Japanese Curry from Scratch (you're not going to like it though...)

[Eric Eto]

So I went to the Japanese book store and found a decent cookbook for Yoshoku cuisine (Japanese western style cuisine). While Yoshoku cuisine may be commonly perceived by many as a style of cooking western foods for Japanese tastes, I think it goes far beyond that as it requires so much rigorous attention to details and a focus on French technique. This recipe is adapted from a famous Tokyo restaurant. Also, please note that this recipe will take you several days to make properly. Yes, I said days. I hope this doesn't discourage those of you who are interested.

Ingredients: (sorry you'll have to do your own conversions)
ROUX
-25g Curry powder each S&B and C&B brands (I'm sure you can play with the curry spices to come up with your own mixture)
-100cc vegetable oil
-100g flour

NON-ROUX
-200g finely chopped onions
-vegetable oil for sauteeing
-1 tablespoon grated ginger
-1 tablespoon finely chopped garlic
-1 apple (quartered)
-1 banana (quartered)
-1 tomato (seeded)
-1 tablespoon mango chutney
-1 tablespoon ketchup
-300cc brown veal stock (look up any French cookbook for this)
-1500 cc beef boullion (by this I believe they mean a standard dark beef stock, not the cube of beef bouillon we're accustomed to thinking about here)
-1 tablespoon ground cumin (preferably freshly roasted cumin seeds, and ground)
-rock salt (I think regular salt is fine)
-black pepper
-500g beef (sirloin) thinly sliced

1. Make the roux.
-Saute the flour with the vegetable oil over a medium heat. (I would prefer to use some butter at this point, though this recipe only calls for oil). Saute and mix well with a wooden spoon until the flour and oil are well incorporated.
-Add the curry powder mix and work into the roux until well incorporated.
-In a 120-130 C oven, roast the roux for about 2 hours. (This seems to be an important step to bring out the flavors of the spices.)
-After roasting the roux, cool it and work the mixture with a flat headed wooden spoon (or somesuch utensil) to smooth it out.
-Set aside

2. Prepare the other ingredients
-Saute the onions in oil until browned and well caramelized. Set aside.
-Saute the ginger, garlic until fragrant. Add the onion mixture.
-Add enough beef stock to the ginger/garlic/onion mixture to make a thin paste
-In a blender, add the apple, banana, tomato, mango chutney, ketchup, and the ginger/garlic/onion paste, and blend until smooth

3. Blend the roux
-Add the pureed mixture to the roux over medium heat. Keep mixing.
-Add the veal stock and stir into the roux mixture.
-As you keep stirring the curry sauce, add hot beef stock gradually until you get to a suitable thick sauce
-Simmer for at least an hour, making sure to keep mixing it so the bottom doesn't burn
-Add the cumin, mix, and simmer for another hour.

4. Allow the sauce to "mature"
-The instructions states to let the curry sauce rest for at least 4 days (yes, 4 days) to mature. I'm not sure if this means in the fridge or at room temperature. In my experience, it is left at a cool room temperature, and at some point each day, brought to a simmer for a little bit and allowed to cool down to room temperature again. Yes, four days of this. Perhaps this step is a bit obsessive, but some experts say it's crucial.

5. Prepare the beef and finish
-Saute the beef, salt and pepper, and some curry powder to taste
-When the beef is cooked to about medium, add it to the curry sauce.

6. Eat the damn thing. Over hot rice.

OK, so there it is. Japanese curry from scratch made by an overly obsessive Yoshoku chef. Remember, also that making a proper fond de veau (veal stock) can take 3 days to make, not to mention a proper beef stock. I'll probably use some shortcuts, like a store-bought demi glace sauce. So maybe you'll gain an appreciation of what went into making that plate of Japanese curry next time you eat at a fancy Yoshoku restaurant in Japan (I haven't found one in the US, so no need to ponder that here).

[kate]

Interesting.

As you said, this is an incredibly labour-intensive recipe, but no doubt delicious. But it always makes me wonder - is the enjoyment I'd get out of this fifty times more than the enjoyment I get out of my quick and easy cilantro yoghurt chicken curry recipe? Whilst it is difficult to measure something so ephemeral, I suspect not. Whilst I do occasionally make things that warrant a ridiculous amount of time and effort (oeufs a la neige come to mind), these never become mainstays of my kitchen.

For me, recipes like this make great eye candy, but this is the sort of thing I would go to a Japanese restaurant for, because chances are even after following this recipe to a T, a Japanese chef would, with his immense experience, make this much better than me.

But thanks for the eye candy! Sonds delicious...

[rudeboy]

Whilst I often get better thai food at restaurants that I can ever prepare myself, I will never stop trying to prepare excruciating thai recipes in my own kitchen. The difference is that I love to cook.

You may be confused in that this recipe takes a long time to mature - that doesn't mean that it is labor intensive. My gumbo recipe is similarly time intensive. And, in fact, labor intensive as well. So what?

[Yukari Pratt]

Eric, curious what the name of the cookbook series is. Everyday for lunch I eat at a quiet space located directly across the street from one of the most famous Yoshoku restaurants in Japan, Taimeiken. It is located at Nihonbashi, just a minute from the station. I am amazed and fascinated at the number of people standing in line. Especially on the weekends. Have not been, but can`t imagine it is as good as the outrageous prices they charge.

[Professor Salt]

I'm glad you posted this, since I've recently become obsessed with the incredibly delicious Japanese curry at a place in Costa Mesa, CA. They make theirs with the rich pork broth from their ramen soup.

Interesting that this recipe calls for browning the roux in an oven, since most Japanese homes don't have ovens. Eric, is this a book for professional chefs that most home cooks aren't ever going to cook out of?

[Eric Eto]

This Yoshoku book is based on a series called "Professional techniques" and the main title is called something like "How to become a famous Yoshoku Chef", with recipes from some of the more famous Yoshoku restaurants in Japan. By the way, there's also a book dedicated just to curry in this series. So, perhaps it's not for the novice home cook, but I wouldn't follow this recipe to the letter, as I don't with recipes from any cookbooks. IMO, recipes are for inspiration, but execution is up to individual judgment. I'll applaud anyone who will go through the process illustrated in my original post. It's unlikely that I'll go through all that, but at least I now know what the proper processes are, and what shortcuts I can and shouldn't take to make a reasonable facsimile of a serious japanese curry. Funny thing is that I never really knew about that "maturation" step, but after reading that I remembered how the chef at a Japanese restaurant where I once worked, used to make curry for staff meals, and I would find a vat of curry sitting in some odd corner from time to time. That was some of the very best curry I've had, and I'm beginning to understand how those chefs who are serious about their curry go about making it, and don't take shortcuts in their approach.

I suppose I should reiterate again that I tend not to compare this style of curry to other southeast asian curry. It's quite a different animal and has more in common with etouffe or beouf bourgignon than to thai or indian style curry.

[Eric Eto]

I just reread your post and wanted to make a correction. The recipe doesn't call for browning the roux in the oven. It says to make a roux with oil and flour, and add the curry spices, then *roast* the roux mixture (not browning) in an oven. A toaster oven would work just as well for this procedure, which are fairly common in Japanese kitchens. I think one way to circumvent this step is to use your own spice mix from seeds, dry roast/toast them, and grind it before you add it to the roux. I believe because they are using a commercial pre-ground product for the curry spice, the roasting step is a way to bring out the flavors and aroma.

[eezerik]

Do you mind naming the place?

[kare_raisu]

This post goes down in the history of Chowhound as one of its finest - any rate thanks for ressurecting it.

I'd be willing to bet the place professor salt refers to -is in the Mitsuwa food court.

[PayOrPlay]

This is a fascinating post, thank you, Eric. In past threads about curry mixes vs. made-from-scratch, the usual consensus has been that everyo home cook in Japan (and maybe a large portion of the restaurants there and here as well) uses the mixes, and I guess we can see why. At the end of the day, I'd be very interested in hearing from anyone who undertakes this project (or any other scratch Japanese curries) about the end results, and the extent to which taking all this time does (and doesn't) produce an improved result. I'd be interested in whether there may be some sort of "moderate" approach to this--using some short cuts but not others to get to an end product that has a fresher taste of spices than something like House brand, but with a maximally efficient expenditure of personal effort vs. letting the factory do the grunt work.

[yimster]

That is a lot of work. I sure it was worth it. But just how much better than a mix was it? Is it worth the work for a home cook that will not use curry that much?

Thank you for the post if was very interesting.

[Eric Eto]

I was perusing an archive of a Japanese web-magazine and I found this recipe for Japanese curry. It's much less obsessive as the one I posted originally, and with helpful photos. As you can see, there are probably hundreds of variations on Japanese curry recipes. I'm learning as I read up more on it. On the linked recipe page, if you hit the "back" button at the bottom of the page, you'll find an article about Japanese curry.

Link: http://web-japan.org/nipponia/nipponi...

[Helen F]

Hi Eric,

This recipe looks a lot saner than the first one you wrote about. That one was enough to send me back to the hydrogenated, fat-filled, break-apart bars.

I noticed the recipe calls for both garam masala and curry powder - I wonder what a Japanese home cook would understand this to be, and if it differs from the curry powder I would expect to find in the spice section of a typical American supermarket, or in an Asian supermarket here in NYC. Do you know? I sometimes look for curry powder in places like Pacific or HK supermarkets, hoping to find something I can use to do an end run around the fat bars, but I've never seen something that was simply labeled "curry powder." Can anyone clue me in?

[Eric Eto]

The most popular Japanese brand of curry powder is S&B, which is in a bright yellow and red tin. I'm pretty certain I've seen it at Chinese markets (like Pacific or HK), but I can't remember if I've seen it in the Japanese food aisle or with the other spices.

Note that this recipe is strikingly different from most Japanese curries in that it doesn't start with a roux base. It seems like this chef is making a curry more similar to Indian curry. I would prefer to start with a roux and use beef and beef or veal stock, to achieve a darker, richer, and meatier sauce.

[Helen F]

Bright yellow and red -- how the heck did I miss it?

I was kind of surprised to see yogurt in the recipe. Your surmise that it's an Indian-inspired curry interpretation makes sense. Meanwhile, my head is spinning from trying to imagine how this recipe would result in anything like what you get from cubes. And it sounds too darn healthy, especially when compared to the older (i.e., lardy & suety) version of the cubes! But it does look tasty. I'll have to give it a try.

Thanks for reporting on this quest.

Helen

[Mein lo]

I think the article that precedes the curry is a little confusing, but if you read it all the way to the very end, it starts to talk about the growing popularity of thai and indian style curries. It then segues into the recipe by talking about this chef and how he learned to make curry from his indian son-in-law. It kind of makes it sound like this isn't the "traditional" japanes style (though it seems like it has been adapted to suit the japanese taste, so to speak)

[willownt]

Wild. I have a soft spot in my heart for Japanese curry, particularly when it has corn in it. Even my Japanese friends think it's funny that I like it.

I don't think I'd bother going to all that work, though!

BTW There's an interesting discussion in Curry Cuisine with the story behind Japanese curry, as well as curries from around the world. A neat book.

[isabelle94]

I haven't tried Eric's recipe (although I'm sure it's great) but have been using a recipe I found on Saveur's website. I searched high and low for a Japanese curry recipe from scratch and this one is very nice. It's also fast and easy to make.

http://www.saveur.com/food/new-recipe...

[Splendid Spatula]

I make this a couple of times every winter - it is DELICIOUS.

[bigjeff]

Willownt, just picked up a copy of that book Curry Cuisine, edited by Corinne Trang; this is the same book you are referring to? I found it to be an excellent book and I haven't even gone through half the book yet, just reading through it slowly.

[dimitori]

Hi all,

I'm very happy I found this board and thanks to Eric for posting this recipe. I've been going to Japan for many years and every time my love for Kare Rice has grown bigger.

I've been always curious to figure out how it was done before the processed Curry Roux was invented.
And since I don't read japanese i couldn't get the info until I found this post.

So yes, I did try the posted recipe !
Twice !

Once with beef and once with pork. Of course I didn't follow every single detail, but I stayed pretty close, adapting to my taste, but indeed going through the 3 days maturing process (only once though...)

So here are my little comments:

To me, the most important element in the recipe is actually the one that is not detailed here: the brown veal stock, or fond de veau in traditional french cuisine.
It is something totally lost from most french restaurants unfortunately, replaced usually by processed/dehydrated products.
I believe this gives Japanese curry 50% or more of it's flavour and it is also where you can taste the difference between a processed roux based curry from a real one as the recipe depicts.

I've tried my hand at making such a stock a few times, and although it's a bit of a lengthy chore, it's totally worthwile as it can serve many different recipes and bring an unparalled taste and body to the dish.

I won't go into its recipe here, there are surely many to be found.

I do however suggest you getting the biggest stock pot that can fit your stove. The final reduction is typically less than 1/15 of the amount of liquid you're starting with. So the bigger your pot is, the more you get for the amount of hassle preparing it.
You can then do the classic but effective trick of freezing the stock in ice cube trays and using it when needed in portions that can be dissolved in hot liquid.

Another thing I noticed in the recipe worth commenting, is the meat preparation. Following the recipe's cooking direction with beef that's not of Japanese standards will surely yield bad results, in the form of pretty hard and tasteless meat pieces.
Japanese beef, even of the most basic quality is always much fatter and marbleized than the one found in western countries. There is so much fat laced in it that it is not red but pink, going to almost white for the most expensive cuts (in that style we usually know Kobe or Wagyu beef, but there are much more varieties in Japan)

So quickly frying japanese sirloin slices and throwing them in the curry sauce sounds indeed like a delicious idea. The fat will keep the meat tasty and moist until it's soon eaten. I would however suggest to avoid if you don't have that kind of meat at hand.

So what I did, is starting with the brown stock to which I added after a few hours of having the bones cooking, seared pieces of "stew" beef (I couldn't tell you which part of the animal it is)
This has the double advantage of adding taste to the stock while starting to cook the meat pieces that need a good 2 to 3 hours before being fully tender.

While this was going on the stove, I did the curry roux. I used the exact same powder brands and followed every step.

After the 2 hours of slow roasting, i didn't regret I did it.
The roux came out with a delicious fragrance of a curry cake. I believe the roasting not only brings out the flavor of the spices but more notably of the flour. The secret of achieving a good roux is on well roasting the flour. Doing this in the oven instead of the traditional frypan method is a great and quite foolproof idea.

Now the one thing that didn't quite come out well, was the taste of the curry roux. It was way to hot (spicy)
On my second attempt at the recipe I tried a less hot curry powder, but again too strong.

For those familar with the Japanese Curry houses degrees of hotness we were into "karakuchi" domain or 4 in a scale of 5.

I shall try only 25 grams instead of 50 of curry powder next time

After 2 hours of cooking the stock,I transferred some of it to another pot (use the quantity you want for your final curry sauce)

I didn't fry the ginger and garlic and blended with apple and banana.
I only a big piece of peeled ginger in the new pot, and an oven roasted head of garlic.

I added some canned sweetened apple puree (compote) but later towards the end, and I highly recommend that for extra body and sweetness

I also put two tablespoon of chutney, but a japanese "mixed fruit" variety from the Gaban brand that had a very molasses like texture and a slightly vinegary taste

In the new pot I put a blend of entire spices in a gaze bag tied with rope: black pepper, white peper, cardamon pods, cloves, cumin seeds, coriander seeds and a cinnamon stick
This gives the stock a great curry spice flavor, without the hotness

I cooked this for another hour

In again another smaller pot I put the roasted roux and mixed in some of the new "curry stock"
When it was well blended I poured it back into the above stock.

I picked the cooked meat piece from the brown stock pot and added to the curry sauce.

I then finished the cooking of the meat another hour roughly, additionally seasoned with salt (no salt before !) and a little sugar

I left it on the stove at room temp, boiled the next 3 days, once in the morning and once before bedtime :)

Of course I tasted throughout the whole process

I did it again with pork, pretty much same scenario but started with a pork stock of which half went to a tonkotsu ramen dinner.

I didn't do the maturation the second time, it does taste fuller if you do it, but the difference isn't worth the extra work.

Now, the BIG question is: is it better than the processed roux Curries ?

Well, yes it is, BUT not enourmously different
There is much more body in the sauce, and the taste stays much longer in your mouth with a delicious aftertaste.

But it was too spicy hot and that really annoyed me. I believe getting the curry spices mix right is of the highest importance. Any info on the proportions is welcome

Since the other key element is the stock, I do more often a recipe where I start with a home made stock (beef, chicken or pork)
I follow the same steps, only that I use a factory made roux that i dissolve in the second "curry stock".
If you choose the right roux (not too MSG strong) you get an extremely rich and natural tasting curry.
(My favorite processed roux is House's Dinner Curry)

Now I have a question for the other the curry fans out there.
My actual favorite basic restaurant curry, is the Japanese Fransu Te one
They sell it also in pouches for the home and it taste almost exactly like the one in the restaurants.
However I was wondering if there was a processed roux that was tasting similar, I've tried quite a few but have yet to find it.
If anyone has, please let us know !

thanks to all

[The Dairy Queen]

Welcome to Chowhound and thank you for your terrific post, and, for reviving this post. I hadn't seen it before. I do hope someone answers your question!

~TDQ

[Joebob]

It might be easier to fly to Oahu and just buy a few boxes of genuine "Vermont Curry".

[hankstramm]

OK, I'm trying this this weekend. I might minimalist the recipe--whatever that means...