287986 Thu Nov 29 16:11:19 -0800 2001 14 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1552054 Okay, so I am getting married in the summer and with that comes a once in a lifetime (?) chance to get the home appliances, stemware, and cookware that I have been drooling over and never could afford. Of course, the venues for procuring this stuff are fairly standard (and I am NOT interested in registering all over the place). We are looking at Williams Sonoma, Crate and Barrel, and Bloomingdales. I am seeking chowhound opinion about several items: STEMWARE I want to register for some of the delicious Riedel crystal, available at Williams-Sonoma, but should I get the Burgundy, the Bordeaux, or the Chardonnay. Any other suggestions? APPLIANCES: the only thing my fiancé wants is an espresso maker. What kind? What kind available at these venues? And what about the tried and true kitchen aid? Is there that much difference between models? I know what pots and pans and knives to get. That is easy (Wustoff and All-Clad), but there are so many choices. Any suggestions? Thu Nov 29 16:11:19 -0800 2001 0 Carrot 1 1552057 Appliances: I suggest some very handy small kitchen appliances: 1. An Aroma rice-cooker (I can think of two couple to whom I gave this item who thanked me for saving their marriages!) 2. A Kuhn-Rikon pressure cooker 3. If breadmakers are your thing, go for a Zojirushi. As for pots and pans, you can actually use fewer than you might think; if you get every size variation, you'll find you simply waste them. Bigger (but not giant - fit them to a stove top) is often more useful (except, of course, for omelet pans) in more situations. All Clad is lovely (Master Chef line is easiest to maintain, I find), but it's also good to have at least one largish (5 qt plus) Le Creuset pot/dutch oven. As for knives, Wusthoff is also great, but don't miss this opportunity for a couple of good Global knives while you're at it. As for crystal, I would go for the line that seems least likely to chip at the rim (and, if none suits your fancy that qualifies, there's nothing wrong with good old glass; it might save you tears). And, yes, a trusty KitchenAid standup mixer is worthy. Thu Nov 29 16:33:33 -0800 2001 1552054 0 Karl S. 1 1552061 As for espresso makers, there was a pretty good discussion on this board around the first week in May. I just tried to find the link but I got a 404 error. As I recall, my contribution was to suggest that people read Jeffrey Steingarten's exhaustive review of machines in an issue of Vogue from last year. BTW, I second the vote on suggesting that you look at Global knives. Thu Nov 29 17:25:24 -0800 2001 1552054 0 Bob Brooks 1 1552065 I am recently married myself and enjoyed the registration process immensely. To be honest, the only reason I started cooking was that I fell in love with Kitchen Hardware - then I felt obligated to use it. I'm relatively new at this, but I'll be happy to put my 2 cents in. General - How big is your kitchen? Be sure you have a spot for whatever you pick out, as all the pots, pans and appliances really add up. Registration - We used Crate and Barrel and they were great. Sevice and selection were good, and their catalog/web system made things easy on those without easy access to a local store. We also registered at a department store for linens and silver. One word - painful. Stemware - We opted for casual/whimsical barware and limited stemware, we just don't use the stemware often enough to justify it. We did get about 8 pairs of water and Chardonnay glasses, which was enough for our formal dinners. We use the barware every day and have several designs that we rotate through as the mood strikes. Appliances - How much space do you have and what will you use? I don't have room for the Kitchen Aid, so I opted for a hand mixer, but if you bake a lot, find the space. I use our rice cooker pretty frequently, coffee maker almost daily, and juicer not at all. We do have a Kitchen Aid food processor that is a lifesaver on big jobs, but often goes unused since it is faster for me to chop by hand than to use and clean the Kitchen Aid. Sorry, I can't give you any guidance on an espresso maker. General - We got Oxo Good Grips utensils and love them. If you are getting stainless, consider at least one small nonstick pan for omelettes etc. If you are getting nonstick, be sure to get at least one pan you can use with your broiler. Will you do stovetop frying? If so, deep cast iron frypans are excellent. Finally - Have fun and GOOD LUCK!! I hope your marriage (and your cooking) are as satisfying as mine have been. Russell H. Thu Nov 29 17:45:45 -0800 2001 1552054 0 RussellH 1 1552081 Lucky you! Marriage is great. So is getting good stuff. Both should last a long, long time. Ask yourselves: what stuff do you really think you'll USE? If you never drink red wine, and probably won't serve it, don't bother with glasses that will only work for one kind of red. (Yeah, there are "all-purpose," but they're really not.) Likewise, if you cannot imagine poaching a fish, don't bother with a fish poacher no matter how cool it looks. You might look into the bigger All-Clad sets, which have pretty much whatever basics you might need, plus the dome-cover Chef's pan (I love mine; I use it as a wok, to braise, to deep fry -- very versatile.) Make sure to get a steamer insert, too. But again, think about the cooking you really do, and what you are most likely to do in the future. (By the way, all this applies to BOTH of you.) Espresso: get as close to a professional machine as you can. The usual electric-powered home machines just don't build up enough pressure. I've heard good things about Francis Francis, which looks pretty weird and wild. Knives: test out a few for how they feel in your hand. And, again, think about what you really expect to do. Good basics are an 8" or 10" chefs, a paring knife, and a bread knife. Maybes include a slicer, a boning knife, a cleaver. KitchenAid: I love my mixer, a 5-quart Professional. I've got tons of attachments, most of which I've never used. The grinder is definitely necessary, to make your own ground meat. The main considerations for which to get are:1) what quantities might you mix; and 2) what materials? If you make bread or cookie dough, get a big one with as much horsepower as possible. If you just whip cream or egg whites, and figure you'll just stick with that or single-layer cakes, smaller if fine. Other appliances: I bought a KA food processor for work, with a mini-bowl and blade as well -- quite handy. A good bar blender -- just 2 speeds, but really strong motor -- is also good to have. I see that Williams Sonoma is offering a stick blender for $99, which strikes me as absolutely ludicrous, since you can get a decent Braun for $25. One more item we have trouble living without is a warming tray: great for heating the plates and then keeping food and especially the teapot warm for seconds. Thu Nov 29 22:29:34 -0800 2001 1552054 0 Suzanne Fass 1 1552090 First: check Cook's Illustrated, Consumers' Report which discuss some of the kitchen tools you'll want. Also, be sure to handle all these things before putting them on the list. See how they feel in your hand - particularly knives. I've had three very useful tools for 30 or more years that I highly recommend: None of them owe me anything. I would recommend you stay with basic colors that you will not tire of and which will match any color scheme as you will change you kitchen decor before you change these. Mixer: go for the big Kitchenaid if you do any baking, want to grind you own meats, roll your own pasta (useful attachments). It's also good for mashed potatoes (which your cuisinart can't do), whipped cream, pie crusts, etc. (I've never had any problem with it; my smaller, older, inherited tilt-back KA has had a broken glass bowl that I replaced with stainless and one very low cost repair to the bushings,motor, or somesuch). I prefer the big one, even for small jobs. Food Processor: Good for tearless onion chopping, among other things. Wonderful for slicing and chopping large amounts of onions, cucumbers for salad, etc. My advice again is to get a big one. I have a Cuisinart that has never given me any trouble other than having had to replace the workbowl a few years ago. The KitchenAid has the advantage of an insert small bowl for such things as chopping garlic, making small amounts of pastes, chopping parsley. Though honestly, I find my large bowl works fine on relatively small amounts. If you're going to get a blender, go for the Waring. It's the Energizer Bunny. After 30 years I've replaced the gasket on the bottom twice (if memory serves, they sent it to me free) and the rubbery lid hardened a bit, so I bought a replacement. For cookware: STAY AWAY FROM SETS would be my #1 piece of advice. BIGGER is often BETTER would be my #2 piece of advice WIDER NOT DEEP would be my #3 piece of advice (i.e., more pans than pots) Tools to sharpen knives (food for another thread). If you plan to do a lot of slow cooking (braising, soups, stews, casseroles, etc) Le Creuset is my top pick. They combine the advantages of cast iron with the cleanup ease of stainless. As a matter of fact, I find they clean easier than stainless. I like their fying pans too for anything that takes slow cooking such as caramelizing onions, etc. Their guarantee can't be beat: 100+ years and they ask for no proof of purchase. Before buying my kids some LC for their kitchens, I shipped back all my dinged LC and they replaced about 6-7 pieces cheerfully without asking for any pedigree. Their only disadvantages: this cookware does not respond quickly to heat change (which is why they provide such steady heat); they are heavy; they are pricy. Be sure to specify on the retgistry what colors you want. I find the Cuisinart 5 1/2" stainless straight-sided pan a remarkably useful tool for a 1-2 person household. It is somewhat deeper than those of other lines and I can not only saute and fry in it, but I can make soups and stews, tomato sauce, etc. AND even make pasta. It is deep enough for that but wider than a soup pot or braiser and has more contact with the burner than they do. And of course, it's good for frying chicken, pork chops, etc. On the other hand, stay away from their slop sided pan. I have a Bougeat evasee (2.5 copper, stainless interior) that I'm fond of using for sauces and a host of miscellaneous uses. It's very responsive to heat changes. If it wasn't so heavy, I think I'd treat myself to a couple more sautepans in this combo. My no stick pan is a Bougeat on aluminum which I am happy with. But I doubt any of the registries you mentioned carry the Bougeat line. If you get copper, be careful to get 2.5 thickness. Also, I will not get any more tinned copper as I've had to retin my pots several times. If anyone every proves that old fashioned aluminum pans are not a health risk (it seems ambiguous), the thick restaurant pans are great to work with. I still pull out the 14"-er when doing duxelles or caramelizing large amounts of onions, etc. I have worked with caphalon, but don't like working on the dark surface, find them annoying to clean. I do use the large Caphalon roaster. If you will only roast an occasional chicken, get one of those splatter enamel on thin steel or "whatever." But if you are going to raost veggies or make gravy from drippings, go for a heavier weight such as the calphalon. I also use it as a bain marie. They claim a lifetime guarentee, but I've not tested it. My son has a 13" straight sided pan and loves it. I've recently acquired a couple AllClad pots and a sauteuse. For me they are a compromise. Handling is easier, as the LeCreuset and larger copper pieces are heavy for me to handle. They're more responsive than the LC, but less than the copper. In general I'm not as happy with their cooking qualities as those I've already mentioned except when steaming food or boiling it. They seem to me ok for pots, but not as good tools for particular uses as the LC and copper. The nature of compromise is that it is never entirely satisfactory. I've just learned that Viking puts out a very similar line (almost a design rip-off) that is supposed to be 7 ply construction. Perhaps that will work better. Not everything has to be expensive: One really cheap tool: aluminum foil to line the oven floor. Another: an inexpensive no-stick sheet pan to put under pies, casseroles, etc. to catch the spills before they hit the oven floor. A couple half sheet pans (both regular and non-stick) are remarkably useful. You can even do your chicken on it, not to mention baking everything from cookies and cakes to roasting squask and garlic. (A 1/4" sheet pan is also useful). Go for the flimsy tongs, they're more responsive. For less affluent friends: mouli grater, rasp (does nutmeg, garlic, ginger, and even small bits of hard cheese such as parmesan for pasta for 1-2, all in one--and leaves fingers intact). For frying, tarte tatin, plain ole cast iron is great and inexpensive. Pan cakes and grilling? cast iron is the best. And to my mind the best toast is made on a cast iron griddle, not in an electric "toaster" which merely dries the bread and browns the outside in an uninteresting uniform sort of way. Beautiful for grilled cheese. Another inexpensive item to list: a coffee grinder. If you get two, you can use one to grind spices. May I suggest that when you are filling in around what your friends/family give you, LC and AC both have outlets and LC has 1-2 times a year sales where you can get 40-60% off. If anyone knows of Bougeat or Mauvil outlets, please let me know. Fri Nov 30 00:37:19 -0800 2001 1552054 0 saucyknave 2 1552200 How could I have forgotten?? I've got some over 30 years old -- for a while, it was just about the ONLY cookware I had -- that's still going strong. Sure, the inside enamel is pretty thin by now, and my bigger casserole has a crack from when Co-hound dropped it, but it still works. Excellent suggestion. Sat Dec 01 12:20:43 -0800 2001 1552090 0 Suzanne Fass 1 1552092 Congratulations on your good fortune! Allow me to go against the grain of the other posters in some areas. DO register at Bloomingdale's. They are part of Federated Department Stores and are not only on-line but also the biggest department store holding company in the US, so your guests can go to their local Macy's etc. and access your registry. Rethink the Reidel crystal. It is very expensive and very beautiful but really designed for the wine snob who needs a different size glass for every style of wine. If you will be using your glasses at all many of them will be gone by the fifth anniversary anyway. Find a nice inexpensive crystal that you like and buy it yourself in dozens. You will really only need two sizes, the bigger one will be the red, the smaller the white. Flutes are nice too, as are water glasses if you can find them. I know you have your sights set on expensive pots, but please go to the stores with your cooking habits in mind (although these will change), most importantly really feel and handle each piece to see how it relates to you. It's not the pan, it's the cook that makes good food. Assemble a set from the pots you like as opposed to a specific "starter set" or only one specific manufacturer. I recently bought a small saucepan with lid at Marshall's for 9.99 that is a copy of my AllClad one and it really works the same for me. For your mixer make sure you get one where the mixer blade arm hinges up, the one with the bowl lever is a real pain. As I was in the tabletop business for many years I would suggest that you select some really special items in flatware and china for your guests to choose from. In my experience guests were less concerned with price than with whether they thought their gift would be considered "special". Most were dismayed by the "utilitarian" (unless they were also into that particular line!). I hope that I did not offend in any way (I don't know you after all), but all these items that you receive are going to be with you for a long time. Fri Nov 30 01:48:28 -0800 2001 1552054 0 sylvesterrussell 2 1552271 Thanks to all for such helpful suggestions. I successfully registered for many of the recommended items over the weekend at Williams-Sonoma (snobby and expensive, but actually a pleasant experience) and registered for a sampling of All-Clad, copper, and Le Creuest (I should say that we already have a few Le Creuset pans and are big fans, but I do want some sauce pans and the like that are a bit lighter.) Also registered for the biggest Kitchen-Aid and one of those cool looking Francis Francis espresso machines. Who knows if we will actually receive any of this stuff, but I can?t imagine another opportunity to possibly get these things! Also will round out our starter collection of Wustoff classic knives, because we like them AND they are available where we registered. We also registered for Reidel chardonnay and burgundy glasses. I can?t stand the fancy etched crystal (so expensive!) and they were not that much more expensive than the other available glasses. And signed up (that is what it feels like) for some plain sturdy Bodum glasses for other beverages. I am still going to register for some other things at Bloomingdales. I am curious about this info that people can buy things at Macy?s from the Bloomingdales registry. Do you know anymore about this? THANK YOU for the suggestions and confidence boost that I needed in making my selections! Carrot Mon Dec 03 16:22:52 -0800 2001 1552092 0 Carrot 3 1552275 I don't know what "other things" you're registering for, but this is a great opportunity to stock up on high-quality linens -- if you're not sleeping on high-thread count sheets, you'll be amazed at the difference. Bloomingdales, for example, carries the Fieldcrest Charisma line of 310-threadcount cotton sheets -- I love mine, they are among the favorite things I own. And you really can't have too many nice sets of sheets (at least if you hate laundry as much as I do!). Mon Dec 03 18:00:44 -0800 2001 1552271 0 Ruth Lafler 3 1552283 Congratulations, Carrot! BTW, my husband got his KitchenAid when I rounded up contributions from everyone on both sides of the family one Christmas. You never know, there's always the group gift! (Maybe you should drop a hint. . . ) Mon Dec 03 22:01:22 -0800 2001 1552271 0 LisaPizza 1 1552107 Hi Carrot -- Congrats on your upcoming wedding! We've had some very good responses in this thread already, but I figured I'd toss in my thoughts and try to address specifically the questions you posed. On wine glasses: I love Riedel stemware -- just perfect to give and get as a wedding gift. There are two ways to go with this: either get all of them in a shape that will be suitable for both whites and reds (like the chardonnay or the zinfandel shapes) or get specific types for different wines, maybe something like the Gewürztraminer (designed for sauvignon blanc types) and the Red Burgundy shape (big and round and impressive). Maybe also put on the list some inexpensive everyday glasses? Something simple for casual meals when you're drinking Citra in the big 1.5L bottle. On espresso machines: I've got a shiny stainless Saeco Classico that I got a great deal on at eBay. It's a fine machine that takes those newfangled espresso pods that make it really easy to make a decent cup of espresso. Seems to me that for a truly excellent cup you'll need to go to an espresso bar with an experienced barrista anyway, so the pod system works well enough for my home. The Francis Francis machines are absolutely gorgeous (looks like E.T. decided to live in the kitchen instead of the tool shed), but are really expensive. The chrome model runs more than $600 the last time I checked. Don't know how well these machines work, but they are so funky and hip that you catch the occasional glimpse of one in Jamie Oliver's kitchen on The Naked Chef. (No comments in this thread on what a "little git" he is, please!) Whatever brand you decide on, Carrot, ask for a demo of the pod system, you might find that the convenience makes a believer out of you. On the Kitchen Aid: Yes, get the most powerful one you can find. I have a 350-watt model (non-tilthead) "professional model" and have taxed it with some tough kneading jobs. It's come through spectacularly. Even if you don't really bake too much now, keep in mind that it'll serve you well for a lifetime. At some point, you'll be trying your hand at breadmaking and will appreciate the extra power. On knives: Wusthof is an excellent overall choice, but I'd recommend sticking to the tried and true Classic line. My 8-inch Trident chef's knife has been with me for years, still as good as ever after countless sharpenings. I'm eyeing the beautiful Nenox chef's knife (link below) that Morimoto uses on the Iron Chef, but haven't been able to justify the expense yet. Over the last few years, I've gradually been converted to Japanese knives -- the Global 5.5 inch vegetable (santoku) knife is a real winner that you'll reach for often. The best paring knive I've used is made by Kasumi and is available through Broadway Panhandler. (Sure you don't want to register online there as well?) Dexter makes a fine Chinese cleaver that my mother claims is the only knife anyone who knows how to cook properly needs to own. I own eight, so I guess I don't know how to cook yet, but I'm learning. Oh yes, don't forget to put a high-quality wood chopping block to your list. Boos makes some great ones. Also, a magnetic knife bar so that you can see which blade you're reaching for. On the Cuisinart: see knives above. If you're in the NYC area and want a good deal on a rarely used one, contact me. On pots and pans: I'm with the saucyknave on this one, but I'm a bigger fan of All-Clad than she is. On other appliances: The Waring Blendor - two speeds, On and On Faster. Consider getting the stainless steel top if you tend to toss stuff into the sink as you cook like I do. An Acme Juicer with the citrus attachment and the cellulose filters. A Braun stick mixer to puree soups directly in the pot. A waffle maker for those rainy Sunday mornings when you want freshly baked waffles in bed. And my absolute favorite kitchen tool -- a massively heavy stone mortar and pestle. Heaps of fun and of more use than you would imagine. Link: http://japanese-knife.com Fri Nov 30 10:13:48 -0800 2001 1552054 0 Dennison 2 1552118 Does that espresso machine you mentioned also take regular espresso, or just the pods? I'm reluctant to buy one that takes pods in case for some reason they stop making them, then you are stuck with a useless machine. Fri Nov 30 10:50:15 -0800 2001 1552107 0 LisaN 3 1552124 Just about every pod machine I've seen has two or three filters, one specially sized to take the pods, the other(s) the traditional one or two cup sizes. One other thing to be aware of is that many of the newer machines (like my Saeco Classico) feature a pressurized handle designed to force a thick crema. Not sure exactly how it works, but I've heard that a lot of serious espresso fanatics take exception to such trickery. Guess I'm not really a true aficionado because I've been really satisied with the pods and the pressurized handle. Fri Nov 30 11:10:38 -0800 2001 1552118 0 Dennison 2 1552120 The Francis Francis is a great looking machine, and it makes decent espresso as well, but it will probably take some experimenting to get the best coffee from it. It comes with two attachments, one that uses pods and one for ground coffee. Of course using the pods is easier, but I wasn't very impressed with the Illy pods used in the demo I saw. The problem with going from scratch with your own coffee is that you'll have to experiment with the right grind and how hard to tamp. Once you get that down, the resultant espresso is good, with a nice crema. Also, the machine is not automatic -- you have to turn it off when the espresso is done, which also takes some practise. Fri Nov 30 10:55:40 -0800 2001 1552107 0 Janet A. Zimmerman