284097 Sun Mar 26 00:30:00 -0800 2006 12 31 Home Cooking 0 1518001 While I've heard of sous vide and have basic knowledge of the technique, I've ignored much of the recent media attention on it. Didn't think I'd ever be interested in attempting in my kitchen...til I inherited a lab-quality water bath from my molecular biologist husband. "Getting rid of an old water bath? Sure, I'll take it..." It's sitting in the garage right now, and I haven't played w/ it yet. It's basically a squarish metal contraption w/ the "cooking area" being about 14"W X 14"L X 12" deep. There is a thermometer and, of course, the ability to regulate the temp. Husband says highest possible temp. is boiling point. Mine did not come w/ a lid. So, what can I do to test this baby out? I don't have one of those food saver devices to vacuum pack an item; is it possible to rig something to get a similar effect? Any bright ideas, recipes, resources to point me to? Remember hearing about some dangers w/ botulism; what should I watch out for? Aside from sous vide, any other uses for my new toy? Thanks for your input, and I'll be sure to report back...even if that means I'll be selling this at our next garage sale. :-) Sun Mar 26 00:30:00 -0800 2006 0 Carb Lover 1 1518002 I'm jealous, CL. You have a toy suitable to do this for real. I've been playing with vacuum packed foods in my crockpot, because that's the closest thing I have. By definition, sous vide requires a vacuum sealer. I'd recommend you get one anyway, for general food storage use. I'll give you a meat based example I've done. I sear a marinated trip tip roast on the grill to color the outside & kill surface cooties (at least some of them). Then I vacuum pack the roast & set in the fridge until my crockpot gets up to temperature The crockpot's filled 1/3 way with hot tap water and set on warm, which means 151F for my crockpot. Your mileage my vary. A probe thermometer measures water temp during this whole cooking process. This is where I'd like someone to parse my theory. I pull the bagged roast out of the fridge and into the 151F water. The water dips to about 145F, or high enough to ward off cootie growth. The water temp stays at 145 until the roast temp reaches equilibrium with the water temp. Once the water temp rises, that should mean the meat temp rises more or less equally with it, right? So when the water hits 148, the internal temp of the meat is also 148 or close to it? Can any sciencist types verify that thinking? I've left the roast in there as long as overnight, and the water gets back up to 151 F. Ordinarily, if I grilled or roasted a tri tip to 151 F internal temp, it's be dry & way overdone. In this case, the meat is evenly pink from the outside to the center. It's still very moist, the marbling perfectly rendered. Very delicious, and different than grilled results. Next time, I'm going to pull the meat out when the water temp clicks up to 146 or so, and see if there's any appreciable difference from 151. Link: http://professorsalt.com Sun Mar 26 02:16:13 -0800 2006 1518001 0 Professor Salt 2 1518040 Thanks so much for your response, Professor! I'm truly inspired by your crock pot efforts. My husband says that your meat will be more or less the same temp. as your water in this medium. I'm very excited to try this and compare the results to more traditional methods of cooking. Some questions for you or others: 1. Do you marinate the meat in anything or throw in some aromatics/seasonings into your packet? I'm envisioning using something plain and boring like boneless skinless chicken breast and gently infusing w/ aromatics. 2. What brand of vacuum seal device do you use and how much should I expect to pay for a decent one? I really didn't want to have to buy one of these, as I generally don't like to freeze things or clutter up my kitchen w/ more gadgets. 3. What would happen if I didn't do the vacuum seal and just double bagged in ziploc type bags, making an effort to squeeze out as much air as possible? Would it not work at all? I'm concerned that the plastic would not hold up or be safe... I will do more research this week on the method and safety issues. All of this is foreign to me. If you or anyone else has resources to share, please do so. I'll check in w/ my progress. Sun Mar 26 13:53:23 -0800 2006 1518002 0 Carb Lover 3 1518043 Hi CL - Egullet has a whole lot of info on sous vide. You might also want to check AtlantaCuisine.com for more reports on experiments (click on forums and then do a search). People there have gone the ziplock route as well as the vac pac. I have yet to try it. Please report back. Liz Sun Mar 26 14:24:12 -0800 2006 1518040 0 LizR 4 1518057 Thanks, I was going to check out eGullet and just started my research. Linked a thread that started in 2004 and has some very useful discourse. I've only made it halfway down the first page, so will take me some time to sift through and distill. Linked one response that was particularly helpful and detailed. Some info may be dated, but it's a starting point. There's mention of some tutorial, so I will have to see if it's now available on the site somewhere. It sounds like the vacuum seal not only increases the flavor potential, but it helps to prevent bacteria growth. The FoodSaver bags are heat-resistant too, whereas I'll have to see about other plastic bags and wraps. I'm getting more excited about experimenting w/ this technique and feel lucky to have a lab water bath. I could have gotten one that was rectangular and twice the size (think: a whole salmon sous vide), but smaller one seemed more practical for me. Husband got excited about the idea of cooking an egg sous vide. Is it possible? We'll see... Link: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=39023&pid=693219&mode=threaded&show=&st=0&#entry693219 Sun Mar 26 17:16:31 -0800 2006 1518043 0 Carb Lover 5 1518059 See if you can interview a local chef who has used the technique in his or her cooking (other than Thomas Keller). Maybe David Kinch of Manresa? Sun Mar 26 17:27:33 -0800 2006 1518057 0 farmersdaughter 6 1518106 Not a bad idea seeing as we're practically neighbors in Santa Cruz. ;-) Maybe I can entice him w/ the other water bath I passed up... Was talking more w/ scientist husband tonight about doing some experimenting. It's kinda fun to collaborate w/ him since we represent a marriage of molecular gastronomy, so to speak. Not going to invest in FoodSaver just yet, but we plan to do some trials w/ eggs, varying temp. and structure. Not sure where this will lead us, but should be fun! Better get my lab coat on... Mon Mar 27 02:10:01 -0800 2006 1518059 0 Carb Lover 7 1518148 I look forward to your analysis. It is an intriguing approach, still the verdict is out... I'm finally using the Foodsaver I've had for years. If you like to cook in quantity (so you don't have to be creative each and every day!) it is a very good investment. They are pretty inexpensive at Costco. Mon Mar 27 11:16:29 -0800 2006 1518106 0 Funwithfood 8 1518159 CL, I know you said you don't like to freeze foods because of clutter and freshness issues, but think of all the other things you could do! You could vacuum seal your Penzey's spices, coffee if you buy more than you can drink in a week, certain types of flour that tend to go rancid, cookies baked for friends, the list goes on and on. Mon Mar 27 11:36:17 -0800 2006 1518148 0 nooodles 9 1518290 Thanks for your ideas, nooodles, but my chest starts to tighten at the thought of vacuum sealing all these food items in my kitchen. I'm of the mindset that if I'm sealing and storing things regularly, then I'm needlessly hoarding. I know the idea is that you save $ buying in bulk and that you're prolonging the life of your goods (and presumably wasting less), BUT these FoodSaver gadgets honestly creep me out. Call me nutty... Mon Mar 27 20:29:45 -0800 2006 1518159 0 Carb Lover 3 1518047 I recall an LAT Food Section article on a chef who used heavy duty plastic wrap, then submerged meat in cooking liquid. He wrapped the meat very, very tightly in several thicknesses of wrap. Further, he used this technique to make, what he termed, a perfect meat roulade. Sun Mar 26 15:44:03 -0800 2006 1518040 0 cls 3 1518092 In reply to your answers: 1) I've done this with a spicy miso / honey paste, but a dry rub would work too. I don't add any liquid inside the bag for my tri tip, but you certainly can. If you do, you're poaching within the bag, so you won't need as much flavorful liquid compared to traditional poaching. 2) I have a Foodsaver 845, but they make many models. I don't remember, but I think mine went for $100-150? 3) Ziplocks aren't made to be cooked in, but Foodsaver bags are. That said, the crockpost stays well below 212F, so a ziplock might be ok from a temperature safety standpoint. However, I suspect any air pockets inside a ziplock bag will keep the cooking water from transferring heat as uniformly to your food. Vacuum is alot better in this regard. Sun Mar 26 22:40:51 -0800 2006 1518040 0 Professor Salt 2 1518341 Fascinating post, Professor! While reading it a lightbulb went off in my head. I was lucky enough to eat at Per Se last year and your description of the finished meat is exactly what their Wagyu beef looked like. I've been wondering for months how they did it... now I know...it was sous vide! Tue Mar 28 02:09:18 -0800 2006 1518002 0 Petit Pois