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Rumor on Chicken being Parve

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DeisCane Jul 4, 2004 11:00 PM

I know it's a longtime argument, but I heard a rumor that last week, an orthodox rabbi made some statement about chicken and parve. Anyone else hear this? I can't find anything online.

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  1. z
    Zev Sero RE: DeisCane Jul 5, 2004 07:19 PM

    This was settled about 1800 years ago. Chicken is definitely meat, the only question is whether it's from the Torah or rabbinic. What you may have heard is someone teaching a class about the origins of this law, and the argument over whether it's Torah law or rabbinic, but no Orthodox rabbi has or could have said that it's parve today.

    8 Replies
    1. re: Zev Sero
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      Josh RE: Zev Sero Jul 6, 2004 12:15 AM

      Actually, it is just as settled that it is rabbinic law as it is that it is meat.

      I'm glad you find yourself able to act as the mouthpiece for the entire Orthodox rabbinate.

      1. re: Josh
        z
        Zev Sero RE: Josh Jul 6, 2004 07:48 PM

        Not quite. Or rather, as a matter of practical law, yes, but see Tosefos Chulin 104b which seems to hold that it is torah law; on the basis of this tosefos, the Bach and the Maharshal also rule that it's torah law. Yes, they're a minority, but it means the matter isn't seen as 100% settled, even as late as the early acharonim. Certainly a rabbi today could rule like the Bach and Maharshal, though I doubt there are any who actually do so.

        Whereas there is no way any rabbi could rule that it's actually parve, and that there's not at least a rabbinic prohibition on eating chicken with milk; yes, R Yose Haglili held that way, but the gemara clearly rules against him, and there is no subsequent authority for his position.

        1. re: Zev Sero
          j
          Josh RE: Zev Sero Jul 7, 2004 04:50 PM

          So to paraphrase you, there was discussion back in the day on whether chicken was meat and whether if it was meat, its separation from milk would be a Torah law.

          Today, there is almost unanimous agreement that it is meat but its separation from milk is not Torah law.

          Exactly my point.

          1. re: Josh
            e
            Elisa RE: Josh Dec 9, 2004 08:42 AM

            I think it should be parve!

        2. re: Josh
          k
          Kosher Goose RE: Josh Jul 7, 2004 08:17 AM

          It's funny this is a topic- I'm no expert, but when I started keeping kosher 4 years ago, I understood that from the Torah we don't mix meat and milk. But it did not follow (in my line of reasoning)why we could eat egg and chicken together. Cow and mother's milk, chicken and it's unfertilized offspring. hmmm. Doesn't make sense to me, but glad that is the way it is because eggs are so pervasive in cooking.

          1. re: Josh
            k
            Kosher Goose RE: Josh Jul 7, 2004 08:18 AM

            It's funny this is a topic- I'm no expert, but when I started keeping kosher 4 years ago, I understood that from the Torah we don't mix meat and milk. But it did not follow (in my line of reasoning)why we could eat egg and chicken together. Cow and mother's milk, chicken and it's unfertilized offspring. hmmm. Doesn't make sense to me, but glad that is the way it is because eggs are so pervasive in cooking.

            1. re: Kosher Goose
              d
              dude RE: Kosher Goose Jul 7, 2004 10:57 AM

              FWIW, I (even more not an expert but familiar with the relevant passages in Exodus)don't get that either. I also don't understand not mixing poultry and dairy, based on the relevant passages (yes, I know all kinds of rabbinic opinion says that you can't, but I don't have the level of interest to go probing into the mishna and/or gemarra to find out how it came to be interpreted that way.)

              A simple explanation would be great...

              1. re: dude
                f
                Father Goose RE: dude Jul 20, 2004 09:59 PM

                Take a quick look at Yoreh Deah 87 & 89

        3. l
          Levial RE: DeisCane Jul 6, 2004 11:13 AM

          I'm smiling because when I first started to keep kosher, I bought frozen empire chicken breasts at a wholesale club in Cleveland (BJ's). The chicken was O-U with a "P" next to it. For some reason I thought it meant Pareve! (I know, I know..) so I was contemplating calling the company to ask if it was a manufacturing error that the tag said P but then the next day realized what it was.- Saw this posting and had a moment of irony. Thanks.

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