American Chefs: How does the world View them?

[Pat i.]

A few weeks back I was watching a Show on the Bocuse D'or, a cooking competition held in France. The impression I got from the show is that the Europeans have a real snooty and disdainful view of American chefs that almost borders on Anti-Americanism. It appears that almost every year it is some french chef that wins the top spot.

Later on I read some remarks from french chefs Michel Richard, Georges Perrier and JEan Louis Palladin etc. about how there are No good Amercan chefs. this seems odd to me since these people have gotten rich in this country. I'm sure that these guys had Americans working under them. So what are they trying to tell us - that since there are no good American chefs they put out substandard food to customers they view as tasteless and unsophisticated?

Then if you read Michael Ruhlmann's books about his experiences at the CIA, he quotes the instructors who insist that American chefs can hold their own against any one from Europe.

Any insights, opinions? Just curious.

[Simon Majumdar]

American chefs are no better or indeed worse than their European counterparts. for Every Tom Colicchio(sp?) who can hold his own against any of his European counterparts, although doing something quite different, there is a Jean George who wears his profound lack of talent as a badge of pride much like our own MPW

No European would argue that there are no good chefs in the US, that would be nonsense and easily disproved. What would be the case is that menus in the US are less inventive and the quality of ingredients is way below that in Europe. In evidence I give you; Atlantic Salmon, Alaskan halibut ( please God no more ) Hudson valley foie Gras, New york Strip, and , as recently discussed, the abomination that is the US cheese board.

I have had some of the best food of my life in the US, from hot dogs to tasting menus, from ribs in Chicago, to Soul food in harlem. In the end it is not down to chefs but the whole view of food. Different, but not better or worse.

As in the UK, american chefs just need the confidence in their own culture and not try and copy the Europeans.

Oh Yes, someone should persuade Jean George never to pick up a chef's hat again

S

[Leslie Brenner]

Menus are less inventive here? You've got to be kidding! I'm not terribly familiar with the London scene, but I can speak about restaurants on the continent vs. restaurants in the U.S. Take France--although I'm a francophile and I love French food--to me heaven is the little undiscovered bistro serving fromage de tête or pig's trotters--I have to say that in terms of inventiveness, Americans--be they American-born chefs or French-Americans--win hands-down. In fact, I think we tend to be inventive to a fault--witness all the ill-advised fusion disasters. In many of the Paris two-stars, however, gazpacho is considered exotic--two summers ago it was all the rage. In two-star restaurants! While there are a handful of chefs in France doing really interesting, inventive food, most are not. Most are doing wonderful relatively traditional dishes, often with a spin, but not too far from the source.

And as far as ingredients go, while there are certain ingredients in Europe that are far better than what one finds here in the U.S., there are others that win here by a mile. I don't know about London, but every try to buy heirloom tomatoes in France? Fingerling potatoes? How about organic produce--that's way more developed here. Also it's difficult to talk about the U.S. as if it's one place. Are you talking about New York? The San Francisco Bay Area? Missoula, Montana? And let's not even talk about protein! There are lots of wonderful species of fish you can get in Europe, but the Mediterranean and North Sea are heavily polluted, and farmed fish is being fed protein. Veal, lamb, and chicken are far better in Europe than here. So perhaps it tastes good, but there are serious safety problems.

Have you tried Maine lobsters? Fresh Dungeness crabs? Olympia oysters? Soft shell crabs? There's nothing like them in Europe. Hawaiian ahi tuna? What's the problem with halibut, by the way? Maybe it was overcooked? If prepared properly, it's delicate, with a beautiful texture. So I don't know, maybe I'd say it's a wash, maybe ingredients are somewhat better in Europe, but I think it's silly to say that the quality of ingredients here is "way below" those in Europe.

Of course cheese is way behind here, but we're making tremendous progress. There are wonderful farmstead cheeses--did you try Berkshire Blue, for instance? Ever had a ripe Teleme? Stop at Murray's and ask them for a selection of their best American cheeses on your next visit, and then let's talk about cheese.

[Simon Majumdar]

Leslie

I agree with much of what you say, but I still maintain that in 90% of the cases on my frequent trips to various parts of the US I can guess the ingredients on the menu and how they are going to be cooked.

I love Halibut, but Alaskan Halibut is a much weaker fish than its european cousin, the flesh is fatty and less flavoursome.

It is simply not the case that organic produce is more widely available in the US or indeed more widely bought. I don't think I have ever encoutered any in any market I have been too. Last time I went to the Union square farmer's market, the organiser was telling me what a non-issue it seemed to be for producers and consumers alike.

I am making a long list of all the great cheeses people have been kind enough to tell me about and when I am back in a couple of weeks, I intend to search them out

[Brandon Nelson]

Simon

You have been caught in the web of the tourist traps and fed some bogus information my friend. I must also mention that measuring the U.S. as a whole against ,say, France is mixing apples and oranges. I assume you reffer to the Union Square farmers market in New York. I can speak with little authority on that venture since I have never been there. But I do know plenty about the farmers markets I frequent in and around San Francisco.

A majority of the fruits and vegetables for sale at these local markets are certified organic. Many of the packaged products, such as the oils and vinegars are as well. It is an inescapable issue here in Northern California. It demand is high. The supermarket I work in is building an expanding their organic selection constantly. We sell @ 350 to 400 lbs of bananas in a day. 8 weeks ago we added organic bananas as an option. They now account for 10 to 15% of our banana sales.

The geography and cultural diversity of the U.S. makes it impoosible to compare to lone European nations. Maine, Iowa, Northern California, and Texas are all to different to lumped together under one cultural or culinary flag. You have written about such experiences as soul food in Harlem. To me thats as regionally correct as lobster in Kentucky or Creole food in Seattle. Soul food is southern. Clambakes are a New England phenomenom. You can eat Cajun style food all over the U.S., but it belongs to Louisianna. Ever had an Elk steak in Missoula? Carp and Buffalo with corn on the cob in Hartington? Catfish and coleslaw with a glass of sweet tea by the Red River? These specialties are are separated by thousand of miles. Some of them are unknown once you leave their county of origin. I doubt however that more than 1% of those who visit the states from abroad will ever find themselves in Montana, Nebraska, or on the Texas/Oklahoma border. Pity. They are all great chowhound experiences waiting to happen. They will never find their way into a Zagat, Gourmet, or Village Voice article. They aren't glamorous places. But there are more needles in the Chowhound haystack than any of us will ever venture to find.

[Samo]

I want to second Brandon's comments about the availability of organic produce in California supermarkets. The huge Ralphs chain carries dozens of organic items in many of its stores in southern California. I suspect that this phenomenon is increasingly widespread.

[Pan]

Simon, we New Yorkers normally go to Health Food stores for organic produce. There are many health food stores throughout the city, and the great majority of them have organic produce for sale.

[Leslie Brenner]

Simon, the organizer of Union Square Greenmarket told you that organic produce is a non-issue for producers and consumers alike? I'm sure the many consumers (like myself) and chefs who shop specifically for organic produce from three or four farmstands there will be very surprised to hear that! As will the farmers!

Also, I still don't know what you're comparing the U.S. market in organic produce to. London? I've never done organic shopping there--maybe things are way better than here, I have no idea. I'm specifically comparing it to France, where I've shopped in marchés (and supermarchés and hypermarchés) extensively, and I can tell you that the organic produce in Paris pales in comparison with what one finds in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle, Austin--I can go on and on.

But now I'm really curious. Is it London you're talking about? If so, is there really that much available there? How is the quality?

[Simon Majumdar]

I can't speak for France, but I would argue that Organic produce is superior in London to that which I have experienced in NY, both in range and quality

While it is still only a small percentage of the population that shops organic ( one chain tried to focus on their organic range over the Christmas period and came a cropper ) they tend to be the ones with the most buying power and hence the most demanding ( i.e. the middle classes ) Organic food is easily available both from regular stores and from supermarkets and I would be hard pressed to think of too many things that I could not get an organic version of very easily in most parts of town.

In terms of the quality, the all powerful Soil Association stamps its authority on the whole shooting match. Different levels are awarded for non use of pesticides and all levels inbetween right up to one farm ( where I buy much of my meat ) which has records of what has been used on the land going back to 1104ad! There are very strict rules on what can be labelled Organic or otherwise. From a recent thread on this board, I am unsure how true that is of the US.

How much of this is down to us being really special people who want to eat "kind food" or being so scared of eating anything in this country that has come through the mass faming system, I don't know.

And ( he says contentiously,) I would take Borough Market over Union Square and day

S

[Eleanor Miller]

I am in South Florida and we need to apply chelated iron to our soil in order to enable the plant to be able to absorb iron. How do I do this organically? Is Sequestrian 138 acceptable?

Thank you.

[yvonne johnson]

hi Leslie, i'll restrict my comments to London and New York, and to vegetables. i've been eating regularly in both places, home cooking and out. in London i frequently put down my knife and fork, on first bite, and howl. carrots, potatoes, tomatoes, brussels sprouts-- they all taste so good. by the end of my stay i've become a broken record: "these vegetables are so tasty" "oh, my god, these carrots", "is anyone leaving their sprouts?"

i've tried various sources in NY, including Union Sq Mkt, but the vegetables often disappoint. i live nearby and i'm willing to give it another go. if you have favorite stalls for basic vegs, i'd be very interested. Organic, non-organic--i'm still on the lookout for some flavorsome veggies.

[Leslie Brenner]

Hi Yvonne,
I was really addressing the points about organic produce that Simon had made. Now flavorful vegetables, that's another story. I am frequently disappointed, as you are, by lack of flavor in many vegs here, though not so much by what I buy at the greenmarket. And fruits, too--last summer was horrible for me because of the sorry peach and plum crops. But I have found flavorful vegetables at the Union Square Market, though it's not my regular market (I'm a Brooklynite) and I don't know the names of the farms. And, I would add, the quality of the produce here pales in comparison to what you find in my home state of California. But I do like to buy flavorful Chinese greens in Chinatown.

[ironmom]

My gut feeling is that we're mostly talking a cultural gap here, not a culinary shortfall on this side of the water. What Simon is looking for is the US version of a certain cross-section of the culinary spectrum found in his home environment. While this sort of cooking and the celebrity-chef restaurants that serve it get written up on these board regularly, I doubt that it is in any way representative of the best of American cooking. (Unless, of course, you define it as the only thing worth bothering with.) These are the sorts of restaurants you go to because they're NOT representative of the local cooking. Certainly, there is no consensus on how consistently it is done well. I know plenty of Chowhounds in my area, and most of us can rarely afford such places, so they're not the sort of Chow source we frequent or seek out.

Simon comes here, visits trendy expensive restaurants in big cities and is unable to find what he looks for at home, looking in the same sort of places he frequents at home, and decides that none of it is worth much at all.

American tourists go to France and are freaked out by what the locals are dishing up. (Wasn't French cooking supposed to be 'great'?) American tourists go to Italy and are sorely disappointed that real Italian food doesn't include the best spaghetti with meatballs and tomato sauce in the world. Hey, what's that stuff they try to pass off on us as "antipasto", anyway?

Americans who go to England might be seriously disappointed by any food that costs less than a week's pay. And from reading the Internation boards, I'd say that Londoners are not always pleased with those places, either.

When in Bordeaux, I drank the Spanish wine that comes in the brown plastic jugs, just as the natives were doing.

When I go to Amsterdam, I'm not going to expect very much of Dutch cheese, but I'll be lunching on Dutch pancakes and washing down herring and smoked eel with the local gin.