287553 Wed Aug 29 22:48:46 -0700 2001 7 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1547373 I have a question for a writing project of mine. Somewhere in my diminishing memory, I seem to recall that some Mexican Indians (I believe Mayans but could be Zapotecs or others) wrote recipes on the old pyramids. Might have been the first record of corn, tomato, etc. Also actual recipes for dishes not disimilar to some of today's Mexican cuisine. Does anybody know about this--or where I can look it up? I've tried various keywords on Google, but don't seem to be getting anywhere. Wed Aug 29 22:48:46 -0700 2001 0 roger simon 1 1547397 Hi, I don't know anything about recipes having been written on the pyramids, but there has been a lot of interest in Mexico lately in Pre-Colombian or Pre-Hispanic food. There are many restaurants throughout Mexico specializing in this 'cuisine,' and though it features such lowly ingredients as bugs and worms (!) such tihngs are considered something of a delicacy due to its cost. Indeed, there are many common Mexican dishes which bear a close resemblance to what was eaten in ancient times, which is thought to be a rarity - in many cultures it's hard to trace what their ancient cuisine was, but apparently in Mexico there are: 1) indigenous people still practicing many ancient food-related traditions 2) uncommonly well-preserved plant and animal remains in certain areas, helping to not only determine what the native plants were at the time of the earliest inhabitants, but when they began to be cultivated 3) later, like 1200s or so, there are detailed Aztec writings about food practices (as well as a well-preserved history), and lots written by Spaniards about local custom at the time of the conquest (1500s) - which was the beginning of foreign influence that would evolve into 'modern' Mexican cuisine. The first real 'civilization' there were the Olmecs (I think from around 2000BC to year one), who had an evolved hieroglyphic writing system, so it makes sense that there could be writings about their culture on the pyramids. After that were the Mayans and then the Aztecs, about whom pretty much everything is known about their food practices. For the record, the earliest native crops were corn, squashes, tomatoes, beans, chiles, avocados, chocolate. They figured out masa (treating the corn w/lime) way early on too. The beasts were insects and worms, reptiles, birds, dogs, rabbits, etc. Pork, lamb, beef, chicken and goat didn't exist until the Spanish arrived!! Sorry for the ramble, and some facts here could be wrong, but it should be a good start for you. VERY interested in what this writing project of yours is! Nils Thu Aug 30 09:44:08 -0700 2001 1547373 0 Nils 2 1547419 Many thanks for your extensive and helpful response (and to the one above as well). I certainly owe you an explanation: I am a screenwriter and novelist. As a novelist I have written a series of detectives novels about a character named Moses Wine, the first of which was made into a film some years ago called THE BIG FIX. I am writing an eighth book in the series which is rather (possibly overly) complicated, something of a deconstruction of the genre, with much of the action taking place in Oaxaca. Without giving away too much of what I am up to, the macguffin of the story will involve an ancient recipe. Also, to the poster above, I am aware of both Kennedy and Bayliss and, thanks to you, intend to give them a second read (and eat!) Muchas gracias. Thu Aug 30 13:16:06 -0700 2001 1547397 0 roger simon 3 1547421 Hey - I remember "The Big Fix" starring Richard Dreyfuss, and the fictional Abby Hoffman-like character, Howard Eppes. I remember the old lefty Aunt, too..."lemme tell you about the Albanian labor party..." Thu Aug 30 13:36:44 -0700 2001 1547419 0 foodpimp 3 1547442 The Cambridge World History also has a pretty fair section on pre-Colombian eating habits, although its' accuracy has been questioned recently on this site. Also, I believe the Aztecs and Mayans did make occasional meals of Javalina, a native pig and less frequently, of deer. Thu Aug 30 17:50:26 -0700 2001 1547419 0 Greg Spence 3 1547475 They also had turkey. And human being. For what it's worth, some believe that the need for more protein in the diet led to the Aztec human sacrifices. Fri Aug 31 11:49:35 -0700 2001 1547419 0 e.d. 2 1547455 Hi Roger: We were introduced, years ago, at Clare Sparks' house. (I'm an old high school buddy of Richard D's). I live in D.C. now-- and recently had an opportunity to meet an elderly woman named Marion Stirling Pugh. She is an anthropologist who, with her husband Matthew Stirling, discovered the Olmec civilization back in the 1930's. They mounted two separate expeditions, sponsored by the National Geographic Society, and were the ones who excavated the famous Olmec heads--accompanied by a NGS photographer/filmmaker. She told me some great stories and showed me copies of the articles they wrote. You should be able to find them in the National Geographic archives. I don't recall any specifics about food being included in the articles, but they should provide some useful color regarding oldtime archeo/anthropologic expeditions. A book you might find useful is _The Food and Life of Oaxaca_ by Zarela Martinez. Fri Aug 31 01:05:00 -0700 2001 1547397 0 zora 1 1547399 An easy read that discusses some of the really early native American foods (remember, we were Northern Mexico for quite a while) is Lone Star, by T. R. Fehrenbach. My favorite in terms if interest, not taste, was a regular menu item of indians who settled in the south Texas desert. This is an incredibly inhospitable place. They would pick seeds out of their feces, boil them, and re-eat them. They called it the second harvest. Onward to Diana Kennedy. Many of her books discuss the food history of Mexico. Bayless does some of this but Kennedy, in my mind, is the true expert. I have some other sources, so I'll sniff around and get back to you. Thu Aug 30 10:13:45 -0700 2001 1547373 0 Greg Spence