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Munich, high end, one more time

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I know I've asked before, but I cannot find the thread...Looking for something not seafood-centric and not necessarily Bavarian or German. Maybe Landersdorfer & Innehofer? Somehow Tantris doesn't interest me. How's Bistro Terrine? Any other suggestions? Marc?

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  1. Difficult to answer: what are you looking for? High-end cuisine, unique experience, ambiance? For a single diner, communal table or to impress a date? Age-range?

    Nevertheless I try some answers:

    Landersdorfer gets excellent critics. So gets Kleinschmidtz, Fraunhoferstraße 13. Both seem to be ambitious to get their first Michelin star. I have never been though.

    Bistro Terrine I last visited 2 years ago and thought not worth at all. But meanwhile the owner of the location (who owns Tantris as well) handed it over to his son who did some facelifting and hired a new chef. Critics are o.k. so far, but possibly critics paid for.

    Another choice might be Le Foubourg at Kirchenstraße or Les Cuisiniers in Reitmoorstrasse.

    All these are more or less French with respect to food and seating. (small, relatively narrow).

    High-end certainly is Königshof with the additional advantage of the fancy location.

    As “allrounders” I could recommend Gandl, St. Anna Platz, Rue des Halles, Steinstraße, Brenners at Maximilianshoefe and Boettner at Platz.

    Another experience is Broeding, Schulstraße: they only have a single 5 course menu that changes daily, fish only one day of the week (I suppose Friday), www.broeding.de.

    Among the special restaurants for the more younger (but no age limit at all!) crowd I could name Nektar (www.nectar.de, more a club) Ess9 at Hans Sachs Straße and Barysphär, Tumblingerstraße.

    There are lots of others, so don’t hesitate to mail for more specific hints.

    2 Replies
    1. re: Marc

      I had lunch at the Königshof today (22nd May 2007).

      The location is pleasant, not wonderful -- a view on a realtively busy square with trolleys and MacDonalds. Inside, very classic high end restaurant, everything says luxury.

      I had the 42€ business lunch menu. Most remarkable were the calf kidneys, very sweet in taste, perfectly cooked, with some Pfifferlinge (Girolles more than Chanterelle) and a few leaves of Spinach. A classic but delicious veal juice with French mustard à l’ancienne offered a perfect balance.

      As a first course, unsurprising but flawless asparagus with hollandaise are made more interesting with tiny pieces of a very tasty, very onctuous smoked salmon. As dessert, a few sadly marinated strawberries were served with a delicious strawberry sorbet and a good Milchbutter, some drops of vanilla cream and chocolate serving as decoration.

      A glass of classic Riesling was suggested for 5€. Coffee and water were included in the price.

      Pleasant service, very available, but the room was far from full.

      Bread and butter are first rate – I guess that’s very noteworthy.

      On the whole, a pleasant address, extremely fancy but quite unexciting. Perfect for business meals and grandmothers' birthday, assuming they're no food lover.

      1. re: Marc

        In terms of French bistrots, I found the two in Rablstrasse much better than Le Faubourg or les Cuisinier or Les Halles -- L'atelier is a tad more gastro, le bousquerey a tad more bistrot, but both offer very enjoyable, classic French food, whereas I found the other three quite dull.

      2. Ate at Terrine yesterday, thought it very good. In any case, it blew the meal we had at Acquarello the night before clear out of the water, and was easily as good as Koenigshof, where we ate last summer. Might be worth a second chance!

        1. I am curious about people's experiences with Acquarello. We recently had the 5 course tasting menu but I have to say that, apart from the fantastic pasta dish, I was somewhat disappointed.

          1) amuse: a sashimi "praline" and potato soup. This was basically a piece of sashimi with some sesame seeds, a sprig of parsley and some sort of mayonaisse sauce in a spoon, accompanied by a potato puree soup in an espresso glass. I hesitate to name the fish because, while the waiter declared it to be salmon, I could swear it was tuna. Overall, not that exciting in any case.

          2) "tuna-aubergine mille feulle". Basically a napoleon made of 4 potato chips, 4 pieces of sashimi and a mayonnaise-type sauce flavored with smoked eggplant. Some daubs of balsamic vinegar on the plate. The eggplant/tuna combination didn't really make something more than the sum of its parts and frankly at this price level this is two courses already that I could easily have come up with at home. Oh, there was a sprig of parsley on top of this one too.

          So a) what's up with the parsley sprigs in this day and age? and b) maybe not a good idea to have two consecutive courses that include a mayo sauce, potatoes, sashimi and a sprig of parsley?

          3) Pasta stuffed with (mascarpone and spinach?) with a beautiful swirl of green cream sauce. This was exceptional, very delicate. Well beyond the reach of a mere mortal.

          4) palate cleanser: lemon sorbet with prosecco gelee. The prosecco gelee was tasty, the sorbet was nice but nothing unusual.

          5) Main course: dorade with orange-braised fennel. Nice dish, though the dorade was to my taste a little overcooked. Good crispy skin though. Overall tasty and the fennel was nicely done, but then braised fennel is not particularly complicated. Orange and fennel is a good but fairly well-known combination. This dish needed some extra component, something to make it stand out as a main course.

          6) pre-dessert: panna cotta, flavored with some sort of dark berry that I've completely forgotten. I could have done without it.

          7) Dessert. Okay this one I just hated. It was basically a giant "caipirinha" glass with the botton layer what tasted like apple pie filling, middle layer a cinnamon ice cream, and top layer what was called a (caramel?) foam but was more like whipped cream. We were instructed to put our spoon all the way down to get the three tastes, but basically this was a glorified Dairy Queen blizzard. Also, relative to the size of the previous courses, this was just out of scale huge and clunky, like they were trying to make sure you wouldn't complain about being hungry afterwards. How did this end up on the menu of such a restaurant? Oh, it had mandoline-thin slices of dried apple on top.

          I realize Italian cuisine has to be judged by different standards -- it relies more on the quality of the ingredients than on complicated preparations -- but in this case there was just nothing all that interesting in presentation or execution. No real depth of flavor, but conversely nothing (apart, again, from the pasta course) particularly fine or subtle either.

          I just didn't get it. I would be happy to go back for a pasta dish, order a main course, and skip dessert entirely. I would not go back for a tasting menu.

          I'm curious to hear what others have ordered there, or if you think I am judging by the wrong standards. I would have been happier with fewer intermezzi but a little bit more interesting stuff on the plate for the "announced" courses. Or else, more of a show of technique. What am I missing here?

          3 Replies
          1. re: Behemoth

            I had lunch at Acquarello yesterday and found it rather disappointing, though not unpleasant. I posted a detailed review there:

            http://julotlespinceaux.blogspot.com/...

            1. re: souphie

              Yes that was exactly my impression. Good enough food, but nowhere near as good as what I would expect from a Michelin starred place, especially at that price level. Have you tried Acetaia? I would be interested in comparing the two.

              1. re: Behemoth

                Would be interested too, but have not yet. Meanwhile, I had the best two meals I had in Germany so far at Winkler's and at Christian Grainer's in Kirchdorf. Grainer is generous and very precise, Winkler is a master of the kind of nouvelle cuisine that I like, light and which you are happy to have eaten rather than sorry you could not eat more.

                More detailed reviews on my blog: julotlespinceaux.blogspot.com

          2. I've been curious about Tantris http://www.tantris.de

            Has anyone been? What do you think of it? What's the crowd like and is it appropriate for a company dinner?

            1 Reply
            1. re: crunchy

              It is an amazing place, though the food itself I found hardly exciting and the waiting staff made me wait way too much. I posted a detailed review there:

              http://julotlespinceaux.blogspot.com/...

              All in all, I would say the food was better at Königshof, but the place is much less exciting.

            2. We enjoyed it a lot. So far the best restaurant meal I've had in Munich (at that level) and service was flawless. The crowd is probably creative field older crowd plus the usual lawyers and politicians. It would be appropriate for a company dinner so long as the price isn't an issue.

              1. Can anyone give me an impression of any of the following places?

                a) Halali: do they actually have wild game in season, and is it very good?
                b) Le Sud: I'd like a nice non-fancy but good neighborhod french option.
                c) Dallmayr for dinner (not lunch): I've heard good things lately.
                d) Broeding: They have a great reputation as wine importers, would like to know if their typical tageskarte is any good.

                2 Replies
                1. re: Behemoth

                  Halali does have wild game in season, and was quite nice when I went in the late fall/early Christmas season. I found the restaurant a bit fusty with an older crowd, which is not surprising, but the food was not heavy or old-fashioned at all.

                  Le Sud was disappointing. We never went back.

                  BTW, Marc, I ended up going to Kleinschmidtz and really liked it. They were trying really hard, cappuccinos and foams, etc, but it was all really tasty and somehow not pretentious, most likely due to the friendly and relaxed service.

                  1. re: desylicious

                    Glad you enjoyed Kleinschmidtz, seems I have to go some day!
                    They added a new feature: Sunday night candellight with jazz:
                    http://www.kleinschmidtz.de/jazz_and_...

                    BTW: no big story, but went to the recently relocated (Kirchenstraße 61) St. Laurent just to to have a creme brûlée - no reason to go back at all.

                2. Recent nice dinner at Retter's on the Viktualienmarkt. The (small!) menu is limited to whatever the chef finds at the market that day, but luckily you can look up the menu daily on their website to see if it is something you'd like to eat. Very nice service when we were there, the food was great (local fall lamb, mushrooms etc all very fresh tasting) and reasonable prices. Another big draw is that, since it is attached to a wine store, very nice suggested (Austrian focused) wine pairings.

                  1 Reply
                  1. re: Behemoth

                    Nick Lander (isn't he Jancis Robinson's husband?) in the Financial Times on Munich dining:

                    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/3ae8b98a-d0...
                    In brief --
                    Tantris: great food, long waiting times
                    Ederer: mediocre food, unfriendly service. Hmm, have I ever heard anything good about this place? It seems like it has so much potential.

                    Bizarre quote of the day:

                    "Schumann’s, one of the few remaining coffee houses since the arrival of Starbuck’s and the local San Francisco Coffee House"

                    In other news, my current two favorite places in town are Terrine, and Barestovino. Would love to hear other opinions or suggestions.

                    Also, if you "had" to spend some cash on a meal or drinks at Bayerischer Hof, what would you do?

                  2. Last week we visited praised Les Cuisiniers – Reitmoorstraße. It was o.k., dinner for two with two glasses of Champaign and one Bottle of wine (my wine is usually on the –very- reasonable side, so does not unnecessarily increase the bill) was Euro 130.-. More or less Munich standard.
                    Just to compare went yesterday to Tantris: more or less the same was Euro 200.-. But a difference of light-years with respect to quality, service and ambiance.
                    And even if you compare Tantris (**) with Residence (***) the Michelin rating seems ridiculous: Tantris is the –much- higher league.
                    Consequence: go go go! (to Tantris, nowhere else)

                    2 Replies
                    1. re: Marc

                      I should add for anyone considering a visit, Tantris on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday is a good deal -- the 5-course tasting menu with some nicely chosen wines for 150 euro. Temptation to drink way too much though. Saturday lunch is also great, but one shouldn't plan on doing too much afterwards. :-)

                      1. re: Marc

                        I beg to differ. Winkler does, in my experience and opinion, considerably better and more impressive food than Haas. To me, the Michelin rating is absolutely right: Tantris is a (very) good place, fun to stay and decent to eat (and great affordable wines) while Winkler is a major cook whose each course is a culinary statement (with awfully expensive wines but quite affordable food). Now that I am back in Paris I would still fly just for a Winkler meal. Food at tantris is very fine-tuned but also very industrialised and without risk-taking.

                      2. Anyone has been at G-Munich?

                        1. The Cocoon in the Lehel, nearby the St. Anna Sq. (Gandl's) is very worthwhile to visit!

                          http://www.cocoon-muenchen.de/

                          Lushan

                          1. I don't know if this place is high-end, but I saw a place called Dukatz in the NYT. The setting looks very appealing, in the LIteraturhaus, but can anyone vouch for the food there?

                            1. I don't know if this place is high-end, but I saw a place called Dukatz in the NYT list of Munich restaurants. The setting looks very appealing, in the LIteraturhaus, but can anyone vouch for the food there?

                              http://travel.nytimes.com/travel/guid...

                              1 Reply
                              1. re: yumyumyogi

                                The Dukatz crew moved to Schäfflerhof - 3 minutes walk - and new crew (Gast, Zoozies and some others) moved in.
                                I made a reservation for a "table on the window" and they reserved one on the side of the windows but where the wall between the windows was. When I refused to sit there the maitre d´said "sorry" and turned to another party ond offerd them "I just got an available table".
                                They will never earn a dime from me!
                                (general: way too expensive for the food, people watching can be nice)