278156 Tue May 31 10:31:58 -0700 2005 14 31 Home Cooking 0 1471509 I have tried to make the focaccia recipe from Rose Levy Berenbaum's "Bread Bible" three times: the first time it worked nicely, the latter two times it was a complete catastrophe, despite the fact that I followed the recipe exactly in all three cases, as far as I know. The proofed dough was light and bubbly and great-looking but when I put it into the oven it became a dessicated, greasy cracker, as if the air were somehow sucked out of it. Has anyone had any luck with this recipe, or, alternately, does anyone know of a great, foolproof focaccia recipe? David A. Tue May 31 10:31:58 -0700 2005 0 David A. 1 1471519 I have had the "desiccated, greasy cracker" problem, and I've had to reduce my oven temperature 25°. Also, make sure you don't over-oil the top, and make sure you haven't over-risen the dough. Tue May 31 11:37:48 -0700 2005 1471509 0 Das Ubergeek 1 1471523 Without knowing the particular recipe, I'll say that it sounds like an oven temperature problem- too hot. Also the ubergeek's oil comment sounds on target. Tue May 31 11:47:54 -0700 2005 1471509 0 NeNePie 1 1471532 I found this review at Amazon.com. This is my experience PRECISELY: I base the review of this book on one recipe, the Rosemary Focaccia bread on page 205. The illustration of this recipe on the page preceeding page 97 is almost certainly the work of a wizard food stylist. The author calls for 390 grams of flour and 442 grams of water! This ridiculous ratio and the fact that liquid is usually measured in volume should have tipped me off that this recipe is bogus and isn't going to work. Nothing on earth, not the Bible, not the author herself in your kitchen, not a PBS Series, is going to change chemistry and make this sloppy batter turn into bread. I looked at this "dough" after 20 minutes in the KitchenAid mixer (exactly at speed 4, per author's instruction) and I thought I made a measuring mistake. Then I mixed 39g of flour with 44g of water, just to make sure, and the result is the exact same drippy batter. The author describes the dough as a "smooth, shiny ball" at this stage. Perhaps in her test kitchen, armies of artisanal bakers secretly replace her batter with something that works and voila, like the magically appearing dish of cooking shows. But, I stuck with it, I let it rise for 4.5 hours, (amazingly enough, it did rise, even in its liquid state!) I dutifully preheat the oven for an hour with a baking stone, I poured the batter out to the sheet, I laughed my head off while reading the instructions to "gently stretch the dough" out to fill the pan. Armies of bakers, indeed. What came out of the oven is a flat, unappealing slab of ... something, because this is like nothing I've ever eaten or seen anyone made. It certainly isn't focaccia, unless you're playing a joke on your readers. I looked on her website for an errata. Nada. I looked at another focaccia recipe presented in the book and found the eeriely familiar ratio of liquid to dry. I borrowed this book from the library, with the intent to purchase, after hearing an interview with the author on NPR. This book is going straight back to the shelf and I implore you to spend your $35 elsewhere and not on this book. (...) Tue May 31 12:31:58 -0700 2005 1471509 0 David A. 2 1471572 The focaccia recipe is difficult, but can be mastered -- my suggestion is to use as little oil as possible before baking, just to get the rosemary to stick; then oil it sparingly afterwards -- the bread will soak up the oil, and you won't have made the bread cook faster by oiling it up. There are other recipes in there that are fantastic -- I love the ciabatta recipe, and the limpa recipe is perfect. As for the reviewer, I can tell you this from experience: in professional bakeries EVERYTHING is weighed, including water; nothing is measured, because measuring cups aren't standardised. Tue May 31 16:13:20 -0700 2005 1471532 0 Das Ubergeek 3 1471577 Actually, I've worked at three bakeries, and all of them measured both eggs and water by volume. I'm sure some places use scales, but scales are expensive, so you don't necessarily have enough, there are always other employees who need to use them, if you can get away with measuring by volume, you do. Again, I'm sure it's not universal, but volume-measure is hardly unheard of in pastry shops. Tue May 31 16:50:17 -0700 2005 1471572 0 curiousbaker 4 1471579 I make a super-easy foccacia from Nick Malgieri's "How to Bake" cookbook. It rises just once in a bowl, then you press it out and bake it in a heavily oiled jelly roll pan. It works for me every time...at least, so far. Tue May 31 17:00:53 -0700 2005 1471577 0 Hungry Celeste 5 1471647 I second the recommendation for the focaccia in How to Bake, both Easy Italian and Rosemary versions (the latter includes milk and makes a slightly larger focaccia). I make both of these regularly and have never had the slightest problem. I was extremely interested to read this thread since I also heard the Berenbaum interview on NPR and had thumbed through the book with intent to purchase. I have not done so, though, and I am having second thoughts now. I've had How to Bake since it came out and really like it. I would also recommend, if anyone is interested, Baking at Home from the Culinary Institute of America (widely available). Maybe I don't need the Bread Bible after all! Wed Jun 01 10:34:01 -0700 2005 1471579 0 LindaMc 6 1471659 I have an old copy (80s?) of Judith Olney on Bread (given by a friend downsizing her formidable cookbook collection). It is also great...maybe a used bookstore or alibris has a copy. She's very straighforward, with easy to understand instructions on technique. Also, she gives lots of basic recipes with variations so you truly understand how to work with yeast dough after doing a couple of her recipes. It's not the paint-by-numbers kind of recipe book so popular today, but a broader understanding of how to handle bread. Wed Jun 01 11:18:06 -0700 2005 1471647 0 Hungry Celeste 2 1471628 I have always had success using this recipe. The dough is wet, but not anywhere near as wet as the recipe you had trouble with. 2 C lukewarm water 2 tsp yeast 3 tsp salt 4 C unbleached flour (King Arthur AP or bread flour works by far the best, in my opinion) 2-3 tsp olive oil 2 Tbsp chopped fresh rosemary 1 tsp kosher or sea salt Place the warm water in a large bowl, sprinkle the yeast over it, and stir until it is dissolved. Add the salt and 2 cups of flour, and with a balloon whisk, stir briskly until the mixture is smooth. Using a sturdy wooden spoon, stir in the remaining 2 cups of flour until the dough begins to pull away from the sides of the bowl and form a loose ball. The dough will still be quite sticky. If it doesn't form some semblance of a ball, add additional flour (1/4 to 1/2 cup)until it does. Cover the bowl with plastic wrap and place it in the refrigerator to ferment for about 12 hours. Two hours before you are ready to shape the focaccia, remove the dough from the refrigerator and allow it to stand in a warm place to rise again. Preheat the oven to 500 degrees F. Line two 13 x 8" baking sheets with parchment paper and gently pour the dough onto the sheets, scraping the sides of the bowl with a rubber spatula. Dimple the dough deeply with your fingers and stretch each portion into an oval or rectangle about 1 inch deep. Brush it with olive oil, sprinke with rosemary and salt, and place into the oven. Reduce the oven temperature to 450 degrees F. Bake for 15 to 20 minutes, until the focaccia is a deep golden brown with darker areas around the dimples. This also works nicely brushed with a thin layer of tomato sauce and parmagiano, covered with a sparse layer of caramelized onions with liberal salt, topped with cinnamon sugar, and probably anything else that catches your fancy. Wed Jun 01 00:24:16 -0700 2005 1471532 0 Liz 2 1471636 Explain then, David, how in your original post you said you made the dough three times and the first time it worked out nicely? What's the real agenda here? Wed Jun 01 09:01:48 -0700 2005 1471532 0 DK 1 1471660 someone just forwarded this link. i have an interesting story and explanation about this paticular recipe but need probably til tomorrow to post it in its entirety! for now, just want to tell you that i had the same experience where it worked and then...didn't. i've worked it out. best, rose Wed Jun 01 11:35:29 -0700 2005 1471509 0 rose levy beranbaum 1 1471699 here's the story and fix i promised: the owner/baker of sullivan street bakery wouldn't give me the recipe when i asked for it saying it was very tricky and depended on the type of flour used which at the time he thought the home baker could not obtain. but a few years later i saw his recipe in someone else's book and the flour was king arthur which is generally available. it worked perfectly for me the first few times but as i travelled around the country on book tour i was aghast at how horribly it turned out even in the hands of some incredibly competent bakers! since i loved it so much and became really curious about what was going on i started retesting it on my return. to my surprise i discovered that the flour was not that significant as for one of my tests i used gold medal unbleached all purpose flour and it was still perfect. here's how i make it now: i double the yeast and the final rise in the pan takes about 2 hours. i let it DOUBLE not just 1 1/2 times. here's the most important part to get the big holes and light texture: just before baking i wet my fingertips with water and deeply dimple the dough throughout. this has worked for me consistently. i will post it on my website as soon as i get the chance to update it. the sullivan street baker was right: this is an exceptionally challenging bread--simple though it is. but i think worth it. best bread baking! rose Wed Jun 01 17:28:34 -0700 2005 1471509 0 rose levy beranbaum 2 1471723 Thank you for the story and solution. I haven't yet made that recipe, but I've printed out your post for reference when I'm ready to tackle it. Wed Jun 01 22:25:25 -0700 2005 1471699 0 La Dolce Vita 3 1472226 Thanks very much for your comments. I bake frequently from your cookbooks and really appreciate your attention to detail. Tue Jun 07 13:47:20 -0700 2005 1471723 0 JudiAU