288812 Thu Mar 28 17:13:40 -0800 2002 26 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1560378 one day i was watching a cooking show on PBS (i forget the name of it). it was produced by an anthropologist who traveled in mexico and talked about food and culture. in this show he mentioned a mexican dish - chicken braised or stewed or simmered in chocolate sauce - NOT SWEET chocolate. ya. does anyone know the name of this dish? i TOTALLY have forgotten the name of this or anything else about the program that would help me find it again. ill appreciate any comments:). p.s. i REALLY wanna find the recipe. Thu Mar 28 17:13:40 -0800 2002 0 grouchy chef 1 1560379 It is mole and it is made with about a million spices and Mexican chocolate, which is easy to find. Thu Mar 28 17:16:12 -0800 2002 1560378 0 erica 2 1560388 Mole Rojo Classico de Guajolope is most typically made with turkey. It's a long and complicated recipe, but Rick Bayless has produced a slightly compromised version which sacrifices very little of its essential character and makes it simpler for gringo cooks. You can find it in Rick's recent and easily obtainable book, _Mexico One Plate at a Time_. Other slightly more complex versions are in Rick's original book, _Authentic Mexican_ and Diana Kennedy's classic _The Essential Cuisines of Mexico_. There's also a very good recipe in the Latin-American volume of Time-Life's _Foods of the World_. This is one dish which really repays the time and effort required to do it properly. Once you've acquired a certain proficiency it will reflect in all the rest of your cooking -- like life drawing for artists. Thu Mar 28 17:42:39 -0800 2002 1560379 0 John Whiting 3 1560735 hey i wanna thank everyone who replied to my questions about mole - i have more info than ill be able to use. also, ill never forget and call it chocolatechickenfrommexico - the name MOLE is imprinted in my grey matter. thanks:). Mon Apr 01 19:41:15 -0800 2002 1560388 0 grouchy chef 1 1560386 I think you mean mole (moh-lay) sauce. It's made from bitter chocolate, chile peppers, and about fifty different spices. It's a total pain in the keister to make but boy, is it delicious. Comes in many colours, too... red, brown, green... Thu Mar 28 17:38:36 -0800 2002 1560378 0 PRSMDave 1 1560422 If you don't have tons of time, there are acceptable versions in the Mexican Food secions of the local grocery store. You can add what you like to the paste and it is fairly good and quick...of couse home-made is best! Try Pipian also, it is made with roasted pumpkins seeds as the base...ymmmmm! Shanti, Jill Thu Mar 28 21:56:49 -0800 2002 1560378 0 jill 2 1560436 In fact you can buy the whole schmeer all made up in a can. Why bother with this forum anyway? :-) Fri Mar 29 01:21:29 -0800 2002 1560422 0 John Whiting 1 1560432 The PBS cooking show that fits your description is "Mexico-One Plate at a Time" with Rick Bayless. The recipe is most likely in the companion cook book of the same name, which is readily available at any bookstore or Amazon.com. You might also check out his web site, some of the recipes from the show are on it, although I don't recall if the mole recipe is or is not. The link is below. Link: http://fronterakitchens.com Fri Mar 29 00:38:16 -0800 2002 1560378 0 Gayla 2 1560437 It isn't in fact. But it was illuminating to visit the website. After the austerity of his original book, it was like a Cecil B. DeMille version of Christ feeding the multitude. The book of _One Plate at a Time_, which I've already cited, at least has some dignity. I can't wait to get back to the great Frontera Grill -- should be easy to find now with all the neon signs. :-( Fri Mar 29 01:32:44 -0800 2002 1560432 0 John Whiting 3 1560440 I pulled out my copy of Mexico-One Plate at a Time to see if the recipe was indeed in the book. Probably should have checked first ;-). I have cooked from this cookbook (as well as at least 2 of his other cookbooks) and, in general, the recipes are well tested and work pretty much as written. I have found, however, that I prefer the flavor profile in the recipes in the Diana Kennedy cookbooks. That's just my personal perference. Someone looking to cook Mexican couldn't go wrong using either the Kennedy books or Rick Bayless' books, they're both good at what they do. Several years ago I was in Chicago for the NRA and tried to convince the people I was with that we should go to Frontera Grill for dinner. No go, Mexican food in Chicago was too much of an oxymoron for them. So I still haven't been, and since I get to Chicago about as often as NASA still goes to the moon the odds aren't looking too good right now. So if you go, have a great time and have a Maggie for me Fri Mar 29 02:05:31 -0800 2002 1560437 0 Gayla 4 1560448 I agree with you about Diana Kennedy. I can't find her book to quote exactly, but the key lies, she says, in pan roasting all the spices, one by one, before adding them at their various stages -- much like Indian cookery. I recommended Rick's latest because it goes about as far as one can go in the direction of compromise before the taste curve begins to fall sharply. There was a recent thread about authenticity in which Russ Parsons participated with a very revealing posting about Rick Baylis and another author who both brought out books on Mexican cuisine at the same time. Rick, who took a totally purist approach, was much lauded, while the other author, who described Mexican cooking as it was actually being done, was dismissed for her lack of "authenticity". Sigh. Fri Mar 29 08:24:52 -0800 2002 1560440 0 John Whiting 5 1560454 I'd be interested in going back and reading that thread. If you can provide me with the link, or at least with the title of the tread and which board it was on I would be very appreciative. "Authentic" is a subjective word ;-). The one thing that both Diana Kennedy and Rick Bayless do extremely well, though, is the text accompanying their recipes. Each has a very distinctive voice that I've found engaging over the years. Diana Kennedy you can almost read like a novel with recipes interspersed. And if you read Rick's cookbook and then watch the TV show (or any show he happens to be on) you'll find he writes very much like he speaks, all that graduate school paid off . I don't think that their particular styles of writing can be discounted, as it has contributed to their overall success. Take both authors and compare their first books to their latest books, both show huge develoment and refinement of their styles in a positive way. Fri Mar 29 09:44:25 -0800 2002 1560448 0 Gayla 6 1560479 Indeed, they can both write, which is not to be taken for granted. Another whom I have great respect for is Susana Trilling; she has a self-published pamphlet on the "Nine Molés" (Was it nine? Don't have it in front of me.) A beautiful little bit of printing. Do you know if she's related to Lionel and Diana? I haven't been able to find out. Fri Mar 29 11:54:50 -0800 2002 1560454 0 John Whiting 7 1560598 Funny you should mention Susanna Trilling. I'm taking a class she's giving here in the States in a few weeks. Looking forward to it immensely. Sun Mar 31 01:02:33 -0800 2002 1560479 0 Gayla 8 1560605 Could you find out if she's related to the literary Trillings and let me know? I'd be ever so grateful. Of course it was the Seven Molés. Sun Mar 31 03:24:49 -0800 2002 1560598 0 John Whiting 9 1560621 If I get a chance to ask, I will. It will be a small class - no more than 16 people - so the opportunity may arise. Sun Mar 31 12:24:22 -0800 2002 1560605 0 Gayla 6 1560606 "I'd be interested in going back and reading that thread. If you can provide me with the link, or at least with the title of the tread and which board it was on I would be very appreciative." It was this board, back around March 8th. Sun Mar 31 03:27:48 -0800 2002 1560454 0 John Whiting 4 1560485 "Mexican food in Chicago was too much of an oxymoron for them" That's funny because Chicago is a GREAT town for Mexican food, better than San Francisco in my opinion. Chicago was a major destination city for immigrating Mexicans as early as the '60s. Plus, Bayless has his two restaurants, he's been hiring staff from Mexico for years and some of those people have gone on to open their own restaurants. Anyway, below is a link to photos of our vacation in Chicago including dinner at Topolobampo, lunch at Frontera Grill and lunch at Chilpancingo. Link: http://www.michaelandrochellessite.com/photos/chicago/viewer.html?TopicID=topolo Fri Mar 29 12:11:39 -0800 2002 1560440 0 Rochelle McCune 5 1560491 If there's anything I hate, it's strangers' holiday snapshops. So why did I just spend almost half an hour over yours? Perhaps it's because your food shots are so much more informative than what one sees in fashionable books and magazines - they show what the food actually looks like rather than some photographer's erotic dream. I took similarly detailed shots of our last visit to l'Astrance in Paris, which will be going into a write-up I haven't finished yet. Eventually it will be on my website. (below) Link: http://www.whitings-writings.com Fri Mar 29 13:01:21 -0800 2002 1560485 0 John Whiting 6 1560514 ahhh, John John John, I just took a peek at your site! Michael & I are going to Paris and Reims in September so I'll be combing it carefully soon. I haven't been to Paris for 20 years and Michael has only been there as a cab ride from the train to the airport so we are really looking forward to a serious food pilgramage. Michael's only goal is to eat foie gras every day and avoid as many museums as he can. I've selected the vacation slogan "Champagne - It's what's for dinner." FYI - We have a ton of photos from meals in SF that we haven't put up yet so I understand that a chowhound's work is never done but dammit, I wanna see the l'Astrance photos. Fri Mar 29 15:51:47 -0800 2002 1560491 0 Rochelle McCune 5 1560494 Hi Rochelle Believe it or not, I actually stumbled upon your web site with your trip photos a couple of months ago when I was following a link from a non-Chowhound site!! I checked out quite a few of the restaurants you visited and was wishing that my computer would download the photos much quicker than it could. I hated having to wait to see them. I was even more impressed by the stamina you and your husband had to eat your way through so many restaurants. I'm actually fairly knowledgable about immigration patterns having grown up in a boarder town, having done graduate work at UCLA in Latin American Studies :-), and from having had many, many Mexican employees working for me over the years. I'd agree with you that my companions at the NRA were clueless about the quality and availability of good Mexican food in Chicago. But I was outvoted 11 to 1 and we ended up going for what turned out to be a rather forgetable Italian meal. I was living in S.F. at the time and could have gotten better for less at home. Fri Mar 29 13:28:12 -0800 2002 1560485 0 Gayla 6 1560497 Yes indeed, the technical demands of this site take no hostages! I get the full-size pictures fast with Windows XP and an ADSL line, but I can imagine an elderly computer allowing you time to go out for a beer. Fri Mar 29 13:47:22 -0800 2002 1560494 0 John Whiting 6 1560512 My god, it was HELL! ;-) I was sooo mad when I started to punk out. It seemed so reasonable - 2 meals a day - but after the 4 or 5th day, I just couldn't finish any meals and we cancelled a couple of meals at the end of the trip. Sooo sad. I will remember that vacation for the rest of my life. We have something in common - I got my B.A. in Latin American Studies - University of Texas at Austin! Hmm, now you're got me curious about who's linking to our site, I'll have to look into it. Fri Mar 29 15:38:53 -0800 2002 1560494 0 Rochelle McCune 2 1560477 I have Diana Kennedy's 'The Cuisines of Mexico' and 'The Art of Mexican Cooking' at home, as well as 'Mexico: The Beautiful'. I can post one of the recipes if you are interested. Fri Mar 29 11:51:32 -0800 2002 1560432 0 sladeums 1 1560504 Here's a website for ya. Link: http://www.ramekins.com/mole/molenopool.html Fri Mar 29 14:22:45 -0800 2002 1560378 0 Chimayo Joe 1 1560595 Mole Poblano is the chocolate-based mole that is traditionally served with turkey. It was popularized by the Spanish, derived from the elaborate sauces that the indigenous people of Oaxaca called by the Aztec name, molli. In addition to HRH Diana Kennedy's books, Zarela Martinez' book, _The Food and Life of Oaxaca_ has an excellent section on the "Seven Moles of Oaxaca" with recipes, most of which I've made with great success. The seven are: mole amarillo (yellow), mole coloradito (reddish), mole rojo (red), mole verde (green), mole negro (black--this is the richest with chocolate), Chichilo (dark, but less rich than mole negro), and manchamantel (literally "stain the tablecloth"--it's a red mole with lots of fruit in it). Pipians, thickened with pumpkin seeds, are also moles. Cooks in Mexico have access to excellent mole pastes that can be purchased and then thinned at home with stock or tomato sauce. On my last visit to L.A., I was able to buy mole negro paste and mole rojo paste at Guelaguetza, a Oaxacan restaurant. They lasted for months in my refrigerator, and provided the basis for many delicious meals. Mole negro is wonderful over chicken enchiladas or roasted, stewed or grilled chicken. I once ate excellent shrimp enchiladas with mole negro at La Serenata Gourmet in W.L.A. Mole Verde is best with pork or chicken. Manchamantel is also made with stewed pork or chicken--usually with chunks of pineapple in it. On the rare occasions that I make mole negro de Oaxaca from scratch, I don't use the Mexican chocolate that is typically available in Latin markets--it's meant for making hot chocolate and desserts--it's much too sweet and grainy for my taste. I use good quality unsweetened chocolate, like ScharffenBerger, and canela (Mexican cinnamon) instead. The fruits that go into the mole--raisins and prunes plumped in sherry, and ripe plantain add all the sweetness that's needed. Sat Mar 30 22:38:56 -0800 2002 1560378 0 zora 2 1560604 In Mexico, little hunks of concentrated unsweetened chocolate can be bought, hard as hockey pucks. These, I am told, are made principally for dedicated gringo foodies; the native population scarcely use them any more. Sun Mar 31 03:21:21 -0800 2002 1560595 0 John Whiting