265476 Thu Feb 17 23:25:22 -0800 2005 17 26 International 0 1401153 We'll be in Florence & Rome the end of March. Where do you recommend we go for the best pizza? Thu Feb 17 23:25:22 -0800 2005 0 Eva 1 1401165 There is no good pizza north of Naples. Eat Roman and Florentine specialties. Fri Feb 18 08:36:01 -0800 2005 1401153 0 Fred Stare 2 1401166 The best pizza we have ever had is at Da Baffeta in Rome. Fri Feb 18 08:45:11 -0800 2005 1401165 0 ellyb 3 1401190 But have you ever had pizza in Naples? Da Baffeto in Via Governo Vecchio behind piazza Novona in Rome is very good for Roman style pizza--very thin, crispy, minimal toppings. It may seem like the best pizza you have had until you eat it in Naples. In my opinion Roman pizza pales in comparison to the better pizze in Naples such as at Di Matteo, Da Michele or Trianon. Pizza in Naples is thicker, very tender bordering on soagy, with minimal toppings and most places only serve Marinara (no cheese) or Margherita (tomato, basil, fior di latte mozzarella). So overall, I agree with the poster that said that pizza is not worth having outside of Naples, although pizza in Rome is decent but different. Fri Feb 18 18:52:14 -0800 2005 1401166 0 Javier T 2 1401189 That is a little harsh isn't it? Rome and Florence are rather large cities, I am sure SOMEONE there knows how to cook a pizza Napels style. I would agree with you in the stone ages when there were no means of transporting raw ingredients from one region to another, but come on. In today's business world I can have the same tomatoes that they use in Naples tomorrow afternoon. That isn't to say Naples doesn't have many many more great pizza places than Rome or Florence but I highly doubt all pizza in Rome and Florence sucks. Fri Feb 18 18:40:52 -0800 2005 1401165 0 Ben 3 1401192 My take on this (as a part-time resident of the pizza zone) is that it doesn't do a lot of good to impose Italian regional snobbery on visiting foreigners who may not be hitting every region. My friends in Sicily (which prides itself on having the second best pizza after Napoli) claim that they would never eat pizza in the north. (Rome being part of the North for these purposes. Poor Rome can never catch a break: to the secessionist Lega, it's the deep south, to pizza fanatics, it's the north). And it's true, I've had the best pizzas ever in Napoli, and awfully good pie in Sicilia. But, Romans go out for pizza too. And they enjoy it. If you are going out on a weekend evening with Roman friends, it's at least as likely that you'll stop for a pizza before hitting the discoteche as that you'll sit down to a "traditional" roman specialty like carbonara or trippa. Italians love going out for pizza, because they consider it a "light" meal, it's affordable, it's family friendly, and it's something they don't make at home often. (By contrast, a lot of Italians think eating pasta out often is a waste of time and money b/c their mom, grandma, aunt, boyfriend make it better.) So it's not like pizza is some exotic foreign tradition that the romans just don't really grasp. Moreover, with youth unemployment pushing 70% in Napoli and other parts of the Mezzogiorno not far behind, the migration to the North that has been going on for the last 60 years is far from over. You can be sure that there's more than one pizzaiolo who has made his way to Rome, or Firenze for that matter. In fact, there's not a town of any size in the "North" where you won't find Napolitani and Siciliani running restaurants and turning out often highly palatable versions of their "native" cuisine. And the pizza in other Italian cities still beats 99.9% of the crap that's served up stateside (DiFara excepted), as the ingredients are still way better (won't find much "pizza cheese" there) and it's not that hard to track down a forno al legno almost anywhere in Italy. So, in sum, don't eat pizza every night to the exclusion of regional specialties. BUT enjoy it in good conscience. It will be a great treat compared to whatever you're used to. Unfortunately, on the practical, non-soapbox level, the best place I know in Rome for a pizza you need a car to get to. But I'll scratch my memory a little. Fri Feb 18 19:39:26 -0800 2005 1401189 0 Elaine (Snutteplutten) 4 1401195 The issue with eating pizza in Firenze and Rome is that the style changes. In Napoli you will be hard pressed to find with various toppings whereas in other cities, the ubiquitous quattro stagioni, capriciosa, etc. are found. In my experience, pizza north of Napoli is much thinner, crisper, still light on the cheese, but has more toppings. It is just a style I am not that fond of. Fri Feb 18 20:23:47 -0800 2005 1401192 0 Javier T 5 1401200 Don't disagree that it's different in Napoli - just have a hard time with counseling those who may not get to Napoli not to eat pizza in Roma when it's likely to be better than wherever they're from. It's like telling people not to eat Chinese food until they can afford to travel to Shanghai. Plus, I'm not anti-topping. My favorite pie is rucola, mozz di bufala, and parmagiano, and if a place has good locally produced salsiccia, I'm all for a sausage pie. The austerity of the temples of Napolitana pizza is a beautiful thing of purity, but I like a little variety too. Fri Feb 18 21:27:34 -0800 2005 1401195 0 Elaine(Snutteplutten) 6 1401218 I couldn't agree more. Pizza is a wonderful alternative in Italy when you're looking for lighter fare in the evening, particularly on a Sunday night. One caution: the best pizzerias are not open until evening since they're spending a good part of the day stoking the oven. Moreover, true Italian pizza found in the good pizzerias is a revelation to most travelers from anywhere else. Upon our return from our initial trip to Italy my wife refused to return to any of our usual haunts and immediately bought bricks for our own oven in an attempt to recreate the experience (setting off the smoke alarm numerous times in the process). Sure the pizza in Naples is the gold standard, but telling people not to order pizza in Italy unless you're going to Naples is like telling people to avoid truffles in France unless you're going to be in the Dordogne in February. Sat Feb 19 13:42:20 -0800 2005 1401200 0 jbw 7 1401224 I'm with Elaine and jbw on this debate. Though it may not measure up to Neapolitan pizza in every respect, Roman pizza is terrific by any standard. (And Neapolitan pizza is not always perfect - I had lousy, soggy pizza on my last visit to Brandi, the supposed inventor of pizza margherita). My favorites in Rome are Baffetto (Monte Carlo, just around the corner is serviceable if Baffetto is too packed), and Da Ivo (via san Francesco in Ripa) in Trastevere. On my last visit Roman friends took me to a good place just off piazza Fiume, but I can't rememember the name. Elaine, you have piqued my curiosity - what's the place that requires a car? Sat Feb 19 18:42:59 -0800 2005 1401218 0 Jeremy M 8 1401229 Pizzeria Brandi has been horrid for the last 10-15 years. It is a total tourist trap. Pleanty of tourist trap pizzerias in Rome too. Javier T is on the money with recommending Da Michele and Trianon in Naples. Comparing Neapolitan pizza to Roman pizza or any other pizza is like comparing apples to oranges or not too different than comparing NY style pizza to Chicago pizza. Both can be very good in their own right, yet they are completely different animals. The only issue I have with those who try pizza North of Naples but have never tried pizza in Naples is that they then think that all Italian pizza is super thin and crispy. Therefore, it makes it very hard for me to educate my customers about the fact that the pizza we do is Neapolitan and therefore different from what they have had in the past in Italy. Sat Feb 19 20:13:24 -0800 2005 1401224 0 Victoria Libin 8 1401244 It's called Vizi & Stravizi, there may be a way to get there by public transport - we went by car and it seemed to be a totally residential area. I attach a link to their website. N.B. They claim to serve pizza napoletana, and the guy (charming) is from Napoli, but the pizza is creative, not napoletana i.e., one of his things is a ricotta filled edge of the crust (sounds Pizza Hut-ish but really yummy). Also good dessert pizzas, again not a "classic" but really good. Nice garden. Link: http://www.vizistravizi.com/ristorante.html Sun Feb 20 10:21:36 -0800 2005 1401224 0 Elaine(Snutteplutten) 9 1401273 Thank you for posting this. I'll be driving down from southern Tuscany and staying between Fiumicino and Ostia (Isola Sacra) for a couple of nights before flying out in May, and I was already beginning to think about what to do for supper on Saturday and Sunday. Mon Feb 21 11:03:29 -0800 2005 1401244 0 bacchante 10 1401281 Think also about Da Mastino in Fregene. It's an unprepossessing looking place right on the beach - by day they run it as a stabilmento balneare - with superb fresh seafood. It's a big favorite with Romans, but unfortnuately pricier than the look of it would suggest. Mon Feb 21 15:07:21 -0800 2005 1401273 0 Jeremy M 11 1401300 Thanks for the rec. Since I'll be there a couple of nights, I'll check them both out. Tue Feb 22 09:51:04 -0800 2005 1401281 0 bacchante 12 1401315 If you have a couple of nights and are with car, you should really think about heading over to Frascati/Grotaferrata. It's a pretty easy drive from the airport. You can take the grande raccordo annulare and follow the signs for Frascati. Wonderful local wine and some terrific restaurants - Cacciani, Zaraza, Sapori di Casa in Frascati and Il Fico Vecchio and Il Tuscolo in Grotaferrata, where there's also a place that gets a great write-up in the Slow Food guide. (I haven't tried that one, but friends who live in Grotaferrata say it's excellent, though service is sometimes slow). Wed Feb 23 00:08:14 -0800 2005 1401300 0 Jeremy M 6 1401230 I agree that on average pizza in just about any place in Italy is better than pizza in just about any place in the U.S. That said, there is a rebirth of top quality pizza going on all over the U.S. Seattle alone boasts two excellent Neapolitan pizzerie called Via Tribunali and Tutta Bella. Pizzeria Bianco in Arizona, Fresca in NYC, Naples 45 in NYC and a whole bunch of others (including my own establishment) are trying their hardest to do pizza in a true Neapolitan fashion from double zero flour to wood burning ovens, to training their pizzaioli in Naples, and in fact are much better than the favored pizzerias you will find North of Rome. Sat Feb 19 20:19:23 -0800 2005 1401200 0 Victoria Libin 1 1401172 Locals encouraged me to go to Pizzaria Remo in Testaccio. Take the Metro to Piramide, walk west on via Marmorata past Volpetti's (best food store in Rome) and walk left into the heart of Testaccio. Ask anyone for directions because its a local institution. Best pizza ever. Fri Feb 18 10:43:19 -0800 2005 1401153 0 Dale