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Need a new dishwasher AND refrigerator...what should I get?

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Lynn May 9, 2006 12:09 PM

Both our refrigerator and dishwasher are dying at the same time. We do not have to get the same brand for each, but what should I get?

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    cbauer RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 12:22 PM

    For the dishwasher - hands down - get a Bosch. Stainless steel on the inside, uses condensation drying (so no more burnt tupperware lids that fall out of the rack), super energy efficiency and blessedly quiet. (I have to actually touch the dishwasher to figure out if it's running because it is virtually silent)

    3 Replies
    1. re: cbauer
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      Lynn RE: cbauer May 9, 2006 12:47 PM

      I love the special features you mention: quiet, stainless steel and condensation drying. I know Bosch was Consumer Report's first choice recently, but I have heard from several appliance repair persons that something like KitchenAide is better because parts are more available. Have you had any difficulty getting repairs and/or parts for the Bosch?

      1. re: Lynn
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        RGC1982 RE: Lynn Jun 27, 2007 08:21 AM

        I've had no difficulty getting parts. Not all service companies work on Bosch, but many do. I live in the Dallas area and purchased from Lowe's, so there is no problem getting service here.

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          stuffedderma RE: Lynn Oct 21, 2007 03:40 PM

          kitchenaids are very noisy,

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        TomSwift RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 12:30 PM

        We're in the same predicament. For dishwasher, I think we've decided on Thermador which, although branded Thermador, is really made by Bosch. It is unbelievably quiet. Their model with the digital readout has heavier insulation than their pushbutton one and is quieter still. They have a little light that shines on the floor so you can tell if it's in operation, they're that quiet.

        3 Replies
        1. re: TomSwift
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          Lynn RE: TomSwift May 9, 2006 12:43 PM

          Oh, how coooool is that little light that shines on the floor to tell you "I'm on!" I also love the QUIET feature, since we dine in the kitchen a lot!
          Tom, I think you and I travel the same streets of Southern California? Where are you purchasing yours?

          1. re: Lynn
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            TomSwift RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 01:33 PM

            We haven't shopped price yet but we'll obviously get it at the cheapest place for that model. We most recently were at Universal on Ventura in Studio City. Frank, the assistant manager, really knows his stuff and was very helpful. The pushbutton model is # DWHD 64C and is $1,149 at Universal. The digital, quieter one is # DWHD 94B and is $1,669. Good hunting!

            1. re: TomSwift
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              Lynn RE: TomSwift May 9, 2006 01:34 PM

              Thanks!

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          Monty RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 12:58 PM

          We have an Asko, made in Sweden and it's been outstanding. All stainless, inside and out. All contols are on the top of the door so there is nothing external. Can't tell when it's running it's so quiet.

          6 Replies
          1. re: Monty
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            Lynn RE: Monty May 9, 2006 01:02 PM

            How long have you had it? Have you had any repairs and/or problems?

            1. re: Lynn
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              Monty RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 02:32 PM

              Put it in 7 years ago when we remodeled the kitchen. It has been problem free, no repairs, nothing.

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                Lynn RE: Monty May 9, 2006 02:41 PM

                7 years is pretty gooda by today's standards...thanks for this info.

                1. re: Lynn
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                  emilief RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 03:34 PM

                  WE have had an ASko dishwasher for 15 years and have had no problems with it at all. Not one single repair required (oh, I may have just jixed it!). We have a Kitchenaide Refrigerator that we like very much. A side by side built in. WE have a Subzero in our summer house (it is no wbout 15 years old) and we have subzero refrigerator draws in our mudroom (they are about three years old) and they are both extremely NOISEY. In our summer house we can hear the refrigerator from our bedroom upstairs. The refrigerator draws are equally loud even though they are very new. We lookedinto getting Bosch ovens recently and we were told that they are the "inexpensive" version of another well known appliance maker (I forget which one).

                  1. re: emilief
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                    Lynn RE: emilief May 9, 2006 03:47 PM

                    More info -- thanks!

                    1. re: emilief
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                      MsDiPesto RE: emilief May 11, 2006 12:44 PM

                      I think the brand he meant may have been Gagganeau, it's similar to the Bosch equipment.

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              cheapskate RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 01:15 PM

              We bought a Bosch dishwasher in 2001 and LOVE IT. Super quiet (but no light at the bottom). Cleans very well and never had a problem. For refrigerators, please do NOT buy a Viking - I sure wish I hadn't.

              If you want more opinions on this subject than you could ever imagine, post a query at the link below.

              Link: http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/appl/

              3 Replies
              1. re: cheapskate
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                Lynn RE: cheapskate May 9, 2006 01:24 PM

                Thanks! I will check out the link!
                You have answered my concerns with the Bosch dishwasher...5 years of smooth operation...I guess that's pretty good! The downside to buying a Bosch -- so I have been advised -- is the repair problem. I have been told that it is more difficult to repair and get parts, etc. etc. While this makes no sense to me, most that have advised me like KitchenAide. But the Bosch seems to be better...?????

                1. re: Lynn
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                  cheapskate RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 01:40 PM

                  I think these high end appliances just have problems. We've never had one with the dishwasher, but I've read about others who did. Our refrigerator (Viking), oven (Bosch) and cooktop (Thermador -- now GE) have all given us significant headaches and probably will keep doing so in the future. (the cheapo frigidaire washer/dryer does 6 loads a day and never complains -- go figure) I'm generally not a fan of those extended warranties, but I bought a 10-year one for the GE cooktop after our Thermador broke down more than four times in 5 years - repair costs had already doubled the purchase price by the time we cried uncle and got a different one. If something happens now, it's not my problem. DEFINITELY ask about service when you buy and if possible buy from a place that has its own service dept. (we did not and are continually sorry....)

                  1. re: cheapskate
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                    Lynn RE: cheapskate May 9, 2006 02:02 PM

                    This is very sound advice, indeed! I, too, run multiple loads a day (dishwasher and clothes washer and dryer) and I just don't want to have to worry about them! HOWEVER, I think some of the new machines are just not very reliable. I opened our Kenmore Elite Top-of-the-Line washer to find that all the clips and other metal parts are rusty (this was only about a year after purchase!)...duh!!! We have had nothing but trouble with our washer and dryer. Now this same washing machine leaks...am I not surprised? We did have service agreements; however, they could not deliver the service in a reasonable period of time. So, I am very concerned about my next major appliance purchase.
                    I agree that the electronics are quite costly to repair...what to do? This is why I am doing some "homework" prior to our purchase, and I appreciate your input.

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                Larry RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 01:37 PM

                Once you've narrowed down the field a bit, grab a few of the glasses and dishes you use the most and "try on" the racks in each of the top runners.

                We eliminated a couple of models because they wouldn't hold the large stoneware ramen bowls we use all the time. Others couldn't efficiently hold the shallow salad bowls or taller wine and champagne flutes. Granted I don't need to wash the flutes every day, but when I have a party I like to be able to put 20 of them in and not have to worry.

                1 Reply
                1. re: Larry
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                  Lynn RE: Larry May 9, 2006 01:53 PM

                  Very wise...I like your "hands on" approach...good advice -- thanks!

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                  smokey RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 02:37 PM

                  Just bought a bosch dishwasher a month ago and I can't say enough good things about it. It's super quiet and it gets things clean. I heart my Bosch.

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                  1. re: smokey
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                    Lynn RE: smokey May 9, 2006 02:39 PM

                    Wow! I am beginning to see a pattern here...Bosch gets many votes!

                    1. re: smokey
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                      PekoePeony RE: smokey May 9, 2006 09:57 PM

                      My bro bought a Bosch to replace my 20-year-old GE dishwasher and honestly I hate it. It doesn't have a drying cycle so my dishes are damp after being cleaned. Stuck-on food remains stuck-on unless I scrub my dishes off beforehand -- basically I regard it as much a big, expensive dish rinser. The good things I can say about it are that it's quiet, it's gentle on wine glasses, and it's attractive (clean-looking stainless steel). But for the cost you'd think it'd be much better at washing dishes!

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                      sudiepav RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 02:53 PM

                      IMHO, KitchenAid is no longer the KA of the past. My MIL had a KA dishwasher, stainless, put in about 1952 which gave them 35 years of great service. The KA that replaced it was a plastic-y shadow of the former. One of my many dishwashers was a KA...lasted about 5 years before it was costlier to replace than fix. We have a Kenmore Elite..loved it at the old house. This one is 3 years newer and not as quiet or efficient as the old. What I really miss is my SubZero refrigerator. It has separate compressors for the refrigerator and freezer. The freezer is supercold and the ice never gets stale. I never had the problems of freezing produce that I've had in every other fridge I've had. I presently have a Whirlpool side-by-side and an Amana. Both do a bang-up job at freezing produce. Freezers aren't cold enough for any but very short term storage. When we re-do the kitchen, a new Sub-Zero is first on my list.

                      1 Reply
                      1. re: sudiepav
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                        Lynn RE: sudiepav May 9, 2006 03:40 PM

                        I agree! We are dealing with a lot more "disposable" products today. Taking care of an appliance does not guarantee its longevity if the appliance is not built to stand the test of time! As I posted here in response to someone else, our Kenmore Elite top-of-the-line (at the time) washer and dryer have been a continuous disappointment. Perhaps we are searching for a quality that just doesn't exist today. Perhaps a machine that offers 6 years instead of 20 is good enough?????

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                        Nyleve RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 03:13 PM

                        I bought a new dishwasher in January. After much research and consideration, I got a Kenmore Elite - tall tub, stainless interior. IT IS FANTASTIC. It is so quiet that you can run a load of dishes while having dinner in the kitchen and you cannot hear it (made sure I got the one with the highest rated quiet package). It cleans beautifully and I can load tallish wineglasses in the adjustable upper rack - no problem.

                        I looked at the Bosch too but finally settled on the Kenmore because of the cost and availability of servicing in our area. We live outside a large urban center and - trust me - there's probably not many people who will carry parts or know how to fix a Bosch. This is definitely something to weigh when you make your decision. I read a lot about dishwashers on (I think it was) Epinions.com. The Kenmore ELITE (Elite is the important part) kept coming up to the top. Bought it. Love it. Very happy.

                        2 Replies
                        1. re: Nyleve
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                          Lynn RE: Nyleve May 9, 2006 03:43 PM

                          This is good input. However, I am Kenmore-Elite-shy since we have both their top-of-the-line washer and dryer and are very dissatisfied with both...with several years of problems.

                          1. re: Lynn
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                            Shazam RE: Lynn Jul 1, 2007 06:25 PM

                            That Kenmore Elite may in fact be a Bosch - they and Whirlpool seem to be the two suppliers for the current crop of Kenmore dishwashers.

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                          MsDiPesto RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 04:21 PM

                          We put in a new kitchen last year, and chose the Kenmore Trio Fridge (without the external water dispenser, it has a chilled filtered tap just inside the door that I love), and the Kitchen Aid Architect series dishwasher with hidden touch membrane controls. I have nothing bad to say about either appliance.
                          P.S. I have Kenmore washer and dryer too, and while I have mixed opinions about them I know the fridge is made by either LG or another mfgr.

                          4 Replies
                          1. re: MsDiPesto
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                            adamclyde RE: MsDiPesto May 9, 2006 04:36 PM

                            I think we recently bought the same fridge - kenmore elite trio with the water on the inside (so the kids wouldn't be constantly playing with it... )

                            So far (2 months in), we love it. It's a great fridge and uses space efficiently.

                            - Adam

                            1. re: MsDiPesto
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                              Lynn RE: MsDiPesto May 9, 2006 06:45 PM

                              We, too, have the Kenmore washer and dryer set, and are very disappointed with both. So, I am glad to hear your opinion on the frige.
                              We were also advised to purchase a Kitchen Aide dishwasher. What else did you consider, and why did you choose the KA over the others?

                              1. re: Lynn
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                                MsDiPesto RE: Lynn May 10, 2006 08:25 AM

                                Truth be told, the builder was anxious for us to buy something from his supplier, as we were going out and getting most major appliances/fixtures on our own. So even though a couple with an all KA kitchen told us that all their stuff broke down on them frequently, we found that this met our requirements for decor and function (all SS exterior and interior, plus a sanitizing cycle and the hidden controls) at a pretty reasonable price with his discount. So far, so good! It was installed in Spring of 2005, and we run it almost every day.

                                1. re: MsDiPesto
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                                  MsDiPesto RE: MsDiPesto May 10, 2006 08:27 AM

                                  Oh, forgot to add, it's quiet enough, not as quiet as an ASKO or Bosch, but we couldn't swing one of those after this extensive project.

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                              AlexCasa RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 04:51 PM

                              Just finished a kitchen and put in the Fisher and Paykel Dish Drawers and the LG French Door refrigerator. Love them both, so far.

                              6 Replies
                              1. re: AlexCasa
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                                Lynn RE: AlexCasa May 9, 2006 06:42 PM

                                I know Consumer Reports likes the LG frige, so I am glad to hear this. Is it large enough? We looked at it but it seemed small, even tho the dimensions were large?????
                                How new is the Fisher and Paykel dishwasher? What prompted you to this purchase...the drawers?

                                1. re: Lynn
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                                  beteez RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 07:13 PM

                                  Built a new house in Dec & got the LG Sidexside & DW love them both DW is very adjustable inside & quieter than a bosch I used to have. Would recomend both. Also got kenmore induction cooktop & thermador oven.

                                  1. re: beteez
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                                    Lynn RE: beteez May 9, 2006 07:29 PM

                                    Sorry to repeat, but as I mentioned to someone else, I know that Consumer Reports really likes the LG refrigerator. Thanks for your input.

                                  2. re: Lynn
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                                    PekoePeony RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 10:03 PM

                                    I recently bought a LG stainless side by side. It's really attractive and bigger (externally and cu ft size -- the one I have is just under 26 cu ft) than my old standard GE fridge. However it seems to hold a lot less in the fridge part, which is very disappointing to me. I live by myself and my fridge is continuously full for day-to-day stuff; if I want to entertain I have no idea how the extra food will fit! :(

                                    1. re: Lynn
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                                      AlexCasa RE: Lynn May 10, 2006 11:51 AM

                                      The fridge is counter depth, so it is smaller but we shop at most once a week, so we don't need that much space. We also have a beverage fridge, so soda, beer, juice boxes go there. I like the fridge on top. My only complaint (small one) is that the freezer section is small. We're thinking about a small freezer for the basement, but we're still undecided.

                                      As for the Dish Drawers, we liked the idea of running them independant of each other. Each nights dinner dishes (family of 4) are placed in the drawer and we run it. We can get a load started of the days dishes and then put the evenings dishes in the 2nd drawer if the 1st load isn't done yet. That flexability is nice.

                                      So far so good, but it's only been a month or so.

                                    2. re: AlexCasa
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                                      MellieMac RE: AlexCasa Jun 27, 2007 08:31 AM

                                      Ditto on LG. I just bought one of their refrigerators in the titanium finish. No fingerprints!!! I am also finding my food stays fresher much longer.

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                                      oakjoan RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 05:31 PM

                                      We got a Maytag fridge with the freezer on the side. Got it for that reason - lots of freezer room.

                                      It is verrrrry disappointing! The freezer first builds up water on the bottom shelf, which freezes into a large iceberg containing any items on that shelf. Need to whack with a hammer if I forget to get rid of it when the ice is thin. It also leaks onto the floor. When this happens, the fridge loses coldness. Phooey! It's less than 3 years old.

                                      At first I thought maybe I was overfilling the freezer and that was causing the prob. Nope. Did a major clean-out of the freezer (We had bean soup from 1856 during that period). Same problem started right up.

                                      1 Reply
                                      1. re: oakjoan
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                                        Lynn RE: oakjoan May 9, 2006 06:38 PM

                                        Thanks -- I didn't receive too much input on refrigerators, so I appreciate this info. I just never thought I would have to think and worry about our major appliances...just something else, huh!

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                                        Sherri RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 06:44 PM

                                        As several posters have already mentioned, a side-by- side refrigerator freezer combination generally shares a compressor. This means either a too-warm freezer unit or frozen produce -- your choice. That is not the case with the 48" Subzero unit. There are separate compressors for each side. I learned this when researching my own purchase of separate refrigerator and freezer units. Each of these Subzero units is 36" wide and they have worked flawlessly for four years. Love them and would replace with exactly the same units if we had a catastrophe. Ditto for the Viking dishwasher. It really isn't a Viking except for the front panel - the "innards" are made by Asko. It cleans well and is silent -- I can't ask for more than that. Good luck on your project.

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                                          Marie RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 07:15 PM

                                          In my opinion, a dishwasher needs a garbage disposal in the bottom, or "hard food disposal". The expensive dishwashers use filters that need to be cleaned rather than a garbage disposal. Is that a joke or what? We bought a Miele or something like that when remodeled our kitchen in the last house. I cried when I found out I would have to wash the dishes BEFORE I put them in the dishwasher. In our new house we passed on the fancy stainless interior choices because, like the Miele, they did not have a garbage disposal and I would have to clean some cruddy filter every month. I was told they are "european style" and made for cities in europe that do not allow garbage disposals. What's the point of having a dishwasher if it only takes clean dishes???!!!

                                          16 Replies
                                          1. re: Marie
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                                            Lynn RE: Marie May 9, 2006 07:27 PM

                                            Is this true for all the higher-end models and brands?

                                            1. re: Lynn
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                                              Monty RE: Lynn May 9, 2006 07:38 PM

                                              Have never heard this before. Then again, I at least wash the leftover food off the dishes before putting them in. In 7 years our Asko has never clogged or backed up.

                                              1. re: Monty
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                                                meb903 RE: Monty May 9, 2006 07:43 PM

                                                i've had a miele for 10 years and a bosch for 4 years. never had a clog in either one. however, we do rinse (not wash) our dishes. i don't know anything about a filter having to be cleaned.

                                                1. re: meb903
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                                                  Melanie Wong RE: meb903 May 10, 2006 12:17 AM

                                                  The reason that Bosch, Miele, and other European models are so quiet is that they do not have the garbage disposal. After a couple years, if you do not rinse your dishes, you will need to clean the filter. Check the manual.

                                                  I bought the top of the line Kitchenaid "S" model 6 months ago. It is extremely quiet in an "open" kitchen peninsula. I chose it because it has the stainless steel interior (and exterior too), good repair record, no need to change a filter, heat drying (no condensation on wet plastic dishes), adjustable top rack for stemware, and it has a larger interior than Bosch to fit a larger load. Going in, I had expected to buy a Miele or Bosche, but decided those were not for me after deciding that the above features were important to me.

                                                  1. re: Melanie Wong
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                                                    Lynn RE: Melanie Wong May 10, 2006 12:47 AM

                                                    Your response is very much along the lines of our thinking on this (I am the original poster). We were advised to consider the Kitchen Aide "S" model over the others. I guess it is pretty early for you to know how it will weather time, but one poster here was quite unhappy with his/her KA...don't know the model. Have you had any problems to date? Might I ask about how much you paid, since we are considering the exact machine you purchased? Thanks a lot!

                                                    1. re: Lynn
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                                                      Kirk RE: Lynn May 10, 2006 11:30 AM

                                                      I'd encourage you to take a look at the Electrolux Icon. We've had one for six months, and are very pleased with it.

                                            2. re: Marie
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                                              toodie jane RE: Marie May 9, 2006 08:20 PM

                                              My higher end Maytag has done the same thing. Tiny hard bits of organic material are sprayed onto the dishes in the last rinse. (I scrape and clean off hardened-on food. I make sure the disposal is clean. I've tried different detergents and cycles. Nothing seems to work.) The repair people are no help.

                                              I have to wash my dishes AFTER they come out. It has reduced me to tears on more than one occasion. SOB dishwasher is getting trashed first chance I get. Should've gotten another GE. It cleaned dishes beautifully but was VERY noisy, which is why the Maytag.

                                              Is this true about the 'european style' dishwashers w/o grinders? ARGGGHHHH!!!!!

                                              1. re: toodie jane
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                                                Marie RE: toodie jane May 9, 2006 08:59 PM

                                                We did not get the high end "Profile whatever" GE because it did not have a "hard food disposal". We got the next level down. The cheaper ones come with the disposer but the high end ones are built to emulate the european appliances.

                                                Also, the disposer does make some noise when it comes on..only for a short period of time but you can hear the disposal in action. Its music to my ears!

                                                1. re: Marie
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                                                  JK Grence (the Cosmic Jester) RE: Marie May 9, 2006 11:19 PM

                                                  I have a friend who used to work for GE's tech support. I can now tell you don't bother with the ultra-high end Monogram line. Except for some minor trim and a few thousand dollars on the price tag, it is completely identical to the Profile line.

                                                  Link: http://thecosmicjester.blogspot.com

                                                  1. re: JK Grence (the Cosmic Jester)
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                                                    Marie RE: JK Grence (the Cosmic Jester) May 10, 2006 10:45 AM

                                                    When we bought our dishwasher, the Profile Performance had a garbage disposal and the Monogram did not. The Profile Performance had a good CU report, the Monogram had a bad one. The Profile Performance dishwasher is in a large open great room. Its quiet enough for us. I would not suggest that anyone buy it. It has a clearly visable built in filter where you have to take the dishwasher half apart (maybe a dozen screws and several parts) to clean the filter.
                                                    I also dislike our GE Monogram electric convection oven. It looks great but performs poorly. And it does not maintain temperature well. Perhaps for that reason, it does not have a temperature indicator.

                                                2. re: toodie jane
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                                                  pilotgirl210 RE: toodie jane May 10, 2006 07:01 PM

                                                  I love my G.E., too. It is noisy, but I get around that by setting the timer at bedtime for four or five hours out so it turns itself on in the middle of the night. So I hear nothing! About once a month I put JetDry into the little dispenser and my dishes and glassware come out great. Don't think I'd ever buy another brand. That's how happy I am with the G.E.

                                                  1. re: toodie jane
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                                                    toodie jane RE: toodie jane May 14, 2006 02:44 PM

                                                    many thanks for the comments on the food grinders and lack thereof in more costly models. It will be a question I now know to ask. Also about a filter to clean.

                                                    So, to carry this idea out--does having a grinder always mean a noisy wash? It seemed to me it was the woosh, soosh, clank, clank that got to me.

                                                    (out water softening system comes on at midnight, so unless I run the dishes right after dinner, can't do it at night.)

                                                    1. re: toodie jane
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                                                      aking RE: toodie jane Jun 26, 2007 11:00 AM

                                                      Toodie Jane, I also have a top-of-the-line Maytag DW that is now 6 years old. Very quiet and I've not had a problem with it getting things clean (although I'm from the old school--I still run the sponge over the plates before I put them in). BUT my complaint is that the top rack doesn't always roll smoothly or stay on the track. I'm either trying to get it to roll in or out, or trying to get it back on track. Either way, I can't always get it pushed in far enough to close the door completely. I sometimes think I would have less headaches by buying the cheapest model, then replacing every few years. I have a 6-7 year old Jenn-Air SS refrigerator, and I am now in the market for a new frig since it is on its last legs--frozen ice on the bottom shelf of the freezer, and I can barely keep the frig side cold. Water leaks on the floor and the repairman says he can't find the problem. My parents had 2 refrig and a KA DW that lasted over 20 years. Ah! Those were the days!

                                                      1. re: aking
                                                        liu RE: aking Jun 26, 2007 11:31 AM

                                                        "Ah! Those were the days!" As well, our KA DW lasted 20 years. It was not top-of-the-line, but perhaps one step down. Only toward the end of its life did I have a few repairs.
                                                        We replaced it about nine months ago with a Miele. I can offer further information as requested. Just a few months ago we replaced our 20-year-old GE refrigerator with a KitchenAid French door style.

                                                    2. re: Marie
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                                                      Tracy L. RE: Marie May 9, 2006 10:40 PM

                                                      I have a low end, portable, bargain basement, DW from Sears and do not have a garbage disposal. We don't rinse the dishes unless they are very messy, we only scrape the excess food off. In the 2 years we've had the DW there have been no clogs either in the DW or in the sink and the dishes come out pristine. Makes me really want to do my homework when we finally remodel the kitchen.

                                                      1. re: Marie
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                                                        smokey RE: Marie May 10, 2006 01:37 PM

                                                        I've got a bosch, don't rinse my dishes at all and they come out clean. There's some filter at the bottom that I need to clean out. No big deal to me. I had a *super* low end dishwasher before that got nothing clean, regardless of the fact that it had a hard food disposal. Hard food disposal does not, de facto, equal clean dishes.

                                                        As for dishes being damp, shrug. No big deal to me, frankly. Usually the stainless steel interior residual heat is enough to get them dry. If it's not, they'll dry eventually.

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                                                        sally from LA RE: Lynn May 10, 2006 11:41 AM

                                                        Re dishwashers- I recently replaced my old but efficient and reliable KitchenAid for aesthetic reasons only - what a mistake - the new KitchenAid has developed a leak already. The Kitchen Aid serviceman told me that in his opinion Whirlpool/Kenmore dishwashers were the most reliable, bar none.

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                                                          Eldon Kreider RE: Lynn May 10, 2006 07:38 PM

                                                          Check the maximum height of dishwasher that will fit under your counter. Some of the newer models are taller than the older models from the same manufacturer. When we replaced a dying Kitchen Aid several years ago, we could not use the current models because they were too tall.

                                                          Dimensions are important for refrigerators in three ways. Will it fit in existing space with adequate clearance for handles, door swing and air flow? Can you get it through the door? How much useable space is inside for the things you keep in the refrigerator? There are a lot of variations out there.

                                                          Check energy efficiency ratings including how much water is used per dishwasher load. There is quite a bit of variation on both, which affects operating cost.

                                                          Fancy gimmicks on appliances add cost and seem to have an inordinate number of reliability problems. Most lines of dishwashers use more sound insulation in the more expensive models. The best tradeoffs may be in the middle of lines. Note that most manufacturers make a wide range of quality with many of the builders' lines being cheap junk in every sense of the term.

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                                                          1. re: Eldon Kreider
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                                                            Tbird RE: Eldon Kreider May 10, 2006 09:43 PM

                                                            Go to Sears and look at the line. They install and stand behind their products. They will replace what doesn't work out. Ask for their terms. It is worth it in the long run. I bought discount stove, fridge, washer and dryer from big box place and am still regretting it. Just waiting for them to gasp last breath. Fridge already gone, washer on last legs and dryer only works on some cycles. Oh, yes the oven door is sprung and the electronic burners don't work, so I use a match to lite.

                                                          2. w
                                                            willow RE: Lynn May 21, 2006 02:52 PM

                                                            I'm in the market for both. I miss my old bottom freezer refrigerator (sold with our old house -- don't miss the house, just the appliances!)
                                                            Now I want a french door bottom freezer refrigerator! What could be better, and the Amana has that big deli tray compartment that could actually accomodate collards, leeks . . . and a brussels sprouts stalk.

                                                            Anyone have experience w/ a new french door bottom refrigerator?

                                                            As for dishwashers, I'm leaning towards buying two (2!). Not the Fisher & Paykel drawers, but two full size ones. I find after a big dinner I end up with a sinkful of dirty dishes the next a.m. that I couldn't load into the dishwasher because it was running. I think I would trade up(!) from a Bosch to 2 Kenmores.

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                                                              budlit RE: Lynn Jun 27, 2007 08:36 AM

                                                              DO NOT GET a KitchenAide!!!! I got a top of the line kitchenaide and in 5 years it broke down 8 times. With 2 to 4 weeks down time between each breakdown. The absolute worst customer service. I even had an extended warranty. I ended up buying a new Bosch (which I love) and taking my stainless steel worthless K.A. down to the curb.

                                                              10 Replies
                                                              1. re: budlit
                                                                liu RE: budlit Jun 27, 2007 10:11 AM

                                                                budlit -- Are you referring to a KitchenAid dishwasher or fridge?
                                                                We just bought the KA fridge - French door style -- and in the few months that we have had it, no service calls yet!

                                                                1. re: liu
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                                                                  brendastarlet RE: liu Jun 27, 2007 10:28 AM

                                                                  KitchenAid is made by Whirlpool and it should have roughly the same reliability record. I have been hearing good things about LG; it is sold widely around the world and just getting to the States in the past few years. My friend who sells appliances at Lowe's says it is as good as higher-priced brands, and LGs come in smaller sizes.

                                                                  Lynn, one bit of advice: try to get something other than stainless steel, especially if you are going to sell your home in the next few years. High-end designers are moving to black or white, now that stainless is the norm in even the cheapest condos. (Check out the European design magazines, to which I am addicted, and you'll see what I mean. All the appliances are white.) Within a few years, it could look like the same cliche as avocado or harvest gold in the 1970s. Not only that, but stainless shows fingerprints.

                                                                  1. re: brendastarlet
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                                                                    Shazam RE: brendastarlet Jun 27, 2007 10:02 PM

                                                                    You're too late. Bisque is already on the comeback trail :)

                                                                    1. re: Shazam
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                                                                      sarge RE: Shazam Jun 28, 2007 08:58 AM

                                                                      I'm looking for a new DW too. I looked at a Bosch but am concerned about the lack of a dryer. What is "condensation drying"? Is that a fancy term for drip drying?

                                                                      I'm a little turned off by that filter in the bottom of the Bosch too.

                                                                      1. re: sarge
                                                                        liu RE: sarge Jun 28, 2007 11:30 AM

                                                                        Hi, sarge. This is the main reason that we moved from the Bosch purchase to a Miele. We decided on the Miele because I like to put the dishes away shortly after the cycle ends. With the Bosch and its condensation style of drying, the dishes will not be as dry as with the Miele or other that has a drying heater. The plastic pieces will, in fact, be quite wet with the condensation method.

                                                                        We have had our Miele about nine months now and have had no problems. I love the third tier for flatwear. I do find the drawer prongs a bit tight for our stoneware plates, but we are learning to adapt.

                                                                        1. re: sarge
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                                                                          Shazam RE: sarge Jul 1, 2007 03:02 PM

                                                                          I actually just had a Bosch installed to replace my useless Whirlpool Gold dishwasher, and the condensation drying works just fine. Plastic pieces do not come out wet at all. In fact, I'd say it dries just as well as my Whirlpool Gold did, which did have a heating element.

                                                                          Oh, and about the filter. It hasn't been a problem so far. I've done four loads of dishes since Friday and there's been nothing in there. I never pre-rinse or even bother to scrape food off.

                                                                          1. re: Shazam
                                                                            liu RE: Shazam Jul 1, 2007 05:21 PM

                                                                            This is good information, Shazam. I am glad to hear from someone who is having real experience with the Bosch, instead of simply trusting the sales persons. I am also glad to know that you like your Bosch; it looks like a really good dishwasher!

                                                                    2. re: liu
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                                                                      budlit RE: liu Jun 28, 2007 11:39 AM

                                                                      meant to reply to liu

                                                                      1. re: liu
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                                                                        budlit RE: liu Jun 28, 2007 11:39 AM

                                                                        dishwasher

                                                                        1. re: budlit
                                                                          liu RE: budlit Jun 28, 2007 11:57 AM

                                                                          Hi, budlit!
                                                                          Whew! I was hoping that you were not referring to the KA fridge that we just installed!

                                                                          Similarly, we were advised by our repair tech that the KitchenAid dishwasher was not made very well these days. We were tempted because our 20-year-old one had a long stay, but after shopping we realized that there are a lot of choices out there that we did not have 20 years ago. Of course, you can't tell from just looking, because on the sales floor, the KitchenAid looks really good; I still like its interior set-up. However, ultimately I think one needs to go to a showroom or warehouse where you can trust someone to direct you.

                                                                    3. ktmoomau RE: Lynn Jun 28, 2007 01:37 PM

                                                                      We just bought a bosch dishwasher/stovetop-oven and fridge. I love the dishwasher. the racks are nice because they move and you can fit so much in there. Ours you can even raise the top shelf or take it out for tall things, you can move everything around which is so convienet most dishwashers we looked at had very little flexibility in where you put things. My mother in law has the drawer dishwasher and hates it because it is so akward. We never have a problem with drying. Ours keeps the dishes in for a while after so they dry before it beeps 5 or 6 times for finished, but we don't do multiple loads a day. I have to say I am really pleased. Plastic containers may have a little water on top, but nothing I have ever really had to struggle drying. Also I rarely have to clean the filter but it is in an easy to see and reach location in case you do. There convention gas stove is wonderful too, we have been really happy. We like our fridge too, it is a kenmore elite, but we had very few choices because we had such a small space. Ice on the door in a basket so when I am having a party I can take it out dump it easily in an ice bucket and it will make more. Also it is very easy if you are making frozen drinks. Also all the shelving moves easily and it is side by side I hate bottom drawer or fridge on top refridgerators the drawer bottoms are so hard to keep organized or get something out of and I hate to have to bend down everytime I want ice I like mine on the door. But I do really really love my dishwasher it is SO quiet and works so well.

                                                                      1. j
                                                                        jlp0827 RE: Lynn Jun 30, 2007 07:16 AM

                                                                        i agree with cbauer and get a bosch so quiet i love mine as far as a fridge i would recommend an under/over where ur freezer is on bottom i couldnt stand bending down to see my food in my fridge i love opening the fridge and being eye level with my food how often do you need to go in your freezer, and now they make the freezer with the drawer that slides out
                                                                        good luck!

                                                                        1. r
                                                                          Raymondo RE: Lynn Jun 30, 2007 09:11 AM

                                                                          We have had our Bosch since we moved into our home 11 years age. First thing we bought. Super quite and no problems with exception of the indicator light which says that the disher are clean burned out. Could not find the part from Bosch anywhere and finally in desperation went to an electronics store with the bulb and bought 2 replacements for $1.00 neach. Put them in myself - had to unsolder the old one and solder in the new one. Probably last another 10 years or so. I would buy another Bosch in a heartbeat.

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