273541 Tue Nov 16 09:48:10 -0800 2004 24 28 Kosher 0 1439625 Does anyone know where I can find kosher Apple Cider? Alternatively, does anyone know if apple cider requires a hechser? Tue Nov 16 09:48:10 -0800 2004 0 Chulent Hound 1 1439626 http://www.freshdirect.com/category.jsp?catId=dai_juice_appl&prodCatId=dai_juice_appl&productId=aplcider_rjo_halfgal&trk=srch Tue Nov 16 11:02:02 -0800 2004 1439625 0 DeisCane 1 1439627 Rad Jacket Orchards, Scrumpy, and Zeiglers all have hechshers. Tue Nov 16 11:12:09 -0800 2004 1439625 0 AndeB 1 1439629 I can't answer your first question, but I can surely answer your second: Nowadays, everything requires a hechsher -- vegetables, water, wigs, you-name-it. In fact, based on the Empire chicken saga and some of the retail stores in my neighborhood (Flatbush, Brooklyn), it appears that two hechshers are, if not required, then certainly better than one. Tue Nov 16 13:39:26 -0800 2004 1439625 0 uncle moishy 2 1439630 That is just craziness. Shouldn't we spend more time doing something productive (tikkun olam, spending time with family, studying Torah) than spending this insane amount of time worrying about how kosher we can get? Isn't kosher good enough? Really, this should concern us all because it really does detract (time wise) from a huge number of other things we need/could do. Plus, it divides the community, a serious problem as well. Why must something be extra-super-duper-magnificently kosher? Why goes a gadol-hador need to personally know the cow whose ribs I'm eating in order for it to be kosher? Why does the full beit din need to inspect broccoli before I can consume it. Isn't it just good enough that a Rabbi from the XYZ certifying agency certifies it? What if we just say, yes, this Rabbi - in association with an appropriate certifying agency says its kosher. So it is. Maybe we need to get a back bone and tell all these Rabbis they are crazy and we are not doing it. We don't care how many times something is supervised. Once is good enough for us. If we all did this, the Rabbis, at some point, would have to reconsider or adapt their expectations to the place and time as they have done so many times in the past. I'm done now. Tue Nov 16 13:59:27 -0800 2004 1439629 0 texasmensch 3 1439632 I certainly agree with you. We spend more time sweating the details than we do actually looking at the big stuff that makes judaism so great. Some things will just never be kosher enough for some people. I personally buy my cider form local places that make cider. Since they are making nothing but cider from trees a stone's throw away, that is good enough for me. In fact it seems to be to more of a mensch-like activity to support my local farmer than to support a corporation. Tue Nov 16 15:26:06 -0800 2004 1439630 0 baruch 4 1439634 Go to Kashrut.org for more info on what needs a hechsher and what does not. Tue Nov 16 16:08:59 -0800 2004 1439632 0 Abby 5 1439642 Thanks but i fail to see the point of your post. I dont need to go to kashrut.org to see what needs a hechsher and what does not. I was simply agreeing with Texasmensch and not looking for "help" in figuring out what needs certification. Wed Nov 17 08:55:38 -0800 2004 1439634 0 baruch 6 1439647 Sorry, I was just trying to be of help. I thought that website could help people with whole Kashrut certification issue... If you didn't appreciate it, I'm sorry Wed Nov 17 11:38:23 -0800 2004 1439642 0 Abby 7 1439648 No need to be sorry, nor did i say i did not appreciate it. Just not what I was posting about at all. thanks Wed Nov 17 13:58:39 -0800 2004 1439647 0 baruch 4 1439689 The problem with apple cider is not necessarily the cider itself. It is that many ciders are made by wineries which complicates things greatly. Although I don't have an answer for your original question, I have had similar problems finding kosher mead for the same reason. There are a couple of meaderies which have kosher certification, but given the fact that they are small operations, and alcohol importation laws are complicated to say the least, it is difficult for me to actually get my favorite alcoholic beverage on a regular basis. Mon Nov 22 16:52:46 -0800 2004 1439632 0 Michael 3 1439638 The laws of kashrus are from G-d. Therefore, scrupulous care in following those laws should be praised, not criticized. Attention to detail is a way of showing love for Hashem, since it demonstrates respect for His laws. Rather than be critical of those who want to be careful with kashrus - those individuals are to be praised. They aren't missing the big picture; they are living it, b'simcha. Tue Nov 16 23:16:25 -0800 2004 1439630 0 JOE 4 1439643 That is certainly the stock answer for those that believe immersing themselves in details is the way to go. But there are plenty of examples in Judaism where the details are not as important as the spirit. Or where immersing yourself so deeply in minutae distracts you from seeing the bigger picture. So there is another side to it where detail immersion shows LACK of respect and love for Hashem. Anyone know of local cider mills (wherever in the country) that have certification. Or better yet, a cider mill that is jewish owned and operated? Wed Nov 17 08:58:42 -0800 2004 1439638 0 baruch 5 1439644 Writing off the cuff here, I wonder just what are some of those examples where the details are less important than the spirit of the law? I find that both sides in these disputes are too ready to ignore or dismiss the "details of the law" in order to advance the argument that the idea being advocated is in the "spirit of the law" (whether that idea is a needless stringency, such as the position that a kitchen with only one sink cannot be kosher, or where the idea is a leniency of convenience, such as the dismissal of any possibility of problems with bug infestations in produce). That is one reason why I think the details are so important: to tell us precisely what the spirit of the law is, and to keep us off the slippery slope leading to where "law" becomes a completely subjective concept. Wed Nov 17 10:31:29 -0800 2004 1439643 0 Beerhound 6 1439645 This board is supposed to be about good kosher food and where to find it. I really think it is pointless to debate different theological or spiritual viewpoints here, it is not appropriate, and the moderators will intervene, and rightly so. Not everyone who reads this board is strictly observant, there are many Jews and non Jews alike who enjoy "kosher", and "kosher style" food. I recently got involved with a similiar debate regarding the kosher water thread, and frankly, the direction was heading the same--to nowheresville. There are obviously people who do things by the book, and people who think outside that realm. There are people who follow a system calling it spirituality, and yet, there are other who see it as a farce, or only a means for reward, and materialism. Theology doesn't belong in this format, it is far too serious, and personal, and there is no resolution when opinions are just different, and they will remain so. So, can we just see if we can think of a place for the Apple Cider, that was the question, afterall, --since the simplicity of a nice glass of cool cider, or warmed cider is pure joy! Have you tried: http://www.kimescidermill.com/index.html approved by ok kosher --does that do it for you? Wed Nov 17 11:13:00 -0800 2004 1439644 0 Janie 7 1439646 Thanks for the link. Nice that it is a local (at least in PA), family owned cider mill. Wed Nov 17 11:35:22 -0800 2004 1439645 0 baruch 7 1439655 You are 100% right! The problem, though, is with people who upload messages on this site in a mocking manner and who are highly critical and sarcastic of those who adhere to a stricter standard than they do. Unfortunately - there are people with agendas - and they are intolerant when someone else's observance differs from their own. As far as I am concerned - those who wish to keep to the highest level of kashrus, in terms of being very careful with details, are to be praised. And yet, there are those who regularly post on this site, who cannot wait to be critical of such people. Wed Nov 17 22:16:39 -0800 2004 1439645 0 JOE 8 1439657 I don't think it's a matter of praise or criticism, this wherein the problem lies, I think. If one follows a very strict observance, I hope it is because they believe it in their heart, and if someone does not, then I hope they believe in what they do is right within their heart. What I think is inappropriate is for one Jew to judge another in their practices, in relation to their spiritual belief. There are no measurements for these things. I have known many observant Jews who follow all the kosher laws to the letter, and they are not kind people, nor are they honest in business dealings..and one is judged on this firstly, before the rest. And I have known non observant Jews who don't follow anything except, showing up at temple on high holidays, and they are exemplary citizens. I have seen Observant Jews who are wonderful in both realms, as well. So, my feeling about the whole rule thing, not just in regards to the food, but the rest of the laws, is do what you "feel", do not do something out of obligation, or fear, or simply, routine. Do something, do anything, because it makes you feel closer to the creator. So, to all the people who just want to be spiteful on the site, well, you have the same thing on the other boards, in terms of snobbery, or other snide comments---just ignore it. I have no problem with anyone requesting info, if I can be of help, I try to be. But, I think you begin in a difficult place, if you automatically elevate someone's ritual's to praise, without knowing their intent, and perhaps this is where the criticism that you site, might be coming from. I haven't seen a lot of it, on this board, I think it's been fairly tolerant all around--but yes, you are right, it is certainly not right to judge someone's belief system, without knowing them. We can only answer a question based on the requirements given, so best to answer the question in relation to food, and save the personal commentary, for the personal, which the web is not--afterall, we are strangers. Wed Nov 17 23:25:08 -0800 2004 1439655 0 Janie 8 1439658 "Unfortunately - there are people with agendas - and they are intolerant when someone else's observance differs from their own." So we all agree that everyone should respect everyone else's levels of observance, and get back to discussing food? Excellent! Let's all take a break from discussions of certification and observance and start talking about food again. So, warm cider is good? Do you put spices in yours? Solo's tables are too close together? Mike's duck gnocchi are really worth checking out? Is Chickpea's shwarma as good as their falafel? Why can't I get a pareve pumpkin pie recipe that I don't have to tinker with every year to get right? And so on... Wed Nov 17 23:29:06 -0800 2004 1439655 0 Clarissa 9 1439659 Let's hope so, Clarissa! Because I'm pregnant, and hungry!! I love apple cider warm, with cinnamon stick, and whipped cream on top---yum! Because fresh cider is usually unpasterized though, a lot of doctors tell pregnant women not to drink it, but the mills say to just dilute it with water, or it could cause stomach upset...Haven't had it this year, but I do love it! Does anyone know where to get kosher pistachio macaroon cookies not at Passover, but now? Or, do they know a great recipe for them. In NY, at Carmel in Rego Park, on 108th street they sell packaged ones from a bakery in Long Island, Cedarhurst, I think...can't remember the name- will look next time I'm there--they have other stuff from them year round like date cookies..etc.......but their pistachio macaroon cookies are so incredible, and I wish they made them all year long....when Carmel gets them in, they sell out in hours....I always buy several boxes,and give them away---as whoever has one, begs for the rest!! So glad, we are going back to food.......thank you!!! Thu Nov 18 00:16:36 -0800 2004 1439658 0 Janie 10 1439661 I don't have a good recipe, but if you go to Epicurious and type "macaroon" into the recipe search, there are many recipes for almond macaroons. I'm guessing that you could subsitute pistachios for almonds and you might get something good. You might have to play with the recipe a bit, since most have other ingredients (zest and extract) and you'd have to decide what goes with pistachios. I used to always buy Schick's macaroons for Pesach, but in recent years they've gotten so expensive, and some boxes seem to be kind of stale when we open them. I don't know if this is the fault of the factory or the people selling them. Why would cider mills say that unpasteurized cider is okay if diluted? The problem isn't the thickness of the cider, it's the possibility of bacteria, right? Thu Nov 18 07:53:08 -0800 2004 1439659 0 Clarissa 11 1439665 Thanks Clarissa for the suggestion, but this cookie is not really macaroon like in appearance...it doesn't look like a macaroon, it just kinda tastes like one, but looks very meringuey with pistachio's and the hint of macaroons...I think I'm going to contact the bakery when I remember the name and ask them if there's any way to get some earlier! Q. Is your cider safe to drink for my children? While I’m pregnant? For my grandparents? A. YES, YES, YES!! Everyone in our family, from 3 years to 90 years, drinks our fresh apple cider. For our toddlers, we do dilute the cider with some water otherwise it might cause diarrhea. If you are pregnant and experiencing some gastritis, consult your physician about diluting with water or heating fresh cider before drinking. this was the response online from Westview orchards, and I got a similar response by phone from another,advising heating it as follows: You can pasteurize apple cider at home for an extra margin of safety. To pasteurize, heat it to at least 160 degrees. If you don't have an appropriate thermometer, heat to simmering (when bubbles appear on the surface). It appears to run the risk of carrying ecoli bacteria....I'm playing it safe, and avoiding it all together......but I sure do like it! Thu Nov 18 12:32:24 -0800 2004 1439661 0 Janie 12 1439674 I don't know if you're still checking this thread, but I wanted to mention one macaroon possibility, if you feel like baking. On Epicurious, if you type in "almond macaroon," there's a recipe on the first list of recipe links which is called "Almond Macaroons" and is from a cookbook called Let My People Eat. I haven't made them, but there is a comment that they are very meringue-like, and somebody successfully used pistachios. Just an idea for one of those days when you're gestating and nesting and feel like baking a treat. Fri Nov 19 10:22:15 -0800 2004 1439665 0 Clarissa 13 1439677 Well, I'm definitely nesting, the problem is how long I can keep bending to pull out my over rack on my own! Thanks for the tip, I will check it out--and see if I can duplicate them-- Fri Nov 19 19:15:49 -0800 2004 1439674 0 Janie 3 1439639 Thanks for a great post. It's time to start encouraging people to use their common sense. Things are getting way, way, way out of hand. Time to go drink some certified bottled water. You know, it really does taste better that way! Tue Nov 16 23:28:58 -0800 2004 1439630 0 Clarissa