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Kosher for Passover question

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  • Stephanie L. Mar 25, 2002 01:23 PM
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I try to follow the Ashkenazi tradition as best I can during Passover, which means no rice or beans (in addition to the no grains/corn/etc. thing). Since I'm pretty sure this covers soy products as well, what about soy lecithin when used as an emulsifier? Is that also considered chametz?

I know it would be easier just to buy only things certified kosher for Passover, but I don't like to get charged an arm & a leg for basic things.

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  1. Anything that is a derivative of soy is chametz.

    9 Replies
    1. re: baruch

      Er, no. *Not* chametz. Ashkenazim are not allowed to eat it, but they may possess it, they may feed it to their pets, they may use the oils for candle lighting, and if some accidentally gets into the food it's not a problem. They can even eat food that was cooked together with rice or beans (e.g. if they're guests at a Sefardi home), so long as they don't eat the rice or beans themselves. None of the above would be true if it were chametz.

      1. re: Zev Sero

        There are a lot of people who would disagree with you on your points. Not going to get into that with you here, as it depends on your beliefs and interpretations.

        But I will take issue with you saying "er...no" I am right for myself and my beliefs, and you are for yours. Offer your opinion, do not say that another's is wrong.

        thanks

        1. re: baruch

          As far as the arm and a leg cost factor (which is really such a crime), I'd suggest shopping in a very observant neighborhood. Obviously, if you happen to live in NY you might try going to Flatbush to Ave J or Kings Highway or Borough Park or Williamsburgh.

          The prices are literally a quarter of what they are in NYC. But you'd better go shopping today.

          By the way, the prohibition of chometz begins this Wednesday 3/27 at 9:30AM (if you are in the NY area).

          Bring on the matzos!!! Next year in a peaceful Jerusalem!!!!

          amy;)

          1. re: amy
            m
            Moshe Horowitz

            Thew kosher supervision agencies place an added expense on Kosher for Passover items even though they in fact qualify as such throughout the year. It is a money making business. YOU THE CONSUMER PAY IN ALL WAYS.

            It pays you to buy at Purim time, wine for Pesach as the prices are cheaper generally. If you are a jarred gefilte fish person, buy it during the year by the case again in the Flatbush, Boro Park area where they are always running sales on food.

            Check to make sure it is Kosher L'Pesach.

          2. re: baruch

            No, you are not `right for myself and my beliefs',
            this is not a matter of opinion; you made a statement
            of fact, which was incorrect. You asserted that soy
            is chametz, and it simply isn't. If someone calls a
            dog an aeroplane, it's still not going to fly, and
            those who correct such a misstatement are not simply
            offering an opinion.

            Ashkenazim may not eat soy on Pesach, but that doesn't
            make it chametz. Chametz has a specific definition,
            and specific laws, and neither applies to soy (or rice,
            beans, and other `kitniyot' which are forbidden to
            Ashkenazim on Pesach).

            1. re: baruch

              "It appears that the first intention of the Maker was to have men live on a strictly vegetarian diet. The very earliest periods of Jewish history are marked with humanitarian conduct towards the lower animal kingdom. ... It is clearly established that the ancient Hebrews knew and perhaps were the first among men to know, that animals feel and suffer pain."

              -Rabbi Simon Glazer

              Link: http://www.peta.org/feat/passover/

            2. re: Zev Sero
              m
              Moshe Horowitz

              Moroccans are very careful not to eat or it have kitniyoot around on Pesach. Same as their Ashkenazic bretheren. There is a custom that a Moroccan can perform Hatarat N'Dareem if he wants to change his family minhag and it remains changed. This only applies to Moraccans. He/she can then eat kitniyot.

              If by accident - there are to be no accidents on Pesach regarding the questionable kitneeyoot oil spilling into the food. The whole purpose of cleaning for Pesach is so that ALL questionable items are put away.

              Ashkenazeem are NOT supposed to benifit from kitneeyoot on Pesach and there again the use of kitneeyoot oil is NOT in place. Olive oil is preferable in all instances, as it is considered M'Hudar - or exacting.

              Cooking beans and rice lend flavor to whatever they are cooked with. You can't expect a person at the table to extract all of the rice and beans at the meal. You have a problem of "borer" If you are looking for loop-holes in Halacha, Pesach isn't the time to look for them. Please contact your halachic decisor (posek) before assuming that your statements are valid as they are not.

              It is preferable that an Ashkenazic person NOT EAT in a Sephardic persons house on Pesach, if in the same pot there were kitneeyoot articles of food cooked with the food that he/she would be taking part of.

              The Ashkenazic person is not in violation of eating chometz but is not following the Minhag Avot - the followings of his forefathers.

              1. re: Moshe Horowitz

                Warning: this gets a bit strong, so if you're not
                really interested in listening in on other people's
                arguments, move along folks, nothing to see here...
                ---

                I wrote:
                >> Ashkenazim are not allowed to eat it, but they may
                >> possess it, they may feed it to their pets, they
                >> may use the oils for candle lighting, and if some
                >> accidentally gets into the food it's not a problem

                To which you responded:
                > If by accident - there are to be no accidents on
                > Pesach regarding the questionable kitneeyoot oil
                > spilling into the food. The whole purpose of
                > cleaning for Pesach is so that ALL questionable
                > items are put away.
                >
                > Ashkenazeem are NOT supposed to benifit from
                > kitneeyoot on Pesach and there again the use of
                > kitneeyoot oil is NOT in place. Olive oil is
                > preferable in all instances, as it is considered
                > M'Hudar - or exacting

                All of this, begging your pardon, is absolutely wrong.
                Look it up. The Rema explicitly permits lighting lamps
                *on the table* with kitniyot oil, and says not to worry
                that some oil might get into the food, because if it
                does happen *it doesn't matter*. Ashkenazim may not
                deliberately add kitniyot oil to their food, but
                if a bit gets in by accident, *it is not a problem*,
                and they can go on eating the food, exactly as if
                nothing happened.

                As for benefiting from kitniyot, in ways that don't
                involve eating it, where on *earth* did you get the
                idea that `Ashkenazeem are NOT supposed to benifit
                from kitneeyoot on Pesach'? This is utterly and
                completely untrue; there is *no* basis for it at all,
                and no Jew, Ashkenazi or Sefardi, should have the
                slightest compunction about benefiting from kitniyot.

                And that is the *law*, Mr Horowitz, not just my
                opinion. We only keep the whole kitniyot thing
                because the Rema endorses it, and he says it's not a
                problem, so it's not a problem.

            3. re: baruch
              m
              Moshe Horowitz

              POINT OF INFORMATION: Soy is not chametz and was never chametz!!! Soy is in the the family of kitniyoot - legumes.