277449 Fri Apr 08 09:13:00 -0700 2005 23 31 Home Cooking 0 1466043 I never buy pre-ground beef in the supermarket. I always select a piece of meat (bottom round, top round, chuck steak, etc...whatever is on sale) and have them grind it up for me. Aside from freshness, the big reason is I can then cook my burgers medium rare and not have the e-coli issues that follow along with pre-ground beef that may or may not be sold at the supermarket. When you are getting ground beef from the processing plant, you run the risks of contamination because of all the fecal matter that is cleaned from the carcass. Anyway, here's my question to you meat experts. When I get the roast ground up and I get it home, most times the color is consistant throughout the entire package. But, sometimes, like yesterday, there were brown colored sections along with those that are bright red...the visual we all expect. I smelled what I termed to be discolored sections and they smelled fine. I always check the date on the piece of meat I'm having ground up. In yesterday's case, it was marked 4/12/05 so that's not an issue. Now, once before I accused a supermarket of having mixed old meat in with new ground beef. Their answer to me was "Sir, when you grind up the meat, the parts not immediately exposed to the air take more time to develop that red color you are used to seeing." They gave me my money back and to this day...well at least until this morning, I thought I was right! This morning, the remainder of the ground up beef from last night had all turned the red color we all look for. So, perhaps they were right all along? That in order for the entire grind to look the same, air must get at it all on an equal basis? Thanks for any info from a beef expert. Fri Apr 08 09:13:00 -0700 2005 0 Chuck 1 1466044 They were right. Fri Apr 08 09:23:26 -0700 2005 1466043 0 The Rogue 2 1466053 I am far from being any kind of a meat expert, but I believe they're right as well. From what I've read in the past, the "redness" of beef is caused by exposure to air. Because it's now something that's an ingrained part of how we expect it to look and how we judge it's "freshness"...beef companies long ago started using specially created plastic wrap to achieve this effect. The clear wrap they use to package beef is microscopically perforated to ensure that a small flow of air gets in, thereby causing the exposed parts of the beef to take on it's red hue. The clear wrap used for chicken, pork, etc..I believe is the standard "air tight" wrap, because they do not need any oxygenating effect to become an expected colour. Which is also an important reason to repackage, or at least double wrap any beef that you store in the freezer...as this wrap that "lets in" air is a surefire recipe for quick freezerburn! Fri Apr 08 10:09:18 -0700 2005 1466044 0 Rani 1 1466045 What he told you is the opposite of what's true. Beef "browns" when the myoglobin in the meat develops. This is caused by exposure to air. So, the outside would be brown, not the inside. It is possible that meat packed in a cryovac package may be purple, but not brown. Link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1589791304/qid=1102097983/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/103-3063674-7970251?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 Fri Apr 08 09:36:23 -0700 2005 1466043 0 Joseph Carey 2 1466055 Yes it browns... but over a longer period of time. The deep red develops much faster. Fri Apr 08 10:44:46 -0700 2005 1466045 0 The Rogue 2 1466097 Chef...Is it possible that freshly ground interio meat is purple? The outside red...And, old meat, mixed into fresher meat is indeed brown? That's the way I always viewed it. Fri Apr 08 14:02:16 -0700 2005 1466045 0 Chuck 2 1466106 But when you open the cryovac, the purple meat will turn red in 10-15 minutes. Fri Apr 08 14:57:43 -0700 2005 1466045 0 coll 1 1466048 The best way to insure freshness is to buy the chunk of meat and grind it at home - you cannot be sure what has been ground before in the butcher's grinder. Fri Apr 08 09:45:13 -0700 2005 1466043 0 FoodZilla 2 1466065 Yes, and you don't need a meat grinder. Just pulse it carefully in small amounts in the food processor. Makes an unbelievable hamburger. Fri Apr 08 11:30:01 -0700 2005 1466048 0 Junie D 2 1466095 Foodzilla..You are absolutely right Fri Apr 08 14:00:00 -0700 2005 1466048 0 Chuck 1 1466057 The reason that the outside of beef is red and the inside more of a brown color is the hemoglobin in the meat (from blood), which assumes a bright red color when it takes on oxygen. Same reason your arteries are red and your veins are blue. The meat in the interior isn't exposed to oxygen, so doesn't get (or keep) the red color. It's perfectly natural and in no way an indication that there's something wrong. Fri Apr 08 10:57:06 -0700 2005 1466043 0 FlyFish 1 1466061 I just took the servsafe class and e coli can be found on the outside of all red meats, yes..even your steaks/beef that you buy! You can cook steaks rare cause the e coli is not inside the beef,only on the outside and is destroyed during grilling or whatever method you choose to cook it but once your grind the beef you are grinding in the e coli also...so what you are doing is not protecting yourself from the e coli. Fri Apr 08 11:07:51 -0700 2005 1466043 0 Richie 2 1466094 Ritchie...That is not good news......Man, I always chalked up the E-Coli to the fact that many places like Walmart have no butchers on the premises. They have a huge labor fight goiing on with theMeat Cutters' Union. Anyway, the processing plants fabricate and grind for them because they are such a big buyer. I thought that was the real problem as to how you get E-coli. Now you're tell me I just shoot craps every time I eat a medium rare piece of meat? Fri Apr 08 13:58:44 -0700 2005 1466061 0 Chuck 3 1466150 Richie is correct; the bacteria is on the surface of the meat. Grinding meat sends the bacteria to all layers of the meat. That said, some people still enjoy steak tartare and carpaccio. My mother used to sample raw hamburger mixed with raw egg when she was making meatballs or meatloaf. I don't recall her ever getting sick from this practice. Sat Apr 09 08:56:28 -0700 2005 1466094 0 GooGLeR 2 1466219 It sounds to me like if you really want to avoid e-coli and have rare ground beef you should start with a whole cut of beaf, Cook the cut in some manner (grill, fry, broiler) the till rare. Which should kill anything on the outside, then chop/grind the meat and cook again for your burgers or whatever else you want. Note try at your own risk, I am not an expert on any of this. Sun Apr 10 10:25:31 -0700 2005 1466061 0 SO_MD_OLDBIE 1 1466064 I am slightly confused about the answers so far. Like the OP, I usually get the butcher to ground me up on the spot and use it right away. No brown to be seen. But I have bought ground meat in the past in a supermarket which was gray brown on the inside. And it looked like it was layered very distinctly--red then brown. It smelled off, so I chucked it, swearing never to buy meat from that place. I understand the bit about meat becoming "redder" when in contact with air. How about it going gray brown? Fri Apr 08 11:25:28 -0700 2005 1466043 0 mod'ern 2 1466086 As I mentioned in my post below, the meat is red because the hemoglobin is oxygenated. All organic substances (like meat) have a certain "oxygen demand" as natural oxidation processes occur. The hamburg starts out nice and red throughout because it's all been recently exposed to air (oxygen). The layer on the outside stays red because it continues in contact, more or less, with air. But as oxidation reactions take place inside the meat the hemoglobin there gives up its oxygen and can't replenish it, so loses that red color. These are all natural processes and not, in themselves, harmful. Fri Apr 08 13:26:18 -0700 2005 1466064 0 FlyFish 3 1466092 Sure sounds like an answer to me.... Fri Apr 08 13:54:18 -0700 2005 1466086 0 Chuck 3 1466360 Funny how people would think that ground beef would become "redder" if exposed to even more oxidation. This doesn't happen with anything else in nature I can think of. Meat is like a banana, apple or an avocado, once exposed to air, it breaks down and turns brown and sometimes green when the bacteria sets in. The best thing you can do is to raise and butcher your own animals and then there would never be a problem as far as freshness and quality. Mon Apr 11 18:16:13 -0700 2005 1466086 0 Pablo 2 1466091 You know Modern...I stand corrected. This morning, there were still significant brown areas. I was wrong! But, I must say they did not smell. Perhaps what happend is they passed my cubed chunks of bottom round steak through the grinder and they may have been ground beef already in the line so to speak? Not sure. Fri Apr 08 13:52:55 -0700 2005 1466064 0 Chuck 1 1466322 As for the red issue, you can put nitrates on the meat to get it a nice red color. One of the reasons a 'real' corned beef is gray, not red. As for e coli, it is true that it and any other bug lives on the surface of your meat. In a processing plant thousands and thousands of carcasses are ground up, spreading anything nasty throughout the entire batch. That is why when meat is recalled, it affects such a wide area and huge amount of product. When you buy a single piece and grind it up, you are betting on that one piece being e coli free, or at least in a low enough concentration to not be harmful. While I don't know the odds on you getting sick from e coli from grinding up a single piece of meat, I would wager it is similar to you getting Jakob-Creutzfeld disease, which I read spontaneously develops in one in a million people - no mad cow required. You can only lower, not eliminate risk. Assuming you're not pregnant, out of grade school and don't possess a weakened immune system, I think you're fine. Mon Apr 11 14:09:52 -0700 2005 1466043 0 muD 1 1466353 HI , I just got back to this post today. The only way to avoid e coli would be for the meat packers to start irradiating the beef. From what my professor told us in the servsafe class in school it's safe. IN Europe they are doing it to the eggs now she told us and so far so good. Hope this helps ........Richie Mon Apr 11 17:15:21 -0700 2005 1466043 0 Richie 2 1466371 Richie...Perhaps you are taking a course as someone who is entering the industry? Anyway, the irradiation method has been around for a while now. But, the press is very negative. People are nervous and fear Cancer, etc. I also believe they wanted to use it with eggs, chicken, etc. Hey, if I'm right about you taking some sort of required State course, why not tell us a bit about it. When I was still in the business, the only requirement was for some, not all, restaurants, to require their employees to get a Food Handler's Certificate. Seems like your teacher is doing a very good job. Boy, I was not happy to hear about grinding up possible surface E-Coli! Mon Apr 11 19:18:56 -0700 2005 1466353 0 Chuck 3 1466398 HI Chuck, I am attending the university of New Haven part time evenings while I work days full time. I am hopefully going to be a nutritionist/registered dietician someday and the servsafe course was a core requirement. It's a great class for anyone to take. If you knew of all the diseases you could catch from eating out you wouldn't eat out anymore! Tue Apr 12 07:05:32 -0700 2005 1466371 0 Richie