288469 Mon Feb 11 11:26:09 -0800 2002 7 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1556605 Is there a difference? Did there used to be? Thanks. Mon Feb 11 11:26:09 -0800 2002 0 Nomi Lubin 1 1556627 My experience is they are one and the same. In the French Carib, I have always heard them called by the former and never the latter. Anytime I have eaten them the dough surrounding the chocolate, seemed exactly like a croissant. Mon Feb 11 15:02:22 -0800 2002 1556605 0 Jambalaya 2 1556641 In English Bread and Yeast Cookery, Elizabeth David gives a recipe for pain au chocolate which is made with bread dough, not croissant dough. According to her, this is the original and using croissant dough is a regrettable modern decadence. In any case, her recipe is really great (as is the book.) As she says, chocolate is rich enough that it doesn't need a rich dough. I thought the recipe sounded odd when I first read it but now it's one of my favorite things. Mon Feb 11 17:44:56 -0800 2002 1556627 0 linda 1 1556667 When I first started traveling to France about 14 years ago, the pastry casing around the chocolate 'baton' in a pain au chocolat was more breadlike, less flaky than today's croissant dough - which makes sense because the name literally means 'pain au chocolat'. I have also been told that croissants themselves were originally more breadlike, and that the flaky pastry came about in the early 1800s. Over time the seem to have evolved (or devolved depending on how you look at it). Today I find all manner of shapes and consistencies, including flakier croissants with the same bar of chocolate in them. I don't know whether there has been a loosening of the definition or change in recipe, but I do notice that the quality of croissants and pains au chocolats used to be a lot higher - and uniformly so - and I think many French bakeries - dare I say it - are getting really lazy and sloppy. The chocolate sometimes tastes stale, and the casing is soggy, oily or generally without flavour. But maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety. I'm sure a baker will have an explanation about the origins or the authenticity of croissants & pains au chocolat, but as for croissants, I have been told that they originated in Budapest, in the mid 1600s, when the Turks attempted to storm the city by digging under the walls at night. The only people who were awake were the bakers, and when they heard the noise, they alerted the city and thwarted the attack. As a reward, they were granted permission to sell a "premium product", and the croissant (crescent) was created as a defiant mockery of the Turkish flag. Tue Feb 12 06:48:59 -0800 2002 1556605 0 magnolia 1 1556713 The Cheeseboard in Berkeley makes pain au chocolat-like "chocolate things", which are a lot like what Magnolia describes. Bread dough in a sort of wrapped bun shape studded with chunks small and large of the most delicious, richest chocolate. Not at all croissant-y. Seriously addictive and a must for any chocolate fiend! Tue Feb 12 19:21:19 -0800 2002 1556605 0 foodfirst 1 1556720 Here's a pic I took in Montreal at a bakery on St. Catherine. Notice the the very chocolat-y baked in goodness :) Link: http://www.geocities.com/synistyr/chocolat.html Wed Feb 13 01:35:30 -0800 2002 1556605 0 synistyr 1 1556735 Wow, thanks for all these informative responses. I'm actually going to do a bit of my own research after the Valentine's rush is over at my local chocolaterie, Jacques Torres at 66 Water St. in the DUMBO section of Brooklyn, NY -- an absolutely transporting chocolate experience worth the detour if you're anywhere near the NY area. Check the Outer Borough board for recent enraptured effusions (some authored by moi). Jacques makes his pain au chocolat in the croissant style and they are heavenly, but I'll be curious to know his take on the whole "pain" question. Will report back. Wed Feb 13 11:16:13 -0800 2002 1556605 0 Nomi Lubin 1 1556890 They are one in the same. And perhaps you'll be surprised to hear that in the southwest of France, they're called "chocolatine"! Thu Feb 14 22:31:44 -0800 2002 1556605 0 Leslie Brenner