289065 Tue Apr 23 21:36:06 -0700 2002 49 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1563092 In the latest Cook's Illustrated, they do a comparison between a whole host of different grills. When I began reading the article, I was not expecting to have my mind changed. I am a Weber kind of guy, simple, deep, portable, sturdy, and no-frills. My mind was changed. The grill that won was a New Braunfels, Sante Fe model. Some of the amenities included the ability to adjust the cooking rack to change the proximity to the fire being able to add coals to the fire mid-fire to keep it going, ash deposit, end tables. All things the Weber does not have. Its price is approximately the same as the Weber's. Does anyone have any personal experience with this grill? Is it worth my changing from a Weber man to a New Braunfels man (it definitely does not have the same ring)? jake Tue Apr 23 21:36:06 -0700 2002 0 jake pine 1 1563106 How about one of each ! Just kidding. I don't have a grill nowdays but I used to own a weber. It could do no wrong. Even when I burned things it still was great. I have made a promise to myself though that when I do buy another it will have the ability to adjust the height from the flame. Wed Apr 24 00:34:03 -0700 2002 1563092 0 DavidH 1 1563112 Nope. Just have my 22" Weber, purchaed from Amazon on a sale for $59!! (It's the yellow Simpson's model--ugly as hell). It does have the ash deposit and a higed cooking grid to allow additional charcoal to be added. Not sure the adjustable height would be a big feature for me, as most of my cooking is done indirectly, and I can always adjust the temp by opening or closing the vents or restacking the burning coals. Weber makes 3 models with different features. Wed Apr 24 08:18:12 -0700 2002 1563092 0 Alan H 1 1563136 To appropriately determine if you are a Weber man or a New Braunfels man, you will have to go to New Braunfels for wurst fest and drink beer from paint cans. I'm sure this will lead to a logical conclusion. Wed Apr 24 11:32:09 -0700 2002 1563092 0 mc michael 2 1563139 I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but on the assumpton you are not kidding, where/what is this fest? Me like Wurst and paint can beer. jake Wed Apr 24 11:45:43 -0700 2002 1563136 0 jake pine 3 1563143 Would I kid you? Link: http://www.chamberhub.com/cgi/foxweb.exe/commcale/99profile?caleid=1232&cc=NewBrfcc Wed Apr 24 12:16:34 -0700 2002 1563139 0 mc micheal 4 1563177 Ah, that explains a lot of your postings michael, paint can beer... Wed Apr 24 16:04:20 -0700 2002 1563143 0 Chino Wayne 5 1563192 Not to spoil your vision, but no paint actually graces the cans. Only beer. Wed Apr 24 18:35:50 -0700 2002 1563177 0 mc michael 6 1563197 But what size can do you guzzle from, pint, quart or gallon? Wed Apr 24 19:17:57 -0700 2002 1563192 0 Chino Wayne 7 1563198 The options as I recall are half pint, pint and quart. Wed Apr 24 19:23:01 -0700 2002 1563197 0 mc michael 1 1563158 Another grill that, like the New Braunfels, allows you to change the proximity to the fire, allowing you to cook indirectly (smoke) in addition to just grilling, is the Hasty Bake. They're super expensive, but great. Did Cook's Illustrated include a Hasty Bake in their comparison? There's a web site. Hastybake.com, I think. Wed Apr 24 13:58:32 -0700 2002 1563092 0 Cathy Elton 2 1563182 Whoa--that looks cool. I think I'm in love. How much are these babies?? I see they don't have a Massachusetts distributor. Wed Apr 24 16:26:22 -0700 2002 1563158 0 Alan H 3 1563253 Alan, I think Hasty Bakes are about $900. There is a distributor in Connecticut - take a drive! Thu Apr 25 11:47:43 -0700 2002 1563182 0 Cathy Elton 4 1563348 Yikes! Why did a previous poster claim $99 (which seemed ridiculously low to me)?? Fri Apr 26 08:34:36 -0700 2002 1563253 0 Alan H 2 1563217 They did not do the hasty bake. The most expensive one they looked at was the Cajun Grill at $519. They also did the Weber Performer at $399. A big part of what made the New Braunfels sound good was what it offered for the listed price ($99). jake Wed Apr 24 22:03:40 -0700 2002 1563158 0 jake pine 1 1563179 I have had the same Webber grill for about 25 years, I have only had to replace the upper grill once, and the lower grill (where you pile on the coals) once, because I had warped the steel from too much heat. The webber is great for indirect cooking/smoking, I have turned out some truly wonderful smoked turkey, ribs and chicken with this baby. Alas, since you cannot adjust the distance between the top grill surface and the coals below, you do not have good control for direct cooking. If you want to broil a steak and really sear it at high heat, the top grill surface is too far from the coals. I have tried to remedy this by just pilling on a ton of coals, to get them closer to the meat, and create a hotter fire. This does work, but you may end up with a warped grill. I would recommend a Webber for all the indirect cooking, I know that Webber has add on attachments for the basic cooker. I would look for a simple, old fashioned shallow dish, with the grill portion mounted on a spindle, with a handle underneatch the "bowl" that you can use to crank the grill surface up or down for direct cooking. Sometimes the simplest solutions, such as the basic Webber Kettle work a hell of a lot better than all the fancy schmancy, high priced doo-dads. Wed Apr 24 16:11:22 -0700 2002 1563092 0 Chino Wayne 2 1563216 This New Braunfels is the same list price as the Weber kettle, $99. I love my Weber, and I've figured out many ways to do both indirect and direct heat cooking. This other grill simply looks like it could make some of these things easier. It is also 100 square inches larger than the Weber. In the article, they liken it to cars. All cars will get you from point a to b, but then some have power steering and antilock brakes to make the car easier to drive, and sunroof or heated seats to make the ride more enjoyable. I also give credence to the people at Cook's Illustrated. It is a great food magazine, and the product testing is virtually always informative and interesting. This one really caught me off guard because I've been so committed to my Weber for so long. jake Wed Apr 24 21:58:47 -0700 2002 1563179 0 jake pine 3 1563237 I hear you, and that Hastybake sounds interesting too. Thu Apr 25 10:01:14 -0700 2002 1563216 0 Chino Wayne 2 1563315 FORGET CHARCOAL!!!! The cooker that you really want and costs only a hundred bucks is a PROPANE BRINKMANN "ALL in ONE SMOKER" (not the regular Brinkmann Propane smoker, which is not the same). They are unbelievable! First off, they preheat in 2 mins not 20, next they sear or slow cook at the turn of a knob, next they don't make food taste like lighter fluid, next YOU have CONTROL. Tow that Weber away to the junk yard. Thu Apr 25 19:01:47 -0700 2002 1563179 0 russkar 3 1563316 If it preheats in 2 plus minutes, how can you get loaded before the food's done? And it's gas for god's sake? Real Neanderthals use charcoal! Thu Apr 25 19:10:16 -0700 2002 1563315 0 mc michael 4 1563343 It cooks so well and fast there's extra time to get loaded later, see, it's better than you probably expected Fri Apr 26 01:28:51 -0700 2002 1563316 0 russkar 5 1563362 See Alan's post. Propane ignores the primitive man, hunter-gatherer mystique of the charcoal fire. And then there's the flava. Fri Apr 26 10:48:12 -0700 2002 1563343 0 mc michael 6 1563365 I use big chunks of Mesquite with my Propane smoker so the flavor is not an issue and even using a chimmney charcoal would still takes several minutes and a big mess.. When I was a "beginner" I used charcoal all the time, still do when I'm camping, let's face it there is nothing else to do then anyway. Fri Apr 26 11:40:14 -0700 2002 1563362 0 russkar 7 1563370 that's funny, when I'm camping I cook on wood. Why drag charcoal around? As for the chimney-- no mess and I'm cooking in less than 10 minutes. Mesquite with propane is fine if you want mesquite flavor---I use it with charcoal often, but sometimes a simple charcoal grilled hunk of meat is just the thing. Nothing wrong with propane, but you might as well just cook under your broiler. Fri Apr 26 12:05:11 -0700 2002 1563365 0 Alan H 8 1563374 sometimes a simple charcoal grilled hunk of meat is just the thing>> Exactly. Not to be overlooked is real mesquite charcoal which really holds the heat. Takes a while to warm up but when it does you don't have to worry about adding more coals. Fri Apr 26 12:22:54 -0700 2002 1563370 0 mc michael 7 1563375 Yuk. I can't stand mesquite. It doesn't enhance flavor, it masks flavor. That may be fine for a really crappy cut of beef. Fri Apr 26 12:32:28 -0700 2002 1563365 0 KathyR 8 1563379 Your right! Mesquite in large quanities does mask flavor and should be only used with Crappy Cuts. I'm using it for enhancement only and alot of the time I don't use mesquite at all. The temp of the Smoker I use is several hundred degrees hotter than Reg Charcoal and even much hotter than Mesquite Charcoal. The hotter the better, at least in the BBQ PRO division. Fri Apr 26 13:34:15 -0700 2002 1563375 0 russkar 9 1563381 It's mesquite for the charcoal. Hickory for the wood chips. Fri Apr 26 13:49:29 -0700 2002 1563379 0 mc michael 10 1563396 Actually wood chips come in several varieties, mesquite, cherry, hickory, applewood, orangewood, to name a few. Fri Apr 26 14:36:50 -0700 2002 1563381 0 russkar 11 1563423 So, no need to worry about the mesquite masking the flava. Fri Apr 26 17:35:17 -0700 2002 1563396 0 mc michael 12 1563440 RIGHT! It's the most awesome cooking machine, you'll see. Fri Apr 26 20:19:13 -0700 2002 1563423 0 russkar 13 1563471 Actually, I was referring to the different type of chips available, not the equipment used. While on the toppic of chips, Trader Joe has some old oak wine barrel hunks o wood that are not bad at all and soaked in wine of course. Sat Apr 27 14:37:00 -0700 2002 1563440 0 mc michael 9 1563384 I beg to differ. Imagine your spare ribs after blasting them for 4 hours at 600 degrees. Apparently you are not barecuing, but you are grilling. You keep referring to your "smoker" yet you harp on how hot your grill gets. These comments are a contradiction to each other. Smoking is SLOW cooking at a low temperature. Anyway, this is getting silly. You like proplane. Woo-hoo, I'm convinced. Fri Apr 26 14:00:12 -0700 2002 1563379 0 Alan H 10 1563394 It's called a SMOKER but it can do both. 170,000 btu's Fri Apr 26 14:34:41 -0700 2002 1563384 0 russkar 11 1563398 Wow, great. Toatlly useless for the task at hand. Fri Apr 26 14:43:26 -0700 2002 1563394 0 Alan H 12 1563438 I'm sorry you don't get it. I tried, I really did. Sometimes it better not to know what your missing. Fri Apr 26 20:18:06 -0700 2002 1563398 0 russkar 3 1563347 First of all, charcoal and wood make a better tasting BBQ. Second, it doesn't take me 20 minutes to fire up the Weber, and I don't use lighter fluid. Stick with charcoal, and get one of those chimney devices which work great for starting a charcoal fire. Propane is for amateurs. Fri Apr 26 08:32:13 -0700 2002 1563315 0 Alan H 3 1563456 Very interesting, all this time you have been telling me how you make the best baby backs in the world, and now I learn it isn't done over a coal or wood fire. Maybe I need to bring my Kettle over to your house and show you how it is done. I am not afraid or worried even though I figure you would bring the combined resources of the Cal-Tech Jet Propulsion Laboratory, the entire west coast aironautical/industrial complex, and your connections to the purveyors of the finest meat in the land to bear on poor, little 'ole me. I'll knock you off with a coal from my trusty sling-shot. Sat Apr 27 01:06:14 -0700 2002 1563315 0 Chino Wayne 4 1563463 Don't touch that Kettle! It's probably rusted out by now and what a mess. If you want the BEST BB RIBS your going to have to have your asbestos suit on, it takes lots of heat to make you think I cooked them for many hours, oops I mean less than 4 minutes. Yes, I'm going to cheat also and get the Ribs, from Canada(they have the best pork). When all is said and done(and you've has a slab or two) you'll be laughing with me at all those people still playing with their Webers, I'm sure yours will make a nice flower planter. Sat Apr 27 10:15:09 -0700 2002 1563456 0 russkar 5 1563467 OK, wise guy, here's the deal: We will set a date in the future and I'll come over for a little demonstration of your alledged superior BBQ apparatus/technique. But I will bring the meat, none of your fancy imported pork, some BB's that I can pick-up at a local supermarket and a steak, that if I am lucky, might be graded Choice, not a hunk of that luscious sirloin you stashed in Herman's trunk the other day. That way my judgement of the end result will be based solely on your choice of apparatus/technique, and not enhanced by any superior raw ingredients that a common rube like myself would not normally have access to. Then you will prepare and cook them while sharing a glass or two of the fruit of the vine from your sophisticated collection with me, in the apparent sterile, utilitarian, industrial BBQ'ing environment at your house. Then when you have finished preparing this repast, I will taste the product of your alledged superior methods. I will also have observed with my own two eyes, while still in a relatively non-alcohol addled state, how quick and easy your method really is. If, after I taste your product that I determine (and I promise not to bring any bias to my taste receptors) that you are in fact correct, accurate and truthful in the far fetched claims you have been making in these precincts, which up until now, have been, shall we say, reminiscent of the rantings of a man who thinks that he can strap on a pair of homemade wings, jump off a cliff, and by simply flapping his arm/wings, ensure that he will walk away still intact aftwards. Then I pledge that I will publically acknowledge in this forum, for all 'hounds across the land that you are in fact a true genius of the art and science of 'Q and that I humbly bow down to your masterfulness in everything BBQ, and I will immediately acquire the apparatus that you have extolled here and relegate my old friend, the fire-engine red Webber Kettle to the Doo Dah Parade. However, if that occurs, I will instruct my spouse, relatives and heirs, and any others with a vested interest in my welfare, that when the day comes, after I have been indoctrinated in to this colorless, scientifically engineered, sterile, smokeless fratenity of alledged masters of the big 'Q, and apparently sold my soul to the devil in my selfish, self-gratifying pursuit of the ultimate in BBQ deliciousness, that they should do everything that is possible to track you down, going to the ends of the earth if necessary, so that they may compell you to adopt me as your ward, and see to the obvious long and expensive psychiatric treatment that I will require for the remaining days of my life as a man with a broken spirit. A man broken by the fact that I will have perhaps foolishly and callously thrown away the shear joy that I had previously experienced in life all those times, in the far too quickly retreating past, that I had been able to blacken my hands during the process of fueling a REAL BBQ with coals, that I had been able to squirt half of a quart can of Wizzard on those coals and to throw a match on them, and then run like hell a safe distance away as the fireball erupted from that beautiful, round, symmetical red cauldron. All those times, never to return, when I had been able to sit out in the backyard with a cold breski or two or three, periodically adding soaked wood chips to the maw of the big, beutiful, organic, red orb, having to reposition my chair around the compass points radiating from that magical, mysterious orb, every time the wind changed direction and blue, hickory smoke engulfed me, infushing my clothes, beard and hair in a smokey aroma. All of those times never to return, when I could sit out in the backyard knowing my neighbors to the North, South, East and West of me were becoming more and more hyper-stimulated and envious of me by the minute, as the aroma of the smoke or the resulting wonderful salivary flow and olfactory stimluation that the aroma from the vapors than can only come when meat or poultry fat drips down on a hot coal and vaporizes in to the air, knowing all the time the exquisite torture I was inflicting on those neighbors, as they were occupied in their own mundane, infinately inferior lives to mine, and they all at the very same instant had the tought "Oh my God, I want that, that Chino Wayne must be a 'Q genius, a master of the pit and the coolest person in the world, I sure wish I had thought of what he is doing now." You, Russkar, you will have taken that away from me through your machinations when you convinced me to the superiority of your ways, will you be capable of handling all the guilt from your actions? Sat Apr 27 12:33:52 -0700 2002 1563463 0 Chino Wayne 6 1563472 I would be laughing my butt off, but I'm afraid one of you would grab it and throw on the fire. Sat Apr 27 14:38:26 -0700 2002 1563467 0 mc michael 7 1563480 Well, as I mentioned above, I am accustomed to swilling two or three bottles of beer during 'Q operaations, so when Russkar is demonstrating his prowess to me, and the beverage is my host's preference (i.e. a bottle of wine), it would of course, be necessary for each of us to consume two or three bottles, a piece, so yes, you could be correct in your assumption and I commend you for your accurate analysis of the situation and your very wise stategy of self-protection, and all 'hounds will be well advised, to never, never, never, never, ever, come between either Russkar or me and meat and a fire, especially after we have been engaged in self-lubrication. I have new found respect for your obvious superior ability to analyze a tactical situation mc michael. Sat Apr 27 18:55:34 -0700 2002 1563472 0 Chino Wayne 8 1563487 The thing I fear, Wayne, is that by encouraging (nay, goading you on)your various culinary pilgrimages, challenges, etc., I am enabling you to avoid the pleasures of your liquid diet. This may be hazardous to your health, if not the health of laboratory animals. Is an intervention needed? Sat Apr 27 19:40:11 -0700 2002 1563480 0 mc michael 9 1563492 An intervention? No, but I need you to accompany me to my doctor at 12:15 Monday afternoon, so that when he looks at me and says "How has it been going", I can just point to you and say "It's all his fault." Then you can tell him "I am sorry sir that I am one of the causes of the lack of sufficient blending this week, how can I ever atone for my transgressions?" (The atoning for transgressions is important, because besides his medical degree, the doc has a Masters in Divinity and happens to moonlight as a practicing minister. Also of significance he is Greek, and a potentially very useful source of Greek chowing informaztion in our neck of the woods. So we need to do two things, one is to demonstrate real progress on The Liquid Diet so that he will again grant me a six week reprieve in time for the Roving Chow Fest, the subsequent Reno road trip, and the subsequent trip to New Orleans in late June. The second thing we need to do is to get in his good graces by showing him how earnest we are so that he will in fact, divulge those locations for prime Greek food, that only he would know.) You will be at the Roving Chow Fest won't you? Because I may need a lot of "minders" with me, otherwise things could get very nasty. Sat Apr 27 21:39:30 -0700 2002 1563487 0 Chino Wayne 10 1563539 Maybe the doc can turn you on to some Greek weddings. As for the roving Chowfest, I think I'm gonna have to pass this time in that we are on the verge of adopting an infant just as soon as she's born which could be any minute now...or real real soon. But sign me up for the one after the June festivities. Sun Apr 28 19:12:12 -0700 2002 1563492 0 mc michael 11 1563550 OK, we'll give you a rain-check and flap a jack at Dupar's in your honor. One of my earliest memories is of accompanying my parents as a toddler to the old Pump Room in Studio City, so start the kid off right. Sun Apr 28 23:55:23 -0700 2002 1563539 0 Chino Wayne 6 1563648 First off, no inferior (store bought) meat products are "touching" my Smoker Grill during or after my life time. Next, signed and notorized waviers will need to be presented , so your allowed to watch and taste. Next, you don't need to throw yourself at the mercy of the Hounds, because I have a "lock" on the results, how else could I make such seemingly outragous claims if I didn't already know the outcome. Start planning the WAKE for the Weber because, it's days on earth are limited. Soon as I return from Maui I will preform the "Weber exorcism" while you are screaming those immortal words "OH NO, TAKE ME INSTEAD, but not until I've had another bite from the Smoker"!!!!!!!!!!! Mon Apr 29 19:33:39 -0700 2002 1563467 0 russkar 7 1563668 OK buddy, I know when you leave for Maui, so I am counting the days until you return, you have hyped this so much now I really wanna see you do it and I really wanna taste the results. Pick a Saturday or Sunday after you return to the mainland and I'll meet you at the pancake house and buy your breakfast to get your motor running and then we can go over to your house and I will find out the truth. Mon Apr 29 22:06:20 -0700 2002 1563648 0 Chino Wayne 8 1563675 The ORIG Pancake House will be probably more than your ready for or have ever experienced anytime in the past. Let's wait till your out of Intensive care after the Giant Apple Pancake takes hold of your R & L taste bud and won't let go. I'll use the Ribs to resuscitate you, kind of like smelling salts. Mon Apr 29 23:20:12 -0700 2002 1563668 0 russkar 1 1563252 I assume you know that you can get an alternate grill for the Weber that has a drop in iron grate that holds more heat and puts those nice stripes on the meat. That combined with real mesquite charcoal can compensate for height differential issues. Thu Apr 25 11:35:22 -0700 2002 1563092 0 mc michael