288115 Thu Dec 20 15:36:21 -0800 2001 10 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1553232 Not sure if this belongs here or in Not About Food - but had to mention what arrived in my mail today. As a "Special Gift From Verizon" for using its phone service, I received a Zagat Survey of Downtown New York City! How shocking to get anything 'free' from a phone company. Of course, a lifetime subscription to ChowNews would have been "in better taste!" :-) Thu Dec 20 15:36:21 -0800 2001 0 AliceJ 1 1553240 You probably unwittingly signed up for a new calling plan by accepting the "free" gift. Thu Dec 20 18:00:46 -0800 2001 1553232 0 2chez mike 1 1553245 Wonderful!!! Now if the Zagats would only go out to eat once in a while, you might get some first-hand evaluations. Zagat's may be the biggest fraud short of Enron. Thu Dec 20 21:56:13 -0800 2001 1553232 0 Jim H. 2 1553250 From what I've always heard Tim Zagat is out eating at like 5 places a night being a pain in the ass at all of them. I don't think that they are a fraud by any means though. It's a survey. They are getting opinions not giving there own. It's a fine tool when you get it free with lunch like I did at G. Tavern and get to laugh at all of the cliches in the quotes from surveyors. Fri Dec 21 00:55:13 -0800 2001 1553245 0 iron frank 3 1553274 Yes! Zagat is a great joke. And they're laughing all the way to the bank. Fri Dec 21 11:53:13 -0800 2001 1553250 0 2chez mike 2 1553275 Well, I think that either you don't understand the concept of the Zagat guide, or are just being deliberately petulant. Zagats are NOT for people who want first-hand recommendations, but they are very useful directories with pretty accurate indications of the current likes and dislikes of the average diner in the relevant city. They are invaluable for visitors and for people whose tastes run towards the mainstream, as well as for those cases when you quickly need to find a place in a particular neighborhood serving a particular cuisine, when you are in an unfamiliar area and want a quick bite, when you want a place with, say, a fireplace for brunch and don't have the time to wait for Chowhound recommendations, etc., etc. If you consider yourself a "serious eater" (as most of us probably do), they are a great *complement* to other more elite (in the good sense of the word) sources of information, such as Chowhound. See, the Zagat guides are not trying to be what you (seem to) want them to be - they are not Chhowhound. The ratings are provided by thousands of diners of all creeds, and in that sense they are more "reliable" and democratic than any first-person guide. And they are definitely a huge boon to restaurateurs large and small just because people are using them, and not just to follow silly trends. Sermon over! Fri Dec 21 11:54:50 -0800 2001 1553245 0 Katerina 3 1553310 In other words, Zagat is useless. Sat Dec 22 02:50:33 -0800 2001 1553275 0 2chez mike 4 1553462 No it is NOT useless, as evidenced by the numbers (thousands) of people who send in their questionnaires. By the way, Zagat restaurant guides are NOT very profitable because you get yours free if you send in the questionnaire, and there are no ads. They make money by selling "custom" guides to companies, not by doing the surveys. These paranoid comments about "laughing all the way to the bank" are really quite ridiculous. You seem to know very little about what the Zagat is and how it does what it does, but are certainly keen on slamming them. Well, if it makes you happy... Oh yes. I don't work for Zagat, never have, and probably never will, but in my first few years in NYC they did help expand my horizons quite a bit. And yes I got them for FREE. Thu Dec 27 16:30:54 -0800 2001 1553310 0 Katerina 1 1553266 yeah I got one too. Was reading through it and wished Jim and team had the resources to do their own. no excluding Jim's book. I'm not crazy about the style but I think its a useful format which is probably why its so popoular. Fri Dec 21 10:40:49 -0800 2001 1553232 0 SLAP 1 1553276 ya know, i'm a nyc verizon customer and i haven't gotten a free zagat's. not that i'm chomping at the bit to pour over the recommendations. i don't think i once cracked the copy westlaw gave me a couple years ago (now there's a good business partnership--zagat's and westlaw). but i do wonder if it's some kind of demographic discrimination. because i live in queens i couldn't possibly be interested or "classy" enough to make use of a lower manhattan zagat's? Fri Dec 21 11:59:33 -0800 2001 1553232 0 lacy 2 1553323 "ya know, i'm a nyc verizon customer and i haven't gotten a free zagat's.....not that i'm chomping at the bit to pour over the recommendations......but i do wonder if it's some kind of demographic discrimination. because i live in queens i couldn't possibly be interested or "classy" enough to make use of a lower manhattan zagat's?" Lacy, if you have the time, why not literally "call Verizon on that" and see how they 'extricate' themselves from this (seemingly) demographic discrimination. FYI, I am on the Upper West Side -- and I hate being on the phone (lol) - so I am NOT a major customer. The only thing of distinction I did this year was to switch from AT&T to Verizon over the summer. The Zagat guide includes a printed message from Verizon that explains that they are sending this to customers because lower Manhattan "is our neighborhood...it's where Verizon offers service and where many of us live and work." They then go on to say that they hope customers will give this area a "much-needed boost" after the 9/11 tragedy. Anyway, I'd sure be curious to know who was marketed for these guides. Sat Dec 22 15:40:24 -0800 2001 1553276 0 AliceJ