263358 Wed Oct 15 12:12:04 -0700 2003 12 26 International 0 1391222 Help! I am hoping Cabrales who seems to more knowledgeable about 3-Star places than anyone else can give me so some much needed advice! My options for a Saturday night if I cannot get into L'Ambroisie are: Lucas Carton, le Cinq, Ledoyen, Guy Savoy and le Bristol. Been to Le Bristol, Ledoyen and Guy Savoy several times before so if people think le Cinq or Lucas Carton are worth it then let me know! Food is the priority, so not including Lucas Carton's wine matches in my thoughts as I would rather spend the bulk of the money on the food not the wine! Basically how good is Le Cinq and how good is the food at Lucas Carton? Wed Oct 15 12:12:04 -0700 2003 0 DEM 1 1391224 I don't know if I know more in the way you describe, but will give this an attempt. -- I don't subjectively like Le Cinq, but I've only eaten there for lunch a few times. I have a copy of a recent menu from Le Cinq, and can type up some dishes if you request (even though I don't have the tasting menu portions). I would subjectively pick Lucas-Carton over Le Cinq, but that's in part because I have a significant history relating to Lucas-Carton (it being the first three-star I ever went to). I think Lucas-Carton will be a bit more expensive than Le Cinq food-wise (unless you select the Canard Apicius aka duck apicius entrees for two people at L-C), and there's more of a "hit or miss" quality with respect to L-C's cusine. I don't know what to recommend for you, and believe that, although I subjectively would pick L-C over L'Ambroisie and Le Cinq, L'Ambroisie is probably the best way to go Saturday night. -- Also note Le Cinq has a lunch prix fixe menu at 70 euros with decent selection for each course. That might be a better way to experience Le Cinq, if you want to sample Legendre's cuisine. Le Cinq has other tasting menus too, but this one is available only during lunch. -- If you like cigars, L-C has a much better cigar selection. I also believe L-C has a more appealing decor. If you go to L-C, note that which aperatif you order will determine what 2 amuses (they are a bit larger than the typical) you receive. Consider ordering different aperatifs, if you are not dining alone. -- Note that one of L-C's signature dishes, foie steamed in cabbage, may not be available during dinnertime in current periods. Check the Lucas-Carton website. -- L'Ambroisie doesn't have a tasting menu. So, if you are interested in a tasting menu, consider that. I have not been particularly thrilled with L'Ambroisie, but, of the three-stars on Saturday evenings, I would suggest L'Ambroisie, if you have not visited such restaurants. It's a restaurant that other diners view in high regard. In particular, I didn't particularly like the langoustines with sesame wafer and curry sauce dish that is among the restaurant's signature dishes. I've eaten at the restaurant during every one of the four seasons, and it's appropriately prepared cuisine, but not necessarily a good subjective match for me. -- If you haven't been to Guy Savoy, consider that. Ask the restaurant in particular for a 10:00 pm seating, and see if that facilitates your receipt of a reservation (if you could accept that dining time). I'm not a big fan of Savoy's cuisine either, but I think it's a good option on Saturday evenings. An appropriate cuisine in a modern, nicely decorated setting. You could consider one of the tasting menus. There is a black truffle tasting menu when in season (query uncertainty from weather conditions this year), but I wasn't particularly impressed with that. A non-truffle tasting menu would be lengthier (in number of dishes) and about the same price as a la carte at L'Ambroisie. One non-truffle tasting menu tends to include his artichoke soup with black truffled brioche dish. -- Ledoyen is not open on Saturday evenings. -- Also, don't consider L'Astrance (in case you were wondering) for Saturday evenings. It's now closed on weekends. :) Wed Oct 15 13:59:44 -0700 2003 1391222 0 cabrales 2 1391227 Upon rereading the question, I see that the diner has been to Guy Savoy several times. I would say, then, in order (not my own order, but what I think other people's order would be): L'Ambroisie, Lucas-Carton, Le Cinq. Wed Oct 15 14:30:55 -0700 2003 1391224 0 cabrales 1 1391250 L'Ambroisie may not have a published tasting menu but they will certainly do one for you upon request. I asked the waiter after perusing the menu to ask the chef if he would prepare a menu spontanée of anything he liked or put together a dégustation of menu items and what I got was both. The server seemed not put off in the least. I(we) received excellent service, wine recs and fantastic food. There were two of us. I am pretty sure that we were charged 200Euro for the menu. You don't know if you don't ask. Wed Oct 15 18:06:47 -0700 2003 1391222 0 DodinBouffant 2 1391251 How many dishes did you receive? Were they just splitting the dishes that each of you would have ordered, such that you had three or four courses (including dessert)? This is interesting... Wed Oct 15 18:24:46 -0700 2003 1391250 0 cabrales 3 1391265 There were definitely some dishes that I recalled seeing on the menu(bar, st. Jacques)and the rest I believe were spontaneous. The preparations were all elegantly simple and I wouldn't necessarily say challenging in a culinary sense but were definitely all prepared to perfection. The menu is as follows, perhaps not perfectly complete as I compiled the notes after dining but all the courses are here. Les Amuses Bouches Tranche de Bar Vapeur avec Cepes Noix de St. Jacques..concombre, creme de coconut et Tapioca Dos de Turbot, Citron Confit, Endives Caramelisee Poele de Foie Gras a la vanille...brioche Canard de Colvert Sauvage Roti (this was roasted whole and brought to the table(for two)then returned to the kitchen for plating accompanied by some caramelized pears and???? Chariot de Fromage Tarte au Chocolat Fromage Blanc avec soup de fruits Les Mignardises Like I said not exactly challenging the diner but perfection in preparation. Regarding the Bristol and it's website and the menu posted. Do you know if that is just a representative menu because a lot of the dishes listed are the same one's that were there last November and I have reservations early this November and certainly do not wish to have the same dinner. Although it was an amazing dinner, and the spiced duck with the orange caramelized turnips was one of the best duck preparations I have ever had. Just wondering. Thu Oct 16 09:21:49 -0700 2003 1391251 0 DodinBouffant 4 1391266 Not all available dishes on a given day at L'Ambroisie are included on the menu. The maitre d' or the wife of Pacaud tend to describe certain specials available on a day orally. But 200 euros is not a bad price for what the poster sampled, especially since cheese alone would ordinarily be around 28 euros. If the restaurant doesn't offer to cook for a diner, does the poster have the habit of asking restaurants in France for tasting menus and what other positive responses has the poster received? Thu Oct 16 10:13:52 -0700 2003 1391265 0 cabrales 5 1391275 I guess it all depends on how much confidence you have in the chef of the restaurant. I had a reasonable expectation(without prior viewing of the menu)that there would be a degustation menu available at L'Ambroisie, there wasn't so I asked and they didn't seem to bat an eyelash and were very gracious. With regard to restaurants of "lesser fame" , I have made requests(albeit few) to have a menu spontanée upon returning to a restaurant after a favorable first visit. I would use good judgement and not render a request to have the chef cook for me if the place is so busy that it would upset the kitchen, which would be counterproductive to my meal. Many of the ambitious chefs de cuisine in France(as well as other European countries) offer multiple course tasting menus anyway, so the option is usually available. Thu Oct 16 12:14:00 -0700 2003 1391266 0 DodinBouffant 6 1391276 I've never proactively asked for a tasting menu when none was officially offered, in France or anywhere. (I have received numerous offers by restaurants to cook for me or provide tasting menus for me, when none were officially available. But a restaurant's offer is, in my mind, very different from a diner's request.) I've never affirmatively asked for them. Have any other diners asked this at a three-star (I appreciate a majority of the three stars have tasting menus)? Thu Oct 16 12:37:58 -0700 2003 1391275 0 cabrales 7 1391280 I've read many of the other previous posts, especially the one's in the other thread concerning special treatment. How would a patron unknown to the restaurant(this is an assumption on my part)just happen to have an offer for the chef to cook for them? I could think that specific inquisitiveness may lead to a waiter suggesting that he/she would ask the chef if it is possible to prepare a special menu, but I would think that certainly would not be the norm. I find it much easier to gauge the "temperament" of the restaurant and then decide whether or not it is worthwhile to ask for a special menu. I wouldn't mind continuing this conversation off the boards if you wish to e-mail me. Seems we have veered a little off the topic. DodinBouffantataol.com Thu Oct 16 13:44:28 -0700 2003 1391276 0 DodinBouffant 8 1391283 On how somebody unknown to the restaurant gets the chef to offer to cook for them, most three-star restaurants have hotels outside of Paris. Just stay at the hotel and have two or three consecutive meals there. The first meal, start making observations to the dining room staff. If the input is extremely insightful, it will be relayed to the chef. Some chefs tour the dining room at the end of meal. If the chef asks, say something insightful. Then, subsequent meals, the chef or the maitre d' might (I'm not saying, will) offer to cook for the diner. This usually requires very insightful comments, which I believe I provide. Thu Oct 16 14:20:09 -0700 2003 1391280 0 cabrales 7 1391282 Back when Guy Savoy was a 2-star (actually the year before they got their 3rd) Burke and Wells did (link below). Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/260279#1375599 Thu Oct 16 13:51:44 -0700 2003 1391276 0 Limster 8 1391285 I was at Guy Savoy when another diner requested it, and got it, in all likelihood. It's reported on the prior public board in which I participated, although I'm not sure I discussed the mechanics of the ordering. I'm not too sure about the mechanics of the ordering myself that evening, given that I wasn't ordering. Thu Oct 16 16:36:37 -0700 2003 1391282 0 cabrales