant and tasty. The plain was…I don’t have the vocabulary to explain this well but I’m going to try….you know how you want a vodka to be smooth so it doesn’t overpower your mixer? This vodka was smooth but had a distinct flavor of its own that I knew would punch up a mixer, not hide in it. It was almost as if there was a tiny, tiny hint of vermouth like flavor in it because I totally pictured having it straight (martini-style). Budgetary concerns limited us to one bottle each so I got the Mandarin Blossom and Michael got the Buddha’s Hand Citron. I really hope these guys do well ‘cause I feel like they are our “find” of the year so far (and it’s was only April, who knows what May-December will bring)!! Link: http://www.hangarone.com Fri May 10 11:55:05 -0700 2002 0 Rochelle McCune 1 1564809 Wow Rochelle, how funny you should mention these, because I just tasted them last weekend, and oh my goodness these vodkas will revolutionize the industry. Hangar One is a joint venture between St. George and Germain-Robin (sp?). My neighbor is a Sales Rep with Germain-Robin, and she treated me to a new product tasting. These vodkas are hand made in tiny batches with the finest ingredients available, the result is mind blowing. She only had the Kaffir Lime and Buddha's Hand Citron on hand. These were the smoothest, least volatile spirits I have ever tasted, so pure and aromatic they can easily be consumed alone on the rocks. My friend is already struggling with production and allocation numbers, in fact initial response from buyers has been 100% over projected numbers. Germain-Robin is also doing joint venture small batch whiskeys under a different label, the name of which escapes me. I am not a whiskey girl, but these were so smooth, so aromatic, so drinkable that I could change my ways. Fri May 10 13:43:37 -0700 2002 1564797 0 Jennie Sheeks 2 1564811 Wow, you guys really sold me. I just called the company - the woman was so helpful and friendly - but unfortunately no local distributors around here. And they can't ship to MA. Hmmm....have to think about this. ;) Fri May 10 14:24:06 -0700 2002 1564809 0 Rubee 3 1564815 You just have to put on your list of "Reasons for a Bay Area Vacation". Do you have any friends in the Bay Area? I don't think its illegal to mail/ship booze as a present. Or is it? Fri May 10 14:51:20 -0700 2002 1564811 0 Rochelle McCune 4 1564818 I've been looking for a place that would package and ship limited-production bourbon to friends for me, as gifts. If anyone knows of a place that does this, I'd be grateful to hear of it. Unfortunately, I think that a practice of this type probably would break several state and federal laws regulating liquor wholesale distribution and retail sale. Fri May 10 15:10:18 -0700 2002 1564815 0 Bill 5 1564826 For rare/fancy booze, I've had great luck at D&M. They have a premium and super-premium buyers club for single malts (i think you get a bottle every month, or every other month) of some very rare bottling. They have armengiac and champange clubs as well. They carry really good bourbon, and they ship, but I don't think they have a bourbon club. www.dandm.com Back to the point though, where can I buy this vodka locally? Fri May 10 15:52:41 -0700 2002 1564818 0 Dan 6 1564829 I bought it at St. George's Spirits in Alameda. Check out their website www.hangarone.com Since you mention D&M, I assume you are in SF. This was on their site "We also recommend Friendly Spirits of San Francisco: www.friendlyspirits.com or call 415 864-2262" Fri May 10 16:32:38 -0700 2002 1564826 0 Rochelle McCune 6 1564850 Here's the website for Caddell & Williams: http://www.caddellwilliams.com/ Hope that helps ~ Fri May 10 21:34:19 -0700 2002 1564826 0 Jacqueline 4 1564830 I was told that NY has a couple of locations where it's available. But I like the idea of having to visit the Bay Area instead. :) Fri May 10 16:39:41 -0700 2002 1564815 0 Rubee 2 1564823 >Germain-Robin is also doing joint venture small batch whiskeys under a >different label, the name of which >escapes me. I am not a whiskey girl, but >these were so smooth, so aromatic, so drinkable that I could change my ways. If you remember the name of the whiskey venture, can you either post it or e-mail it to me? Whiskey and bourbon *are* my thing and I'm always looking to try new products. Thanks. Fri May 10 15:31:38 -0700 2002 1564809 0 Gayla 1 1564827 My husband is a BIG Gray Goose vodka fan. He says it's the best vodka he's ever had. Have you had it? How does it compare to Hanger One? Fri May 10 16:04:30 -0700 2002 1564797 0 Wendy Lai 2 1564828 I've tried Grey Goose and liked it. Grey Goose, Kettle One and other high end vodkas are very good. I've had them all. And in the past I would have entered into a dialog regarding the various merits of each of them. But who cares? Not me. Hangar One Vodka beat them all hands down in my first sip. Its in a class of its own - its made in small batches with the highest quality ingredients. Even though I can't explain it any more than my first post, I was stunned. Here's an example, Hangar One uses real fruit to do their flavored vodkas. All the mass-produced vodkas use "flavorings" that are less expensive and easy to add. There is a huge difference in taste, that's why homemade (or barmade) infusions are so popular. Fri May 10 16:27:15 -0700 2002 1564827 0 Rochelle McCune 2 1564849 Grey Goose is great. What is different about Hangar One is what everyone is looking for: Smooth No volatile alcohol - in either the taste (mouthfeel) or aftertaste. They use wheat grain - not corn or maize as the base vodka. Then they redistill with neutral wine spirits... which are way more expensive than grain spirits. They use brewers yeast for fermentation (which is not as efficient as distiller's yeast but give a much better "mouthfeel" - IE: smoothness) Put Hangar One side by side with Grey Goose and see for yourself. The perfect vodka is the one without the volatile alcohol harshness... ~ Good spirits ~ to you ":-) Jacqueline Here are the websites for reference: www.hangarone.com www.cadellwilliams.com Fri May 10 21:30:35 -0700 2002 1564827 0 Jacqueline 3 1564851 Sorry, typo: http://www.caddellwilliams.com/ ":-) Fri May 10 21:36:07 -0700 2002 1564849 0 Jacqueline 3 1564853 Doh! That's a lot better than my explanation. Guess that's why you're a professional! Fri May 10 22:05:07 -0700 2002 1564849 0 Rochelle McCune 3 1564862 My understanding is that vodka can be made from any grain or vegetal materail (potatoes, beets, etc) and that the process creates a product that is virtually tasteless unless it has flavor added. What my understanding cannot take in is paying Scotch prices for flavorless alcohol. Now a good scotch...But that's another thread. Sat May 11 09:15:55 -0700 2002 1564849 0 saucyknave 4 1564869 You should read the book "The Book of Gins and Vodkas" by Bob Emmons 2000 it is a great source of info on the clear liquors and why they are what they are. How they are made. Why one is good and another bad. Emmons also did the Book of Tequila 1997. Sat May 11 11:33:05 -0700 2002 1564862 0 the rogue 1 1564857 Somethin' about a booze that you have to add flavor to in order to taste it. The ideal vodka is one that is, basically, one that is perfectly flavorless. But where's the fun in that? Which is why the infusions have grown so popular. Me, I'll take a nice, strongly flavored gin, shaken and up or on ice. Or, a basic ASDM (American Standard Dry Martini: gin shaken with the slightest touch of vermouth, and an olive.) BTW, I've tasted almost all of the high-end, fancy-bottled Gins, and still prefer either Extra Dry Tanqueray or Bombay Saffire. Sat May 11 00:25:08 -0700 2002 1564797 0 Tom M. 2 1564859 You asked - "The ideal vodka is one that is, basically, one that is perfectly flavorless. But where's the fun in that?" I will answer. An answer from someone who likes vodka, without flavor. I don't consider myself a big drinker first of all, but do drink wine for the taste. Vodka I drink and enjoy for a total cleansing effect. It's nondescript, but I hope it makes some sense. When I want it flavored, a vodka martini isn't too bad. I'd love to know where to get this one in NY (city) or it might be wish full thinking - on Long Island. Sat May 11 00:41:21 -0700 2002 1564857 0 TR 3 1565088 I think that Hangar 1 is available at 5 Corners and Amargansett (sp?) on Long Island. I think... Mon May 13 23:23:38 -0700 2002 1564859 0 Lance Winters 4 1565167 Thank YOU! In 5 Corners of Amagansett? I will look. Tue May 14 14:24:20 -0700 2002 1565088 0 TR 2 1564864 I'm with you on the gin, Tom, though a good vodka (my brother-in-law brought some wonderful stuff back from Ukraine) can be extraordinary. But your post raises another issue: when did "martini" start to mean "vodka"? I'm still not sure that it does, but I got into a discussion with a co-worker yesterday--one who recently moved to Chicago from the U.K., no less--and he seemed convinced that, if you went into a bar and asked for a martini, you'd get vodka. I always thought that the vodka martini was a bit of a bastardization of the oh-so-delicious original. Have I been wrong all these years? What does "martini" mean to you? Sat May 11 09:44:40 -0700 2002 1564857 0 Aaron D 3 1564868 A Martini is always made with Gin- with either a lemon peel twist or olives. If it has cocktail onions it is a Gibson. If you want a Vodka Martini that's what you have to order. If a bartender doesn't know the difference then they aren't worth the title. Sat May 11 11:27:09 -0700 2002 1564864 0 the rogue 4 1564871 Yup. And, another minor bit of trivia is that contrary to OO7 lore, the Martini is not an English creation. Rather, it's as American as apple pie. Sat May 11 12:15:53 -0700 2002 1564868 0 Tom M. 5 1564879 I never heard that it was English, always that it was US, California, possibly San Franciso to be specific. Invented in the late 1800's, the recipe changed around a bit until about 1890. The lemon twist came about around 1900. The addition of the olive may be English from about 1920. The Gibson, (Martini with onion) probably is US from during Prohibition. Sat May 11 16:08:05 -0700 2002 1564871 0 the rogue 4 1564873 Agreed, but vodka is making inroads...due, I suppose, to the neverending litany of flavored martinis, mostly with vodka. Sat May 11 12:36:05 -0700 2002 1564868 0 Aaron D 5 1564878 Flavored "martini's" aren't Martini's. They are cocktails and should be called such. It annoys me so much to hear all these "in" cocktails refered to as Martini's. It's like the southern thing of asking for a "coke" and then they say "What type? Orange, Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, Coca cola, root beer?" Sat May 11 15:57:35 -0700 2002 1564873 0 the rogue 6 1564924 I went to a trendy little "tapas bar" last night. Not really tapas (around here, no one knows what tapas are), just lots of meal-sized appetizers. I ordered a sweet martini, and, as always, I told the waitress the recipe, because no one knows how to make such an old fashioned drink: 1 part sweet vermouth, 3 parts gin. She asked me if I wanted an olive or a twist in it, and I said a cherry. So then she asked me if I wanted it on the rocks in an old-fashioned glass, the way they serve the other "martinis". AARRGHHHH! FIE! Sun May 12 11:52:03 -0700 2002 1564878 0 ironmom 4 1564874 Amen to that. It also pains me deeply to have to order a "gin gimlet", but I've found myself needing to do that if the bartender is under 40 or so if I don't want to go through the annoyance of sending the drink back. Sadly, few bartenders (at least in NYC) are hired because of their drink-smithing abilities - rather for their pretty cheekbones. xxxKat Sat May 11 12:40:07 -0700 2002 1564868 0 Kat Kinsman 4 1564880 OK, I''ll weigh into the fray. Martinis are made with gin. Period. there is no such animal as a vodka martini. If someone wishes--for unfathomable reasons--to drink vodka and vermouth then give it another name. As matters now stand, one may as well order a "Bourbon scotch and water" or a "gin champagne cocktail." A restaurant-owning friend tells me the black news: if his bartenders made every "martini" order with gin, over 75% would be sent back to be replaced with vodka. It is worth noting that the "original" martini--the provenance of which can start a bar fight-- whatever its form bears scant resemblance to the Great Refinement of today. BTW, I had the American Standard recipe around here for years but have not seen it lately. If anyone has the whole thing (discussion of olive/lemon etc) I should appreciate seeing it or having a link to it. It would save a lot of digging. If memory serves, this standard was the last one adopted before the institute changed its name in the mid 1960's, in that glorious age when Darren Stevens and LArry Tate always pounded martinis (rye was on it way out by then, as was the term "Hi-ball") Sat May 11 16:42:24 -0700 2002 1564868 0 Hazelhurst 5 1564882 Actually the real name for a "vodka martini" is a Vodkatini. Invented about 60-70 years after the Martini. Sat May 11 16:47:39 -0700 2002 1564880 0 the rogue 6 1564884 Oh.. Thanks.. I just posted another post telling you all I don't know what else to call it. That's helpful and less of an insult to the gin people. Sat May 11 16:57:13 -0700 2002 1564882 0 TR 5 1564883 Maybe some more bad news: Knowledgeable bartenders or not, I don't know. On several occasions I had asked for (ordered) a martini with vodka instead of gin. (I don't like gin.... am not a heavy liquor drinker.) I don't know what else to call it..... I've been looked at with crossed eyes and told it's a "vodka martini". To ask for that. I'm sorry if it's upsetting to the true martini (gin) drinkers, but personally I don't care what they call it, as long as it's what I requested. Sat May 11 16:55:34 -0700 2002 1564880 0 TR 6 1564902 Drink what you like ,the rest is B.S. Sun May 12 01:01:33 -0700 2002 1564883 0 howardS 7 1564916 What a nice surprise, so early in the morning. Thanks! But don't tell me you are one of those who start what others have said end up in bar room fights. :) I actually agree with you and never understood such rigidity (about anything). But here, amongst the passionate, I will semi quietly observe. Sun May 12 09:21:12 -0700 2002 1564902 0 TR 8 1564923 I don't think anybody here cares that many people like and prefer a vodka martini (or any other cocktail you might enjoy) to a regular martini, but don't you think there's something to be said for a common vocabulary? It just means everyone gets what they order. Sun May 12 11:48:33 -0700 2002 1564916 0 Aaron D 9 1564925 Everybody should drink exactly what they like. The problem arises when the person who orders a "martini" gets something different from what they expected, because the person who makes it has a different definition of what that should be. Sun May 12 11:55:12 -0700 2002 1564923 0 ironmom 10 1564928 It's just a fun thing to fight over with rigid,unyeilding passion that might otherwise be found in Religion or Politics and that's when people can get hurt. Used to be a WW II joke about the pilot flying across the desert alone. HIs survival kit was an envelope. "Now, what the hell is this?" he asked. "Where is my knife, water, map, compass?" "Don't need that old-fashioned approach," he was told, "This is the newest thing." So he looked inside and he found a sheet of paper that said. "IN CASE OF CRASH READ THE FOLLOWING OUT LOUD: How to make a perfect martini. Take two ounces gin and....." "What the hell good is THAT?" "Well, as soon as you start speaking, some SOB will walk up and say "That's NOT how to do it!" and you follow him out of the desert!" Sun May 12 12:13:46 -0700 2002 1564925 0 Hazelhurst 11 1564931 I like that. Funny and true. Sun May 12 12:17:11 -0700 2002 1564928 0 TR 12 1564960 Drink enough gin or vodka martini's and the whole question becomes moot anyway. Sun May 12 21:15:54 -0700 2002 1564931 0 howardS 11 1564961 I remember the first time I saw the "Thin Man" and how impressed I was with the large constant quantities of martini's Nick and Nora had. Maybe Asta too.(They preferred gin,Asta vodka, triple filtered). Sun May 12 21:22:50 -0700 2002 1564928 0 howardS 12 1565037 Yes. Remember that Nick and Nora were drinking small (maybe 3 ounce) glasses, and that the recipe back then contained a good amount of vermouth. After years of experimenting, I also use small cocktail glasses and the mixing proportions of 3-1/2 gin to 1 vermouth. (I'll ask for 4-to-1 in a bar so I don't come off like a big pain-in-the-arse. "Wet" as opposed to "dry" doesn't seem a proper bartender request.) I really dislike modern-day bar standards: practically no vermouth and in a fishbowl-size glass. That's practically straight gin, which, if I wanted, I would order. The quantity is WAY too much, and if I am in the mood to get toasted, I'll just order more cocktails, and then they will be fresh and icy cold. A warmed martini is very unlovely. A smaller drink works so much better as an aperitif, being followed by dinner. A big bucket of gin can get you you too drunky with no food (a real drag when you've been looking forward to tasting your meal), or it can lose its chill while you're talking or perusing the menu. The tiny one will give you flavor and a kick and be over when it's time for the wine. Mon May 13 14:17:47 -0700 2002 1564961 0 K. McB. 13 1565057 I agree about the proportions to a martini. 3-1 max 4-1 gin to dry vermouth. Gin is made with botanicals. vermouth is made with some of the same botanicals. When you have a decent amount of vermouth it really brings out the taste of all those herbs (Juniper berry, coriander, citrus, and up to a dozen more are in gin and vermouth.) Which is what gin, and therefore even more so a martini, is all about. Also the huge glasses used someplaces means either you chug it (Ugh! What a waste!) or it gets warm (Bigger Ugh! ! ) A small glass means that it is cold all the way through the sipping and so all the crisp bright flavors come through. Mon May 13 15:37:55 -0700 2002 1565037 0 the rogue 13 1565089 At the restaurant "First" they give you a bucket full of small glasses of Martini's.Tasty meaty chicken wings too,they look more like chicken tootsie pops. Tue May 14 00:06:45 -0700 2002 1565037 0 howardS 10 1564930 Maybe then we should do what we have been -- those wanting a martini with vodka ask for it that way, and if possible those wanting a (gin) martini, as for theirs that way. (Might be starting a war here, I know.) We have to change with the times sometimes and we will eventually learn by our mistakes -- I've seen many a drink go back for worse reasons. Aaron D, am pressed for time at the moment, but yes a common vocabulary is always a great thing, but I am sure we 'hounds can come up with many foods/dishes that are not similarly named from place to place or country to country. And therein lies an interest, not disturbance/confusion, for me. But that's just me. Maybe we can start a thread on foods/dishes which cause confusion. I do think however, the point of the martini and gin lover's posts was that gin is what makes an 'authetic' martini and adding anything to the name 'martini' is a sin or something similar, rather than their concern bar patrons might end up with the wrong martini. Sun May 12 12:15:08 -0700 2002 1564925 0 TR 11 1564967 And perhaps there is something to that defense of authenticity. When Chablis and Burgundy came to be used generically for white and red wines, the reputation of each suffered. And it drives me crazy when I see the magnum of "Chianti" my mother always buys from California--I certainly don't mind that my mother enjoys that wine, but it's certainly not Chianti for goodness sake. I run into the same problem with cheese. I recently got into a heated (friendly) discussion with a good friend who insisted that gorgonzola was just not a very good cheese to eat alone or with bread. She admitted that she thought all the gorgonzola she'd had had been made in wisconsin. I was forced to buy a nice chunk of mountain gorgonzola (if only I could be forced to do such things more often!) that we both heartily enjoyed. It's unfortunate, I think, that people can miss out on so many delightful treasures because they don't really know what they're eating or drinking--someone who intensely argued, for example, that they didn't like martinis because of their experience with apple, orange, and chocolate "martinis". And the sad thing, it seems, is that really quality untrademarked "brands" (e.g. burgundy, "Parmesan") are used as marketing ploys for far inferior products. Sun May 12 22:47:33 -0700 2002 1564930 0 Aaron D 12 1565161 Sorry to have missed this Aaron. You make an awfully good point. The other evening I was sure to ask the waitstaff if the gorgonzola salad plate was just that, instead of a blue. I love gorgonzola, but can see other's passing off some cheesy (no pun intended) blue in it's place and not too many would know. I have a sil who believes duck is chicken, which she hates, and she made the most horrible face when I told her how happy I was to find duck legs/thighs in my local market so that I can make some duck confit. She's never tasted nor seen any of it, but this belief duck is chicken would not go away. And yes, she is missing out. She'd love it. -- I will have to trick her one day. Tue May 14 14:13:22 -0700 2002 1564967 0 TR 5 1565036 The Wine Enthusiast has the "Martini hits 100" at their website. http://www.wineenthusiastmagazine.com/ISSUES/MAY02/proof_positive.cfm They discuss the origin of Martini with Gin and how it's changed recently to vodka, and has a few receipes. Here's to ~ good spirits ~ Jacqueline Mon May 13 14:15:56 -0700 2002 1564880 0 Jacqueline 3 1564904 I certainly don't begrudge vodka drinkers, but I cling to tradition as regards the Martini. The drink to me is, and only is, the American Standard Dry Martini (ASDM). Good gin, shaken with just the slightest touch of dry vermouth, and served up with an olive. I don't even buy into the twist. An olive. Too much vermouth, it's ruined. Should just be a whisp. And another thing. All the shee-shee bars these days serve their "martinis" in these massively oversized martini glasses. Not that I'm against consumption, but this trend is bad. The chill wears off before the drink runs out. Keep them in a standard glass, and order another if you really want more. There's a reason for the size: it stays nice and cold. My firm threw a big celeb at the St. Francis in SF several months back, and we had a "martini bar." Which was stocked solely with a variety of vodkas. So, I found myself lining up at the "other" bar to get my real ASDM. Kinda absurd. And while I'm on my rant, what's the deal with the "Apple-tini?" Best (or worst) example in Los Angeles is at a place called Lulu's in W. Hollywood. It's this sticky sweet thing that tastes like a jolly rancher, that they dare serve in a martini glass with a big slice of green apple. People suck 'em down like a soda pop, not realizing how drunk they are getting. Blaaaak. Which I guess is my biggest beef with Vodka. Unlike gin, which you can really taste, it's much harder to know you're limit with a flavorless (or sweetened) alcohol. The one time I really enjoyed vodka was at a traditional Russian dinner, somewhere on Fairfax in LA. Amazing food, and bottomless bottles of ice cold Stoli. Only meal I've ever had where everyone has a shot glass next to their plate. Averaged two or three shots per course, non-negotiable. Great fun, but I got up from the table and could barely walk home (thank god I was walking.) Sun May 12 01:57:34 -0700 2002 1564864 0 Tom M. 2 1564875 Gin is a flavored grain alcohol, too--flavored with juniper berries, among other things. But I have to take issue with you that good vodka is flavorless. I prefer potato vodka precisely because it has a distinct flavor as well as smoothness. With certain appetizers, like caviar or smoked fish, straight ice cold potato vodka (we keep it in the freezer) with a twist of lemon is superb. I recently came home from a visit to SF with a boxful of Meyer lemons, and put the peels from two or three lemons into a full bottle of potato vodka. It's been sitting for six weeks now, and I'm about to put it into the freezer so we can start enjoying it. We also like martinis, and drink them only with gin--olive and a twist. My favorite gin is Boodles, but so few bars carry that, so when we drink them away from home, we ask for Bombay. Too bad I missed knowing about Hangar One when I was visiting the Bay Area. I would have gone out of my way to find some and bring it home with me. Sat May 11 12:57:26 -0700 2002 1564857 0 zora 3 1564912 Those who don't like vodka (volka) must not have had it the best way. I think the best way to have vodka is to freeze a vodka bottle in a bucket of water and when the water is frozen, take it out, to the patio, a few friends, a couple of shot glasses. Pour out vodka and crack FRESH pepper in the shot glasses and down... bite on the pepper bits as it goes. DEFINITELY the best way to get it done...... Sun May 12 04:41:54 -0700 2002 1564875 0 icecold 4 1564940 The best way to drink good vodka (or any other good-quality liquor) is straight up, at room temperature. If the vodka is frozen and drunk with pepper, you do not get any vodka flavor, only pepper. This could however be a good way to drink bad vodka, for the same reason that it is not a good way to drink good vodka. If you're killing the flavor, no reason to invest in liquor with flavor. Sun May 12 14:11:27 -0700 2002 1564912 0 Jeremy Osner 5 1565044 I'm Russian and I have to disagree. Russians just don't drink their vodka room temperature. That's anathema to us! It has to be ice cold and the consistency of syrop. It does NOT kill the flavor at all, it enhances it. Personally, Stoli is my favorite vodka and I think it's pretty damn good :-). But then again, everyone should drink what they like and how they like it! Mon May 13 14:43:31 -0700 2002 1564940 0 Tatyana Gourov 4 1564985 Erm I think you are wrong on that front, pepper helps enhance the flavor (if any in a vodka, good vodka is almost flavourless if I am not wrong, its the texture that differienates good from bad) and having it chilled allows for the drink to go down more smoothly without the burning sensation, its like drink white wine chilled... or champange... you can't say its bad. Besides vodka cannot freeze, the alcohol content makes it freezing point way too low for the freeze to reach... Mon May 13 03:06:27 -0700 2002 1564912 0 icecold 5 1564998 Much prefer gin (Tanqueray or Bombay Sapphire) to vodka, tho a good quality vodka will do in a pinch. I store either in the freezer and prefer to drink them neat, over ice or not. Freezing them doesn't solidify them, but it creates a thickened product which is ever so nice to sip slowly. Mon May 13 09:55:19 -0700 2002 1564985 0 sudiepav