263690 Thu Dec 11 11:23:27 -0800 2003 29 26 International 0 1392717 In about 2 ½ weeks I’m off to Thailand for my honeymoon and I DESPERATELY need some tips. We’re spending 5 nights at the Century Park Hotel (near Siam Square and Victory Monument). Then we’re off to Phuket to stay at the Meridien for 8 nights on the Kata Noi beach (hopefully far enough from Patong that it’s not too touristy, not that the Meridien is UN-touristy, but we plan to amble and perambulate inland). I’ve already culled through the board and collected everything I found on Bangkok and Phuket. Now, I’ve got some specific questions: -I think they’re having something at the Century Park for New Year’s Eve. Their Italian restaurant, “Roberto” is having a buffet. They’re having a la carte dining at the “Café on the Park” and the New Year’s Eve countdown is in their bar. Is this worth it? Where is the best place to ring in the New Year in Bangkok? Since we’re staying at the Century Park, if we go to a hotel along the Chao Phraya will we have a 1 hour drunken cab ride through traffic back to our hotel at the end of the night? -What about Sala Rim Naam in the Oriental? Should I go? -What about other kinds of cuisine? Can I score some great French or Italian anywhere? What about Portugese? -What in general is good in our area chow-wise? I need street food. I’ve got my Hep-A vaccine and I plan to use it. Nothing is safe from my jaws, just point me in the right direction. Also, are there any good mid-range restaurants in my area? Is there anything I should avoid in my area? -Where’s the MBK food court? -We’re also close to the skytrain (which seems to be the recommended way to beat the traffic). What neighborhoods are worth exploring near some of the other stops on the train? -As for Phuket, is my instinct correct in assuming that the Meridien is non-chowish? Or perhaps they’re one of those hotels where the restaurant(s) is actually amazing? What about Baan Rim Pa? Is it as good as it seems? Are there any must-eats in Patong? Or cheap food in Kata Noi? What about excursions to the islands for chow? Thanks in advance!!! Thu Dec 11 11:23:27 -0800 2003 0 joypirate 1 1392730 Don't know where you're coming from, but it really was my experience that, in Thailand, western food was a constant disappointment. Either you pay a ton for just ok to pretty good food in a hotel, or you can eat thai food, where finding a bad meal is tough. Remeber that most Thais, to generalize a bit, are not very advenerous eaters, and there is not a huge domestic market for upscale foreign dining. Just my two cents, but assuming you're from somewhere with fairly decent options for french and italian, I'd skip it in Thailand. However, if you're into Indian food, Rang Mahal at the Rembrandt Hotel was delicious (at least a few years back when I was there) with a spectacular view of the city. Very upscale, and very good (also very cheap by western standards.) The Chinese restaurant in the Oriental is also pretty impressive for dim sum (never been for dinner) for a very luxurious break from thai food. In general, though, you'll be happiest and eat the best if you generally eat thai food. Thu Dec 11 16:16:14 -0800 2003 1392717 0 Micah 2 1392752 Rang Mahal is a very good choice for upscale Indian, with traditional thali-style meals (4/5 small dishes of veggies/meat) with rice/naan for around $15US. Also, I would seek out dim sum-I believe that the chinese restaurant in the Rembrandt is also quite good, and for absolutely top-notch, but quite expensive, try the Chinese restaurant at the Oriental. Fri Dec 12 06:58:26 -0800 2003 1392730 0 Scuba Steve 1 1392731 The Century Park is close to Victory Monument, quite a ways north of Siam Square. But, everything is accessible, cheaply, by meter taxi. You can also walk just a bit to the Skytrain, just south of Victory Monument. Usually, the hotels will have a "New Years Gala" that has been included in your December 31st night's rate. If you like what you see, it might be better to stay off the streets. MBK's foodcourt is on the 6th floor, north end (same end as "National Stadium" Skytrain platform). Besides, you'll have to hit MBK for shopping; might as well eat! Although it's not Bangkok's "best" offerings, MBK has one of the largest selections and is a good introduction. Chua Kim Heng, 81-83 Pattanakarn Rd, Suan Luan (not far from your hotel), is good Chinese featuring roast (not "Peking") duck. Kaiton, C/O Soi 30 Petchaburi Rd. (even nearer), offers the best khao mun kai (chicken with rice) around. Although it's an open restaurant, it's definitely "street style" khao mun kai and very "local". Weekdays, along Convent Rd, south of Silom Rd, there's many street carts catering to the local office workers. Another place, popular with Thais, is MK Suki. There are many locations throughout Bangkok(there's 2 in MBK alone!). If you are in Bangkok during the weekend, you have to head north to Chatuchak Weekend Market. foodfirst should soon pop in with some good international picks. Link: http://www.pbase.com/stupid_american/food Thu Dec 11 16:51:14 -0800 2003 1392717 0 Curt 2 1392732 Just a couple more! Riverside Bangkok,#3, at the link below, is a great diner cruise. The food is quite good (cooked to order), and the views are great! Yok Yor Marina, #12, same link, has a good Thai/Chinese, and a great show, in their restaurant, on shore. Link: http://bangkok.thailandtoday.com/food/03_g03_chaophraya.html Thu Dec 11 16:53:22 -0800 2003 1392731 0 Curt 1 1392735 If you're in Thailand, then I'd stick to Thai. However, after two weeks in Bangkok, and with a weakening stomach, I found that the Italian rest. at the Shangri-La in Bangkok (next to the Skytrain and the Oriental, and a nice view of the river) fit the bill. They had great pizzas too. Thu Dec 11 17:19:58 -0800 2003 1392717 0 Mari 1 1392741 Bangkok is an excellent place to spend New Year's Eve, but don't spend it in your hotel. The city is one huge celebration that night so get out and enjoy it and get a feel for how Thais celebrate. I would head to the river for the fireworks at midnight (several sets of fireworks, sponsored by various hotels and the city). I've spent a couple NY Eve's in Bangkok like this: book a table at the Gallery Cafe on Charoen Khrung (New Road) for a latish dinner. Excellent (if a bit sweet, for some dishes) Thai food in a small, stylish restaurant. Linger until about 11 and then stroll down to the river to watch the fireworks. There will be lots and lots of people out (keep a watch on yr wallet). An excellent spot is at the water taxi jetty by the Shangri-la (this is right at the end of the BTS), or from the BTS platform or the nearby bridge, which is jam-packed with pple on NY Eve. As an alternative, if you want to attend a hotel gala, book at the Shangri-la, the Marriott Riverside, the Oriental, or the Peninsula. All the restaurants in the riverside hotels have something going on for NY Eve, at various prices (from expensive to exceedingly expensive), the advantage is that you're guaranteed a ringside seat for fireworks. Or you might call ahead to to Shangri-la et al to inquire about their dinner river cruises. The food is OK, not fabulous but not bad, the good thing is you're out there at midnight watching it all from a boat. Best not to wait till you arrive as everything will be booked out. Absolutely DO NOT take a taxi ANYWHERE on New Year's Eve, from about 4 o'clock onwards. You'll waste hours sitting in traffic. The BTS is close to your hotel, and very easy to use, will get you most places you want to go, so take advantage. This applies other times as well. Chow-wise, I've made recommendations on intl food and Thai food on this board, and this one bears repeating: Khanom Chine on the first floor of MBK (you don't need to walk through the whole shopping center to get there, bec it's got a streetside) for khanom jeen and a fine, fiery carrot som tam and grilled pork salad. "Industrial chic" is the atmosphere but the food is great and authentic. Khanom jeen is a Thai dish not seen much outside Thailand and IMO it's worth seeking out. Don't forget to heap on the condiments/veggies, self-serve at a "bar" in the middle of the restaurant. MBK food court is convenient as a first look-see, but if you're game just head right out to the streets. I've posted about alot of weekday lunchtime food markets (Soi Tonson, Dalat Aw Taw Kaw, on Soi Sala Daeng etc), these are worth visiting for the sheer variety at your fingertips. And if you're heading to Chatuchak by all means make a lengthy, filling stop for chow at Dalat Aw Taw Kaw across the street. You can really go wild at this place, which is what I plan to do when I'm in Bangkok this weekend. I posted on this earlier in some detail, so check it out. In general I agree with other posters about western food in Bangkok --- not worth it in most cases. An exception is Bella Napoli on Sukhumvit Soi 33 (or 31, can't quite remember). Excellent Naples-style pizza (thin crust) from the wood-fired oven and a seafood pasta baked in a covered (with dough) clay dish to die for. Skip the appetizers, nothing great. The gelato is fantastic, housemade. Biscotti in the Regent does a pretty good job with Italian, more upscale if you want a nicer atmosphere, and they have an extensive wine list, and quite a few "value" Italian wines. Dinner for two with a bottle of wine, depending on what you order, will run U$50-80. But if it's pizza you're after, Bella Napoli for sure. Lebanese: Al Ferdoss near Soi Nana. Walking up Sukhumvit lower-to-higher soi numbers, pass Soi Nana (major intersection) and take your first left. Al Ferdoss will be a few steps up on your right. Fresh Iraqi nan bread right out of the oven, pretty hard to beat. The foul, the baba ganouj, tabouleh, all good. Skip the mixed grill and get the Iraqi skewers, if you eat lamb. Really nicely spiced, goes great with the bread. If you really want to chow in Phuket you'll want to head into town. There's some interesting old architecture and more and more good shopping, small "eclectic" shops in converted old shophouses, recently, so worth an afternoon or two (Phuket is also famous for its khanom jeen). Thu Dec 11 21:59:26 -0800 2003 1392717 0 foodfirst 2 1392823 Excellent tips everyone! Thanks so much. I'll begin booking a river cruise for New Year's Eve evening - probably the Riverside Bangkok one recommended if I can somehow cross that language barrier to make the reservation. Thanks for the map Curt, that's a lot better map that what I've seen around and it puts things into perspective nicely. One more question, does anyone know how far the ASIA AIRPORT HOTEL (99 2 Moo 8 Phaholyothin RoadLamlukka Pahumthance) is from this garlic fried chicken near the Polo Club? Mon Dec 15 10:52:46 -0800 2003 1392741 0 joypirate 3 1392828 You could have someone from your hotel book it. But, there are some English speakers at Riverside Bangkok. Besides having the only on board kitchen, the boat's so big you don't sense that you are moving. It's very near your hotel, straight out Ratchawithi Rd., over the Krung Thon bridge. You'll see it, to the south, from the bridge. When the driver blows right past it, don't panic; he will have to make 3 rights, to turn left! Have a great time! Image: http://home.pacbell.net/dagravy/B-BBQ.jpg Mon Dec 15 12:15:58 -0800 2003 1392823 0 Curt 3 1392843 That Asia Airport is near, you guessed it, the airport, which is way out of downtown. If we're talking the Polo Club near Lumpini Park, the Asia Airport is nowhere near it. Near this polo club is also the best pu pad pong kari (curry crab) around! It's from the stall right across the little soi from the police station on Witthayu/Wireless Road. Just wander by and smell for it! The map I linked to is a copy of Berndtson & Berndston's "Bangkok City Centre", ISBN 3-89707-131-2. It's often available at places like Barnes and Noble. Mon Dec 15 20:03:02 -0800 2003 1392823 0 Curt 1 1392745 I've supplied a link for an interactive Bangkok map. At this point, the Century is in the third square from the left, second square down. You can see how close Victory Monument is. The Skytrain platform is just south of the circle. In the far lower left corner of this map, the green rectangle, across from Siam Square, is MBK. Link: http://members.tripod.com/~longlate/gen/m44_c10.html Fri Dec 12 01:04:49 -0800 2003 1392717 0 Curt 1 1392751 I actually honeymooned down there not too long ago. I can't offer anything on Bangkok nor can I recommend any place specific in Phuket but some of our best meals were at little stalls along less popular beaches. Some great fish. Also look out for deep fried cuttle fish in chilli sauce, and cashews fried all kinds of differnt ways -- i really liked the ones deep fried with chili and basil. Also, be sure to go to Phi Phi, ideally overnight if you can because the place is soooo much better when the big day trip boats aren't around. In fact, if you aren't completely booked I highly recommend working with your agent to work a stay in at one of the hotels on the northern end of Phi Phi don. The holiday inn there is absolutely amazing and the place offers a realy nice contrast to Phuket. Fri Dec 12 04:31:31 -0800 2003 1392717 0 SHDW 1 1392769 You are going to a wonderful country! It is surely one of the most exotic places in the entire world and I am sure you will have a great time. Here are some general tips for Thailand: First, it is usually considered rude to touch anybody you do not know. When you greet a Thai, do not extend your hand or touch them on the back, like you might do in America. Instead, give them the “Wai.” The Wai is done by placing the hands together, palms touching, with the fingers extended up, and a short bow. Rent “The King and I” if you have questions. Second, shorts are not acceptable attire in Thailand. This makes no sense because it will be hot and sticky the whole time you are there. You will not be admitted to most of the museums, homes, etc., in shorts. Instead, they will lend you a wrap-around sarong to cover your legs which only increases the misery of the heat. Take some comfortable khaki pants along with you to Thailand. Third, feet are generally considered offensive in their culture. When sitting, (and they always sit you on the floor when you tour a place or museum. Up, down, up, down, up, down..) make certain that your feet face away from either the Buddha or any portrait/image of the King. It is rude to sit with your feet pointing at the Buddha or the King. Most Thais sit in the “mermaid” position to avoid giving offense. Also, if you drop a coin, do not stop it from rolling by using your feet. The coins have a portrait of the King on them and using your feet to stop them is offensive. Fourth, chopsticks are Chinese, not Thai. Please remember this. Naturally, Thailand has many ethnic Chinese who live in their country and chopsticks are available everywhere but many foreigners assume that everyone in Asia uses chopsticks and make a show of how culturally sensitive they are by demanding chopsticks. The traditional Thai utensil is a spoon, or the fingers. Using a knife and fork is no less foreign in Thailand than using chopsticks, and both are equally acceptable. In Thai culture, when a meal is served, it is considered polite to eat a small portion of the rice alone first. This shows deference to rice as the staple food and indicates to the host/ess that even with all the delicious-looking food around, you would be completely satisfied with just a bowlful of humble rice. We still do that here in America at Thai restaurants. We spent a week in Bangkok alone and did not get out into the country so I can make suggestions on Bangkok only. Lonely Planet Books has an excellent guide book on Thailand and, if you use these books, that’s the one I would recommend. On the flight over, we had a flight attendant from Thailand on board. I asked her what the Thai pronunciation is of Bangkok and was surprised to find that Bangkok is the name Westerners use for the city. The Thai name is Klung Thep. (I made her write it down for me.) It means “Angel’s City” in Thai. I joked, “So, Bangkok is actually Los Angeles?” and was greeted with peals of laughter. I used that joke-let several times in Thailand and it always got hoots from the Thais. The pronunciation is CROONG TEP and this points out an oddity of pronunciation in Thailand. The letter “r” is pronounced like the English “l,” and the letter “l” is pronounced like the English “r”. I know this is a cliché, but it is the case in Thailand. We stayed at the Mandarin Hotel in Bangkok and when I asked the taxi driver to take us to “The Mandarin Hotel, please,” he was flummoxed. “Manhattan Hotel?,” he asked. “No, the Mandarin.” “Manhattan?” “No, Mandarin,” and so it went. Then I remembered my discussion with the Thai flight attendant and, in a moment of inspiration, said, “The Mandolin.” “Oh, yes,” he said, his face blossoming into a huge smile. We were taken directly to the Mandarin, which was the Mandolin for the rest of the stay. Also, whenever you hear them talking about Lucia (pron. loo-SEE-ah), they are talking about Russia. Took me a while to figure that out. The Grand Palace in central Bangkok is an absolute, absolute must see. It is actually a complex of palaces, museums, temples and shrines and will take at least a half day. This was the very first thing we did and I recommend you do it first thing, in the cool of the day. They have the national Buddha of Thailand there, the Emerald Buddha (actually made of jade). The Thais change the Buddha’s robes three times per year to mark the seasons: Hot season, Cool season, Rainy season. The buildings are of such exotic architecture that you won’t believe what your eyes are telling you. Incredible. The Wat Pho is on the grounds here. (“Wat” is temple.) This is the home of the largest reclining Buddha in the world and was the subject of Murray Head’s “…this grips me more than would a muddy river or a reclining Buddha” from “Chess.” Be sure to stop by the Wat Pho. Our last night in Bangkok we took a taxi down the Grand Palace to see it all again at night. The glittering buildings floodlit in the thick and wet heat was unforgettable. Fantastic. Directly across the Chao Praya River (“River of Kings”) one sees the spires of the Wat Arun (pron: Wat a-LOON). There is a cheap ferry that will run you across the river to Wat Arun. The Buddhist monks there were very friendly and the view back to the Grand Palace is exhilarating. The view from the top of the Wat is stunning but be advised that the steps are VERY steep and the climb back down can be frightening. (You’ll do it anyway.) I recommend that you take a boat excursion on the Khlongs (canals) of Bangkok. Your hotel can arrange one for you. They have old, slow boats and high-speed racers. The Japanese seemed to prefer the faster boats but I would book the slowest one I could find. You really get to look into people’s homes and lives if you float by. Whizzing by and snapping pictures looked like much the inferior experience. The Chao Praya was near flood stage when we were there and as these high-speed racers went by the wake was lapping the walls of people’s homes. One women looked very worried as the waves came within a few inches of entering her bedroom. Also, keep a lookout on narrow streets for small places where the buildings recede and make a small space. This is where the elephants used to turn around back when elephant and khlong were the primary modes of transportation in Bangkok, before the streets were flooded with smog-producing cars. (Bangkok’s air quality is horrid.) One of the royal palaces you can tour is the Vimanmek Palace and I recommend it. (No shorts allowed.) The huge palace is entirely made of teak, a wood that is almost unavailable today. Teak is one of the very hardest woods in the world and is almost impervious to rot and bugs, so the palace looks almost as new today as it did when it was built in the 19th century. I believe the guidebook states that Vimanmek is the largest teak structure in the world. They also have a fine collection of carriages and old cars in the garage and they don’t mind if you look at them. Plus the grounds are lovely and one is free to wander around them after seeing the palace. We went for tea at the Sheraton Royal Orchid after we visited Vimanmek. Nearby to Vimanmek is the Dusit Zoo, the main zoo for Thailand. We try to visit the Zoo wherever we go and have visited zoos all over the world, and we found that Bangkok has a delightful and well-planned zoo. It was a real pleasure. The only drawback was the heat and humidity. We kept buying chilled bottles of water and holding them against our foreheads and chests to stay cool. An added incentive to the Zoo is that it is next to the Capitol Building where the government (Dusit) meets and has nice views of the Dusit. As you may have figured out, take plenty of film for your camera. Another place we really enjoyed is Jim Thompson’s House. Jim Thompson was an American G.I. who was part of the Allied occupation forces after the liberation of Thailand in WWII. He stayed after the War was over and became the silk baron of Thailand. He brought modern, synthetic dyes from the United States to Thailand and revolutionized the whole silk industry, turning himself into a wealthy and powerful man. He was even on a first-name basis with the King and Queen of Thailand, unheard of for foreigners. After he because successful, Thompson purchased several old houses built in the traditional Thai style and had them all joined together into a large house along one of the Khlongs (canal). He then set about acquiring art and antiques from all over Asia with an emphasis on Thailand. His art collection and house became so popular that he started opening his home up every Wednesday for visitors who paid a small fee to see his collections. The proceeds were donated to the Bangkok School for the Blind. One day, in the 1960’s I think, Thompson went hunting with friends up to Malaysia. In the afternoon, they all got into hammocks and chaise longues for a nap. When they awoke an hour later, Thompson was gone. There was no sign of struggle as if he had been taken by a tiger, no sound to awaken everyone as if he had been taken by enemies. No evidence of Thompson has even been discovered and it remains one of the most puzzling and mysterious events in the history of Bangkok. After 7 years, according to Thai law, Thompson was declared dead. His home is now open every day and the proceeds from the visitors who come from all over the world are still donated to the Bangkok School for the Blind. His company still has stores all over Bangkok selling the finest and most beautiful silks in the world. I bought some peacock-motif silk in Thailand and had it sewn up into a shirt here in Albuquerque for a party and it caused a sensation! Pat Phong. What to say about the Pat Phong? The Pat Phong is one of the most notorious and florid sex districts in the world. If you walk down the street in the Pat Phong you will be accosted by hustlers who will entice you into sex shows with cards listing sexual acts that cannot even be imagined, such as “Ping Pong Ball” and “Banana and Basket.” The standard card has about 15 of these. (If you saw “The Adventures of Priscilla, Queen of the Desert” the Australian mechanic had a wife who put on a bizarre show with ping pong balls. She was from Thailand and mentions that she had worked at the Pat Phong.) Plan on having your money transferred from your pockets into their hands if you go to the Pat Phong. Nearby is the No Hands Restaurant. Several of the American businessmen on the flight into Bangkok could not wait to get here. You order what you wish to eat and it is served to you in the orifices of the waitress of your choice whereupon you proceed to eat your dinner with “no hands.” (I thought they were making it up!) As it turned out, the Pat Phong and the No Hands Restaurant were just down two blocks from our own Mandolin Hotel! One note: I have read that AIDS is now rife in Thailand’s sex industry. If you go to play, take appropriate steps to come home healthy. We ate at an outstanding restaurant in Bangkok called Busaracum. It is off the Soi Pipat (street) on Old Convent Road (there is a Catholic convent on this road.). The story is that the Royal Family has recipes for Thai food that are not public. Only Royals get to eat these wonderful foods. In the 50’s the current King released several of these recipes to the public and there are a handful of restaurants in Thailand that are allowed to serve these foods. I don’t believe these foods are available outside of Thailand. To say that this restaurant had great food is an understatement. It was a highpoint of the whole trip. Each dish was absolutely perfect. I strongly recommend Busaracum. We got the recommendation from the Lonely Planet Guidebook as a great place to eat but too expensive to consider for anything other than a very special occasion. I admit that when the bill came, and after having eaten one of the most incredible meals I will ever have, I wanted to reach for the American Express Gold Card without looking at the total. What would it be? $200? $300? 400? More? For two, it was just under $40. A meal of exquisite delights. I just had to feel sorry for the schmoes who were no doubt paying 3 times as much over at No Hands. When we left Bangkok, we continued over to Hong Kong and China. China is certainly very interesting and Hong Kong is just so incredibly beautiful but we felt that the best part of the trip was Thailand. Fri Dec 12 17:16:04 -0800 2003 1392717 0 TrueBlue 2 1392772 Actually, the Thai name for Bangkok is: "Krungthep Maha Nakorn, Amarn Rattanakosindra, Mahindrayudhya, Mahadilokpop Noparatana Rajdhani Mahasathan, Amorn Piman Avatarn Satit, Sakkatultiya Vishnukarn Prasit." Fortunately, they nickname it KrungThep! ;-) Jim Thompson's house is great and it would be a good visit before you hit MBK (don't want to lug around all the stuff you'll buy!). It's across Rama I from MBK, on the other side of the Skytrain platform , on Soi Kasem San 2. Many Thais believe "white people stink". It is amazing how many of the tourists really do stink! What helps with the heat, humidity, grime, and. not to mention, the stink, is frequent showers, a minimum of 2 a day. I always take 3; my record is 5! Midday showers work magic! Another heat/humidity tip is St. Lukes Prickly Heat Powder, available all over. It's medicated talc and works wonders. Personally, I never wear shorts, anywhere around Bangkok. In Bangkok, appearance is everything. Shorts are usually the garb of Thai children and street people. Shorts, tank tops, singlets and sandals are also the uniform of the backpacker horde. With few exceptions, you will be treated as your appearance merits. Phuket will be more relaxed about attire. Last tip: Never argue. Anger will not help and possibly dig you in further. Either resolve a situation calmly, or cut your losses and move on. Although service is one of Thailand's strong suits, efficiency often isn't. This seems especially true when dealing with "official" people. Just kick back, and enjoy the ride. Fri Dec 12 18:25:45 -0800 2003 1392769 0 Curt 2 1392847 True about spoon and fork, except when it comes to guaytiaow nam ... noodle soups. In this case it's chopsticks and a spoon for the broth. Much as I love Lonely Planet for Travel advice I would not recommend relying on it for food, which in most cases is geared to cheapest ... and not necessarily best. The great thing about Thailand is that you can literally follow your nose, and your eyes, on the street, and get great food. And you don't have to be able to speak a word of Thai to do it. Mon Dec 15 21:03:23 -0800 2003 1392769 0 foodfirst 3 1392848 Lonely Planet does put out "World Food: Thailand", a good introduction to the cuisine. It's not written for the backpacker. Any chowhound heading to Bangkok would also enjoy "Thai Hawker Food" by Kenny Yee and Catherine Gordon. Mon Dec 15 21:27:06 -0800 2003 1392847 0 Curt 4 1392853 The LP guide is good, but it only scratches the surface, esp for khanom and other street foods. The hawker guide is a great intro, esp for those firsttimers who might need some reassurance about the rewards of cruising Thai streets for chow. Mon Dec 15 23:38:13 -0800 2003 1392848 0 foodfirst 2 1392895 Hmm.., obviously someone’s been telling some amazing stories. I’m Thai, actually, so let me correct a few misunderstandings here. First of all, about utensils, polite society in Thailand use spoons and forks to eat. Fingers are considered impolite, except for certain finger foods like Satays. When food is served on a plate, one uses the fork to push food into the spoon, and eats from the spoon. On the other hand, when food is served in a bowl, a chopstick and a spoon (to drink the soup) are quite acceptable. A note on pronouncing R and L: we do have both the letter R (but rolling R) and L in the Thai language, and the sounds are not transposed. R is pronounced as a rolling R, and L is just like and L in English. The problem you encountered was more because of the level of education. Less educated people don’t pronounce the R properly. Their R’s are often indistinguishable from L’s. Therefore Wat Arun is pronounced Wat-Aa-Roon, not Wat-A-Loon, though you may here the latter on the street. This is the first I heard of eating a small mouthful of rice before meal. It may have been true a long time ago, but no longer observed now. The story about the Kind releasing Royal recipes is an urban myth if I’ve ever heard of one. Yes, there is such a thing as Royal Thai cuisine, and it is a completely different animal from what we know as street Thai food. The recipes and processes are not secret, as much as simply not exposed outside of upper class society. True Royal Thai cuisine can be found today in patrician households, but rarely in restaurants. Tue Dec 16 19:56:33 -0800 2003 1392769 0 pim 3 1392900 The moving the food to the spoon, with the fork, is a wonderfully efficient way to eat. But, much of the Issan fare is eaten with the hands. Kai yang, somtam and khao neow are traditionally eaten with the hands. The chicken and rice are easy; it's the salad that takes getting used to! I prefer, and usually use, a spoon and fork myself. :-) If dining inside, and utensils are suppled, use them. If you were eating somtam at the Dusit Thani, sans utensils, they will wonder what farm you rode in from. But, if you're dining curbside, it won't rate a second look. === A good chowhound Thai phrase: Aroy mawk! (Very delicious!). Now there's straight forward "R" sound,...NOT! "Less educated people don’t pronounce the R properly. Their R’s are often indistinguishable from L’s. Therefore Wat Arun is pronounced Wat-Aa-Roon, not Wat-A-Loon, though you may here the latter on the street. " OUCH! R's and L's You don't have either letter in your Language. Actually, you have more sounds and tones than English. But, you also have your own script. I suggest that the "r" in Arun is really neither an "R" or "L". Transliterations don't cut it. The sounds are similiar, but distinctly different. What, are you going to have a smelly farang in for tea? Most visitors will only meet the "street" people. And, for the most part, they're the nicest people in the world. They give Thailand it's wonderful reputation as such a friendly place to visit "Royal Thai Cuisine"is used for many things, but mostly as a sales tool. Half the cooks in US Thai eateries used to cook for Rama IX himself !!! 55555 I'll sign off with a most famous Thai phrase that fits quite well. "Mai pen rai" Oops, another tricky "r" sound! (not to mention an interesting "p") Tue Dec 16 22:39:54 -0800 2003 1392895 0 Curt 4 1392919 Any recs for where to get good "Royal Thai Cuisine"? I followed the rec for "Riverside Bangkok" but they're booked up for New Year's Eve. Also, I called the Shangri-La and their river cruise runs about 8500 baht per person - too much for us. I don't mind spending a lot but $200pp US is about double my limit. Our money's got to stretch 13 nights, to say nothing of paying my phone bill once I return with all these calls to Thailand on it. I may just follow that link Curt sent with the different river cruises and call around tonight. Any rec's for restaurants right on the river that might have a roofdeck or a patio as well as a swingin New Year's Eve party? I'll try calling the other hotels along the river to see what their parties are like as well, maybe I can find something more reasonable. Foodfirst, I'll also check out Gallery Cafe on Charoen Khrung but that's just a restaurant right? Would it be a party at a restaurant or just us eating at a restaurant? Does the BTS run all night? Can I take that back to our hotel? Also, we changed our booking for Phuket, now we're staying in the Amari Coral Resort which is supposedly on an isolated portion on the southern edge of Patong Beach. Any rec's around there would be wonderful. I promise a lengthy and full report on my return. Wed Dec 17 10:47:54 -0800 2003 1392900 0 joypirate 5 1392921 FYI I ate at the Thai riverside resteraunt at the Shangri-la. My wife and I found it amazing but we are no thai experts. They had the most amazing scallops unlike anything I have ever had before. Wed Dec 17 11:20:35 -0800 2003 1392919 0 SHDW 5 1392927 I'm sure that NYE dinner cruises are booked far in advance. Normally, the Riverside Bangkok cruise will run under 400-500 baht, food and cruise. Drinks?! The BTS Skytrain runs 06:00 to 24:00. Another interesting cruise is the Oriental Hotel's cruise to Ayutthaya. It runs about 2,000 baht, takes most of a day, and features a nice buffet onboard. If you give it a go, try to book the bus up, boat back trip. Either is fun, but the boat back might be a bit more "relaxing". Wed Dec 17 12:12:30 -0800 2003 1392919 0 Curt 6 1392961 Another hotel on the river is the Montien Riverside. They may have something going at a lower price. Yes the Gallery Cafe is just a restaurant. That was my rec bec. even on New Year's Eve my first and foremost concern is food, and after I've had a sufficiently delicious dinner then I'll just go out to the street and ring in the New Year surrounded by boisterous Thais (drinking beer in public is not a problem in Bangkok). If food is not your primary focus there are any number of riverside restaurants with just OK food ... Supatra River House springs to mind, there is a place at River City mall on the terrace. Not sure when you're arriving but you might be able snag a table by checking out some of these places on an afternoon before the big event. The BTS runs later than usual on New Year's Eve. Wed Dec 17 22:47:21 -0800 2003 1392927 0 foodfirst 7 1392963 New Years Eve, in Bangkok, could be interesting! Link: http://www.thaivisa.com/index.php?514&backPID=58&tt_news=651 Thu Dec 18 00:24:08 -0800 2003 1392961 0 Curt 8 1392964 Ah yes, Thaksin's morality police, for whom the motto is "Don't act, overreact." A very pertinent link. Well, so much for drinking in public on the Eve ... and maybe in restaurants as well? Thu Dec 18 01:48:22 -0800 2003 1392963 0 foodfirst 9 1392980 Yes, Toxin's a real keeper! Actually, I was very surprised with your comment about drinking in public. I've never seen it, other than the ol' bag-wrapped bottle swilling. But, then again, I don't drink. Possibly, it does occur at some venues. In any case, this year wouldn't be a good one to wander the streets drunk. Thu Dec 18 12:26:19 -0800 2003 1392964 0 Curt 7 1393004 The Montien Riverside has a cruise for 4000 baht and a dinner buffet for 2400 (apparently a magician named Michael Tang will be doing a show as well). I think we'll do the cruise - sounds fun and I don't want to wait too much longer and risk everything being booked up. Fri Dec 19 10:32:44 -0800 2003 1392961 0 joypirate 5 1392962 BTW ... you can easily get by foodwise in Bangkok on $25 MAX a day or less for the two of you --- much much less if you eat at markets and street stalls. Eg. dinner at an outdoor grilled chicken place, a full dinner (grilled chicken, somtam, sticky rice, a vegetable) with beer for two people, at $6. Lunch for two at a market for (a couple of noodles, maybe some desset) $4. Even in a hotel --- You and Mee, an upscale noodle place in the basement of the Hyatt with quite decent fare (never as good as the street, but pretty good nonetheless): noodles, coconut ice cream, and watermelon juice for 1 is $4. This might make you feel a little better about splurging on New Year's Eve. I can't imagine a corner of Patong Beach that's quiet. Be very careful about ordering seafood at any of the restaurants around there --- make sure you get a price (total price, not per kg) before placing your order. Wed Dec 17 22:55:09 -0800 2003 1392919 0 foodfirst 1 1392790 I agree with that Thai food is WAY better than Western food in Thailand, want to recommend a few favourites of mine that is within easy reach to sky train station. I'll group the places by Sky train station name. Siam (MBK, Siam Square area) MBK:I love the food court on 6th floor of MBK, especially the stewed pork leg on rice dish. (Khao Ka Moo). I also like the Boat Noodle shop on the ground floor, right next to the "TOPS" Supermarket. You will see a big boat inside the dimly lit restaurant and it's always crowded. Their soup noodle is very good. Siam Square Since it's within easy walk from Siam Square Skytrain, I recommend "Mango Tango", a dessert store on Siam Square Soi 3..if you like Mango, that's the plc.. Chidlom Central Department store right off the station, on the top floor there is a very fancy foodcourt with great food and great view. NANA Bed Supper Club: 26 Sukhumvit Soi 11, Bangkok Tel:02-6513537 (you can walk from Nana Sky Train station, but it's far, better take a taxi) The building and interior design is stunning, spacey and trendy, and the food are great. It's a set menu (3 or 4 course) menu with Thai/Western fusion food. We like to go on Sunday when it's less crowded and they have a jazz band playing. Need reservation. Phrom Phong Greyhound Cafe 2nd Floor, The Emporium, Sukhumvit Soi 24 It's right out the Skytrain station Phrom Phong. I've the chili clam pasta..it's fantastic. Thong Loi There are a lot street food vendor on Soi 36, with choices of rice, noodle, drinks...pretty famous area. But don't go there too early, the area is not alive till 8-9pm Victory Monument There is a cluster of food vendor there, the noodle cart plc is pretty good, and the Saxophone pub (jazz bar) is our favourite hangout after dinner. Mo Chit Chatuchak is great, but take my word, go there early before it's too hot. I grew up tropical country but the heat is too much even for me. Some of the eating place there is good: esp those with no english menu. Just point and order. There are many other great delights (esp in the Ekkamai area...) but theses should the most easily accessible to you. Enjoy!!!! Sat Dec 13 17:32:56 -0800 2003 1392717 0 MIffy214 2 1392791 The big boat restaurant next to the TOPS supermarket in the MBK building, has my favorite soup. I forget what it's called, I think it's the Nam Tork style pork stew soup. REALLY good and spicy. Their pork salad is also pretty good. Afterwards head over to the Tops and buy yourself some fresh tropical fruits. Try them all! The freshly-squeezed orange/lime juices they sell from street carts are a great way to beat the heat on your way from the BTS station. Sat Dec 13 18:12:20 -0800 2003 1392790 0 WBGuy