280992 Wed Nov 16 08:07:20 -0800 2005 12 31 Home Cooking 0 1494149 I've made quite a few turkeys in my day. Generally I brine the bird, dry it in the fridge, and roast in a moderate oven for several hours. But my enchantment with the Zuni roast chicken technique (I was led to it by this board) makes me want to depart from tradition this year and dry-brine the turkey and roast it at high heat. I've been slightly nervous about this because in the Zuni book Judy Rodgers says that the technique is best for smaller chickens (about 3 lbs). But the dry-brining approach for turkey seems to be validated in this month's Fine Cooking mag, and the generally staid Washington Post food section seems obsessed lately with a high-heat roasting method suggested by a pamphlet at the local Safeway (I think it recommends 425 degrees). So I'm thinking of going for it. Does anyone have experience with this method? Must the stuffing be cooked outside the bird (I would assume yes)? Does it make a difference what type of turkey is used? I have on order a "heritage" bird from my farmers' market; these are less chesty than supermarket turkeys and maybe they would lend themselves better to the technique. Or would it be worse?! I'll have guests, but they are likely to be understanding if experimentation goes awry. Thanks in advance if anyone has advice to offer. Wed Nov 16 08:07:20 -0800 2005 0 LindaMc 1 1494152 the providence journal food section has an article about this today. Here is the recipe they provide: ROSE'S HIGH HEAT TURKEY 10- to 20-pound turkey Salt Pepper Pickling spices Paprika Preheat oven to 500 degrees. Wash turkey inside and out. Tie up legs. Put in a roasting pan. Salt and pepper inside and out. Rub a handful of pickling spices on the turkey. Sprinkle with paprika to taste. Add an inch of water to the pan. Roast for an hour and then cover the breast lightly with foil if it is getting too browned. Start checking the temperature at that time. Add a little more water if it dries up. Remove turkey from oven when temperature reaches 180 degrees deep in the thigh (according to Butterball) or when internal thermometer pops up. Note: You can brine for two days in mixture of water and salt, if you like. Wed Nov 16 08:23:55 -0800 2005 1494149 0 EAF 2 1494163 If you want breast meat as tough as leather, stick to the 180 degree guideline. Salmonella is killed at 150F, but using 160F in the deepest part of the thigh as the marker for taking poultry out of the oven is quite common these days. The bird will continue to cook for at least 30-45 minutes, even an hour, after removing from the oven, especially in high heat cooking. Today's NY Times had a modified (425F) high heat method (log-in registration required for free) described well. Wed Nov 16 08:53:11 -0800 2005 1494152 0 Karl S 2 1494165 I'm always afraid that the high heat would either dry it out, or not cook it all the way to the bone. I always start at 450-500, but after about 15 minutes, I turn it down to 325. I like to watch the parade while it slowly cooks all morning (I usually get a 25 lb or so). Then it comes out around the time the guests start arriving. Well that's just me. Wed Nov 16 08:54:39 -0800 2005 1494152 0 coll 1 1494162 I'm glad you asked this question, LindaMc! I've been wondering the same thing and look forward to other responses. My tentative conclusion based on instincts and prior experience w/ the Zuni chicken was that high heat roasting for the entire time wouldn't work well b/c a turkey: a) is much larger and b) has relatively less fat. I'd be worried that the bird would dry out too much being blasted w/ high heat. I do plan to blast on high heat for initial roasting and browning. Am thinking 450-475F for first 45-60 min. and then reduced to 350F thereafter. I also plan to rub on a little olive oil to get it going. No butter massage this year. If I have the courage to flip it a couple of times, I will attempt that too. Do you plan to pre-heat your roasting pan and have no rack? I'm undecided about this part... Wed Nov 16 08:51:21 -0800 2005 1494149 0 Carb Lover 2 1494196 FWIW, your temperatures sound spot on. I roasted a turkey this past weekend (I promise, I'll post! So tired...) at about 500 for the first half hour and 350 until the internal temperature reached 160. Were I to do it again I'd lower the initial temperature. At 500, the top browned a little too quickly, before the sides got a chance to. That might also be the result of cooking a 20 lb. turkey in a tiny oven. I could barely fit my oven-mitted hands around the pan to pull it out. Wed Nov 16 12:13:59 -0800 2005 1494162 0 nooodles 3 1494294 Thanks for reporting back on that, nooodles. I think I'm going w/ 450F since I'll be using some olive oil and don't want it to smoke/burn too much. I look forward to your report after you've recuperated. Wed Nov 16 20:07:08 -0800 2005 1494196 0 Carb Lover 2 1494217 Yeah, I'm thinking of heating the roasting pan. It works so well with the chicken, and I've never had a problem with sticking. When I made the mock porchetta a couple of weeks ago, the roasted shallots I made in the pan were amazing, and I thought I might nestle some in under/alongside the turkey (although maybe I should wait until the temp is lowered). For flipping, I have found that a pair of those silicone Orka gloves (I received them as a gift) work really well. Mine are solely devoted to this purpose. I like your thoughts on temp, and will probably follow suit! I'm really looking forward to the post-Thanksgiving deconstruction of all of this!!! Wed Nov 16 13:57:04 -0800 2005 1494162 0 LindaMc 3 1494295 Me too, am looking forward to the debriefing almost as much as the meal! It's interesting that some resources are now steering cooks away from wet brining. I finally jumped on the wet brine bandwagon last year and was very displeased w/ my results...and along came Zuni. What would the same T-giving meal be year after year w/o new experimentation and obsessions?! Wed Nov 16 20:18:53 -0800 2005 1494217 0 Carb Lover 3 1494418 if you liked the shallots from the roasting pan you should consider putting more veggies in there - you'll also love the resulting roasted, turkey basted vegetables. instead of a rack, I like to put thickly sliced potatoes under my chickens when I roast them ... the dripping juices/fat help carmelize the potatoes to a point where they are glazed and full of flavor - should work with a turkey also....toss in any other vegetables you normally would oven roast...brussel sprouts, squash, onions, yams, zuchinni, etc... Thu Nov 17 13:38:47 -0800 2005 1494217 0 Gordon Wing 1 1494200 I've been using Alton Brown's high heat then lower heat with a foil breastplate method for the past few years since I've found it's the best balance btw minimal fussing and tasty bird. He explains all the whys and hows of this method very well in that Good Eats episode (transcript linked below; recipe can be found on foodtv.com). Basically you want the initial high 500 to "sear" the outside for 30 minutes, then you lower it to 350 to cook the inside until the breast is 161, covering the breast tightly with a foil triangle when you turn the oven down. He uses a rack, and because of the foil, there's no need to flip (which I like). I like to remove the foil when the breast is about 145-150 to crisp it before it's all done. Also I think 500 is too much in some ovens so you might want to watch how it goes in your oven for those first 30 minutes. And I use canola oil even though I like olive oil better, because olive oil has a lower burning point and breaks down in the high heat. Oh, and Alton uses a wet brine method. This year I'm going to try a 3-day dry brine/cure before roasting. Link: http://www.goodeatsfanpage.com/SeasonMisc/Turkey/TurkeyTranscript.htm Wed Nov 16 12:36:15 -0800 2005 1494149 0 Alice Patis 2 1494259 For what it's worth, this is the same recipe that we used last year and it was absolutely the best turkey I've ever had. Wed Nov 16 16:30:01 -0800 2005 1494200 0 Jellybelly 1 1494317 Yes, I've done it. Whenever it's up to me to make the Thanksgiving roast, I try a different approach each time. One year I used the Cook's Illustrated high roast turkey method. It calls for roasting the turkey at 450 degrees for 80-100 minutes. the turkey is brined and butterflied (which takes a little more muscle than butterflying a roast chicken). Tie the legs together so it holds its shape. The turkey is then put on a rack placed on top of a roasting pan (Cooks calls for the broiler pan lid, but I used a heavy duty wire rack. In the roasting pan you make a stuffing/dressing. As the bird cooks, the drippings flavor the stuffing. If you don't do this, the drippings smoke something awful. For gravy, they make a giblet gravy. The end result was a mighty tasty gravy and a juicy bird with a crisp skin. The only thing was that the stuffing was a bit dry. If I were to do it again, I would probably add a little butter to the recipe. I would consider using the recipe again. Recently, when I was in the local supermarket, I was handed a recipe for a high-roast turkey. It wasn't butterflied, but the principle was the same. I say give it a try... Thu Nov 17 00:15:26 -0800 2005 1494149 0 Gary Rolin