284773 Mon Apr 24 15:56:16 -0700 2006 29 31 Home Cooking 0 1523287 Seems I just can't find or make pancakes like I remember having in the 60's. They had a more intense flavor, not corn, (GOD FORBID BISQWIK, my wife's salvation in a box) but real pancake-flavored pancakes. How have ingredients or batter changed in 30 years? I want to make the same one's I grew up on! Any Pancake lovers out there with the secret recipe (yeah, I know, use seltzer.) Need the real truth what makes them good. DRINK MOXIE! Mon Apr 24 15:56:16 -0700 2006 0 The Moxie Boy 1 1523290 I read an article somewhere in the last couple of months that talked about the fact that ingredients have changed alot over the last 40 years - including flour & eggs. That may be the reason. Mon Apr 24 15:58:17 -0700 2006 1523287 0 MMRuth 2 1523307 Do you remember where you read that article? It sounds interesting... Mon Apr 24 16:29:11 -0700 2006 1523290 0 Ms.Paris 3 1523317 I wish I could remember offhand - I'm guessing it is the NY Times ... Mon Apr 24 17:09:27 -0700 2006 1523307 0 MMRuth 4 1523433 I did some pretty extensive searching on the NYT website but couldn't find the article. If I find it, I'll post. Tue Apr 25 08:07:46 -0700 2006 1523317 0 MMRuth 2 1523367 Memories can also change over 40 years. So can taste buds. Some flavors taste more intense to children. I used to joke that I couldn't stand the bitter tastes of coffee and beer until I was 40. paulj Mon Apr 24 20:04:50 -0700 2006 1523290 0 paulj 1 1523292 I assume by the Moxie oath that you are a New Englander. Where did you grow up? Was the flour fresher there? How thick or delicate were the pancakes? How big? Slightly sour or no? The reason I ask is the answers may provide clues about the recipes you may need. Mon Apr 24 16:00:51 -0700 2006 1523287 0 Karl S 2 1523293 While they are not pancakes, for my money the gold standard for griddle cakes are the immortal yeast-raised waffles of Fannie Farmer, which even Marion Cunningham (in her edition of the 100th anniversary edition of The Fannie Farmer Cookbook (1996)) says is what she'd prefer to eat more than anything else with Fannie Farmer at table. And the recipe is sooooooo simple it's not funny. It's what I invariably serve for breakfast for overnight guests, because they all make clear in advance that they are waiting for them.... Mon Apr 24 16:03:34 -0700 2006 1523292 0 Karl S 3 1523306 I agree that the raised waffles from Fanny Farmer cookbook are the very best. RE pancakes, I use the recipe from fannie Farmer also. However, I have a book that was given to me in the 60's and the recipes from the 1996 version are quite different (although I do not know if the recipes from the pancakes and waffles are different as I still use my old edition. Mon Apr 24 16:28:55 -0700 2006 1523293 0 emilief 3 1523381 Could you paraphrase the recipe, please? Thanks... Mon Apr 24 22:12:13 -0700 2006 1523293 0 gooseberry 4 1523420 My paraphrase of the famous Fannie Farmer Raised Yeast Waffles: Ingredients (make 6 waffles in a Waring Pro Belgian waffle iron (6 fluid ounces of batter each), roughly 360 calories each) The night before: 1/2 cup warm water (90-110F; too hot will kill the yeast) 1 package active dry yeast 2 cups warm milk 1/2 cup (1 stick) unsalted butter, melted 1 teaspoon salt 1 teaspoon sugar 2 cups all-purpose flour (dip-and-sweep method, not spoon method) (I actually just weigh flour nowadays to avoid confusion: a cup of AP flour is 5 ounces on the scale) The morning of cooking: 2 large eggs, beaten 1/4 teaspoon baking soda (not baking powder) Put the water in a large mixing bowl and sprinkle the yeast over it. Stir with a wooden spoon to dissolve and let stand to proof for about 5 minutes. Meanwhile, warm up the milk (I use the microwave) and melt the butter (ditto). Then, add the milk, butter, salt, sugar and flour to the yeasty water. Mix/beat until smooth and fully blended. Cover the bowl (I use the self-sealing plastic wrap) and let stand overnight at room temperature. (I put the light on in the oven and stick it in there, to avoid drafts and to keep a bit warm – the light gives off a bit of warmth in that contained environment.) The next morning, add the beaten eggs and baking soda and stir until it is thoroughly mixed. Preheat the oven to 200F, and *warm the dining plates*. Waffles may also be kept warm in the oven, but don’t stack them. Use per the directions for the waffle iron. (Mine uses 6 fluid ounces per waffle.) The batter will keep refrigerated for a few days; just stir it back together before using. Recommended toppings: warm maple (dark amber) or fruit syrup, Olivio (easier to spread lightly than butter), and cinnamon sugar. Small berries, too. Tue Apr 25 04:54:09 -0700 2006 1523381 0 Karl S 5 1523527 I made yeast waffles (i.e. Belgian) from the new Joy of Cooking recently. An hour of rising time was plenty. The eggs (both the yolks and the beaten whites) were added before rising. I was quite happy with the results. Note that waffles, especially crisp ones, have lots of butter. In the past I've also made 'mock' sourdough pancakes, using the over night rising. I say 'mock' because I started with yeast rather than a handed-down sourdough starter. paulj Tue Apr 25 13:29:06 -0700 2006 1523420 0 paulj 6 1523531 What I love about the classic Fannie Farmer recipe is that there is no advantage in separating whites from yolks. It's such a simple and durable batter. And of course waffles are full of fat (note I did provide the caloric load per 6 ounce Belgian waffle!) but they can still benefit from a bit of a butter on the top (actually, Olivio works really well for this; having grown up on margerine and then switched to butter upon independence, I generally hate butter substitutes, but Olivio is a rare exception, and can actually taste better than butter when used primarily for melting glazing of veggies or waffles et cet.) Tue Apr 25 13:34:32 -0700 2006 1523527 0 Karl S 3 1523675 If anyone owns Rose Levy Beranbaum's "Cake Bible," it also contains this recipe (not a reworking, the exact recipe, used with permission from Marion Cunningham)...just in case you don't want to keep track of a jotted/printed-out recipe. I have continued to do them this way, but there was an interesting article in Cook's Illustrated some time back about yeast-raised waffles. Their conclusion was, in the classic recipe, you save mixing in the eggs until the morning because the batter is left out overnight, and you add the baking soda to help them rise because leaving the batter at room temp for so long essentially kills the yeast's leavening power. Their solution was to use rapid-rise yeast and mix up everything including the eggs the night before, then put the batter in the fridge overnight. Other than that the recipe was identical to the FF/MC recipe except for the omission of baking powder. I don't remember if they let the batter come to room temp before baking, though that would ADD time in the morning. This is FWIW; I am completely happy with the original recipe and see no reason to change. Wed Apr 26 04:12:47 -0700 2006 1523293 0 Caitlin McGrath 1 1523320 I remember pancake and waffle flour from that era having malt in it. That might be the missing ingredient. Mon Apr 24 17:11:11 -0700 2006 1523287 0 LBQT 2 1523323 You can get Golden Malted pancake and waffle flour sometimes at Williams Sonoma and Cost Plus World Market. Great stuff. I never used it for waffles those we made completely from scratch. Seperate 2 eggs and beat the whites until stiff. Set aside. Combine 2 C. cake flour (not self rising) with 1/4 tsp. salt, and 4 tsp. baking powder. Beat in 2 1/2 C. whole milk and the egg yolks combining well. Then fold in the beaten whites and 8 Tbs. melted butter. Bake in your waffle baker according to the mfg. instructions. This will give you very light crispy waffles. You might look for a sourdough pancake recipe too. i know I've got one somewhere. i know there is one at Epicurious. You make the starter the night beore. They are awfully good. Mon Apr 24 17:25:38 -0700 2006 1523320 0 Candy 3 1523327 That's Carbon's Golden Malted and you can buy from their web site. They are great Belgian Waffles. I'd post the link to the web site, but someone might turn me in to Dad again. I think the pancake recipe I use is fairly standard, but it's an old recipe. It specifies "bacon grease." In these heart healthy days, I wonder how many recipes do call for bacon grease and how many people are using it. These pancakes are the best ever. Maybe that bacon grease is an important differance. Mon Apr 24 18:00:05 -0700 2006 1523323 0 yayadave 4 1523356 I used to do the supposedly "heart healthy" low fat thing . My MD convinced me that all of the simple carbs adn avoidance of good fats was making me fat. funny, with going back to animal fats we are both healthier. I use bacon fat/grease without thinking about it but would not in pancakes. Mon Apr 24 19:32:26 -0700 2006 1523327 0 Candy 3 1523347 Stonewallkitchen.com also has pancake mix with malt in it (which I loathe, but a lot of people like). I prefer lemon juice, baking soda, a bit of superfine sugar in mine: light, lemony, super fluffy and slightly sweet. Yum!! Mon Apr 24 18:59:35 -0700 2006 1523323 0 krissywats 2 1523339 Carnation still makes malt, it's hard to find but look around for it. Lots of small breakfast places still buy it. Mon Apr 24 18:28:13 -0700 2006 1523320 0 coll 1 1523332 I'm not sure if it's the flavor you are looking for, but I've been very happy with King Arthur's pancake mix ( I get it at Whole Foods). There is malt in the mix as well as a hint of natural maple flavoring. This combination creates a very rich flavor. And, for some reason, these pancakes turn out exceptionally tender. Good luck on your quest! Mon Apr 24 18:09:23 -0700 2006 1523287 0 David 2 1523341 yes King Arthur's are pretty good. Stonewall Kitchen has a nice mix too, but they don't have the same taste as King Arthur's - I'm guessing no malt. Mon Apr 24 18:31:44 -0700 2006 1523332 0 wurstle 3 1523442 As noted in another comment, it has malt, too. Tue Apr 25 08:37:45 -0700 2006 1523341 0 Karl S 1 1523361 I have been making pancakes for many years. Tried all the boxes, and in a pinch I use Bisquick. However, I think the secret to delicious homemade pancakes is buttermilk. I am going to give you a recipe that makes light, fluffy and flavorful pancakes. Don't make 'em thick! Buttermilk Pancakes 1 Cup flour 1 Tbs. sugar 1/2 teaspoon salt 1/2 teaspoon baking soda 1 egg 1 Cup buttermilk (accept no substitutes) 2 Tbs. melted butter 1/2 teaspoon vanilla 1. Sift flour with sugar, salt and baking soda in a mixing bowl. 2. In separate bowl beat egg, then blend in buttermilk and vanilla. 3. Add wet ingredients to the dry ingredients and beat until smooth. 4. Add butter, and more buttermilk if necessary to make thin pancakes. Cook on a griddle on high heat. Pancakes should be light and fluffy. Mon Apr 24 19:44:35 -0700 2006 1523287 0 TrishUntrapped 2 1523380 By "accept no substitutes," do you mean only buy full-fat buttermilk and not the low-fat/non-fat varieties that are much more prevalent...it's so hard to find anything else. Mon Apr 24 22:11:21 -0700 2006 1523361 0 Aaron 3 1523384 Clarification... low-fat buttermilk which is easy to find at the supermarket is fine. What I meant was don't use regular milk or regular milk soured with lemon or vinegar (mock buttermilk). Mon Apr 24 22:33:12 -0700 2006 1523380 0 TrishUntrapped 4 1523863 Isn't all buttermilk fake? It is not the milk left over from making butter. It was a different product in the '60s. May not be possible to recreate the past. Wed Apr 26 22:48:29 -0700 2006 1523384 0 Just Larry 2 1523399 What kind of flour? Mon Apr 24 23:52:42 -0700 2006 1523361 0 Spencer 3 1523428 All purpose flour. I've used everything from King Arthur to Gold Medal to store brand AP flour. Tue Apr 25 05:50:15 -0700 2006 1523399 0 TrishUntrapped 2 1523423 Yes, buttermilk is essential. The trouble with Bisquick is that it contains buttermilk powder, so if you add your own buttermilk you end up with sour overload. I get the Jiffy brand, which is blessedly buttermilk-powder free. Tue Apr 25 05:02:51 -0700 2006 1523361 0 sharuf