27319 Thu Jan 08 19:13:23 -0800 2004 16 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 112344 i was hoping to take a friend to zatar's in berkeley tonight but they're closed for the next week. any recommendations out there on other restaurants in the east bay that serve only or primarily organic foods (meat and produce)? thanks! Thu Jan 08 19:13:23 -0800 2004 0 Euphorbia 1 112354 Chez Panisse Cafe? It might end up being a tad more than Zatar, but it's definitely worth it. I'm sure there are others in the East Bay - why am I having such trouble thinking of them? Thu Jan 08 19:30:46 -0800 2004 112344 0 Alexandra 2 112357 thanks. some other possiblities friends in my office have suggested include rivoli's, uzen, o chame, and oliveto's. but no one was really certain of their commitment to organics. maybe you know? Thu Jan 08 19:54:30 -0800 2004 112354 0 euphorbita 3 112359 I wish I could help you. They all seem like restaurants that would, in theory, be committed to that sort of thing. But you might want to call them and check. Breads of India (Sacramento at Dwight) used to use a lot of organic ingredients, but I haven't been there in a while, so they might have changed things. Cha-ya on Shattuck at Virginia is vegan Japanese, and seems like it might just use organic vegetables, but don't trust my word for it! Razan's Organic Kitchen is 100% organic (Kittredge at Oxford) but I can't vouch in any way for the quality of the food - it's always looked a little scary to me. http://www.rivolirestaurant.com http://www.oliveto.com Thu Jan 08 20:07:26 -0800 2004 112357 0 Alexandra 4 112360 I like O Chame quite a lot and they prob. use organic products, but not certain. Possibly also Cafe Rouge, also on 4th. Street? I've never eaten at Raphael, the new Italian place in the heart of downtown Berkeley, but here's their link: Link: http://www.ristoranteraphael.com/ Thu Jan 08 20:22:14 -0800 2004 112359 0 Margot 5 113612 My two cents worth regarding Razan's Organic Kitchen. Unbeatable! Almost everything is organic, the food is very tasty and very healthy. I have visited many times and their buritto's have become my staple marathon training food. Nice big serves. Well priced. Good food for body and mind! Also nice organic fresh squeezed juices. Two big thumbs up from me. Thu Feb 12 02:47:55 -0800 2004 112360 0 Tim 1 112394 Check out the link below. This organization is trying to convert more east bay restaurants to green practices, which I assume means organic whenever possible. There are a few listed here. I think there are more. Cafe Rouge is listed. http://www.sagecenter.org/agroots2.htm#food Fri Jan 09 00:45:03 -0800 2004 112344 0 veebee 1 112428 Sustainability is a patchwork principle in most restaurants. Chez Panisse is focused on the concept, and Oliveto follows almost as closely. Not many places have direct deliveries from farms and ranches. Most restaurants buy their ingredients from wholesale distributors. They follow sustainability principles in a less dogmatic fashion. Rivoli buys greens from an East Bay backyard grower, and who would know it? On the low end, there's Picante's commitment to using Niman meats. A new little place called Dopo on Piedmont also uses Niman and shops at the farmer's market for some of their ingredients. Customers who are willing to pay more for this level of commitment need to patronize places that stick their necks out and support the growers. Look for restaurants that call out the farm source on their menu ala' Chez Panisse. The growers themselves are under fire from increasing land costs, new USDA standards, and competition from large corporate farms. The ultimate commitment to this idea comes from your own garden, a membership in a CSA, shopping the farmer's markets, buying wild fish, and ethically raised meats. Fri Jan 09 12:36:45 -0800 2004 112344 0 k. gerstenberger 2 112553 Has anyone a good CSA to recommend that delivers to San Francisco and in suitable quantities for one person? I belonged to a CSA (Terra Firma) awhile back, and recommended it to a friend. She and I both loved the produce, and supporting local agriculture, and all of that, but we both ended up dropping it eventually as a result of separate and unrelated frustrating experiences with their recordkeeping. Making mistakes is one thing, but being belligerant and inflexible about them is another. Anyway, I recall picking Terra Firma over some of their competitors because I liked that they delivered "small" boxes, suitable for a single person. Anyone have any recommendations? By the way, here's the article that put me on to Terra Firma, though it's pretty stale by now. By the way, I do recommend Terra Firma for the produce; I just don't recommend their accounting department. ;-) ~TDQ Link: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2003/05/14/FD140473.DTL Sun Jan 11 10:28:26 -0800 2004 112428 0 The Dairy Queen 3 112554 *blush* belligerent, not belligerant. That's why I'm The Dairy Queen and not The Spelling Queen. But, to keep this post chow focused, I shall now post a link to Terra Firma's website for those of you more interested in good produce than good accounting. ~TDQ Link: http://www.terrafirmafarm.com/ Sun Jan 11 10:33:37 -0800 2004 112553 0 The Dairy Queen 3 112621 I've been a member of Terra Firma for about 15 months and I've never had any issues with them or their accounting. Though oftentimes Pablito's newsletters read a little disgruntled or maybe cranky, so I can see why you may have gotten attitude. I pay them montly through Pay Pal. I don't know when you had your problems. Perhaps they've cleaned up their act? As far as I can tell, Terra Firma is the only farm that does the small, medium and large sized boxes. I've looked around. For what that's worth.... Mon Jan 12 02:30:25 -0800 2004 112553 0 veebee 1 112473 It bugs me so much when people conflate organic and sustainable. Some of our best local providers are not organic, but are far more sustainability-minded then their orgnaic competitors (niman, for instance). As another poster said, look for farm names, not the word organic. Especially around here. Fri Jan 09 17:43:59 -0800 2004 112344 0 ads 2 112482 niman's not organic. Fri Jan 09 18:07:47 -0800 2004 112473 0 jen maiser 3 112483 That's what I said, though I can see how you got confused. I think Niman is quite sustainability-minded, but not organic... Fri Jan 09 18:17:52 -0800 2004 112482 0 ads 4 112489 Now I am reading it correctly. I totally agree with everything you said. Especially in the Bay Area -- many vendors who have lots of reasons for not being certified organic are still doing a whole lot of good for the world. In my mind, I don't consider an organic pepper grown in Chile in the middle of the winter to be sustainable because of all the energy it took to get here. I would much rather purchase something local and sustainable. (off the soapbox now) Fri Jan 09 19:43:50 -0800 2004 112483 0 jen maiser 2 112504 You are absolutely right. And I probably implied such conflation in my post. (when I said "and I assume that means organic") In fact, I' m a fanatic about this. Sustainability and local products come first, organic second. I assume that any local restaurant that is a part of this program I linked to cares about what they are selling and considers themselves responsible and sustainable are buying organic, though they may not be buying "certified" Certification and the new organic rules tend to favor large producers with lots of resources, and thus, don't always have much meaning. In fact, certified organic producers can spray pesticides, just not pesticides that hang around for long. Many non (certified) organic producers don't spray anything at all and in fact, go beyond organic. Just clarifying what I said, because I realize now how it sounded. And, as I said, I'm a fanatic, and don't want to be misunderstood. The most important thing is to develop trusting relationships with the people that supply the food you are eating or reselling. As for the link I sent, I have heard about this program from a few different sources and pretty much trust it, which is why I said I assume they are selling organic whenever possible. Thanks! Sat Jan 10 01:24:50 -0800 2004 112473 0 veebee 3 112535 It's funny you mention this, because I saw the term 'green restaurant' for the first time this week and was looking it up. It seems there are two organizations that will certify a restaurant as green, or earth friendly. There is the one that you mention that helps ethic restaurants. The little mom and pop shops that don't have the bucks to run a green restuarant. The other is the organization below. They have been in business since 1990, but really haven't grown that much. They are mainly based in San Diego, but they have a few restaurants across the country as members. I think why there might not be explicit participation in an organization like the one below is that the Bay Area is very environmentally atuned and its residents are very active in promoting practices that are green. They pass laws to promote it like banning styrofoam from fast food restuarants. There are many examples like that. There is a better commitment to recycling in the Bay Area than most ploaces. Having moved out of the area, I am shocked by the lack of environmental concern elsewhere. Link: http://www.dinegreen.com/restaurant_guide.asp Sun Jan 11 00:30:15 -0800 2004 112504 0 Stanley Stephan