282151 Sun Jan 01 03:55:00 -0800 2006 38 31 Home Cooking 0 1502939 My friend from Atlanta calls the cornbread served in most of the country Yankee Cornbread. Southern Cornbread isn't sweetened, she says, Does anyone have a recipe for what she calls REAL cornbread? Quick, it's for New Years Day. Thanks Sun Jan 01 03:55:00 -0800 2006 0 Curmudgeon 1 1502953 I posted a recipe yesterday but here it is again. If you have it Indian Head cornmeal which is white adn stone ground and very fine is the best for this. Preheat your oven to 450 and place an 8" cast iron skillet in it to heat. You want the pan smoking hot when you pour the cornbread into it so it sizzles and fries upon contact. Combine 2 C. corn meal with 4 tsp. baking powder and a tsp. of salt. Mix together 1 egg and 1.5 C. milk. Put 2 Tbs. lard or bacon fat or canola oil in the hot skillet and put it back iin the oven. Stir the milk and egg into the corn meal mixture and combine it well . Pour into the sizzling hot skillet and bake 20-25 minutes. Sun Jan 01 10:35:20 -0800 2006 1502939 0 Candy 2 1502954 I cannot stand sweet cornbread either; I use a recipe very similar to Candy's, pre-heated cast iron skillet, bacon drippings heated in the skillet, batter poured into it for a delightful crust. But, you know, I worked with someone whose family was from Alabama going back many generations and she claimed that real southern cornbread is sweet, not savory, so go figure...it's sort of like finding "real chili" recipes. I have the same loathing for sweet coleslaw and sweet tea, which I've also heard are "truly" southern. I mean, I love iced tea with sugar BUT sweet tea to me is like drinking syrup and ya can't taste the tea, darnit!!! Sun Jan 01 11:23:48 -0800 2006 1502953 0 Val 3 1502955 >> I cannot stand sweet cornbread either Amen to that. Mrs. Buffet's sister sent us a Swiss Colony cornbread mix kit for Christmas. The stuff came out like a sweet bread. Sugar and evidently a high proportion of flour to meal. I like to cook cornbread in a Lodge cornbread skillet, divided into sections - optimizes the crust:bread ratio. - Jimmy "That's 'buff-ay'" Sun Jan 01 12:01:41 -0800 2006 1502954 0 Jimmy Buffet 4 1502959 I have one of those wedge skillets too. Like stick pans it gives optimal crunch. I also have a stick pan that makes 3" X 1" nuggets,very crunchy. As for sugar and flour in corn bread, I quote the sage who said "if I wanted cake that is what I would have ordered". Sun Jan 01 12:11:40 -0800 2006 1502955 0 Candy 2 1502967 I'll do the cornbread today. I don't have white cornmeal so I'll try it with yellow. No AP flour at all? And it isn't bitter? Anybody have recipes for slaw and potato salad that aren't sweet? The stuff you get in ribs places comes out of a white bucket and is enough to send you into sugar shock. Sun Jan 01 12:56:28 -0800 2006 1502953 0 Curmudgeon 3 1502988 Here's mine; yes, it calls for 1 Tablespoon of sugar but you would not call this a "sugary" coleslaw recipe at all and you can omit it entirely. It seems you cannot find good coleslaw anywhere anymore...KFC used to have passable stuff but now it's all white cabbage in a sugary gooey sauce...ack! Coleslaw 1/3 cup mayonnaise 2 tablespoons cider vinegar 1 tablespoon sugar 1 teaspoon Dijon mustard 3 cups finely shredded cabbage 1 large carrot, shredded coarse 1 small red onion, sliced thin (sometimes I finely chop some green pepper, too and omit the onion Mix mayo, vinegar, sugar, & mustard together...pour over cabbage, carrot, onion and/or green pepper...mix well and allow to chill in fridge for at least 2 hours. Mix again before serving; cabbage does seem to give off liquid. Sun Jan 01 16:20:44 -0800 2006 1502967 0 Val 4 1502992 I do pretty much the same thing but use a bit more cider vinegar. I can't tell you exactly when it is just right and do it by taste. But I salt and pepper the slaw and pour on the vinegar with the sugar dissolved in it and toss. Refrigerate again for a couple of hours and then toss again, drain and then add the mayo (real stuff not Miracle Whip)and mix. Sun Jan 01 16:40:44 -0800 2006 1502988 0 Candy 5 1503011 Yes, yes, yes, Candy...I ONLY use mayo in the coleslaw..Miracle Whip adds a sweet tang and I do like it with SOME things, but not with coleslaw...I do mix it with mayo and sour cream for my potato salad but not with coleslaw. Sun Jan 01 19:10:53 -0800 2006 1502992 0 Val 4 1503013 My coleslaw dressing isn't measured, but I use: Best Foods or Hellman's Light Mayo squirt of horseradish sauce Mirin rice vinegar s&p dash of Sriracha chili sauce finely sliced green onion-just a bit fresh Meyer lemon juice & zest fresh chopped parsley or cilantro Sometimes I finish with chopped pecans, though they will not keep. The salt and vinegar pull the moisture quickly out of the cabbage leaves, so if you don't like slaw soggy, dress just before serving. For Potato salad, I'm with Will. 1 egg per medium potato, mayo to texture preference, s&p, finely grated onion (1/2 tsp. per potato). NO MUSTARD. (My mother added some finely chopped pepperoncini peppers and a bit of liquid to give a piquant flavor. This was for my brothers whose Italian friends had them eating pepperoncinis all the time. I make it without.) Let the eggs and potatoes form a beautiful two-part harmony that really SINGS! Mix the dressing, and adjust the flavors before gently folding over small 1/2" cubes of cooled and peeled russets. Chill overnight if you have the chance, and the fortitude to resist scarfing it right then & there, to marry the flavors. Bring to cool room temp to serve. This graced many a summer picnic and Christmas Eve cold-meat dinner through my childhood. One of my Mom's best dishes, especially when followed later with her lemon chiffon pie, mit schlage. >sigh< I've never been able to replicate that. Sun Jan 01 19:27:01 -0800 2006 1502988 0 toodie jane 3 1503004 The coleslaw dressing I've evolved is approximately equal parts buttermilk and mayonnaise, say half a cup each, with a heaping soupspoon of pickle relish, then about a Tbs of red wine vinegar and/or lemon juice. I also sneak in a dash or two of Tabasco. Sugar to taste: I like it with none, and dill relish, my wife likes plenty plus sweet relish. Salt to taste at the end. This is enough for about 1 1/2 lb of slaw. It'll seem underdressed, but after it's sat in the fridge for an hour or two (as it should) it'll be plenty goopy. The potato salad I usually make is The Family Recipe, all but graven in stone: 1 potato to 1 HB egg to 1/4 onion + mayonnaise to bind, salt and pepper. So six medium russets (NOT waxy potatoes) to half a dozen boiled eggs to 1 1/2 smallish onions or one big one. This came from mom and her mom and for all I know six to eight generations before. I have monkeyed with it, but the only way I've found to improve it is to make the mayonnaise (garlicky, my preference). This also should be made at least eight hours before it's to be consumed. Sun Jan 01 18:26:56 -0800 2006 1502967 0 Will Owen 4 1503012 I need to try the buttermilk thing with coleslaw, thank you for reminding me...in the recent corn bread thread, I do use buttermilk in my recipe and have great respect for it! I also have a low-fat banana bread recipe that uses buttermilk instead of oil (well, okay, there's like 2 tbsps. of oil in it!) and it is wonderful. It's a respectable recipe for a low-fat baked product, hard to find, I think. Sun Jan 01 19:14:15 -0800 2006 1503004 0 Val 5 1503014 Would you mind sharing your lowfat banana bread recipe? It sounds good, and I have several very ripe bananas waiting in my freezer for just the right recipe. Sun Jan 01 19:27:20 -0800 2006 1503012 0 Dev 6 1503017 Dev, here's the link to the recipe from Bon Appetit magazine but the link is for Epicurious...I suspect that the moisture from the overripe bananas also adds to the moistness/texture in this bread, but it certainly "clued me in" to the beauty of buttermilk. (if you read the reviews, some folks add 4 bananas)Though I have not mastered the art of drinking it (alas, am a Yankee from Jersey) it truly adds flavor and moistness to everything from fried chicken to banana bread, doesn't it? Link: http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/recipe_views/views/4331 Sun Jan 01 19:42:08 -0800 2006 1503014 0 Val 7 1503020 Thanks so much! This looks like a very worthy use for those bananas. By the way, have you tried the recipe with sour cream as well, or only with buttermilk? It would be interesting to know which is the better liquid for this recipe, since the reviews mentioned both. You're right about buttermilk -- it works magic in some recipes! Sun Jan 01 20:26:09 -0800 2006 1503017 0 Dev 8 1503022 No, I've not tried it with sour cream...only buttermilk. Enjoy! Sun Jan 01 20:53:30 -0800 2006 1503020 0 Val 4 1503184 My house coleslaw dressing is mayo thinned with sweet pickle juice and with a sprinkle of celery seed mixed in. Tue Jan 03 04:29:29 -0800 2006 1503004 0 Sharuf 3 1503019 I'm with Will too on potato salad with 1 egg per potato but I boil my potatoes (Russetts) whole and unpeeled until fork tender then while they are hot peel and chunk into a bowl. They get salted and peppered and well doused with cider vinegar while they are hot and then allowed to cool while I chop up celery, bell pepper, dill pickles, black olives, pimento stuffed olives, both sliced, onion and the eggs. I chill that while the potatoes are cooling and chilling then combine both and bind with real mayo. Sun Jan 01 20:02:39 -0800 2006 1502967 0 Candy 2 1502968 Seems that the big variables are: - amount of sugar (it is easy to cut that to nothing) - ratio of cornmeal to wheat flour (I'm used to 1:1, I'd expect a pure cornmeal bread to be very crumbly.) - grind of the cornmeal (a fine grind may be better for 1:0 ratio; a medium grind would work better in a 1:1 ratio). - pan material and size (hot cast iron may be necessary with the high cornmeal ratio, producing a crust that holds the bread together; keeping the bread thin probably helps as well). Sun Jan 01 13:08:46 -0800 2006 1502953 0 paulj 3 1502981 Comparing the southern and northern cornbreads in the new Joy of Cooking points to a couple of other differences. The pure cornmeal version - has more egg relative to dry ingredients - has more liquid overall - bakes longer. Sun Jan 01 14:28:54 -0800 2006 1502968 0 paulj 2 1502972 There really is variation in what southerner's consider cornbread. My mom's family is all from TX/LA, and the traditional recipe we use is a 50:50 cornmeal:AP flour with a Tb of sugar (which usually morphs into molasses in my hands). I usually turn the milk into buttermilk also. I think it's a delicious recipe, and not at all like cake. It isn't a 10th as sweet as many of the yankee recipes I've had. Sun Jan 01 13:29:25 -0800 2006 1502953 0 smokey 3 1502978 We're from Texas and both my parents were from Kentucky. The recipe you mention is almost exactly like my mother always fixed it. One tablespoon of suger, exactly as I mentioned in my earlier post. I too use buttermilk. It's NOT CAKE at all or anything like cake. I have had a cast iron "corn stick" pan for 30 years that makes crusty, delicious cornbread. Sun Jan 01 14:03:52 -0800 2006 1502972 0 Monty 3 1502983 I live in the land of both sweet & salty cornbread, coming out of the same kitchens. I generally think that salty=southern, but here in the sugarbowl of LA, sugar is often added, too. Sun Jan 01 15:03:28 -0800 2006 1502972 0 Hungry Celeste 2 1503160 I wonder how Bob's Red Mill corn flour compares to this Indian Head Cornmeal. This seemed to be the closest I could find in the Pacific NW (Alba is the most common cornmeal brand). I tried the Southern corn bread recipe from Joy, with 1 3/4 c cornmeal, 2c buttermilk (mixed from dried), 2 eggs etc. The result was good, though closer to a spoonbread, without a lot of crisp crust. I may have used too deep of a pan for this amount of batter - 2 qt dutch oven. The bread was 1 1/2" thick. paulj Link: http://www.bobsredmill.com/catalog/index.php?action=showdetails&product_ID=130 Mon Jan 02 22:11:39 -0800 2006 1502953 0 paulj 1 1502956 I've always felt just the opposite. That being Southern cornbread is sweet and Yankee isn't. Now "sweet" is very much an individual taste. I put maybe a tablespoon or two of sugar in my cornbread. The sweetness is very much in the background, you know it's there but might not be sure what it is. I don't, however, like sweet tea, don't even like sugar in my tea or coffee. And, not a fan of sweet slaw either. So, I'm not a sugar freak. Sun Jan 01 12:01:55 -0800 2006 1502939 0 Monty 2 1502960 Nope you have that backwards. The yankee varieties are yellow meal and lots of sugar. Think Jiffy Mix (shudder). I spent my HS and college years on the Canadian border of New York state (that is northern NY not "upstate") and the only flourless sugarless cornbread I encountered was at home. Sun Jan 01 12:15:41 -0800 2006 1502956 0 Candy 3 1503041 Actually, in southeastern New England, traditional cornbreads used white meal and not as much sugar, either. Mon Jan 02 06:50:02 -0800 2006 1502960 0 Karl S 4 1503076 Joy of Cooking (new edition) describes Rhode Island as 'the center of the modern jonnycake universe'. Jonnycake is 'a form of corn pone, America's original cornbread, made only with cornmeal, water, and salt'. Mon Jan 02 13:54:07 -0800 2006 1503041 0 paulj 5 1503085 Yes, the traditional cornbreads of southeastern New England hearken to jonnnycake. And that cornmeal can only be white flint cornmeal, which we get in our local markets (Kenyon's being the most common brand, though most of the corn is grown in Virginia nowadays). Sugar is a debated topic, but jonnycake is not sweet. Jonnycake goes so far back in colonial history, and the relationship of the ports of Rhode Island (including Bristol, then a part of Massachusetts) to the Triangle Trade with ports in the South indicates that the shared regional preferences in cornbread may have long-standing roots. Mon Jan 02 15:11:36 -0800 2006 1503076 0 Karl S 1 1502996 When I was growing up in Mississippi, I was taught as an article of faith that sugar must NEVER be put in cornbread--after all, who would ever want Yankee cornbread?? My native Texan sister-in-law makes the best cornbread I've ever had, and does put in about a tablespoon of sugar. I follow her recipe (which is one part cornmeal to one part all-purpose flour), but can't always bring myself to add the sugar. :-) One thing that, to me, is as important as the sugar issue: buttermilk is essential. The difference between cornbread made with sweet milk and with buttermilk is striking. And cornbread should always be baked in cast iron (I use my husband's grandmother's old skillet and my own mom's cornstick pan). Like all foodways, this is all about family and tradition. White cornmeal probably yields a more delicate product, but I just always use yellow. IMHO, that's just a matter of personal taste. Sun Jan 01 17:37:25 -0800 2006 1502939 0 Zorra 2 2784007 In the mid-1960s my parents, who lived in Oklahoma at the time, went to Meridian, Mississippi, to visit friends, and they had to park their car backwards in the driveway because it wouldn't do for there to be "yankees" there. So I guess in some circles my mom's corn bread, which has a fourth of a cup of sugar in it, would qualify as Yankee cornbread. But there isn't many places outside of Mississippi where any of my relatives could be considered Yankees. Wed Jul 25 19:31:27 -0700 2007 1502996 32586 revsharkie 1 1503005 This thread had me looking at different southern cookbooks that I own some quite old and some newer. Bill Neal added sugar and flour. North Carolina Hoppin' John no sugar no flour. South Carolina John Edgerton no sugar no flour Damon Lee Fowler no sugar no flour. Savanah Marion Brown published a Tennessee recipe in her book, no sugar no flour James Villas no sugar or flour but creamed corn. N.C. Marion Flexner yes and no. Ky Ronni Lundy no flour and no sugar. Ky. Btw it was she I misquoted...she says that in an article on corn bread she wrote in Esquire over 20 years ago. She starteded the article she says by writing "If God had meant for cornbread to have sugar in it, he'd have called it cake. Marjorie Kinnan Rawlings flour no sugar. FL. River Road Recipes flour no sugar, Baton Rouge Junior League Gourmet on the Delta no sugar no flour, Church collections from Leland Miss and Hollandale Miss. Charleston Receipts mostly no flour and no sugar, but in muffins yes. Louis Osteen no flour no sugar, Charleston S.C. Marylands Way, sugar and flour Mrs. Dull sugar in only one recipe for corn sticks among many cornbread recipes. Atlanta John T. Edge sugar and flour only in corn light bread, his cornbread recipe is from Arkansas and is a buttermilk variety. Jeanne Voltz, sugar and flour, FL. John Edgerton no sugar of flour Edna Lewis only in corn light bread no sugar or flour in regular corn bread Nathalie Dupree, uses a cornbread mix that contains flour along with corn meal and baking powder. White Lily is one maker. GA but no sugar Craig Claiborne flour no sugar, Miss. New Orleans Junior League, flour and sugar Jamison and Jamison, both flour and sugar, Texas Home Cooking So it looks like it is all over the place and as Edgerton says there are more recipes in the south for cornbread than there are magnolia trees. I'm making mine tonight with cracklings and buttermilk. Happy New Year Y'all! Candy Sun Jan 01 18:29:57 -0800 2006 1502939 0 Candy 2 1503048 I use sugar in my hushpuppies but never in my cornbread. I serve my cornbread with butter and honey. Speaking of Louis Osteen, I love eating his Sunday Brunch outside at Louis Fish Camp. Pan fried chicken, lots of cornbread, Mac & Cheese, fried okra. Oh. Dear. Is that stuff good! Mon Jan 02 09:01:31 -0800 2006 1503005 0 BlueHerons 1 1503023 The key to great southern cornbread is a cast iron skillet and bacon grease. Sun Jan 01 20:55:29 -0800 2006 1502939 0 Mister F. 2 2783773 Amen to cast iron and bacon grease. And if you eat the cornbread while it's still hot, you definitely don't need to worry about crumbly-ness or about missing the sugar or flour. I like to make a small cornbread and eat it fresh, rather than adding ingredients just to add to its longevity. Wed Jul 25 17:55:30 -0700 2007 1503023 108675 eastvillgirl 1 4642241 I am looking for a receipt for cornbread that is similar to Skyline BBQ serves in Ayden NC. It does not rise and is solid and moist in the inside and very crunchy on the outside. I know it is cooked in with a cast iron frypan with hot hot lard in the oven. Does anyone know how to make this cornbread. It is not served many places anymore. Thu Apr 30 09:09:31 -0700 2009 1502939 287477 PamH 2 4642358 Sounds like a spoon bread, which is more like a corn pudding than a bread. Thu Apr 30 09:43:24 -0700 2009 4642241 12139 paulj 3 4642907 No this is called corn bread and it is about 1 inch thick. Very heavy in the middle and the top and bottom are very crisp from the lard. As a child we use to eat the edges because they were the best part. Thu Apr 30 12:14:08 -0700 2009 4642358 287477 PamH 4 4642928 If it is made with a high proportion (3/4) of cornmeal (most likely a fine grind), and baked in a preheated skillet, it probably will turn out as you described. The hot fat will crisp the edges, while the low wheat flour content will limit the rise. The dense, moist interior of your original description led me to think of spoon bread. Thu Apr 30 12:21:27 -0700 2009 4642907 12139 paulj