262188 Thu Jan 02 05:19:36 -0800 2003 9 26 International 0 1385347 Without a doubt these two countries offer outstanding and unique cuisines. I think Indonesia holds definite edge based on my judgement of 3 days in Singapore and many years in Indonesia. On the value and service, Indonesia wins hands down. You just raise your hands and scores of waiters will assist you. As far as taste, it might be relative but there was just no comparison. BTW, I also had done lots of research at the main food website of SGP which is makantime.com. What I found was that places recommended by the makantime.com were difficult to find and sometimes non-existent. You would be wasting your time unless you had two months time to explore. The food courts are the best way to explore the local cuisines. Hawker centers are also OK but they are without AC. The food qualities and prices at the food courts and hawker centers are about the same. So why go to hawker center ? There is no reason, skip it and go to a nice food courts that has full AC.Some were better but not significantly so to warrant special trips. As an example, Makantime.com recommended highly a chicken rice stall at a hawker center that is so hot because there was no AC. The chicken rice was maybe slightly better (also boneless) than what we had at a HUGE 4 story food courts that is fully AC. I will recommend to find a good sized food courts that has AC. Almost all the malls had a decent sized food court at their basement. Some of the local cuisines not to be missed: -Chicken rice, Laksa, Char Kwee Tiauw, Hokkian Mee, Nasi Lemak set in banana leaf, Oyster Omellette. The others were not so memorable. But if you go to Indonesia, you can find them there also. Cheaper and better IMO although they are not as prevalent as in SGP. -The chili crabs were best found in East Coast Park. Anyone of them will do but prepare to spend $25 per person. But if you go to Indonesia, skip this as it is cheaper there and better. I will highlight the best places that I found: -Takashimaya huge shopping mall at Orchard road has a basement food court that is fully AC and has bewildering selection of local foods as well as International offerings. It has a nice decor. All the shops are professionally designed. -I stayed at Phoenix hotel also at Orchard road which has advantage of having a high speed internet at all the rooms at a reasonable cost. It is also centrally located that you can walk to the major malls at Orchard road. -Across from the Phoenix hotel, there was a food court at the basement of a building (local PG&E) that open at 7 am. Decent Nasi Lemak can be had there. -I had good meals at nearby malls but I did not bother to take notes. There was just a lot of good food around. Now, Indonesia is different. The qualities are significantly different from one place to the next that special trips are worth it. I recommend that a visitor stayed near the center of the city close to the presidential palace or Monas square. You need to hire a driver in Jakarta. They can be had for about $175-250 per week (both the car and driver). You will feel like a royalty for sure. Some food not to be missed: -Satay (chicken, lamb and pork), chicken rice set with roast pork, cha siu pork, etc, Nasi Tim (claypot rice), Padang cuisine, Jogja cuisine, Cirebon cuisine, small foods such as LEMPERS, kue lapis and also the ES KACANG (shaved ice with mix of agars, fruits, etc), Chinese cuisine. Here are some places that I found outstanding: TAMAN ANGGREK MALL food court: fully AC and you can find great many of the Indonesian specialties there. You have to buy coupons to buy the food and whatever leftover coupons can be refunded. SARI KURING: excellent fried fish, tofu omelette, spicy squid and boiled shrimps. HARI-HARI in Pluit area: excellent egg fu yung, frog legs, fried noodles, fish, pickles. GAJAH MADA noodles: good noodles place. BOROBUDUR HOTEL: the buffet offer excellent Indonesian dishes and superb OXTAIL soup. HOLLAND BAKERY: awesome LEMPERS (glutinous rice with chicken fillings) and baked goods. For chicken satays, I recommend to find one of those moving carts being pushed around with the person yelling SATEE out loud. After eating them, I just realized I am in FOOD NIRVANA. It is simply awesome. Do not forget to go to PUNCAK which is about 2 hours from Jakarta. It is a cool area with many tea leaves being grown on the rolling hills. If possibile, stay there a night or two - I say that it is a must do. RINDU ALAM is one outstanding restaurant on the way to PUNCAK PASS (highest point). It has excellent PADANG food which is a bit spicy. It also offers other dishes such as satays which are excellent. No need for AC here and the environment and the coolness will transport you into another soothing realm. The view is also great. Get the seating near the outside. I recommend to people who are not afraid of warm and humid weather to go there. You need to spend at least one to two weeks to fully appreciate the place. Get a nice hotel like Hilton or similar with a cooling swimming pool. For shopping and eating, Indonesia is paradise. But for sceneries and weather comfort, it is not the best place by any means. Any others who wants to share/opinions ?? Thu Jan 02 05:19:36 -0800 2003 0 Han Lukito 1 1385362 Hi Han, Your trip brings back fond memories. I had a better time(food wise) in Singapore than I did in Indonesia, but I went in the summer of 97' and early 98'. Being ethnically Chinese I stayed away from Jakarta, and when asked what nationality I was I told them American, but when pressed to disclose my roots I had to lie and say I was Korean. I was also backpacking, so needless to say I didn't travel in style. Your bill for hiring a car and driver at a cost of $200+ for a week would have seemed outrageous to me (acutally still does as I remember the prices I paid for things). The exchange rate was Rp17,000 to the dollar and I had a hotel room with pool, garden and breakfast for Rp 25,000 and in Bali now less. I spent a couple of months travelling throughout several islands and had the opportunity to sample the local food. I had intended to go to Manado to try their specialites: forest rat, flying fox (bat), and their version of dog, but due to a series of storms, I was stuck on the Togian islands for over ten days which was an adventure in itself. I had to resort to hunting for my own food from the sea. Fish, lobster and giant clam were on the menu for many of those days. Due to the economic crisis, many places I went into had huge menus but could only serve me nasi goreng or mi goreng. I would order the roast quail or lamb curry, but the waiter would always respond with "tidak ada lagi..."(there is none or no more) I lost over twenty pounds in Indonesia, but I gained most of it back in two weeks in Singapore :) I landed in Singapore and went on a eating frenzy. I spent almost three times as much in Singapore as I did in Indonesia. It's funny how when the difference in exchange rate is smaller, I tend to care less how I spend it when in reality I'm spending more money. In Indonesia I would think twice about paying Rp2,000 per stick of satay (or about 10 cents), but I actually considered S$.80(about US$.50) for the same satay in Singapore a good price. I'm sure some of you reading this will think or even say out loud: "You cheap bastard...". And all I can say is "Guilty as charged". I can't explain it. Oh well, I'm sure I'll face a similar situation again on another trip. I actually preferred the Pepper crab over the chili crab. I also had an incredible watermelon ice cream at the food court in Takashimaya. Talk about refreshing! Curry fishhead was so good, kinda funny because I live in San Diego now and love to get the terra firma cousin of that dish in the carne de cabeza (head meat) tacos. I think these two countries don't quite measure up to the Nonya cuisine in Malacca and Penang though. That's another story. Fri Jan 03 05:23:36 -0800 2003 1385347 0 Nathan Lee 2 1385373 Thanks for sharing. Your backpacking trip seemed VERY adventurous. I love Manado food also. Nearby where I lived, there was home that sells these food. I love the RICA-RICA PORK and WOKU CHICKEN. In Indonesia, I concentrated on Jakarta mainly. Mediocre food can be found at many places in JKT at very cheap prices. They can be tourist traps. In SGP, the quality is pretty close among the food courts vendors. So, you can't go wrong 9 times out of 10. But in JKT, you must know where to go to find the gems. And there are LOTS of gems there for sure. Also, the gem places are usually more expensive compared to the mediocre places but low relative to western standard. You cannot be stingy or fixed your mind on those low priced restaurants. Some of those low priced restaurants are also very good. And when we pay 3 times that amount at other places, we balked. That is a mistake. If the food is good, PAY it for the quality that cannot be repeated anywhere else. For example, the oxtail soup at BOROBUDUR HOTEL is probably 3-5 times higher than a similar dish of lesser quality elsewhere. But it is worth it, and by USA standard, a few dollars for an outstanding soup is worth it. The potstickers (kuo tie) at a well known place such as Sanjaya, etc are outstanding. The Chinese cuisine at CAHAYA LESTARI is outrageously delicious that makes mouth watered just thinking about it. And the seafood at NYUN NYAN at Batutulis in Central Jakarta is expensive compared to others but once you tried it then you know the golden standard of deliciousness. Have you tried the egg fu yung at these chinese places ? Most tourists don't even know of such places or dishes. But be careful: expensive places does not necessarily mean good either. I went to a swanky place recommended by a relative and paid $50 for the 3 of us which is a huge sum in JKT and the food is very mediocre. You must know where to go to find the gems. It was always consistent. And when I visitted these places, then I realized that my plane ticket is well worth the price. I just hate the heat ! When I was there for 10 days in December (rainy season), 8 out of 10 days were warm. The other two days were cool and pleasant. I could not stand outside more than 5 minutes before going back to an AC room. Fri Jan 03 15:22:05 -0800 2003 1385362 0 Han Lukito 3 1385376 Unfortunately I didn't go to Jakarta. It was deemed to be too dangerous at the time. I agree, I believe sometimes you have to pay a little more for alot better tasting food. If you skimp out of the little extra, that's like wasting your plane ticket. Fri Jan 03 18:32:58 -0800 2003 1385373 0 Nathan Lee 4 1385382 I remembered during those dangerous times, my parents were trapped in a hospital building while the mob swirling outside. We all tried to figure out a way to get them out of the country. But Jakarta is now quite safe as long as you go to the well known places. Even the bombs threat already subsided. Also, a driver is very useful in JKT. I was born there and lived for 14 yrs but after living in USA for so long, it is not easy to navigate my way around. And for $200 a week, it's well worth it. You can't even rent a decent car here in USA for that price at most rental places. Taxi is another less convenient option. But you have to flag them down and stand in the heat. At less well known places, it's tough to find taxis. I start my chowdown very early in the morning. At 7 am, I 'm off to the chinese section of the city to find excellent food. It's not the cleanest road but the food stalls themselves are good enough. Most other places are not even opened yet. I ate 4 to 5 times a day. The energy is consumed by shopping/walking around malls and swimming in the hotel's pool. Another bad thing was the diarrhea. I always gets it when I visit this part of the world even though I only drink bottled water only. Maybe someone can give me good advice on this. Sat Jan 04 00:50:57 -0800 2003 1385376 0 Han Lukito 1 1385383 What a great post! It makes me rethink my hesitation to check out Jakarta over a long weekend. The situation there sounds similar to Bangkok ... very little "bad" food, lots of just OK/mediocre food (that might actually seem better-than-OK if you've only eaten Thai at restaurants in the US), and then some real gems. All BBQ carts and fried noodle stalls are not created equal! And some relatively expensive (by local standards) places are worth the splurge. Thanks again for an excellent guide. I'm printing and filing this one. Sat Jan 04 03:01:00 -0800 2003 1385347 0 foodfirst 2 1385392 Oh, I forgot to mention there was this awesome all-you-can eat porridge place in ANCOL area where the HAI-LAI sporting events used to be. All the taxis should know it. It has good porridge and the real eye opener was the side dishes. What a formidable array of side dishes ! It's got crabs, huge shrimps, pork, countless delicious high quality side dishes for a mere few dollars (something ridicilous like $3.00 per person). This place will put TODAI, Bellagio and all the rest of them tasteless buffet to shame - it's the greatest chinese buffet I have seen in my life. In fact none of the side dishes are less than good quality except the dim sums. The place is full AC, huge inside and beautiful. Impeccable service with many waiters racing to help your every need. Great desserts also. It's a chinese restaurant and usually crowded the moment it opened. I am sure this gem is not known by the tourists. I did not see any around. But the locals-in-the know cherished the place. There are probably tons of these kinds of places that I don't know about. Some are tiny little places that a person will visit time and time again. JKT is a crown jewel in my book for food. And the prices are so ridicilously low. Even the high-end ones are low compared to western standard. I went to Grand Hyatt late night buffet and it looked good to me but they were mostly western foods (better than any buffet in US I tried) and I balked after all the good food I tasted - it was high priced in JKT standard but was only like $10-20. Grand Hyatt is known for its ridicilously high prices but even so, I considered it reasonable because I'm from USA. Sat Jan 04 17:10:50 -0800 2003 1385383 0 Han Lukito 1 1385393 Hi Han, Thanks for sharing the tips on Jakarta chow. I do, however, beg to differ re: your comments about Singapore food. Of course, my opinion is coloured by the fact that I'm Singaporean, just as yours may be influenced by your Indonesian origins. That is, we know more about the food of our respective countries of origin than that of our neighbours. While I agree that many of the airconditioned food courts in S'pore serve pretty good food, and some stalls even have GREAT food (like the roti prata stall at Suntech City - miles better than Jalan Kayu's), many of the best hawker stalls are still in the open-air hawker centres and traditional (non-AC) coffee shops. One of them is the hawker centre at the Tiong Bahru market (my favourites: soya sauce chicken with thin kway teow 'tar', chwee kway, chicken rice, vegetarian beehoon, chwee chia pow), and the chicken rice stall on Eng Hoon Street across from this market. Another is the Balestier Rd hawker center - Hoover rojak (best in S'pore), chai tow kueh, duck rice ("lor ap"), chicken rice. For bean curd dessert (tow hueh) I will drive to a coffeeshop in Geylang, near the red light district. At the other end of the scale are restaurants like Lei Garden, Wah Luck, Mouth. Just like in Indonesia, special trips are worth it. But, as you said, 3 days isn't sufficient time to find the places where you can sample the breadth and depth of Singapore cuisine, just as 3 days in Jakarta would be too short if you didn't know the city. As for meal prices, a comparison would be pointless since salaries, cost of living and GDP in our 2 countries are so disparate. Unfortunately I read your post too late to post my recs. You might find Makansutra (website and book) more reliable than Makantime for future research. Sat Jan 04 17:22:06 -0800 2003 1385347 0 ju 2 1385397 Thanks, Ju. If I known you earlier, I would have asked more questions and probably save time and efforts. A friend of mine who frequented Singapore regularly, probably on a weekly basis for his job, and who also an avid chowhound informed me that many of the dishes in SGP such as chicken rice, etc can be had in JKT and taste better and cheaper. Of course, some dishes like the Nonya cuisines are probably non-existent in JKT. He also told me that for refined chinese cuisine like Hu Cui(2nd floor Takashimaya), SGP is probably better. But the prices are also astronomically higher than JKT. He once took me to a very exclusive chinese restaurant in JKT called SANUR near Juanda road. Everything there tasted heavenly and refined - probably the best tasting chinese meals I had. Well, it costed us like US $100 for both of us to have lunch there which is a ridiculuous sum in JKT. Sun Jan 05 02:35:58 -0800 2003 1385393 0 Han Lukito 1 1385395 Much of the food you find in 'SG is culinary fusion from India,Malaysia,China,Thai,Indonesia etc.. which is what constitutes as cultures you'd find in 'SG. It is really hard to compare the two - SG is an city state, whereas Indonesia has islands that spread over thousands of miles with varying vegetation and culinary traditions. Good post anyway :) Sat Jan 04 22:09:38 -0800 2003 1385347 0 anil