28831 Wed Apr 14 14:23:37 -0700 2004 45 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 121111 Is it just me or is the Cowgirl Creamery store in the Ferry Building full of rude, unhelpful counter folks? I have been in to that store several times and am always amazed that the people behind the counter seem perfectly content to slice cheese and ignore people. When you finally do get their attention, they are rude and act like you are bothering them. I recently found out that they also own the cheese store at California and Fillmore and am not surprised since the same attitude and lack of helpfulness pervades that one as well. Wed Apr 14 14:23:37 -0700 2004 0 dk2463 1 121114 That's really upsetting, but I had the complete opposite experience there about a month ago when I went in on a Tuesday at lunch to get some goat cheese. It looked pretty busy, and there seemed to be a couple people ignoring customers, but one cheerful young woman was really helpful to me - she gave me a taste of the cheese I was interested in, and was very friendly overall. I hate hate hate salesperson attitude, so I could understand if you never went back... Wed Apr 14 14:41:01 -0700 2004 121111 0 Alexandra 2 121132 Hmmm. I too have had only good experiences at CC in the FB. The oldest woman (sorry) in there is very helpful and knowledgable. Wed Apr 14 15:47:25 -0700 2004 121114 0 Jit 3 121230 i did not pick up on the attitude when they first opened. i noticed it after about the first month. almost a cocky attitude which sometimes happens with success. Fri Apr 16 08:02:17 -0700 2004 121132 0 originaljoe 1 121117 I generally agree with you, although there is one woman at the Ferry Building shop who is very helpful. Sorry, don't know her name. Short hair, fair, if I had to guess I'd say she was of Scandanavian descent. There was a show on Food TV recently (Dweezil and Lisa I think) where they visited the shop and she was the one who helped them. -Nick Wed Apr 14 14:44:55 -0700 2004 121111 0 nja 2 121268 Becki, that's her name. Always look for Becki. Wed Apr 28 12:19:44 -0700 2004 121117 0 nja 1 121122 Oh my God! I was just saying the same thing to my girlfriend last week. And it's not just one or two bad apples. They all seem to have an attitude of indifference to their customers. And why aren't there any men working there? Wed Apr 14 15:07:17 -0700 2004 121111 0 John 2 121125 I've seen at least one guy working there. I've had mixed experience with the salespeople--some very nice and helpful, others who can barely be bothered (because you ARE bothering them, apparently). Wed Apr 14 15:16:11 -0700 2004 121122 0 Morgan 2 121142 Here's their contact information from their website. I'd suggest an email to Peggy. Link: http://www.cowgirlcreamery.com/contact.html Wed Apr 14 16:40:15 -0700 2004 121122 0 Curtis 1 121139 Unfortunately, I have to somewhat concur with the overall assessment of my fellow 'hounds. Years ago when the company was just getting some notoriety, one of the principals, Patricia (I believe), treked out to our original Richmond frantoio to buy some pure olive oil to use in making some different cheeses. She was very friendly and invited us to visit their facility in Point Reyes Station. Back then, everyone that I had the opportunity to speak with was very friendly and quite informative. However, over the years and as the location has gotten more popular, I too have noted the general malaise that has seemed to overcome their salespeople. Still, I cannot resist stopping in to pick up a wonderful wheel of their Red Hawk and a baguette to go along with my sack of oysters and bottle(s) of crisp Sauvignon Blanc. During my last visit, about a month ago, I waited patiently to be helped although there was no one else wanting to buy cheese. Of the two salespeople, one was a younger woman with dark hair who seemed to be quite put off by my apparent distraction from her other duties. The other was a gentleman who ended up being very helpful and friendly, but only seemed to really open up once he had ascertained that I was "serious" about cheese and more than willing to take his suggestions into consideration. Now, choosing a really good cheese can be as intimidating as trying to select a wine, especially in shops where the variety is particularly broad. However, I consider it paramount to any truly successful cheese shop that the staff be friendly and helpful so as to lessen the intimidation factor, not to mention to help sell more cheeses. That being said, I think that the co-op structure of the Cheese Board is the ideal way to run such a business, but it also applies to the postive experiences I've had everywhere from Dean and Deluca in St. Helena to the Piedmont Grocery in my neighborhood. All this being said, I will likely continue to stop in with the hopes of avoiding such rude and unpleasant salespeople, which shouldn't be that difficult since they're very apt to avoid dealing with me as well. I do hate to think that such people are besmirching the otherwise good name of Cowgirl Cremery. If you haven't had the chance to sample their offerings, please don't let this deter you. Oh and in my annual plea, I will again pose the question as to why they won't bring back the Cowgirl Cremery ice cream? I did love it so. Ah well...this is an imperfect world, so I suppose it's unrealistic to expect a perfect fit with my tastes. a sante, Curtis Wed Apr 14 16:25:18 -0700 2004 121111 0 Curtis 2 121140 Actually, it was Peggy, that I first met back at the olive oil mill. Once again, she was extremely pleasant and I sincerely hope that she is still involved with the day to day activity of the company since I can't envision that she would tolerate such bad behaviour from a representative of CC. Wed Apr 14 16:36:45 -0700 2004 121139 0 Curtis 2 121141 I think I would have to agree with the "helpful and friendly only after they realize you're serious about cheese" observation. That attitude may come in part from the fact that they get a lot of tourists and "lookieloos" in the Ferry Building. Wed Apr 14 16:39:51 -0700 2004 121139 0 Ruth Lafler 1 121144 I have had nothing but great service there. I am polite to them and get polite, helpful responses in return. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. Imagine the parade of tourons and other generally unplesant, ignorant people coming in the all day long ("That cheese costs HOW much?!?"). With those as the typical customera, it is easy to make yourself stand out and get extra-special attention. Why not just do that instead of complaining about what's not being handed to you on a silver platter? "You shouldn't have to do that," you say. "They're customer service people, they should be nice to everyone, I should not have to be especially nice to them or show some secret-handshake of cheese knowledge just to get good service." Maybe. But it works. And if you good service in a tourist-infested place, it is a great trick. Just be glad you have access to their cheese. Be even more glad that you don't have to work there and put up with the nonsense from their typical customers and the other complainers. Wed Apr 14 16:49:26 -0700 2004 121111 0 come on 2 121147 So staff expressing frustration with the attitude of customers is okay, but vice versa is not? Wed Apr 14 17:19:19 -0700 2004 121144 0 nja 2 121150 I could not disagree with you more strongly about the importance of polite, friendly customer service to any successful business, let alone one that charges $20-30/lb for a product that needs to be tasted to be appreciated. The people who run the Cheese Board (or XOX Truffles) clearly understand this. San Francisco should be so lucky to have one mall that is "tourist infested." Wed Apr 14 17:44:12 -0700 2004 121144 0 Windy 3 121156 In the more than dozen times that I've purchased cheese from CC, I've only once or twice received friendly service. Friendly, no, but generally helpful, yes. If you make an effort to ask questions -- especially ones that show you have some knowledge of cheese, as Ruth and Curtis said below -- they will make recommendations, etc. But they're never especially helpful. I also agree that the staff tends to be reluctant to say "Can I help you?" to waiting customers. Contrast this, as Windy suggests, to the Cheeseboard, where the staff is just as harried as that of CC, and it's clear that CC could use an attitude upgrade. Then again, shopping in Berkeley is quite a different experience than shopping at Ferry Building. Regardless, I'm not going to stop going at CC. They're not outright rude and, damn, it's convenient to get delicious, if overpriced, cheese downtown. Wed Apr 14 18:12:46 -0700 2004 121150 0 Missy P. 4 121175 One distinct difference about the Cheeseboard is that it's a collective. Ownership affects attitude. I can't imagine what it's like to try and hire someone these days. Wages, benefits, hours, sales. Unless you're well-trained and passionate about something, who knows what happens when you're on the floor? I love the selection, so I'll just keep at it. Thu Apr 15 00:33:35 -0700 2004 121156 0 meta 3 121177 If folks are interested in the positive attitude of the Cheeseboard (and how a collective fosters this),they might pick up a copy of their recently published cookbook, in which workers talk about their experience (my only cool reception at the Cheeseboard came around a request for English cheese for a Boxing Day party--but when you're into English food, you get used to [misplaced] derision [smile]). Thu Apr 15 02:02:00 -0700 2004 121150 0 anniebananie 2 121159 Actually, my recent experience was out in Point Reyes on a rainy Sunday afternoon, wherein I was the only patron at the counter to two salespersons. I worked for some time in the food industry organizing everything from private tours to tastings and lectures about California olive oil. I also helped to start the retail outlet for the frantoio. While it was certainly not uncommon to find uninformed tourists, especially at winery events, it was NEVER the case that any of our employees gave anything but friendly and helpful service, even to those who were not buying. I think Windy, Ruth and Nick's point is that when you choose the open and operate a retail business, good customer service is paramount to its success. Too often do otherwise good businesses, i.e. those with quality products, confuse customer service as being a remedy to be administered in the face of dissatisfied clientele, as opposed to a minimum standard of care that can go a long way to building up good will and brand loyalty before "damage control" is ever needed. As I also pointed out in my correspondence to the company, while you and I are certainly under the penumbra of customers who are tolerant and willing to concede better customer service in order to get a superior product, there is also a considerable segement of existing and, more importantly, potential clientele whose threshold is considerably lower. It is this latter market segment that concerns me, for without it no business can succeed in the long run. I would think that at least part of the ideology and mission of Cowgirl Creamery, which as always championed the local community, is to provide good cheese to every day people, not merely an elite segment of gourmets or self-professed culinary sophisticates (IMHO). a sante, Curtis Wed Apr 14 18:49:59 -0700 2004 121144 0 Curtis 3 121225 This is very well articulated as a marketing philosophy. I was thinking about it yesterday leaving Washington Mutual bank, which reaches out to prospective customers by not charging for the use of its ATMs, the equivalent of a taste of possibly delicious cheese. You can't buy that kind of good will or publicity, and people who have a positive experience often reward your business and responsiveness with loyalty. Incidentally, my favorite place growing up was the cheese store. Curtis, thank you for posting the friendly response from the CC store. Thu Apr 15 22:53:08 -0700 2004 121159 0 Windy 2 121165 Well, I'm a local, and I've been there when it's been busy and when it's been dead quiet. I normally buy quite a bit ($85 of different kinds of cheese on one vist, when they were nice enough to give me a canvas carrying bag). I am always very polite and friendly, and I do ask questions. But the last two times when I bought some mascarpone and other things from the cold case that required an employee to spoon it into containers, I definitely got the feeling I was putting her to what she considered too much work. Every time she said "Anything else?" I could tell she was hoping I would say no. I felt guilty and frankly didn't buy as much as I had planned. That said, they have a great selection of Neals Yard cheeses, so I won't stop going there. And I have had experiences with very good people too. But I don't enjoy having to wonder which sort of attitude I'm going to get when I go. Wed Apr 14 20:41:48 -0700 2004 121144 0 Morgan 1 121148 I have been to both the Ferry Building and Fillmore street locations many times and have always gotten nothing but extremely helpful service and suggestions. I always express that I'm very interested in the story behind the cheeses, and I always walk out satisfied (and usually with a ton of cheese.) I'm sorry your experience wasn't the same. I would also suggest going at off hours, because I wouldn't touch the Ferry Building location with a ten foot pole otherwise. Wed Apr 14 17:20:37 -0700 2004 121111 0 vespaloon 1 121158 If you're there during the Tuesday Farmer's Market (maybe others, not sure), patronize the Spring Hill cheese booth instead-- they make some delicious cheddars, Jack, quark, dry cheeses, etc. Courteous and generous with samples. Wed Apr 14 18:33:15 -0700 2004 121111 0 Margot 1 121160 I've had very mixed experiences there, regardless of the time of day or week I visit. Most of the people are extremely helpful, one of my favorite people there seems extremely shy (she "talks into the cheese" as my dad says), but is also extremely informative. However, the negative experiences do stand out, because the arrogance and unhelpfulness of a few employees is more extreme than I'm used to in SF. One Sunday, I visited to buy more of a cheese I had purchased two days previously, but forgot the name. There were very few customers at the counter and I was able to describe the cheese in decent detail (country of origin, texture, type of milk and location on the counter). The woman who "helped" snipped that the cheeses are moved all the time and she had no idea what I was looking for. I got a curt response when I asked if she might be able to narrow it down a little with the information I provided, and I gave up. Why work through her attitude on a beautiful Sunday? I've worked in plenty of public-facing environments. I don't buy that they deserve our sympathy and understanding because they deal with the unwashed masses, or at least the less food obsessed masses. All jobs have downsides, and there are far worse places to work. Wed Apr 14 19:18:04 -0700 2004 121111 0 amalia 2 121163 If the treat their regular customers like that, then all they'll have is the tourists and the curious. Maybe they don't realize there are lots of people who shop at the Ferry Building regularly. I patronized them for a few months until a cheesemonger opened half a block from my house. Great selection, no attitude. Maybe they should do what he does: he has a "frequent buyer" program which tracks all your purchases and gives you a discount when you've spent a certain amount. In your case, if he didn't remember what you bought, he could easily look it up on his computer. That really keeps the regulars coming back and builds a customer base. Wed Apr 14 20:33:28 -0700 2004 121160 0 Ruth Lafler 3 121166 That's a great suggestion, except that they seem a bit tech-challenged. Last time I asked for a receipt and the person had to write it out on one of those "receipt" books I haven't seen for years. Evidently the cash register doesn't print them (and one of the two registers wasn't even working). Wed Apr 14 20:43:57 -0700 2004 121163 0 Morgan 3 121171 That is so cool, Ruth! Is this one of the new places in Alameda? What's it called? I would love to be an official frequent cheese buyer. Thu Apr 15 00:00:34 -0700 2004 121163 0 Missy P. 4 121172 Yup. Farmstead Cheeses and Wines in the Alameda Marketplace on Park Street. Link: http://www.alamedamarketplace.com/fcw.html Thu Apr 15 00:15:30 -0700 2004 121171 0 Ruth Lafler 5 121227 I took a friend to Farmstead Cheeses and found the proprietor to be informative and delightful. I only hope Alameda can support him. Thu Apr 15 23:57:24 -0700 2004 121172 0 Lisa C 6 121233 Yeah, they're great people with a great little store. I know my family personally is doing all we can to help them succeed (my sister actually had to put her husband on a cheese "quota" because she was worried about the sudden increase in his cheese consumption). Fortunately, every time I inquire I hear that business has been good, at least for a business still in the start-up phase. BTW, I was talking to the proprietor yesterday, and he told me he's having a Riesling tasting Saturday, 2-5, with one of the leading Riesling importers in the country. Cost is nominal (he found out he can't legally do it free). It would be nice if some other hounds could come out to support this new enterprise. Farmstead Cheeses and Wines 1650 Park St. (in the Alameda Marketplace) Fri Apr 16 15:32:14 -0700 2004 121227 0 Ruth Lafler 1 121192 Sad to say, another bad taste in your mouth experience here. My mother and I went 2 months ago to do some shopping. She is in her late 60's and still works part time in a gift shop. She doesn't talk fast and is easily intimdated, being of another generation than many of us. Anyway, the counter woman decided my mother wasn't responding fast enough, or deciding fast enough and positively snarled at her. While I realize this is the go-go Bay Area, time is money, c'mon, c'mon, lets get going.......by no means was my mother taking an inappropriate amount of time and had some legitimate questions about the products. If people don't like working with the public, and don't like working with people who can't meet their high standards, well, they should do some other work where they have no contact with the public. Obvious, isn't it? The owner should be ashamed of herself, letting her counter help treat customers so shabbily. And someday, that arrogance is going to kill them - there will be enough people like me who will refuse to shop there and someone really good will eat them alive as a business. I can hardly wait. Thu Apr 15 13:14:49 -0700 2004 121111 0 thekidssherpa 1 121198 I was somewhat buoyed by the prompt response I received from Peggy at CC. Here is her sincere reply to my email forwarding a link to this message thread. "Thank you Curtis, I am so sad to read all those complaints, as customer service is what our retail stores are suppose to be all about. I hope that you will give us another try. Believe me I will make sure that every one at the shops sees that chat from chowhounds. Thanks again, Sincerely, Peg Smith" I will be very interested to see how they deal with this emerging problem, but if you have had a particularly bad experience, then you should also contact her to let her know that you are genuinely concerned or put off. Thu Apr 15 13:32:00 -0700 2004 121111 0 Curtis 2 121206 I also cc'd the manager of the Ferry Building location who just responded. It appears that this is being dealt with seriously. I truly hope that everything works out. Here is her email: ___________________________ Dear Curtis, My name is Becki Birkmann, and I am one of the managers of the Cowgirl Creamery shop at the Ferry Building. I wanted to thank you for alerting us to the comments on the Chowhound discussion boards and let you know that I am actively working with Peggy Smith and the entire Cowgirl staff to remedy those negative experiences. It is my sincere goal to ensure that every cheese buying experience is a pleasant one. My apologies go out to those who have had a less than warm reception here at the Cowgirl Creamery. I hope you will give us another chance. Sincerely, Becki Birkmann Retail Coordinator _____________________________ Thu Apr 15 15:21:58 -0700 2004 121198 0 Curtis 2 121252 I also got the same response (pretty much the exact same wording). We'll see if they really do anything about it.....I am sending in a couple of "spys" to see if things have gotten any better. Mon Apr 19 15:02:04 -0700 2004 121198 0 dk2463 3 121253 I was there this weekend and they were all very friendly. Mon Apr 19 15:19:41 -0700 2004 121252 0 nja 3 121255 "We'll see if they really do anything about it..." You know, if you're really determined to see the worst of it and disdain whether anything will change, you're bound to be disappointed. I was in again today and I have to say that the three women who were there were teasing each other, having a great time, and interacting really well with the customers. The woman who helped me this afternoon was ecstatic that I had been to Neals Yard Dairy in London and even introduced me to a few local cheeses I had never tasted. I think it's often the case that the bad speaks louder than the good. People are so quick to send emails, letters, etc. when they've had a bad experience but not so much when they've had a good experience. Not exactly fair, is it? Tue Apr 20 01:08:05 -0700 2004 121252 0 lembit 4 121258 ""We'll see if they really do anything about it..." You know, if you're really determined to see the worst of it and disdain whether anything will change, you're bound to be disappointed." I will be one of the happiest people here if there is even the slighest change in the poor attitude I have consistently seen there. Not sure why you think that just because I said I hope they fix it that I am "determined to see the worst", that doesn't really make any sense. Since I started the thread, it should be obvious that I care about seeing this improve or I wouldn't have mentioned anything at all. I simply hope that CC knows that a series of emails and letters promising change is not enough to fix this problem, they really need to address it as they've promised and that I'll be back to their stores to see if it has. Tue Apr 20 12:42:23 -0700 2004 121255 0 dk2463 5 121259 I guess I just saw more doom and gloom in your reponse than you obviously intended. My apologies. I was also thinking of other responses here who seem to express hope to watch "them" go down in flames or be eaten alive by a better business. Tue Apr 20 13:17:40 -0700 2004 121258 0 lembit 1 121202 My customer service experiences at CC have been uniformly unacceptable. I rarely even got such surly service when I lived in Manhattan. I think CC should require each of their counterpersons to spend 1/2 an hour in the Cheese Board watching their customer service. Even at the peak hours, the Cheese Board people seem to have fun doing what they do. I also can't remember whether their counterpersons wear name tags. If not, they should. Then I would propose everyone here note the name of surly staffers and forward it to the company. Thu Apr 15 14:05:52 -0700 2004 121111 0 Wally Ball 2 121220 Hiya Wally- Please do not change the subject of a thread if the discussion topic has not changed. If you do, it makes it difficult for Chowhounds who are using Hotposts to follow the thread. Thanks, now back to the chow. Thu Apr 15 20:39:20 -0700 2004 121202 2 The Chowhound Team 1 121212 Yep, glad someone pointed it out -- I have encountered the same attitude there. I've just stopped going -- there are plenty of other cheese shops I can go to where I won't be treated rudely. Why support that? Thu Apr 15 17:37:02 -0700 2004 121111 0 mbrent 1 121228 I too got a response to my email, and Peggy sounded very concerned about this issue. I have no doubt she will be following through w/ her staff to make the changes needed for the store to be warm and inviting for shoppers. One can only hope! Thu Apr 15 23:57:32 -0700 2004 121111 0 Sarah 1 121234 I was just down at the Ferry Building and walked by Cowgirl Creamery, where I saw four eager clerks being very friendly and helpful to the customers. Fri Apr 16 16:44:52 -0700 2004 121111 0 Morgan 2 121240 I was in Point Reyes today about 2p.m. One customer was being helped, two other counterpersons were ignoring the other three customers in the place. i wanted some fabulous California cheese for my brother-in-law visiting from Boston, but after no help and being brushed off, we left without buying anything. Fri Apr 16 23:45:57 -0700 2004 121234 0 tiviander 1 121246 I just wanted to point out that the attitude of at least one young woman at Cowgirl was proclaimed "delightful" by Tom Sietsema, the restaurant critic at the Washington Post. On a Saturday, no less. For my personal experience, every time I've gone -- busy Saturdays or dead weekdays -- I've noted exuberant, happy, helpful cheesemongers. I think if one is demanding and rude themselves -- not that I'm saying any of you are -- that might be a quality one picks up in them. Link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A41771-2004Apr1.html Sun Apr 18 16:03:14 -0700 2004 121111 0 lembit 1 121256 For what it is worth, I was at the Ferry location about a month ago. Friday night, very close, quite possibly after closing. Terrific chat with a very helpful person. Tue Apr 20 01:09:00 -0700 2004 121111 0 JudiAU