262602 Tue Apr 08 23:08:00 -0700 2003 14 27 General Chowhounding Topics 0 1387606 I posted this question as a follow-up to a post below, but I think it got lost in the maze...and was never answered. But I am confident that someone here has the answer: Is all jamon iberico necessarily also jamon de bellota? My understanding was that jamon iberico comes from the iberian pig, and that sometimes that pig is raised on acorns, leading to jamon de bellota. But sometimes the iberian pigs are not raised on acorns, and so you get jamon (or whatever embutido) iberico (but not de bellota). That is, I thought that all jamon de bellota is jamon iberico, but not vice versa....in the same way that all jamon iberico is also jamon serrano, but not all jamon serrano is jamon iberico. (You can think of three concentric circles: the outermost is jamon serrano, the middle one is jamon iberico, and the innermost one is jamon de bellota / pata negra.) Can someone confirm or clarify this? Thanks, Michael Tue Apr 08 23:08:00 -0700 2003 0 Michael Lerner 1 1387618 Jamón serrano comes from ordinary white pigs. Jamón ibérico comes from Iberian pigs, which are darker, which is why it is often called "pata negra" ("black leg"). Iberian pigs are free to roam the "dehesas" (estates where holm oaks are plentiful), thus ensuring an even distribution of their fat within their bodies. If these Iberian pigs have only been fed with acorns from holm oaks ("bellotas" in Spanish), then their ham is "jamón de bellota". If they have been fed with other stuffs (such as cereals) in addition to acorns, then their ham is "jamón de recebo". If they have not eaten acorns, but ordinary fodder, their ham is "jamón de pienso". In short, jamón de bellota is a particular kind of jamón ibérico (which, in turn, is synonymous with jamón de pata negra). But not all jamón ibérico / jamón de pata negra is jamón de bellota: it can also be jamón de recebo or jamón de pienso. Remember that, properly speaking, "jamón" comes from the hind legs of the pig, whereas the front legs are called "paletilla". There are 3 "Denominaciones de Origen" (areas with a special quality label) when it comes to Iberian hams: Dehesa de Extremadura, jamón de Huelva and Guijuelo. The most famous hams come from Jabugo, in Huelva (Andalusia) and from Guijuelo (Salamanca). Joselito Gran Reserva (Guijuelo) and Sánchez Romero Carvajal 5J (Jabugo) are the best-known top Spanish hams. Wed Apr 09 16:06:51 -0700 2003 1387606 0 Jordi 2 1387621 Jordi-- Thanks for that incredibly informative response. I've had it explained to me many times, by many Spaniards, but you finally clarified some issues for me! I've found that many restaurants in Spain just list it as "jamón ibérico"... Should we assume that it is jamón de pienso if the restaurant doesn't specify that it is jamón de bellota or jamón de recebo? Another question: do you know what jamón serrano pigs are generally fed? Wed Apr 09 18:16:56 -0700 2003 1387618 0 butterfly 3 1387629 At a restaurant or a bar, it is extremely hard to know whether you are being served bellota, recebo or pienso: in most places, the waiters simply have no idea. You can always ask to check the label (it should say what kind of ham it is), but I don't think they will let you do it at most restaurants. Bellota is expensive, so if you come across what seems to be a bargain, chances are it's going to be recebo or pienso. On the other hand, the price itself is no guarantee. Jamón serrano pigs are generally fed cereals, although fodders may include other ingredients (such as soya beans for additional proteine). There is only one "Denominación de Origen" for jamón serrano: jamón de Teruel, which is usually much cheaper than jamón ibérico, and can be quite good. Thu Apr 10 03:56:36 -0700 2003 1387621 0 Jordi 2 1387622 Thank you for the clarification, Jordi. I know the differences only on a very general level - e.g. the differences between the pig's colors for Iberico and Serrano. Now, does anybody know if and where I can get authentic Spanish jamon, and hopefully Jabugo hams, here in the Bay Area? I've purchased at Dean and Deluca before but the person behind the deli counter couldn't tell me whether the ham came from Spain or just local. Thanks. Wed Apr 09 19:27:03 -0700 2003 1387618 0 rcc 3 1387623 There currently isn't any way to legally get jamón ibérico in the US. There is one place--tienda.com--that has a plan in the works to bring some in later next year (but at a cost). The reason jamón ibérico cannot be imported is because the pata negra pigs are not raised in USDA approved facilities. You can read the full story on how tienda.com is circumventing this below... My advice to you is to get a ticket to Spain and eat jamón ibérico--and the many other insanely fabulous Spanish pork products--to your heart's content. Until then, tienda.com has some good options, some of which are made in the US. Link: http://www.tienda.com/food/jabugo2.html Image: http://www.tienda.com/images/cerdos.jpg Wed Apr 09 21:37:35 -0700 2003 1387622 0 butterfly 4 1387627 Thank you for the tienda.com tip. Yes, I am seriously contemplating on using up some mileage to go to Spain late this year. A couple of years ago, my wife and I had the chance to sample most of those pork products in Catalunya and the Pyrenees - all those different kinds of chorizos for hotel breakfasts was mind-blowing and un-erasable from our minds. Also misses those churros and chocolate snacks. For now, I'll check out tienda.com. Thu Apr 10 02:05:41 -0700 2003 1387623 0 rcc 3 1387628 Here's the answer on the SF board on where to purchase jamon serrano. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/21454#77199 Thu Apr 10 02:20:31 -0700 2003 1387622 0 Melanie Wong 2 1387645 Thanks for a great explanation. That's more or less what I thought, but I didn't know about the recebo/pienso distinction, nor about the D.O.s for ham. I was getting confused by people talking about jamon iberico and jamon de bellota as if the two were exactly the same. - Michael Thu Apr 10 23:27:36 -0700 2003 1387618 0 Michael Lerner 2 1387646 When I was in Andalusia, I also vaguely remember that there is some type of ranking system for jamon iberico by the number of Js. Five is the best available. Is this right or just a figment of my imagination? Fri Apr 11 00:20:15 -0700 2003 1387618 0 HKTraveler 3 1387647 Actually, the number of Js is a sign of quality only in hams made by the top producer of Jabugo ham, Sánchez Romero Carvajal. This is why their best ham is 5Js ("cinco jotas"). Fri Apr 11 03:26:29 -0700 2003 1387646 0 Jordi 2 1387655 Jordi, Thank you very much for your very clear explanation. It has been interesting and useful. I live in Tokyo and there is a Spanish style bar with over 80 kinds of sherry. They also offer five kinds of Spanish Jamon, four are from Spain and one is from Japan made by a man who studied the process in Spain. I always liked having an assortment of these, but knew very little about them. Thanks to you, I can return and enjoy them even more with your explanations! Muchas gracias. Fri Apr 11 21:41:39 -0700 2003 1387618 0 Bryan Harrell 1 1387635 Bellota Or Jabuego is like no other ham or cured meat product in the world. When in Spain I must have a plate of Ham a day or I go into shock. That said, the Serrano sold here is quite nice (in comparision to what's available in the USA). I would be careful w/the Bellota that Tienda is going to sell in the USA. The sausages that are sold here from Spain are made from Danish pigs! Damn Federal regulations. I found that the palleta cut of the Jamon Bellota is the most flavorful and the least oily. In Madrid you must try the best museum in the entire world, el museo Jamon, a chain of bars/snack shops that have every type of Spanish cured meat product. Just the aroma gets me high. Also, one of the best plates of Jamon I've ever had is the palleta of Bellota at Asador Fronton in Madrid on Tirso Molina. El Museo D Jamon has a web site, Asador is setting one up now. MMMMMMMMMMM Thu Apr 10 09:30:44 -0700 2003 1387606 0 Ivan Stoler 1 1388994 That's correct! Simple and clear explanation. I am manager of a Jamón Ibérico producing company, from southwestern Spain. Your are invited to visit our works if you are over here sometime. Wed Jul 02 16:20:15 -0700 2003 1387606 0 Diego Pastor 1 2140734 Does anyone know where to purchase Perneil, (I am not sure of the spelling), but it is similar to Prsciutto, but incredibly more savory and delicious. I had a lot of it when I was in Spain, but could not find it here. Also, any good sources of Manchego cheese. Sun Dec 31 03:08:10 -0800 2006 1387606 63060 acharya