286994 Thu Mar 08 14:18:18 -0800 2001 52 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1541431 Some rules of thumb and tips re: tipping: Double the sales tax in most states to calculate tip. Tip waiters who help you with takeout...they're not on significant salary regardless of how they're helping/serving you. Tip delivery people a ton. You'll get your food faster (and hotter/fresher) next time. Never stiff a waiter without explaining to a manager why you are doing so. And never stiff a waiter for a problem that was outside their control (kitchen problems, seating problems, etc). If you stiff waiters more than about once per year, the problem might be more with you than with them! Corollary to above: if the manager or maitre d' is sympathetic and helpful to your complaint, tip HIM the amount you'd have tipped the waiter. It will add emphasis to your complaint against the waiter, showing you're not simply a cheapskate. If the restaurant comps you on any item, include the value of that item in calculating your waiter's tip. Always try to hand the tip personally to your waiter. Many places pool tips, but some do not, and this way you'll be sure they actually get it (rather than the busboy or manager). Corollary to above: customers do steal tips. Don't leave a tip on the table unless you've made eye contact with the waiter as you go, so they know the money's sitting out. Resist the urge to throw forks and knives at waiters who ask "do you you need change?" as they accept the twenty with which you pay your $12 check. any others? Thu Mar 08 14:18:18 -0800 2001 0 Jim Leff 1 1541438 "Tip delivery people a ton ..." Hear hear! I also factor in when I've phoned and if I've brought them out in nasty weather or during a "big game" when I know they must be slammed. Also, and I assume this is common knowledge ... Your tip is our salary. On an average night, the wage paid by the house is less that 0.15% of the take home tips earned. Do we want to discuss adopting the "European model" of having the service charge built into the menu price or automatically afixed to the check or is that still too hot a polemic? Thu Mar 08 14:53:32 -0800 2001 1541431 0 Chris 2 1541444 The question of "European model" of tipping has been discussed before, but not lately. But if we're gonna revisit the topic, would you mind starting a new thread? As you said, it's a volatile topic, and best kept well-organized and contained within its own context (which is to say...please, everyone, wait till the new thread starts--or start one yourself!--rather than weighing in here) ciao Thu Mar 08 15:37:15 -0800 2001 1541438 0 Jim Leff 2 1541447 Out of curiosity, about how much do do you think a "ton" is? I never have any clue about how much to tip deliveries. What would you all consider the appropriate tip range, from bare minimum to nice, for (1) a $13 pizza; (2) a $35 Chinese food order? Assuming average circumstances for both (normal weather, normal delivery time, etc)? Thu Mar 08 16:16:37 -0800 2001 1541438 0 Jeanette A. 3 1541453 it's personal, and depends. nice weather, slow delivery, non-friendly deliverer, place you're unlikely to use very much, I'd pay a $13 pizza bill with $15 and a $35 chinese food bill with $40 (plus a quarter or two). 15% is bare minimum. If I'm feeling real generous and the guy makes it through a deluge and is nice and I use 'em all the time, my upward limit would be to pay $13 pizza with $18 (or $20 in truly extraodinary circumstance), $35 chinese with $45. Generally, nice guy, delivers fast, place i use regularly, I'd tip 25-30%. If I had to round down a bunch below that for convenience one time, I'd balance by rounding up next. And if I was too broke to tip well, I'd save myself the entire tip and go pick it up myself. Being broke is not an excuse for undertipping. If you're truly broke, you shouldn't be taking on unnecessary expenses at all. Just my opinion, of course... ciao Thu Mar 08 16:45:24 -0800 2001 1541447 0 Jim Leff 3 1541467 I generally tip 10% for delivery. I have no idea what the norm is. Would be curious to know, though. Thu Mar 08 22:16:52 -0800 2001 1541447 0 Roger Lee 4 1541469 I tip about $1 for delivery of one item (e.g. noodle soup for $4.90 will be a $6 payout to the delivery person). If the weather sucks, I'll give $6.50 or even $7, and if I get another item and the bill is $8.10 or something, I will give $9.50-$10.00. I don't know if that makes me generous or cheap. One delivery person always seemed disgusted with getting $6.00 for a $4.90 bill, and I resented that. Fri Mar 09 01:22:45 -0800 2001 1541467 0 Michael L. 1 1541439 If a waiter taking your money asks, "do you need change?" you can always respond, "I do now." Thu Mar 08 15:02:56 -0800 2001 1541431 0 Zephyr 2 1541442 How about: "Yes, of course! How can I possibly tip you if you don't bring me change?" (when annoyed, it's fun to come up with stuff that takes a while to sink in...and this one's a veritable time capsule) Thu Mar 08 15:15:24 -0800 2001 1541439 0 Jim Leff 1 1541445 This is my rule of thumb re: tipping in bars (kind of a corollary to Jim's policy on comped items): if I get a buyback or am drinking on the house, period, then I normally tip around half of the drink price. It drives me nuts when someone lays a dollar down for a comped drink. People have told me that I'm crazy, but guess what? I get really, really great service. Thu Mar 08 15:40:54 -0800 2001 1541431 0 Lauren 2 1541456 Normally at the bar (my regular bar) I leave the price of the buyback drink as tip. If the owner of the bar, buys you a drink, then tip the amount of the drink to the barkeep too. In the late '80s, at a now defunct bar/pub mid-town, the barkeeps bought us the first round. This way they knew they'd get their tip irrespective of the number of pints I we had. Also, in crowded places where all the seats on the bar are full; if you barkeep places your drink near a group he/she know are about to leave; theirby giving you an opportunity to grab a seat -- tip extra ;-) When it first opened, AnneMoore's off Vanderbuilt & 43rd used to have crowds two or three deep. We somehow just managed to get seats within few minutes. Thu Mar 08 17:11:39 -0800 2001 1541445 0 Anil Khullar 1 1541449 "Always try to hand the tip personally to your waiter....and this way you'll be sure they actually get it (rather than the busboy or manager)." This reminds me...we were regulars at an indian restaurant in manhattan (Atithi, on univ pl, no longer) for around 8 yrs, going there once a week. We tipped generously, and one night--i don't know what prompted me -- i asked our regular waiter if he actually got to keep his tips. He said the manager got all the money (is this legal?). This was confirmed by a second waiter. I was horrified. So we left no tip, and stopped going. But there was no way of knowing what happened to the tips. Our waiter used to collect all the money. What to do? Make no assumptions? Ask waiters directly whether they get to keep the tip? Thu Mar 08 16:32:19 -0800 2001 1541431 0 yvonne johnson 2 1541455 Management seizure of tips is quite common in Chinese restaurants. Most people who know this, including me, tip anyway. I'm not quite sure of a better way to handle it. Guess I need a rule of thumb! Thu Mar 08 17:07:57 -0800 2001 1541449 0 Jim Leff 1 1541461 I spent a couple of years working in restaurant kitchens, and the thing that puzzles me about tipping is that it's the waiter who gets it, not the people who are preparing the food and making special modifications to the customer's order on request. Granted, the waiter has to get the instructions right in order for the people on the line to make up the order, but shouldn't there be some sharing? I've heard that this does happen in some restaurants, but it certainly didn't happen in the places where I worked (good upscale restaurants in Los Angeles). Thu Mar 08 18:10:27 -0800 2001 1541431 0 Sarah C 2 1541465 Cooks and chefs generally get paid a decent salary. Service people get paid less than minimum wage by restaurants, because it is expected that the tips (for the service) will bring their wages above the legally mandated minimum. Thu Mar 08 22:12:28 -0800 2001 1541461 0 Roger Lee 3 1541480 A decent salary? Hah! I was making $7.00 an hour when I worked the garde manger station at Water Grill. The wait staff may have been paid a lower hourly salary, but they made far more than I did with their tips. Fri Mar 09 09:39:43 -0800 2001 1541465 0 Sarah C 4 1541481 I was making $6.50 an hour, now that I think of it. Fri Mar 09 09:40:49 -0800 2001 1541480 0 Sarah C 4 1541496 I remember many a time when business was slow not making enough tips to supplement my $2.01/hr salary (this was when I was a teenager about 14 years ago) to push it above the minimum wage. And yet I was still expected to work late and close the restaurant. I wondered at the time how it could be legal. Fri Mar 09 14:33:05 -0800 2001 1541480 0 Melissa Garland 2 1541482 I used to always send tips to my favorite chefs while living in New Orleans. For example, I used to live right around the corner from the Camelia Grill and would brunch/lunch there at least 3x a week. My knowledge of their staff allowed me to position myself on the side of the counter where the better of the two chefs were stationed. After my meal, I would hand the waiter a few extra dollars and tell him they were for the chef . I also used to eat at a great little place inside a pharmacy on Carrolton (what was the name of that place with the great turkey??) and would always send a tip to the chef. Maybe its a southern thing b/c I am not in the habit of doing the same thing here in NYC? Fri Mar 09 10:32:32 -0800 2001 1541461 0 Mark M 3 1541483 No cook/chef is going to refuse a cash tip and it would be a lovely gesture. One I don't think I've seen. Much more common, if you have a bottle of wine, is to send a glass back to the chef. Fri Mar 09 10:44:48 -0800 2001 1541482 0 Chris 2 1541678 I think tipping kitchen staff is great and should be done by all, especially in states where servers make a decent minimum wage. Kitchen staff work their behinds off and usually make an hourly fraction of the servers. Fri Mar 16 02:01:52 -0800 2001 1541461 0 anita 1 1541471 What a can of worms this thread has been! Ever hear a bad excuse from someone trying to justify a stingy tip? Some people are under the sad notion that breakfast and lunch tips should weigh in at 10%. My other favorite is "I don't tip one the tax" as one of your tablemates attempts to figure his tip. 15% is often my bare minimun, unless the service was lousy. 20% is my baseline tip. I have at times gone as high as 30% when the service has been superior. My buddy Scooter and I were having a post bender breakfast last year. We were barely alive as we tackled our omlets and O.J.. The diner we were in was nearly empty. We left our waitess a $8 tip on a $12 tag. The smile she wore after that was worth a C note at least. Chow!!! Fri Mar 09 02:12:37 -0800 2001 1541431 0 Brandon Nelson 2 1541476 To me tipping is on a sliding scale. Paying 6 or 7 bucks for breakfast means a $2 tip percentage wise a hell of a lot more than 15%. Around 20 bucks a $5 tip seems right still more than 20% ! The higher the tab the higher the expectation for service as well as food. Also on a $200 tab anything over 20% seems excessive. The above comments refer to one or two diners not a group which is a whole other can of worms. Fri Mar 09 07:36:49 -0800 2001 1541471 0 Gene 3 1541484 "Paying 6 or 7 bucks for breakfast means a $2 tip percentage wise a hell of a lot more than 15%." I think people somehow have gotten the idea that the percentage is somehow meaningful in and of itself and is not simply a useful too for figuring out what seems to be fair compenastion for good service. It's not actually any easier to bring someone a $2.50 plate of eggs than it is a to serve a $7.50 sandwich. The tip should in some way reflect the service rendered, not just the cost of the meal. - VF Fri Mar 09 10:59:11 -0800 2001 1541476 0 VF 4 1541485 Right you are--it always appalls me to see someone eat in a coffee shop, get water and coffee refills, scatter crumbs, crumpled napkins and straw wrappers on the table, AND take up space for a (sometimes long) while and then leave a $1 tip. I, sadly, know people who would justify this by claiming that if you have, say, $4 worth of pancakes, why should you tip more than $1? I have a friend who is so tight (I can safely say this because I know she never looks at these boards) that it's embarassing, and when I go out with her I and whoever else is there always end up supplementing the tip (and the coat check--she once tried to tip someone $2 for fetching three coats and a briefcase!). I also think many people in NYC have gotten a little rigid about the "double the tax" rule and that really good service, be it in the local coffee shop or Gramercy Tavern, deserves more than a 15-16% tip. Fri Mar 09 11:15:27 -0800 2001 1541484 0 Martha Gehan 5 1541486 i may be going off topic here, but here's another wretched example. a group, around six people, out to dinner several years ago. One friend announces that a friend of his is joining us for dessert and coffee. i hate this practice. knocks the pace and is a horrible interruption. anyway, this friend of friend (who happens to be very well off, btw) appears, has his dessert and coffee. Check arrives and group says to friend of friend, "you had so little, what you had's on us." And you never guess, well maybe you can see this coming....He says, "You don't mind if I take the receipt do you? I can claim for this". Without resorting to bottling him, what's the rule of thumb here? Fri Mar 09 12:56:11 -0800 2001 1541485 0 yvonne johnson 6 1541488 You could always give a little call to the IRS ;) Fri Mar 09 13:23:45 -0800 2001 1541486 0 Deven Black 7 1541490 funny. The incident was funny too--everyone struck dumb...even (the usually outspoken) yours truly. Fri Mar 09 13:46:11 -0800 2001 1541488 0 yvonne johnson 8 1541537 Wow! What balls! If I knew I wasn't in the fellas will, I think I would've muttered "Tacky," loud enough for the idiot to hear. Sometimes you just has to calls 'em. Sun Mar 11 21:04:30 -0800 2001 1541490 0 bryan 9 1541598 Bryan No need to lower your voice. Our world suffers when we let a fool like this go. They will assume that silence is approval. After which they will undertip the waiter and stiff coatcheck. We have to police our own! Chow!!! Mon Mar 12 20:23:03 -0800 2001 1541537 0 Brandon Nelson 6 1541502 A simple firm NO ! Fri Mar 09 16:38:49 -0800 2001 1541486 0 Gene 6 1541504 I can see I wasn't clear I meant NO you can't take the receipt ! Fri Mar 09 16:40:38 -0800 2001 1541486 0 Gene 5 1541487 What's wrong with 2 dollars for 3 coats and a briefcase? You people are sooooo NY-centric! Fri Mar 09 12:57:46 -0800 2001 1541485 0 BRB 6 1541489 It's more expensive to live here than many places, and someone checking coats all night is going to find it tough indeed if the average table only forks over a couple of bucks. People providing a service deserve to be tipped, not treated like lackeys. An illustrative point--during the Olympics in Atlanta, my sister's employer (a large multi-national corporation) took over a large hotel and packed it full of favored customers and employees. There were large hospitality suites with free food and drink available (very good and very lavish, according to my sis and her husband) all day and night, nonstop. One day, my sister overheard one waiter say to another, pointing at her party, "Wait on those people. They're from New York and they tip." And, Brandon, who started this tangent--correct me if I'm mistaken, but you're not a New Yorker, are you? Fri Mar 09 13:45:03 -0800 2001 1541487 0 Martha Gehan 7 1541492 I'm a New Yorker, and a very good tipper where waiters are concerned, and I wouldn't consider two dollars an outrageously bad tip for fetching a couple of coats. It's not exactly generous, but I wouldn't call it a shocking act of inconsideration. That's my view, anyway; maybe I'm in the minority. I'll add that my wife used to check coats in a restaurant, and made a pile of money doing it, so the notion that the poor coat checkers are just scraping by gives me a chuckle. Fri Mar 09 14:04:37 -0800 2001 1541489 0 Chris E. 8 1541494 Maybe my view is colored by my friend's overall stinginess, but I still think that $2 is inadequate compensation for taking three coats and a heavy briefcase, stowing them in a closet and fetching them and helping you on with them when the meal is over. My rule of thumb is $1 per item. It's great that your wife made out well checking coats, but a friend who raked in a pile working as a cocktail waitress told me that the place she worked at(now defunct) seriously considered at one point charging to check coats because so many customers stiffed the attendant. Fri Mar 09 14:28:22 -0800 2001 1541492 0 Martha Gehan 8 1541499 Let's see. If a coat check person gets $1 from each person who sits in a restaurant, and the restaurant has (say) 30 tables and seats 100 people at a time, and the average is 2 groups per table, then the coat check person gets (in tips) $200/night, which is $1,000/wk (for a five day week). Not Rockefeller, but hardly the minimum wage. Fri Mar 09 15:21:49 -0800 2001 1541492 0 Peter 9 1541506 Not everyone checks their coats, especially during the warmer months. Fri Mar 09 16:49:00 -0800 2001 1541499 0 Caitlin McGrath 10 1541508 I used to check coats, and I can say that people checked their coats and wraps as much in the summer as the winter. maybe more so. Fri Mar 09 17:24:25 -0800 2001 1541506 0 Alex P. 7 1541597 Hi Martha Correct, not from New York. Never been in fact. I know all about the high cost of living though. I live in Napa, and work in Marin county (San Fransisco Bay Area). Anyone who keeps an eye on the real estate market knows the insanity Bay Area housing is going through. Renters have seen their monthly payment increase 2 to 3 times in some areas. Crazy. I don't know that it's a regional thing, tipping well. I simply believe that you take care of people that take care of you. I always thought of wait staff as my employees, not the restaraunts. I think that creates a better attitude towards my servers, and thats often a 2 way experience. Chow!!! Mon Mar 12 20:13:41 -0800 2001 1541489 0 Brandon Nelson 5 1541500 i have a hard time tipping because i'm usually already beating myself up for spending money in the first place. i live on student loans and a $10/hr part-time job, but i still sometimes have to eat out, as we all do in new york; i hope servers understand that some people can't be lavish with tips. in some cases being a cheapskate is a necessity for survival. Fri Mar 09 15:24:42 -0800 2001 1541485 0 emily 6 1541501 I have to disagree--no one "has to" eat out unless of course they don't have a kitchen. If you can't afford the tip, then you can't really afford the outing. And I'm not saying you must always, or even usually, be lavish. Just that the tip should be commensurate with the service. It's ok to be a cheapskate with yourself if it's necessary for survival, but I hardly think it fair to expect a waitress to suck it up because you're a little strapped. As someone whose sister put herself through college working as a waitress and whose brother was a busboy, waiter and cook (I on the other hand was a bookkeeper in a supermarket-a job that totally sucked but was lucrative)I have very strong feelings about this. It is never acceptable to skimp on the tip because you're a little short. Never. Stay home, or have a salad and a glass of water and tip at least 15% on that. Fri Mar 09 15:40:26 -0800 2001 1541500 0 Martha Gehan 7 1541514 I totally concur. I'm a student myself, but I always tip at least 15-20 percent of the bill. I think that if you feel like you can't tip the proper amount, you have no business going out to eat. I understand that money may be tight, but a lot of waiters and waitresses are not earning very much either. They have to earn a living as well. If you are given adequte service, you should tip at least 15 percent. Fri Mar 09 19:51:09 -0800 2001 1541501 0 Jen Pen 8 1541581 I'm tired of hearing people say that they have to be stingy with the tips because of their own financial difficulties. They tend to be very selfish. Somebody I know is the stingiest person with tips, yet goes on numerous trips throughout the year, buys designer clothes, etc. She claims that she can't pay the 15 percent because money is scarce. If money is so scarce, don't eat out. Eating out is not "essential". Bring a bologna sandwich if you have to. If your tastes are a bit more refined, buy a hunk of brie at the East Village Cheese Shop for a dollar, and make yourself a nice brie and honey mustard sandwich, etc. You get the picture. Brown bag it. There's no shame in that. There definitely is shame in stiffing the waitstaff on an appropriate tip. Mon Mar 12 15:26:45 -0800 2001 1541514 0 Helloyous 7 1541603 wow--i never expected to be met with such rancor. a similar choice could be offered waiters and waitresses: if you want to make steady money and not depend on the generosity of others, go into another line of work. of course i tip %15; but i often feel pressured to tip more than that. when groups are calculating a bill and someone decides how much the tip should be and it's more than i would have given if i'd been on my own, i'm not sure how to respond. maybe you have some suggestions. i haven't always had this little money and it feels a little weird. i'm pretty good about my finances, but i'm not about to bring a wedge of brie to a restaurant. i rarely, rarely eat out, but sometimes it's the only time i can get together with friends. and when i commute for an hour and have to work and go to class and have had all the carrot sticks and the lightest items at the by-the-pound salad bar i can stand, it actually becomes essential that i eat out. but why am i explaining myself? i tip 15%. i'm probably not going to tip much more than that. but how much i tip really is nobody's business but mine. one day, when i'm finished grad school and have a job, i'm going to always insist on paying for friends who are students or who i know are strapped; maybe even friends who just pretend to be strapped but who i know are always going on trips or otherwise squandering their money. that might be more conducive to enjoyable meals and friendships than drawing attention to their stingy tips. Tue Mar 13 00:07:14 -0800 2001 1541501 0 emily 8 1541612 Emily, I read back through your inital post and didnt feel the response to you was rancorous - you hadnt made clear then as you did later that you do indeed tip at normal levels. I dont think that you are a cheapskate at all. However, I totally agree that if a person cannot pay the full cost of the meal, including a tip at the market normal levels, he or she shouldnt be eating in the restaurant. Its the people who dont step up to the tip and justify it on the grounds of poverty that I find disturbing. They truly are cheapskates - they can't see they are part of a bigger picture. and so many of the true cheapskates Ive known are rich by almost any standard... I think we've all been where you are, feeling the pinch and trying to keep expenditures down. what is striking to me is the cultural change since I was a student. In those days, I went to revival movies, to Chinatown and ate felafel. And did a lot of cooking. Was even on food stamps for one year. Babysat for spending $. There has been a major shift in the food culture, and an enormous increase in the amount of recreational eating that we do and the pressures to spend on food has gone up astronomically. They range of available eating options has also expanded massively. and if you socialize with a range of people who are not also struggling students, its worse. Finally, there is little worse than choosing your meal economically, not having drinks etc. and then having someone airily say, lets divide the bill equally! Thats often SO inconsiderate! Tue Mar 13 13:40:47 -0800 2001 1541603 0 jen kalb 9 1541616 My approach with splitting the bill is: If I feel I've ordered more than the table average, I pay more than my "equal share", if I'm figuring the bill, or try to if I'm not. If I've ordered less, I split it evenly, or if someone clearly was trying to save money, or didn't drink wine, try to give that person a break. Tue Mar 13 14:01:33 -0800 2001 1541612 0 Bilmo 10 1541622 I've dined in big groups where everyone pays for themselves and where there is a large disparity between orders. We have come up with a simple and excellent solution for splitting the bill: 1)Everyone gets a chance to peruse the bill. 2)Each one selects their own charges and totals them. 3)Then everyone adds 25% to their own charges which is pretty easy to calculate (this covers tax 8% or so and the rest, 17% as tip) 4)The monies are collected by one person and if necessary, the people paying the most throw in a few bucks extra at the end. If everyone at the table is upstanding (we've never had a problem) this works like a charm, and the person having only soup does not get excited by the person having three courses. It also makes future adventures in dining by this group much more relaxed and amiable than if things are being split equally (my experience with equal splitting is that some will order things they do not really want so as "not to be taken advantage of" and others will be afraid to order what they really want so as not to put an undue burden on others). This has worked for us for many years. Tue Mar 13 15:33:30 -0800 2001 1541616 0 Stefany B. 9 1541624 you're right--the response wasn't that rancorous. i guess i'm just sensitive about this topic. and people who tip less than %15 when service is normal are indeed cheapskates. i guess my only point is that people's finances are their own business really. Tue Mar 13 16:29:18 -0800 2001 1541612 0 emily 7 1541693 My wife and I some time ago sat at the counter of Republic on Union Square and had a couple of dishes. I received the bill, left a reasonable tip, and walked to the register to pay. The cashier took the money then asked whether I had tipped the server. He told me how hard they worked I, in turn, told him politely it was none of his business whether I had tipped or not.He persisted and even followed my wife and me into the street.He even grabbed my arm before backing off. I had never been so offended in a restaurant before. I found out the owner's name, wrote to him, but never received a reply. If, as I surmise chowhounds believe,hard working people get screwed by cheap tippers, then let us follow the European model and include the gratuity.I recently went to the buffet at East Restaurant in Flushing and a tip was included on the bill. One last thought: when I pay by credit card, before entering the tip, I always ask the server whether I should leave it in cash or is it okay to pay it on the card. The reason I do so is I am always wary of the server not getting properly reimbursed when one pays by card Fri Mar 16 13:10:48 -0800 2001 1541501 0 bud 8 1541708 There is no question but that the behavior of that cashier was inappropriate at best, at worst common assault. Included service charges would preclude the type of scene you endured, but also tend to remove the options available to the diner. When service charges are included it is impossible to reduce the tip for bad service, so there is less incentive to give good service. This is especially true since when service is included it is less likely that a larger tip would be left for exemplary service. Fri Mar 16 22:20:50 -0800 2001 1541693 0 Deven Black 2 1542387 Chin! Chin! 10% would be my bare minimun for average service(unless it wasnt the servers fault), 15%-20% for good service and higher for great service. i dont tip based on the added sales tax, of course I lived in Oregon for a number of years and they dont have sales tax. I would hate if somebody doubled their tip on 0% sales tax! Wed Apr 11 01:21:38 -0700 2001 1541471 0 Eric 1 1541519 A few observations from Boston. I suspect the tech downturn is going to completely dash the hopes of servers outside the NYC area to see the rest of the country rise from the 15% to 20% standard. As a frequent single diner, I actually use 20%-25% as my standard when dining alone, for one selfless and one selfish reason. The selfless reason is that there is a certain amount of work required per table regardless of the number of people. The selfish reason is that I like to encourage servers not to neglect us single diners (and there are certainly servers who do; often this can be discerned if you have to wait a terribly long time even to catch a server's attention well after subsequent diners have been attended to -- I usually leave the establishment with a businesslike but not overly private word to the maitre d'....) Also, if I am only eating a couple of courses but linger over them, I normally calculate tip including the average price of the omitted third course; the server should not be stiffed by my diet or lack of hunger if I am taking the normal amount of table time. There are some more traditional tipping guidelines that many servers, however, would like to pretend no longer live, but still do: --the base amount on which tip is calculated does not include tax --if the meal is a buffet, baseline tip is reduced by 5%. --on the flip side of omitting courses, unusually expensive wines do not necessarily merit standard tipping; the old guidelines for tips on that portion of the bill are mysterious to all involved, it seems... And, on a completely non-Chowhound tipping note: chambermaid tips are not 15% of the room bill (unless there is a unusual level of personal service required or requested, in which case all limits are off, of course). The customary tip is $1-$2 per person (assuming full occupancy) per night (something I confirm periodically with hostelries in various places). I have been astonished, especially, in some guesthouses in which I have stayed, at the ridiculous envelopes suggesting a minimum 15% tip (typically places where summer staff are college students) and feel sorry for those gullible enough to fork it over. Fri Mar 09 22:29:33 -0800 2001 1541431 0 Karl