287555 Thu Aug 30 15:23:20 -0700 2001 40 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1547595 Since we're all airing our pet peeves (would you like some cheese with your whine?) I'd like to add my own. My number one complaint is being seated at a bad table (near the bus station or bathroom or practically in the kitchen) when there are so many other nicer tables available. I'm not referring to trendy restaurants where you want to "see and be seen" but where you're seated near something that's potentially unpleasant. My friends and I eat out a lot and in my long Chowhound experience, I've found this happens too often and not just in NY. I just returned from Toronto and my friend and I were seated right near the kitchen/bathroom. Of course we asked to be moved and we were but this just happens too often. From the moment you follow the host/ess to your table, it seems to me the restaurant is setting the groundwork for unhappy diners if they try to stick you at a bad table. Of course, sometimes that can't be helped because every table is booked but that's often not the case. It gets worse if you're trying to snag a table where there's some kind of view. Some managers have told me they seat diners at certain tables so that all their servers are equally busy but I really don't feel that's my problem when I'm at a table that's not conducive to conversation or dining. I'd be interested in how other Chowhounds handle this one. Do you have any clever strategies or snappy comments or do you just voice displeasure and hope for the best? All comments are appreciated. Thu Aug 30 15:23:20 -0700 2001 0 Ruby 1 1547602 I can't tell you how many times I've followed the hostess as we serpentine our way around empty tables only to be led to the bathroom\kitchen\drafty doorway bad table. It's like a tractor beam, I can see it coming before we get there. What I do is anticipate a bad table and before we can be seated I'll just look for another table and start walking towards it mumbling something to the hostess about changing tables. This way the hostess has to explicitly stop me versus me asking her if we can change tables. Thu Aug 30 16:51:20 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Scagnetti 2 1547614 That's a very good method. Thanks for sharing. I also agree with Wendy that her husband had to change tables four times. This 'table dance' has also happened to me and I find it tiresome/draining to have to 'fight' for a good table. This just happens too often. When will restaurant management wake up and realize this does not promote happy diners? Thu Aug 30 22:20:55 -0700 2001 1547602 0 Ruby 3 1547650 I can't agree that a passive agressive approach is the right one, and honestly a person who takes this approach, well, it might be the reason you are being led to a "less than good" table...Make eye contact, point out the table you would prefer, and inqire with a smile on your face "Actually, I would prefer that table..is it available?" as you walk towards in proprietarily. (sp?) Fri Aug 31 17:21:53 -0700 2001 1547614 0 Kim WB 4 1547652 Hi Kim, It didn't strike me that Scagnetti's approach was passive-aggressive at all. When a situation recurs repeatedly, such as getting seated at bad tables, various methods may work. It seems to me there's a general pattern being followed by restaurants--unload tables that aren't as desirable as others because of location/comfort. This has happened to me and to people I know too many times and we all have different strategies for dealing with it because it's such a common incident. I recall one evening, a hostess walked 20 paces ahead of my friends and I so we just stepped dead in our tracks. When the hostess finally turned around and saw we weren't following her like sheep, she came back and we politely asked for another table and got it. I really don't want to have confrontations with the maitre d', hostess, or waiter but when my comfort is placed below that of a table placement, then I either speak up or leave. If more people did that, I believe restaurants would think a bit more before they blithely lead you to the "Siberia" section or an uncomfortable table. Why do restaurants continually do this? I don't know. Maybe they want to give all their servers equal tables, maybe my outfit clashes with their decor, whatever. Maybe they're reserving the best empty tables for the Queen of Romania who hasn't arrived yet. Fri Aug 31 22:47:14 -0700 2001 1547650 0 Ruby 5 1547654 My apologies in advance to all women out there. It isn't fair, but here is my (admittedly anecdotal) experience: The goodness of the table offered is in direct proportion to the beauty of the female companion. Sat Sep 01 10:23:59 -0700 2001 1547652 0 Cliff Abrams 6 1547655 What a silly sexist remark! That "logic" may be superficially true with certain trendy restaurants. I'm a freelance photographer and have entered restaurants with The Models and still occasionally get undesirable tables. And what about the 'beauty' of the male companion? Restaurants size guys up and down too and quickly classify them into types: Is he dressed like a hick? a garmento? a small tipper, or a teetotaler? So, please don't insinuate that getting rotten tables are a direct reason because a woman is not beautiful! Sat Sep 01 12:45:14 -0700 2001 1547654 0 Ruby 6 1547656 How naive! In San Francisco, beautiful men fare better than beautiful women. Sat Sep 01 13:28:38 -0700 2001 1547654 0 Jim H. 7 1547666 Ha ha! In San Francisco, there seems to be Only beautiful men! ;) Sat Sep 01 22:34:19 -0700 2001 1547656 0 Ruby 3 1552760 when will diners realize that being happy is a very personal choice. have you EVER eaten at a Mcdonalds? at a truck stop? in a breadline in russia? on the floor of a HUGE warehouse? some of these places are not "pleasant" but you don't have to be unhappy, and nobody makes you unhappy or creates an unhappy time for you. i've had my drink spilled on me by a server, i've been told in a restaurant that i need to eat more, i've had some harrowing restaurant experiences, but i usually manages to walk away happy. i may not return to the restaurant, i may be disappointed and i may tell people that when they ask about specific places to eat, but i recognize that my emotions are controlled by only one person. so get over yourself and ask for a different table or just leave. don't play juevenile "i'm not satisfied" games. as humans we are inherently difficult to satisfy. no one is perfect. and a lot of these restaurants are paying $100,000 rent, that extra table may make the difference between them making a living and going out of business, but nobody is going to hold a gun to yourhead and tell you that's where you have to have you whine and cheese. a lot of hosts/servers would just as soon see customers with your attitude never return. Tue Mar 19 11:50:05 -0800 2002 1547614 0 renee 4 1552762 Renee, I hope with your attitude, you are not still in the food service business. You seem like the kind that is not interested in hearing feedback from customers as you are too defensive. Some of us are not wealthy and when we go out to eat and spend (to us) a lot of money, our expectations are high and we want the best experience possible. Your attitude might be ok at Burger King, but not at a fine dining establishment. Tue Mar 19 13:04:31 -0800 2002 1552760 0 fatboy 5 1552763 my other posts on this subject should clear up your idea that i have a bad attitude regarding service to my customers. if comments are not made in the establishment, no improvement can be made. we are not mind readers. Tue Mar 19 13:37:25 -0800 2002 1552762 0 renee 6 1552764 Renee or any other restaurant pros: Last night I ate at the Acme Bar & Grill for the first time in fifteen years or so. When my friend and I entered, a waitress met us and said, "Sit anywhere you'd like." We snared the last booth available, one that could have seated four. We asked if that was OK, and the waitress answered, "Sure." The result: the restaurant eventually filled, and the patrons spaced themselves naturally. I assume the waitstaff has to do some trading off, but presumably the guests were happy in the knowledge they could snag the most desirable available seats. I realize that this wouldn't work in more formal restaurants, or in places that had many reservations, but I've often wondered why more informal restaurants don't adopt this model. Although waiters might have had to cover greater distance to cover their tables, the service was terrific -- I only wish the food were as good. Tue Mar 19 16:27:04 -0800 2002 1552763 0 Dave Feldman 2 1547664 I have had some success by asking whoever is doing the seating, especially when it is an empty restaurant, to point out which tables are available to select from, while still at the entry to the room. It usally makes the experience a bit less awkward and eliminates the "dance around the room" that trying to change in mid-flight can engender. Sat Sep 01 17:52:58 -0700 2001 1547602 0 Mike Kilgore 1 1547607 Ususally asking to be moved is good enough. My husband always makes sure we have a decent table. One time we had to move four times, I was slightly embrassed, but he was determined to get us a good table. I admire people who has that kind of guts and am glad he is there to do the asking! Thu Aug 30 18:07:08 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Wendy Lai 2 1547617 This kinda happened to me once in a Bahama Breeze. I was with a friend, and one of the waiters was a friend of ours (and an excellent server besides), and when we reached the host station we SPECIFICALLY requested that person's station. We went to the bar for drinks, and when our beeper went off, we confirmed with them that we would be seated at his station. We sat down, and a girl came up to our table and introduced herself as our server. We apologized and asked to be moved to our friend's station. So she moved us over a little, and someone else came to us, that wasn't the right person. After apologizing again (my friend had a crush on the waiter so we REALLY wanted to sit there!) they finally transplanted another party (!! I can't believe they did that!!) and we got the waiter we wanted. I felt bad for the servers, and especially for the people who got moved (I think that was wrong, even if it got us what we wanted) -- this was totally the host station's fault, since we were very explicit in our preferences. Thu Aug 30 23:16:35 -0700 2001 1547607 0 Denise K. 1 1547610 look the seater firmly in the eye and so, NOOOOO OUR TABLE IS BY THE WINDOW...( the force is weak in this one) Thu Aug 30 19:53:22 -0700 2001 1547595 0 mrranchcuisine 1 1547624 I'm gonna jump in here, because I posted the very same peeve about two years ago. The short answer I got was "well, speak up for yourself." Which, of course I always have done. That wasn't my point. My point was what would make a waiter in an almost empty restuarant seat you at a bad table in the first place--thereby forcing you to ask for a change. So--I'm wondering--first, do you look younger than you are? And, second, do you have an open smiling, non-agressive looking face? I finally figured out that at least in some instances, these two qualities had convinced some restaurant staff that we might be more apt to fill up a bad table. (Reservation or no reservation.) My response has always been the same: to politely say "how about that table over there"--pointing to one I prefer. As long as we get the table we request--or one near it--I never get angry. But I'm forever bewildered as to their reasoning when an empty restaurant lies before us. And I don't believe that they don't know the "good" seats. We all do: those nice, roomy corner tables, ANY tables not bunched up against others, and, of course, away from locations where I'll become acutely alerted as to the particular workings of their kitchen--or bathroom!! The one time we did ask to change a table after being seated at a perfectly good one, two women and a toddler in a stroller were seated right next to us. Adorable kid. But it woke up and did what tired babies do--it screamed. And screamed. We were slightly embarassed...but since we were just in the drinks stage--before digging into our lobster lunch--we quietly asked our waitress if we could shift our stuff to the booth further back. She very cheeerfully reset another table for us. The baby did calm down--but only after 20 minutes of wailing out her story. In almost all cases, when I've asked politely for certain requests--like a better table--I get a favorable response. But my question is still "why do I have to ask in the first place??!!" In an uncrowded restaurant, why not take me directly to the nicest table available. Has anyone seen the Jackie Mason skit on being seated in restaurants? I lauged like a hyena over that! Fri Aug 31 09:00:08 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Lynn 2 1547629 The Maitre d'/Host/ess works like a croupier and is dealing one table to each waiter in a round before starting over again. And while this is not at all your concern it IS in the interest of creating an even flow of service. Now, and, as Dave Barry writes "I'm not making this up" what constitutes a "good" vs "bad" table is very subjective. There are no OBVIOUSLY BAD tables from our point of view. I've had guests taken to a lovely corner banquette asked to be moved closer to the bar so they could feel the energy, I've sat guests close to the kitchen be delighted that they could smell the food and so on: "I must be tucked in the back where it's quiet", "I must be up front to be seen", "I must be against the wall", "I must be at a freestanding table", "I must be at a round table, a square table ..." Now, and this is my most important point: (Save for certain trendy, clubby, hipster joints we don't go for the food anyway) YOU'RE NEVER ASSIGNED A TABLE AS PUNISHMENT. Remember this if your are lead to a table that doesn't please you. You were not sized up and deemed unworthy of certain seats. The decision of where to seat guests is not personal it is ALL about choreography and timing. So it really is just a matter of asking for another table. Fri Aug 31 11:40:08 -0700 2001 1547624 0 Christopher 3 1547639 Good to hear the other side. Okay! I believe you. No one's punishing me. :-) And you're right--when I've asked for a different table, no one's ever told me I don't deserve one. FYI, I like tables in a quiet corner, where I can observe what's going on without being in the middle of it. I suppose a lot of people do! Your posts are definitely educating me. Thanks. Fri Aug 31 13:37:45 -0700 2001 1547629 0 Lynn 3 1547641 Hi, all you say may be true but undesirable tables do exist and often non-regulars at a restaurant are quickly whisked to them. I remember reading a comment that Sherman Billingsley, owner of the Stork Club, used to say to the maitre d' if diners weren't celebrities, well-heeled or particularly well-dressed - "Seat them in the Ketchup Room" (ketchup being code for people who doused this condiment on their expensive steaks). Fri Aug 31 14:00:58 -0700 2001 1547629 0 Ruby 4 1547643 Remembering an anecdote from the past is not always an accurate barometer of how things are done now. Of course there are regulars who have tables they desire and request and we try to accomadate, but to believe that not being one of these known guests somehow earns you a bad/undesirable table is misguided thinking. Fri Aug 31 14:10:02 -0700 2001 1547641 0 Christopher 5 1547645 Sometimes it's just a matter of taste, but there are tables out there that are undesirable to everyone, and only exist because of the greed of the restauranteur in trying to cram one more table in. They're going to sit someone at that table by the restroom door, the one every patron going in needs to push you out of the way to get by, and then when he leaves the restroom, the door stays open leaving you with a clear view of the toilet. Or the patio table at the air conditioner exhaust, where it's fifteen degrees warmer than the outdoor temperature. They just pegged you as a person who probably wasn't coming back anyway. Or maybe doesn't care. Or at least, won't complain. Fri Aug 31 14:26:05 -0700 2001 1547643 0 ironmom 6 1547648 Why? Why, when a restaurant's income is dependant upon steady repeat business, when MY income is dependant upon your immeadiate satisfaction, why would we intentionally mistreat, misplace or dismiss ANYONE? Especially a stranger who could be the next most generous regular we have? It makes no sense. Fri Aug 31 15:20:09 -0700 2001 1547645 0 Christopher 7 1547649 With your respect for the customer and forward-looking management skills, you probably wouldn't do such a thing. I wonder how many people would have been seated at the restroom location I cited over the years if the health department hadn't shut the restaurant down a couple of weeks later. Poor management in general. Fri Aug 31 16:20:32 -0700 2001 1547648 0 ironmom 6 1547902 I've found after watching a bad table for awhile that the host/hostess try's to seat EVERYONE at it until someone accepts it. Thu Sep 06 10:51:08 -0700 2001 1547645 0 Michele Cindy 3 1548063 Christopher, You are correct in saying that everyone has different likes and dislikes as to where they are seated. However let's not play games and realize that as a norm people do not like sitting next to places where people pee or there are dishes piled up. Where there is a group of people screaming and laughing. There is a time and a place for everything. The bathroom is for when you want to let go of what you eat, not smell what you ate. The kitchen is where the left overs, things people no longer want and their saliva and dirty dishes, silverwear etc. has been placed. So once again, you are correct there are people that like that, but as you can see due to the response of this comment, how many people do you see that actually enjoy this? Remember the service is for the customers not for you and even though you understand the reasoning behind where they are seated, they don't have to understand that reasoning. The only thing they should concern themselves with is excellent service, food and atmosphere. They are paying a good deal for this as well as tipping the waitress. if it weren't for these very customers, you would not have your car, your home or your credit cards. Therefore, don't you think restaurants should take an iniciative and respect their customers? By doing the least they can do which is giving them a "decent" table? Sat Sep 08 14:36:36 -0700 2001 1547629 0 Adrianna 1 1547881 I'm glad you have brought this topic to the table. I've found this common practice when I am by myself, and because I am not Caucasian or blonde, and older... They don't this too often to men, but they do to women. I usually ask for a better table and get what I want, but I am already predisposed and not too happy... Retauranteurs, get realistic, design your sitting areas in a different manner or disguise your bathrooms and kitchen/serving areas in a different way. Hire a designer and get your act together... Thu Sep 06 08:17:09 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Irma 1 1547894 I don't notice being seated at a less-than-desirable table as much as i notice treatment by some waitstaff. I am 24, and my boyfriend is 20. A few times we have been spoken to curtly, while we witnessed neighboring diners treated better. One time in particular, we were at a popular seafood restaurant and the waiter never smiled at us, never introduced himself, or told us the specials. I hadnt realized the last thing until two women in their mid-twenties seated next to us got the whole list of specials recited to them by the same waiter, and he was much more pleasant. And at another restaurant, the middle-aged waitress was much friendlier to people her own age and was rather rude to us, the youngest diners in the place. The food wasn't that great anyway, so we have never gone back. It's all their loss, though. My boyfriend is a big tipper when the service is right. :) Thu Sep 06 10:13:53 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Kris 2 1552759 have you ever pointed out to management that you feel treated unfairly or even more importanly when the service was spectacular? what a manager says to an employee has more impact than a tip. there may be hundreds of tips in a day, but rarely does a manager or customer comment on a servers behavior. speak up! Tue Mar 19 11:30:29 -0800 2002 1547894 0 renee 1 1547900 You're not alone. My belief is that it's a game to the host/hostess to see who will accept the bad table. I simply say, "I'm sorry, this is too close to the bathroom/kitchen/door/hot sun but how 'bout that one over there?" I am always ready to speak up because I've found an almost bullying mentality taking over America's service industries. It seems to have become much more about the convenience of the company and not the guest (you and me). Is it just me? Thu Sep 06 10:38:52 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Adam 2 1547914 Nope, Adam, it's not just you. That's why I posted about this inherent restaurant situation. It's my number one peeve and I'm hoping that the powers that be in the restaurant industry might read these posts and wake up to this problem. I don't want a built-in confrontation when I reserve a table, am looking forward to a nice meal, and then friends and I are escorted to a table facing the (you name it:) bathroom, kitchen, dirty dish area, or one step away from a smoky bar or on top of other tables. Thu Sep 06 11:53:48 -0700 2001 1547900 0 Ruby 3 1547944 I hate sitting near the dirty dish area. They always THROW the dishes in the bin instead of PLACING them. Even in "nice" restaurants. It jars my nerves and makes me jumpy. Does anyone else have this peeve? Thu Sep 06 14:45:05 -0700 2001 1547914 0 fatboy 1 1547915 If you are firm, but not obnoxious, simply explaining that the seating is "unacceptable," you will be seated at different table with little hassle or attitude. Thu Sep 06 11:59:31 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Audrey 1 1547916 If you are firm, but not obnoxious, simply explaining that the seating is "unacceptable," you will be seated at different table with little hassle or attitude. Thu Sep 06 12:01:13 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Audrey 1 1548036 Hi! Being a former waitress/restaurant supervisor for 25 years, I can only speak for myself.Although I did NOT design the restaurants I worked in, I do know that there is always one or two tables that are in a bad location. Near a bathroom, cash register, hostess station,whatever... I NEVER wanted to seat a customer in an uncomfortable area!! Before you are seated, look around and listen. If there is a lot of noise or a chance of you being subjected to an unrelaxed dining situation, let the hostess know IMMEDIATELY!!! If they want your business and to please you,if they want to make an impression....they WILL move you, or ask if you'd like to wait for a more comfortable table. Fri Sep 07 20:02:54 -0700 2001 1547595 0 La Dawn 1 1548062 I am with you. Nothing could be more rude! I have a very busy schedule and household and the one thing that takes me away from the hectic life I lead is to take myself out to a nice dinner by MYSELF, where no one will tug on sleeve, page me, hound me down with quesions etc. But every time I go, I always get the bathroom, the back of the restaurant, the dark corner or the kitchen. It happens even when I am with other people. I hate it! But I tell the hostess right away..."i don't sit next to bathrooms, I point at another table and walk right over and sit down. It never fails. As far as people saying they need to work with the waitresses arrangements and that is why they glue you to the people the next table over, I am not for that either. I let them seat me and then pick up my menu and move a seat or two over with silverwear and all. That is their problem not mine. I am paying for the service,food and atmosphere. I expect the best treatment for both. Sat Sep 08 14:23:32 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Adrianna 2 1552758 whoah. having been both a waitress and a hostess i suggest you immediately get a job in food service. if either of those is below you, managing a restaurant would be ok. except they don't hire folks with no food service experience. here's the problem with your attitude in a restaurant...suppose everybody moved into one waitresses section all at once. (i've had all kinds of sections, one was even 13 tables, and all were very popular tables). you can imagine that being at the whim of 13 different parties can be stressful. it sounds like you appreciate getting drinks etc in a reasonable amount of time. Another issue is that when a host seats a party he or she tells the appropriate member of the wait staff IMMEDIATELY. if you switch tables the oiginal server thinks he/she has been ditched and the new server has no idea you exist. so then the customer is angry that no service has been given, for example customers who take it upon themselves to move often note that parties seated after them get a server before them. and then there's the honesty issue. its very insulting to a host to not be politely told how we can serve you better. you underestimate our ability to give you what you want and/or need. Tue Mar 19 11:25:23 -0800 2002 1548062 0 renee 1 1548088 The very best way to avoid getting a table you do not care for is to 1) make a reservation and explain where you prefer to sit...2) when you arrive for your reservation reiterate your table preference. If you don't make reservations you get second choice. It is always a bad idea to wait until you are being seated to express a desire for a particular seat...the host has already mapped out where the next 5 to 10 parties will be seated. Sun Sep 09 03:30:02 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Wabe 2 1548098 You're right about making reservations and I usually do make them in advance. When I've stated a seating preference, the person on the phone usually says "Well, I'll indicate this next to your name but I can't guarantee it." If there are banquettes or a window view, I might request one. However, I don't know how to ask for a table that's NOT near the bathroom or dirty dishes. It sounds so indelicate and a bit presumptuous so I hope for the best. Certain waiters have told me confidentially to ask for "table #so-and-so" the next time you reserve. Sun Sep 09 12:11:18 -0700 2001 1548088 0 Ruby 1 1548101 You have to be ready to leave the restaurant, rather than drop big bucks on a dinner you won't sufficiently enjoy. Almost always, when told that "if that's the only table available, perhaps some other time..." the maitre d' suddenly realizes an alternative is possible. If not, and you don't exit the restuarant, you've just been had. Sun Sep 09 13:29:10 -0700 2001 1547595 0 Peter Leavy