best places to try in NY city
re: Frank Language
All you've got to remember are these two words: Fifty-seventh Street. The Motown Cafe, the Brooklyn Diner, Le Bar Bat, Jekyll and Hyde's, the Harley-Davidson Cafe, Planet Hollywood--it makes me salivate just thinking about it.
And Little Italy...! Here's a secret tip only New Yorkers know about: look for the restaurant with the most twinkly lights! They may appear to be ``decoration,'' but are in fact--how can I phrase this?--``awards'' of ``authenticity,'' if you know what I mean, and I know that you do.
re: al pastor
Was that intended sarcastically? That's a catalogue
of overpriced tourist joints that sell atmosphere, not
Yvonne, read through the Manhattan board. It is
entirely a discussion of interesting and unusual places
to eat in Manhattan. If you don't see what you're
looking for, ask again. The more specific you make
your question, the more useful the answers will be.
In the theater district, you can find a lot of
exceptionally good restaurants, but they will be rather
expensive. If that's not a problem for you, I can
recommend a few. If you'd prefer good food at lower
prices, walk west to 9th Ave., where there's an
interesting variety at more reasonable prices. Or take
a bus down to 8th Ave. in the 20s, which has all sorts
of fun places these days.
I don't know Little Italy very well. It has nice
cafes, great pastries shops, and I can't say much about
the restaurants. Walk south a few blocks and you'll be
in Chinatown, where you can find all sorts of
Feel free to ask for details about anything in
re: Josh Mittleman
re: al pastor
re: Josh Mittleman
Goodness, attitude is high on this message board! As a
relative newcomer to this site, Yvonne, I feel like I
want to apologize for the very stereotypically NY
edginess the other responses have had. I assure you
not everyone here will be like that. I don't know what
type of food you like or what price range you're
looking for, but if you haven't been utterly scared
away by the other respondents, please know I would be
happy to offer advice. You are coming to perhaps the
best eating city in the world, and I would love to help
you experience some of the best it has to offer. Hope
to hear from you.
re: Mara G.
It's not that "attitude is high" on this board ,
Mara. Like I said in my previous post to Yvonne, it's
best not to ask vague "where should I eat" questions.
Helpful as you try to be, even you are asking her for
more info about what she likes.
I can also understand the long-time regulars'
frustrations when yet another newbie comes along and
asks that dreaded question. (BTW, this kind of
reaction is common on other message boards too. Not
that it makes it right). Jim even wrote in his "Read
this before you post" instructions not to ask such
Anyway, we live in NY, so some of us are entitled to
be edgy once in a while :-)
re: Gary Cheong
Sorry, Gary, but I have to go with Mara on this one. You say "even you are asking her for more info about what she likes" as if you'd trapped her in contradiction, but she wasn't talking about facts, she was talking about attitude, and yes, there is definitely some "high attitude" on this site. Not widespread, thank heavens, but the same few wiseacres can be relied on to stick lighted matches in the shoes of anyone naive enough to ask a too-general question in their sacred bailiwick. *Of course* people should read Jim's "Read this," *of course* they would do well to stop and think for a moment about what it is they want to know -- but does their overhasty posting really deserve the kind of stomping it routinely gets? The effect is 1) to momentarily boost the egos of the stompers (who probably see themselves trading quips with Bob and Dorothy at the Algonquin) and 2) to make it unlikely the unwary questioner will ever visit the site again. I guess it all depends whether you'd rather keep the site a private preserve for mavens or help as many people as possible discover the greatness of NY as a food city.
I too can understand the frustration you mention -- what I can't understand is the determination to take the trouble to give the hotfoot (thereby wasting time and attention even more than the original posting) rather than simply sighing and moving on.
Linguistic note: being "edgy" is not the same as being "a jerk."
re: steve d.
I'm not sure whether it really all "attitude" or just
plain crankiness at these questions. You believe it's
total attitude, and that's fine. I'm not defending
those guys but just trying to show it from another
viewpoint. Yes, I agree with you it's better to
just "sigh and move on".
Also, I'm not trying to trap Mara in a contradiction
at all. While it's great to be helpful and patient, I
wonder how long some of us (you included) will keep on
being this nice if the boards get peppered with more
and more of such vague questions. Hopefully most of
us will just sigh and move on.
re: Gary Cheong
Good point, Gary, but the appearance of such posts is an inevitable result of the increasing exposure given this website, and it seems to me the way to deal with it is to anticipate it and try to funnel these eager but unprepared would-be chowhounds into some area where they can be educated without annoying the rest of us. Perhaps a message board labeled "Where's a Good Place to Eat in NY"? (I know, I know, new boards await the coming of the millennium...) Maybe it could be divided by general area (Midtown and Village would presumably be the most in demand) and we could all post names and addresses of our faves there with perhaps a few words about ambience/price range. It would be easier and faster for the outsider than using Search (which would then be a useful followup if they wanted to know more about a particular place), and who knows, it might even be a convenient resource for us knowledgeable folk. Just an idea...
re: steve d.
Hey Steve. Lighten up. We wiseacres tend to be the ones who peek in at hotpost every time we boot up, and it's sort of fun to poke around at certain questions. (Basically two questions, as a matter of fact: 1) Where do I go for dinner in the theater district?; and 2) I'm coming to NYC--what's good?) This is, for crying out loud, New York City, and it's not as if we're telling the newbies (hee hee) to take the A train to the Natural History Museum.
Information is fine, but most of us who hang out here log onto Chowhound instead of Zagat for a reason. And I think Ms. Frank Language (among others) is really funny.
re: Al Pastor
Little did Yvonne know, when she posted her innocent
message, that it would start such debate. In fact,
it's a little ironic that here we are spinning in
controversy, and it doesn't appear that Yvonne has
chosen to return to this site. What's the message
here, I wonder?
I actually think that if it wouldn't be too much
trouble, Steve's idea of a board for NY food neophytes
is a terrific one. Many of us could have a great time
posting our personal favorites, and it would make this
site more accessible to a wider range of food lovers.
And then there would be plenty of room for the jaded
and the generous alike. Why not stop bickering and see
this as a growth opportunity? It seems the only person
who really lost out here is Yvonne, and that's a shame
and something I think most of us would not like to see
re: Mara G.
re: Mara G.
re: Al Pastor
Well, I wasn't going to bother posting any more on this thread, since Jim's pro-asshole, anti-newbie response pretty much pulled the rug out from under my feet, but I feel I have to defend Yvonne (wherever she is) against Al Pastor's all-too-typical scattershot insult. I repeat below her original posting in its entirety; if anyone can find the slightest suggestion that she was after a discussion on "the merits of Roy Rogers vs. Blimpie's" I will eat one of my many hats. It sounds to me like she just wanted a good place to eat. Guess she'll have to ask elsewhere.
"I will be visiting New York July 13-20 and staying in
the theater and then Little Italy area. Would like
suggestions on interesting and good places to eat.
Being from the middle Georgia area we are used to very good food that isn't bland."
re: steve d.
I wasn't going to bother to post AT ALL on this thread,
but I find myself aligning with the pro-assholers.
"READ THIS BEFORE YOU POST", big letters, bold type.
Jezzy Crizzy, read the damn thing! If you still don't
get it, being from the middle Georgia area where you
are used to very good food that isn't bland, we'll
forgive and move on. pat
re: Mara G.
I suspect she got the information she was looking for
by searching our archives as suggested.
We are lucky that the chowhound boards are set up so
well for searching and have such a flexible hotposts
mechanism; its also terrific to have a culture which
includes so many witty, committed and discriminating
folks. Sure, there are outburst of irritation from
time to time; it can be a real temptation which is
mostly avoided. But we're right to try to maintain
standards, and refer newbies to the archive if their
query is too broad or has been addressed again and
again - they will get much more and better information
that way, and hopefully, they will want to come back
and report what they discovered.
re: steve d.
re: steve d.
Thanks for the suggestions, everybody. Much
But I'm not sure we need a separate board for "Where to
Eat in NYC", as that's sort of the raison d'etre of the
whole darned site in the first place!
But I understand that what you guys are suggesting is a
board for inexperienced posters. Consider this, though:
1. Inexperienced folks who post questions already
answered at length (i.e. haven't done legwork to peruse
previous threads), given a new board, would merely find
themselves leaving messages nobody would read or reply
to. What's the point? You suggest leaving info there
for them to read, but...Steve...THEY DON'T **READ**
EXISTING INFO! That's the problem! Our present boards
ALREADY contain tons of helpful guidance for them! We
couldn't hope to do better!
2. Inexperienced folks who ask interesting, fresh, and/
or more specific questions are certainly welcome to do
so on these boards, and perhaps stir up good
conversation. Even if it's a novice question; we're
pretty helpful folks...if someone posts "what's a
tamale?", they'd surely receive kind explanation and
not leave many bored readers in the process. We don't
need every posting to be super-arcane and savvy...we
just don't want to be aggravated by relentless demands
for custom chow advice newbies who've not put in the
time consulting prior discussion.
One solution would be to require a verifiable email
address from each poster, so that I could delete such
queries and email the posters private guidance re:
using the site. But that would require registration-to-
post, which would cut down drastically on traffic
So I just post The Usual Plea once in a while and hope
newbies see it. Redundant though they are, we don't get
more than a few such postings per week. And for every
few upper west side brunchers who come stumbling in, we
also pull in a Wonki or Jen.
Meanwhile, bear in mind that this site is more a
community than an Ask The Experts service. That being
the case, the errant wisecrack is entirely appropriate.
My mission is to provide a hangout for hardcore hounds
(and open-minded hound wannabes), period. We're
generous to newbies who are considerate enough to check
out site culture before posting, but this community has
no responsibility whatsoever to steer every tourist to
the Olive Garden nearest their motel...or even to take
such requests seriously. If they'd read through the
site, they'd find a world beyond Olive Garden. If
they're too busy to read...well, we're probably too
busy to advise!
Wisecracks and irreverence are GOOD. These boards are
way too serious and polite. I'd prefer more
re: your comment that it's unlikely that unwary
questioners will ever visit the site again...this is
the case regardless of peoples' response. More than
half the newbie questioners showered with advice have
never been heard from again. I suspect most don't even
return to check replies.
Those whose postings demonstrate at least a vague
recognition of what the site's about--i.e. they've been
reading along at least to some degree--deserve serious
reply regardless of the naivete of their questions. But
people who've blown in (usually via search engine
inquiries for "midtown", "brunch", etc) and ask
questions contrary to the chowhound spirit and who've
clearly browsed neither the message boards nor anything
else, generally are unlikely to have any future
attraction to the site, come what may. They're like
quasi-spammers, so we may as well amuse ourselves.
re: Jim Leff
re: Gary Cheong
Gary, the Posting Guidelines are about as in-your-face as we could possibly make anything...and yet few seem to read 'em. The problem, once again, is failure to read, failure to feel around the site, failure to give the slightest regard to prevailing culture on the site. The solution isn't to offer 'em MORE stuff to skip reading!
It's an unsolvable problem, given our ever-increasing audience. Even if we made a greater and greater percentage of posters aware of posting etiquette, we'll still have a constant or increasing number of inappropriate postings....because 2% of an audience of 100,000 amounts to more actual fringey people than 10% of an audience of 1000. Talk to Xeno...
Meantime, just ignore stuff! C'mon...you're forced to disregard like 99% of content when surfing the Internet, but there's a MUCH better signal-to-noise ratio here. I'm sure we can all put up with the occasional boring message...as well as the occasional wise ass reply.
Yvonne -- we really are a helpful bunch here. It's
just like Josh said in his post -- READ thru many of
the posts on this board, get some ideas, and then ask
some specific questions rather than an open-ended
question like "what interesting places should I eat
at?". How would we know what your likes and dislikes
are? You'll get "suggestions" like Tad's, Sbarro's
and Olive Garden from the regulars who are a wee bit
tired of seeing the same old queries over and over
> Being from the middle Georgia area we are used to
> very good food that isn't bland.
Like us New Yorkers (who happen to live in this
country's food capital) are not ???
Don't listen to those knuckleheads, Yvonne. As Gary and Josh said, Al and Frank are just bored by the same old questions being asked over and over.
As I told a new message poster last week, there are tens of thousands of messages on these boards, many of them pertaining to your situation. All the collected wisdom contained therein was provided on a volunteer basis by very smart, savvy eaters. So some of them get annoyed when a new face pops up and asks for custom advice on the same old topics, seemingly ignoring the vast storehouse of knowledge they've painstakingly built up here.
This place is about give and take, and the givers have limited time/patience. So we do ask people to poke around a bit before piping up...though people with new, timely, or unusual concerns are warmly invited to post anytime. Also, y'all (I'm talking over your head to the populace at large), if you get good advice here, please give back with reports of your eating experiences, ok? Post finds as well as queries, please!
Oh, Yvonne....one quick bit of advice: forget about eating in Little Italy (unless you want Malaysian). It's a touristy nightmare.
also forget all the tourist traps in and near the
theatre district....if it even remotely looks like a
crowd....search farther afield...
my suggestion for gastronomicallt
adventurous-on-a-budget these days is to stroll up and
down 9th ave(1 block west-facing new jersey)from where
you'll probably be staying...
you can try some wonderful fast food, not so
wonderfully served slow food, some just tasty delites
...it all depends on what mood hits you...
the boundaries (loose) are about 42 st street south to
about 57 st north...there's turkish,mideastern, true
italian, great burgers, vietnamese(I think that's on 44
off 8th Ave tho)....but remember, we're a safe city
now...so the stroll will be satisfying AND safe....and,
your stomach will thank you....