276503 Sat Feb 12 09:13:44 -0800 2005 22 31 Home Cooking 0 1459017 I looked down the list, and I can't find the answer. This post is about Worcestershire Sauce, not High Fructose Corn Syrup (which, by the way, I'm also trying to eliminate this scourge of humanity from my diet, but this post isn't about that particular topic, because then it would belong on a different board). Anyhow, I looked at my bottle in the fridge, and the third ingredient (after Vinegar and Molasses)is High Fructose Corn Syrup. Not to bemoan High Fructose Corn Syrup, which is corn syrup enzymaticallly altered from Sucrose to Fructose, which our bodies respond entirely differently (no insulin trigger, suppression of lipids - keep eating). So, I need to find a superior product. I'm willing to mail order from a housewife in Worcestershire. I want to find the absolute best product that I can buy and use in Austin, TX. Interstingly, anchovy is the fourth ingredient in my product. Does anyone know if that is fermented prior to making the sauce? Sat Feb 12 09:13:44 -0800 2005 0 rudeboy 1 1459034 My bottle of Lea and Perrins says corn sweetners not hfcs. I guess one would have to ask their rep if the corn sweetners are hfcs' to be sure. Sat Feb 12 11:49:06 -0800 2005 1459017 0 Candy 2 1459041 I wonder if it is a regional thing? Mine actually says "high fructose corn syrup." I also found a bottle of KC Masterpiece BBQ sauce in the back of the fridge - the FIRST INGREDIENT was HFCS!!!!! Sat Feb 12 12:05:38 -0800 2005 1459034 0 rudeboy 3 1459044 I'm in Indiana. Not all corn syrup is HFCS either and then there is dextrose too which is also a corn sweetener. Sat Feb 12 12:11:41 -0800 2005 1459041 0 Candy 4 1459198 Everyone-- Discussion of food can spark discussion of nutrition, health, diet, and even politics. In order to keep this message board focused on the actual pragmatics of creating edibility, we ask that such (important) side issues be addressed on our Not About Food board. So if you'd like to discuss, say, the healthiness of HFCS (per a long debate that stemmed from this discussion which we've deleted), start a new topic there, and post a "heads up" note here so readers along know to make the jump. But please don't sidetrack things by digressing here, because, again, the potential for nutrition/diet/health digression on any food topic is infinite, and we all hope to enjoy a high signal-to-noise ratio on this cooking board. Thanks! Sun Feb 13 15:47:39 -0800 2005 1459044 2 The Chowhound Team 1 1459059 Dumb question.....Except for the L&P brand, I wonder if the worcestershire sauce available in the US, has a manufactured by label showing a UK address ? Was just wondering if perhaps there might be some products that are perhaps made under licence or by a totally different manufacturer in the US ? Also, if you have the bottle in front of you, might be interesting if ingredients could be listed in the order as it appears on the label ? Maybe we can then compare notes from the different responses on this subject. Sat Feb 12 13:48:54 -0800 2005 1459017 0 Amin (London Foodie) 2 1459064 vinegar, molasses, high fructose corn syrup, anchovies, water, onions, salt, garlic, natural flavorings, chili pepper extract, hydrolyzed soy and corn protein address made by: lea & perrins, inc. fairlawn, n.j/ 07410 Sat Feb 12 14:01:31 -0800 2005 1459059 0 nikki 3 1459109 Exact same as mine...thanks! Sat Feb 12 19:14:43 -0800 2005 1459064 0 rudeboy 1 1459083 I was in my local Kroger this afternoon and the L&P stuff all had HFCS in it. Interestingly the Kroger brand did not. It specified dextrose as the swetening agent. Sat Feb 12 15:46:43 -0800 2005 1459017 0 Candy 1 1459128 I have a bottle at my side, "The Original and Genuine Lea & Perrins Worcestershire Sauce", made in Worcester on Midland Road, from the original and completely top secret recipe :-) My husband happens to be from Worcester, so it's kind of a big deal at our house! Ingredients: Malt Vinegar, Spirit Vinegar, Water, Refiner's Molasses, Sugar, Anchovies, Salt, Tamarind Extract, Onions, Garlic, Spice and Natural Flavour. The anchovies would not be fermented prior to inclusion, however, the sauce does go through a fermentation process of sorts. Trust me, the aroma from that place would knock you on your ass on a hot day when the wind is just right! Just as an aside, unless you have a really strict medical reason to worry, the amount of HFCS/sugar that you would actually ingest (based on the amounts in the average recipe) is so negligible, it would be unlikely to be the cause any kind of insulin spike. You would need to consume a bottle to get any kind of real reaction. I'm diabetic, strict about these things, and I put a teaspoon in my V-8 every morning. Never has it caused so much as a blip on my glucose monitor. Of course everyone is different, but like I said, unless there is some strict medical thing you are worried about, I wouldn't worry. Sat Feb 12 23:16:55 -0800 2005 1459017 0 Cyndy 2 1459129 I think everyone should worry about HFCS, whether in small or large quantities, because it is in almost everything processed (impossible to buy bread at the grocery store without HFCS in it). It's an unnatural substance that metabolizes in the liver and is in almost all processed foods because it is cheaper. How do we know that taking in small amounts here and there over our lifetimes cannot cause serious problems? Doesn't eating as naturally as possible sound like a better idea? The chemical load we are all walking around with because of processed foods, pesticides on our produce, antibiotics and hormones in our meat and mercury in our fish is insane. Ask the healthy 33 year old with 12 liver tumors of unknown origin (that would be me). I ain't screwin' with my liver. Kristin Sat Feb 12 23:34:18 -0800 2005 1459128 0 krissywats 3 1459158 Yes, I agree. I do know that the actual amount in the L&P can't be that much if you are talking about a mass-based measurement (not that much in it, and you don't use a heck of a lot when you use it). I just think that it is good practice to spend some time trying to avoid it. On the body and the palate! I'm sorry about your liver. I also worry about plastic. At work, many people micriwave their lunches in plastic containers (and styofoam). I see people boiling liquids in thin plastic "tupperware" containers. I also have read that everyone has some concentration of phthalates in their bloodstream! Not to be overly worried, but our evolution took place over hundreds of thousands, millions of years (or 4586, depending). We've only had HFCS for maybe 10 years, plastic for 30, chemicals of any kind for 50, and grains for 5000. Sun Feb 13 07:34:03 -0800 2005 1459129 0 rudeboy 4 1459184 Yep! When we found out about my liver, we threw away everything plastic in our house (the issue is that synthetic estrogens leech into the food - the jury is still out but I'm not taking any risks). I love my new kitchen with only glass containers and storage and bowls, etc. I NEVER heat in plastics, as that is supposed to be the worst. Thanks for the sentiments. I'm fine now (had one painful one removed) and healthy but the issue to me is greater. Look around. What I'm dealing with is not uncommon. I partially blame the crap in our food and our environment. I ate like every other kid growing up in the 70s and 80s - food laden with preservatives, HFCS, caramel coloring (which is just as bad as HFCS), antibiotics, hormones, etc. Now we eat organic produce, organic, free-range meat and dairy, no plastics, and we're slowly moving towards a green home (meaning our next mattress will be without the chemicals or our next couch will be purchased from an earth-friendly company). Little steps. We made the change to glass for around $50 (Container store and IKEA where great places to get this stuff). And, of course, the never ending battle to find food with no HFCS in it. Really, there MUST be a Worchestershire recipe out there SOMEWHERE!!! Sun Feb 13 12:44:05 -0800 2005 1459158 0 Krissywats 3 1459223 Ahhh...I completely misunderstood...for some reason I thought it was strictly a sugar thing. Now that I have read it, I see the point of that! Now I am going to go through my kitchen and snoop out ingredients. I learned something new today! Thank you! Sun Feb 13 20:33:41 -0800 2005 1459129 0 Cyndy 4 1459233 Wonderful! I'm trying to convert everyone I know for the sake of their health! If you take it a step at a time, it's really not that difficult of a transition. And I actually really enjoy doing things like making strawberry syrup for ice cream rather than buying it - and everyone is SO impressed with my ability to boil down strawberries with raw sugar and water - heehee. Sun Feb 13 23:36:46 -0800 2005 1459223 0 krissywats 1 1459180 Are you willing to make it? Emeril Legasse's "Louisiana Real and Rustic" has a recipe. Looks pretty good, with fresh horseradish, anchovies, dark corn syrup and Steen's cane syrup. I haven't made it, but the few other recipes I've tried from the book have been good. It makes six cups and can be refrigerated indefinitely. Link: http://www.afrolicofmyown.com Sun Feb 13 11:53:18 -0800 2005 1459017 0 Frolic 2 1459181 I just decided this morning that I was going to make it, so this is perfect timing. And I have that book! I didn't know that the recipe was in there! Sun Feb 13 12:37:33 -0800 2005 1459180 0 rudeboy 3 1459185 Careful - that dark corn syrup is sure to have HFCS. And worse, caramel coloring. Sigh. Just found this on ochef: "If light corn syrup is not available, you can substitute a sugar syrup made with 1-1/4 cups sugar and 1/3 cup water, boiled together until syrupy. If your recipe calls for dark corn syrup, we’d suggest using a sugar syrup with a dash of dark treacle or unsulfured molasses, both of which are derived from sugar cane." So there ya go - I may try this as well!! Just make sure your molasses is pure and this should work. Sun Feb 13 12:50:03 -0800 2005 1459181 0 krissywats 4 1459215 Thanks for ths tip (I saw those ingedients, and I was secretly going to mess with the recipe to eliminate unpure products). I have access to some very good pure maple syrup, so I may try something with syrup and molasses. I'm going to have to do a little research and learn all about sugars. Sun Feb 13 19:40:21 -0800 2005 1459185 0 rudeboy 5 1459232 I'd probably make a syrup using raw sugar and water, as recommended and then adding in the molasses or maple syrup. However, I bet you could make a syrup using Moscavado sugar (sp?) if you can get your hands on some - then you wouldn't need the added darkness at all. Let me know how it goes - I'll be very interested. Sun Feb 13 23:34:14 -0800 2005 1459215 0 krissywats 1 1459200 Bob, I think that unlike Brits who may use 2tsp /day of Worcestershire sauce, these guys are heavy users (like ketchup), so I guess we need to feed them more With regard to your last comment that in the 'good old days (50 years ago etc.) WS by L&P always had a heavy sediment and you had to shake the bottle, I checked my Worcestershire sauce bottle and it says ''This product contains natural ingredients -some sedimentation may occur''. HFCS is 'high fructose corn syrup' . Apparently this has been introduced in a lot of foods during the last 10-20 years and is thought to be one of the major causes of obesity. To quote Chilidude: ''I've been waging a private war against products that contain High Fructose Corn Sweetener (HFCS) because it is one of the causes of the high rate of US obesity plus other detriments. You may think I'm insane but HFCS is not metabolized like normal food. It goes directly to the liver and causes havoc. Using a search engine, check out websites that are not trying to sell you something''. The bottle I have with me over here, bears exactly the same ingredients as mentioned by Bob i.e, Malt vinegar (from barley), spirit vinegar, molasses, sugar, salt, anchovies, tamarind extract, onions, garlic, spices, flavouring. Converseley, according to Nikki, the bottle she bought from L&P NJ contains some additional ingredients while some other ingredients are not listed such as tamarind extract, garlic, spices (though chilli pepper extract is a spice). Ingredients listed by Nikki are: vinegar, molasses, high fructose corn syrup, anchovies, water, onions, salt, garlic, natural flavorings, chili pepper extract, hydrolyzed soy and corn protein Candy reported that in her local Kroger (Indianapolis) carried L&P stuff with HFCS in it while their own ''Kroger'' brand contained dextrose as a sweetening agent i/o HFCS. In another message Candy said that her own L&P bottle at home lists it as 'corn sweeteners'' and does not mention HFCS specifically ? Krissy Wats says: ''if you look on a bottle of corn syrup, the first ingredient is HFCS. So if they list 'corn syrup' as the ingredient are they just not mentioning that HFCS is part of that?'' Frolic has given a link to a recipe by Emeril Legasse's "Louisiana Real and Rustic" which has a recipe with fresh horseradish, anchovies, dark corn syrup and Steen's cane syrup Am sure you can all draw your own conclusions, however my view is that the Worcestershire sauce/s made or available in the US contain a great variance to the actual/original Worcestershire sauce ingredients or recipe Rudeboy, there is a possibility that the UK produced L&P might be available in Houston, but I shall need to check this out, so if you are interested, let me know and will get back to you. Sun Feb 13 16:30:45 -0800 2005 1459017 0 Amin (London Foodie) 2 1459216 Yes, I'll also check at Central Market in Austin as well! Sun Feb 13 19:43:23 -0800 2005 1459200 0 rudeboy 1 1459213 Hi. Please forgive if this is repeat info for you, as I didn't read all of the comments you got about W. Sauce. I use Annie's Naturals, vegetarian Worcestershire Sauce (no anchovies). It contains: Water, apple cider vinegar, molasses, soy sauce, sugar, tamarind, sea salt, inulin (chicory root extract), cornstarch (approved for organic products), xanthan gum, garlic powder, shallot powder, clove powder, and chile powder. I got it at our whole foods store, but you can contact them at 800-434-1234, or www.anniesnaturals.com. From Vermont. Sun Feb 13 18:43:32 -0800 2005 1459017 0 JennBenn