286586 Wed Sep 20 05:13:52 -0700 2000 9 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1537604 Judy, during times of wine glut, house label wines can be a bargain. In the early 80's, we used to pick up some super cheap bottles at Von's or TJs that were worth 4 to 7 times the price. However, despite forecasts year after year for the last 5, the wine lake has not yet materialized in Calif. House label wines can come from wineries that go bankrupt or miss a debt payment and the bank sells off wine in bulk or unlabeled bottles to raise cash. In good times like today, they tend to be lots that don't fit into a large winery's product line or have too distinct a flavor to blend into the house style. That doesn't mean they're necessarily bad. Some of my best luck in finding bargains has been to examine the packaging. A distressed winery will use the same packaging, sans label, it has on hand rather than trying to find small quantities of something else. Look for heavy glass bottles with a punt (the indentation on the bottom), long metallic capsules rather than flimsy plastic, and long corks. These can add more than a buck to the cost of goods and are indications that this wine was made by an upmarket producer and originally intended for a premium market. Sometimes the corks are imprinted with the winery's name. Also look at the label legend, the line of fine print that says, "Vinted (or produced) and bottled by ______, address" to get a clue of who made the wine. When you find something that's priced to move, best to pull the cork in the parking lot, try it and see if you want to buy more. Otherwise it might be gone by the time you get back. Wed Sep 20 05:13:52 -0700 2000 0 Melanie Wong 1 1537605 What a wonderful, informative post! I have one question, though. What exactly are you talking about when you suggest looking for "long metallic capsules rather than flimsy plastic"? Are you talking about the wrap around the top of the bottle? Thanks! Wed Sep 20 10:27:26 -0700 2000 1537604 0 Beth 2 1537633 Sorry Beth, should have been more definitive. Yes, the capsule is the wrapping on the top of the bottle. Wed Sep 20 23:05:09 -0700 2000 1537605 0 Melanie Wong 1 1537611 Thanks Melanie! I knew I could count on you for a complete and informative post! Judy Wed Sep 20 13:25:01 -0700 2000 1537604 0 judy leibovitch 2 1537634 You're welcome. What price range are the house brand wines at BB? Maybe I can make some other suggestions.I had an errand south of Market and stopped into the SF Grocery Outlet for the first time to see what kind of wines this store has. Pretty extensive selection of distressed wine merchandise - this must be the "premium" outlet vs. the store in Salinas. I didn't buy anything but there were many good bets in the $2-$5 range. 96 Coltibuono Cetamura Chard/Trebbianno - this is a top producer, a Leonard LoCasio selection no less, probably a bit old for the style but a good vintage. 96 Central Coast Pinot Noir, back label says produced by Byington in Santa Cruz. 96 Perrin Cotes du Rhone blanc - a light vintage, from the same family that makes Beaucastel. 97 Bandiera North Coast Cabernet Sauvignon in half bottles - great vintage and decent low-end producer. 97 Tualatin Willamette Valley Riesling. 98 Bergerac blanc from Yvon Mau - Sauvignon blanc, muscadelle. 98 Pacherenc vicBilh. and more that I can't remember. Lots of stuff to avoid too. Wed Sep 20 23:13:04 -0700 2000 1537611 0 Melanie Wong 3 1537639 Hey Melanie- Going grocery shopping tomorrow or Friday and will get back on the price ranges of the BB wines. I particularly like the suggestion of popping open a promising bottle in the parking lot...Actually, what I really wish is that I could mind-meld with you while I'm looking over wines. judy Thu Sep 21 03:58:48 -0700 2000 1537634 0 judy leibovitch 4 1537640 Ah, another convert to the parking lot wine rating system! Be mindful of our open container laws. Maybe you're on the road to wine geekdom too. I know I'm a full-fledged case with 3 dozen wine glasses (3 different shapes suitable for most occasions), a corkscrew in the glove box and another one in my purse. One thing I noticed looking at inexpensive wines today is that many do use bottles with punts but they're shallow and the glass is lightweight. A deep punt, an indentation that you can almost fit your thumb in, and heavy glass are expensive and a clue that the wine might be better quality. Happy shopping, we're working on ways for us to mind-meld about wine and other chowhound activities. Thu Sep 21 05:47:52 -0700 2000 1537639 0 Melanie Wong 1 1537670 Just got the latest report on Calif. harvest from my friends at Robert Mondavi & OpusOne. Crop levels are up 10% over the previous record harvest quantity of 1997, and there's a glut of Coastal Chardonnay. Maybe there's hope for some better quality house brand wines in the next year or two. Anyone who thinks they'd like to try their hand at making wine at home, this is probably your best year to get some quality fruit. Here's the summary: Quality Potential? Most growers and winemakers are optimistic about the quality from the 2000 vintage. We are very optimistic about the reds which are deeply colored, with great flavors and acidity. The whites have good acidity and great flavors in the fruit. This looks like a vintage similar to 1997 (very good) possibly excellent. What's different about this vintage? * This is a big crush for the state of CA. This will be a record crush for CA winegrapes. The big question is... "Will all of the grapes find a home?" * Wineries are finally saying "enough". Many are not allowing growers to deliver more than their maximum contracted amounts. It looks like the grape supply should not be limiting factor for the next couple of years. * As a result the market prices for spot purchased fruit has dropped dramatically. In many cases wineries are not buying because they have no more fermentation capacity. * It looks like fermentation capacity is at a premium throughout the state. The industry will have to work very hard to deal with all of the 2000 vintage. * Opus One will have more than adequate fermentation capacity (approximately one quarter plus will go unused) as it has sufficient fermentation capacity for a bumper crop year using each fermentation tank only once per season. Thu Sep 21 19:28:23 -0700 2000 1537604 0 Melanie Wong 1 1537757 Melanie- I'm looking at a bottle of BB 1997 Merlot ($7.99); plastic capsule, deep punt, "vinted and bottled by Shattuck Cellars Ukiah, CA". The house "reserve" white was $4.99. Haven't popped the cork yet because I'm getting over a cough. Hope you're well. judy Mon Sep 25 17:12:21 -0700 2000 1537604 0 judy leibovitch 2 1537899 Hey there, Judy, hope you're feeling much better. Had a chance to open these yet? 1997 was a good year in the North Coast for most red varieties, especially Cab and Merlot, plus it was a big harvest and wineries could afford to be picky about what they sold under their own name. The Merlot could be a good bet, does it have a "California" appellation or something more limited? If Calif., it could be from anywhere, including the Central Valley which has an ocean of new Merlot vines. At $7.99, I have some other recommendations, but let me start a new thread for that. The general level of winemaking in Ukiah, Mendocino County is pretty good, so that's a clue to quality too. Shattuck Cellars sounds like a negociant name that BB chose for itself! Sun Oct 01 23:34:43 -0700 2000 1537757 0 Melanie Wong