283660 Mon Mar 06 12:35:23 -0800 2006 21 31 Home Cooking 0 1514605 Specifically, her bacon potato gratin recipe calls for the gratin dish to be covered tightly in plastic, then covered in aluminum foil, and then baked in the oven at 350 for over half an hour. Won't the plastic melt? Even if the plastic doesn't melt, what is the purpose of rigging something like this rather than just using aluminum? Also, thanks to all hounds who gave positive feedback on this book. below is my take on Goin's lemon tart (I followed the recipe exactly, then added fruit). Also, thanks to those who helped me figure out what grappage is--I made some simple sugary jelly with an overripe apple and it was great! No yellowing fruit. The tart is delicious. The tangy, smooth curd is perfect with tart fruit. Link: http://chezpei.com Image: http://www.chezpei.com/uploaded_images/DSCN0968-723329.JPG Mon Mar 06 12:35:23 -0800 2006 0 nooodles 1 1514615 Gorgeous! I'd be sad to cut into it. Mon Mar 06 13:09:36 -0800 2006 1514605 0 Dev 1 1514617 My aunts always put plastic wrap on a pyrex dish of lasagne or eggplant parm before the top layer of foil, whether it was going in the oven or the freezer. I've always done it too, without question or disaster. Perhaps it is this act of faith that makes it peel off with the foil . . . Thanks for the Goin dessert. I haven't moved past the savories in that book yet Mon Mar 06 13:13:06 -0800 2006 1514605 0 pitu 1 1514640 The trick is to layer the plastic under the aluminum. I didn't, and the lid of my braising pot just neatly melted it into the stew, where I was able to fish it out as soon as I realized. Your tart looks fantastic. Making me hungry just looking at it. -Sean Mon Mar 06 14:47:49 -0800 2006 1514605 0 Sean Dell 1 1514656 My local Italian deli/catering always does that when I order a whole lasagne to bake myself. A layer of plastic wrap, then a layer of foil. The chef/owner explained that the cheese and top layer will stick horribly to the foil. If your homemade casserole isn't stacked all the way to the top of your pan, then just foil should be fine. Mon Mar 06 15:18:27 -0800 2006 1514605 0 Christine 1 1514685 I mentioned this once before on this board... importantly, you have to use the right brand of plastic wrap. The original saran wrap can stand up to higher temps. However, most other brands, including ones I used and prefer, melt at much lower temps. If that happens, they won't do a thing for you. Also, as one other poster mentioned, it has to be in contact with the foil. As you've probably noticed, you can touch foil right from the oven because it, of it's own, doesn't "carry" (conduct?) heat. So it won't get hot and melt it. However, where the plastic wrap is on the caserole, it can melt. So use the original saran. The thinking is that they provide a truly watertight seal, whereas foil allows a little moisture and air to escape. Personally, I don't think anyone would notice the difference, so I think its kind of a silly practice. But that's just my opinion and I certainly haven't done a side-by-side comparison. Mon Mar 06 16:07:22 -0800 2006 1514605 0 adamclyde 2 1514696 the original saran is sadly no more - the stuff they are selling now as Original or Classic was reformulated last year. It does not appear to be in any way superior in use to the other films out there . Its quite a lot like the Costco films - even to the same cutter mechanism, but not at as good a price. Too bad they let a good product die (supposedly because of an environmental issue). Mon Mar 06 16:24:21 -0800 2006 1514685 0 jen kalb 3 1514699 re: the environmental issue the stuff that really clings also supposedly leaches something into whatever is wrapped in it we had this issue at my food coop . . . we kept with whatever industrial film we'd been using, and suggested people rewrap at home if they didn't want X to leach into their cheese. Mon Mar 06 16:29:06 -0800 2006 1514696 0 pitu 4 1514718 X = plasticizers, which are potential endocrine disruptors. I think actual evidence of injury to humans is sparse (children are thought to be at highest risk). The plasticizers leach out slowly at any temperature, but heating speeds it up, and transfer to food is enhanced with fat-containing foods like cheese and cold-cuts. Which films contain plasticizers and in what quantities varies a lot and I'm not up for typing that long a post, but if you google and be sure to include the word plasticizers, I'm sure you'll find everything from the conspiracy-theory crowd to the companies' loudly protesting their purity. I dare say the truth is somewhere in between. The short answer is that absent specific information, only pure polyethylene films (Glad wrap, for example) are guaranteed not to have them since they just aren't needed in the first place. Commercial PVC films are the worst offenders, with very high levels. Personally, I would avoid that but realistically, the dangers are probably pretty slight - how often would you be doing this? But anyway, in addition to all that, I just checked packages and while the Glad wrap label says nothing about conventional ovens at all, the Reynold's package specifically warns against it. Even though it's probably there mainly for CYA purposes, I'd hesitate to ignore such a blatant warning. As for why the film works, I suspect it has something to do with uneven heating, but in any event, it's not because foil doesn't conduct heat - it's aluminum and it conducts very well indeed. You can touch it because it's so thin and being such a good conductor, cools down almost immediately on exposure to room temperature air. If you were to crumple up a lot to give it some bulk and heat that, it would burn you very effectively. Mon Mar 06 17:54:34 -0800 2006 1514699 0 MikeG 5 1514801 I always use plastic film under foil when cooking anything with tomato sauce, it keeps the aluminum from transferring onto the tomato (black spots), which must be as bad as plastic possibly leeching into the food. It seals it tight so it evenly steams the food quickly, you just have to cover all the plastic (especially on the sides) so it doesn't melt onto the pan. A friend had sent one of those chain mail things warning about how dangerous it was to cook in plastic, so I looked up this information and decided I wasn't going to worry about it, since I don't do it every day. Link: http://snopes.com/medical/toxins/cookplastic.asp Tue Mar 07 08:13:50 -0800 2006 1514718 0 coll 6 1514849 I don't have a microwave anymore - it died and I don't enough of a real need to warrant giving up that much space in my truly small kitchen. But apart from avoiding what seemed to me really obvious stupidity, I never gave much thought to what containers I used. As for the conventional oven use, yeah, I agree that if you don't do it often it's all but completely irrelevant. (I still wouldn't go against a specific manufacturer warning though, figuring they probably have some reason, whatever it might be.) Realistically, I think that we who live in industrialized/industrializing countries probably get more of this crap from the air, water and food than from plastic wrap. As with things like organic/no GMO foods, it just comes down to what one is comfortable with. When it's such a gray area as this, the thing is to make an informed choice, as you've done. FWIW, I thought the the Johns Hopkins page linked on the site you mentioned had a very good practical summary. I thought the Snopes page was a little more dismissive than it should be, but then I've never seen any of those "scare emails" and I guess maybe they went a little overboard in reaction to what do look like ridiculous claims. Link: http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/articles/halden_plastics.html Tue Mar 07 12:35:42 -0800 2006 1514801 0 MikeG 7 1514923 Thanks for the backup. I usually use a Tupperware dome thing that fits over a dinner plate when I decide to microwave most food, but sometimes it's in a neat little package with plastic wrap on top, so I throw it in for a minute or so just like that. Call me Ms.Guinea Pig. Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger (I hope). Tue Mar 07 16:36:23 -0800 2006 1514849 0 coll 4 1514751 yeah, actually the original saran was also safer in terms of chemicals leaching into food than the usual polyethelene wraps, but there was some issue about a fluorine compound in its production process which caused the co. to stop making it. Dont know that there was a risk to the user at all, just as I said environmental concerns. SC Johnson bought the brand a few years back from Dow - dont think they ever appreciated the product itself, just the brand name. Mon Mar 06 20:31:06 -0800 2006 1514699 0 jen kalb 3 1514766 thanks for the info! I didn't know they'd stopped making it. good to know! Mon Mar 06 22:11:59 -0800 2006 1514696 0 adamclyde 2 1514716 Thanks for the detailed answer. FYI, of course aluminum foil conducts heat. Conduction of heat is a basic property of all metals. But aluminum, especially so thin, doesn't hold heat very well so as soon as it comes into contact with air it cools down. That means between the time you grab it and the time you move it out of the oven, it's cooled down. If it didn't conduct heat, you would be able to use aluminum like a pot holder. So you're right that aluminum doesn't "carry" (hold) heat, but "conduct" is the wrong word. Mon Mar 06 17:41:29 -0800 2006 1514685 0 nooodles 2 1514730 I think the plastic wrap was recommended because it's easier to peel off (aluminum foil sticks to some foods) or doesn't impart a tinny taste/reaction (which aluminum does to tomato-based foods, etc.). Just a guess, based on my experiences. Mon Mar 06 18:45:04 -0800 2006 1514685 0 Claudette 2 1514805 I use Stretch Tite plastic wrap- do you know if this will stand up in the oven? Tue Mar 07 08:27:49 -0800 2006 1514685 0 macca 1 1514793 interesting...i just made a nigella recipe for a loaf cake where she calls for lining the loaf tin with "cling film" (brit for plastic wrap) before adding the batter. for easy removal, i suppose. no foil mentioned. i didn't dare use the cling film i had, since it specifically warned that it's not to go in ovens. i just buttered and floured really well. cake turned out fine. Tue Mar 07 05:32:35 -0800 2006 1514605 0 hobokeg 2 1514806 waxed paper or parchment are good for this purpose. Tue Mar 07 08:57:04 -0800 2006 1514793 0 jen kalb 3 1515002 yeah, true. and her recipes often call for it. not sure why this one was different. Wed Mar 08 04:38:00 -0800 2006 1514806 0 hobokeg 4 1515025 when I was a kid, the standard pan prep drill for cakes or bar cookies that were to come out of the pan before cutting was to trace around the bottom of the pan on a piece of waxed paper, cut out the piece, put it in the pan and grease and flour pan and paper as per normal. nowadays can find precut cake circles. Wed Mar 08 10:58:08 -0800 2006 1515002 0 jen kalb 1 1514852 To reiterate another poster -- parchment paper is a great alternative. On Sunday, I did two enourmous braises -- one of lamb shanks and the other of oxtails -- and covered one in aluminum and the othe ris parchment and then aluminum. The one without the parchement paper burned through the aluminum in spots where the pointy bits were touching, leaving discolored patches with white film, etc. The parchment-covered one was clean and frankly a bit moister. Tue Mar 07 12:37:23 -0800 2006 1514605 0 Fidelixi