261883 Mon Oct 07 16:15:59 -0700 2002 16 26 International 0 1383876 I'm planning one week in Italy in the spring. Where should I go, given that most of what I'll be doing is eating or various eating-like activities? I love food, food shopping, and of course eating. Osterias, gelaterias, restaurants of various types, ets. Should I stay one week in Rome, Venice or Florence? Or should I rent a car and travel, say, between Venice and Florence? Or stay in one city, but rent a car to make day trips? I don't go in for the touristy stuff in general, and am more interested in post-1900 art than pre. With this in mind, any ideas based on your experiences? Mon Oct 07 16:15:59 -0700 2002 0 michael j. 1 1383877 The best art is in Florence, but it's old stuff. The best architecture is in Rome. Venice is by far the most romantic--but are you going alone? All in all, there's more to see and do (and eat) and easier connections in Roma. Mon Oct 07 16:28:40 -0700 2002 1383876 0 mc michael 2 1383912 They're all wonderful places and despite some of the posts, any of these places are worth far more than a few days if you actually want to know them at all. Rome is my favorite city for all the reasons mentioned and just because it clicks with me. I wanted to say that each of these cities are extremely different from eachother. Taking the time to know one of these (and believe me, a week only scratches the surface in rome) will be its own experience obviously not representative of the entire country or eachother. Think about where you feel like being in the world - rome offers the most choices for eating and seeing but it's by far the busiest and biggest until you get to discover it for yourself. Crossing the street can become a life challenge.(It's amazing how easy it seems to me now after years of going there.) And florence (much art, less food variety)can be strolled through - tourist season or not, venice is great as soon as you walk two feet away from piazza san marco - then you find venetians and markets and quiet piazzas and canals - not to mention the casino. Much sleepier and probably more expensive. Add up all the information you've read and just plunge in - you'll get to all of them eventually. Wed Oct 09 13:50:22 -0700 2002 1383877 0 djk 1 1383878 While I believe that Venice is the most incredible place in the world and Rome is a close second, I would recommend Florence for a couple of reasons: 1. Living in Venice is expensive and the best food is from the sea. There are few, IMO, really good restaurants per capita. 2. Rome is a feast for the senses and is, like any metro center, exciting yet frantic. 3. Florence, the city that I know the least has several things going for it for a one week stay. It is small enough that you can walk virtually enywhere. You will become addicted to Bistecca ala Fiorentina. The nearby areas of Tuscany are very accessible by train or rental car. The chianti country is interesting as are the wonderful towns of Siena, Pienza and Montalcino to the south. Hope this helps. Ciao. Mon Oct 07 16:39:14 -0700 2002 1383876 0 Dale 1 1383879 Venice is not a food destination. I don't think in is worth more than a day or two in. I can TOLERATE pre-1900 art, but that is ALL there is in Venice and a lot of it really BORING. The mosiaic floor in the cathedral is amazing though. I would go back to Venice but only after I've been to every other place I want to visit in Italy. My impression is that the pleasure in Venice is getting away from the toursist sites and exploring some of the islands. But still no food hits. I would suggest a few days in Florence and a few days in Rome. You can always take the train between the two. Go first class in the train though. Not that it is any better, but you avoid trains packed with people and, in one trip, people carrying livestock. You can arrange with the concierge at your first destination hotel to hold your major luggage and take only what you need to get to the next city. It makes the train trip easier. Florence has wonderful markets and some of the best food I had in Italy. Besides checking out this board, just find a restaurant packed with Italians and no English menu. Point at what you want and enjoy. Although it is pre-1900, if you do one thing in Italy, in Florence see Michaelangelo's David. No picture does this piece of art justice. First of all, it is really a large statue. Secondly, IMO, it is the best piece of sculpture EVER. Ever. Rome is beautiful and there are gazillions of things to do and lots of wonderful food. It is worth spending a few days in. Lot's of nice cafes. Italy has the best coffee in the world. But my heart still belongs to Florence. Mon Oct 07 16:44:55 -0700 2002 1383876 0 Stanley Stephan 2 1383882 Venice is chock full of modern art. The first Guggenheim museum is there with rotating exhibitions. The biennale (which is a world famous art exhibition that happens every two years in odd years) alone confronts your statement about Venice also having only pre-1900 art. You could also consider the glass studios working in abstract forms in many cases to be modern art. Many contemporary artists live and exhibit their work in galleries that in residential neighborhoods. Food wise, venice has great bacaros (wine bars) serving cichetti (tapas). The bacaros are affordable. There are many good restaurants that don't cost an arm and a leg but they are far away from Piazza San Marco. Venice is really unique since it is one of the few cities were there are no cars. The time of year you go to Italy may influence where you want to go since the food specialties are better in some areas during certain times of year, e.g. spring in Rome for artichokes, chicory, etc. and fall in the north for truffles, porcinis, etc. Mon Oct 07 17:57:47 -0700 2002 1383879 0 modern art fan 3 1383893 Thanks for the tip about the Guggenheim. I did the usual tourist thing in Venice and hit all the guide book sites. I went at Carnival time which was interesting, but being winter, it wasn't all that crowded. I guess I expected more of Venice. The t-shirt shops lining the bridge of sighs really turned me off. It made the whole place seem like one big tourist trap. The hotels were less than pleasant. One of the worst experiences in Europe. The best part of Venice for me was waking up at dawn, walking through the streets and watching the city get ready for the coming day. The children and business people taking boats to school and work. The boats delivering supplies to restaurants. Tue Oct 08 00:27:23 -0700 2002 1383882 0 Stanley Stephan 4 1383895 You should give La Serenissima another try. The first time I visited right after college I hated it thinking it was nothing more than Disneyland for adults. There are some very nice hotels that are affordable in the San Paolo quarter and in the Lido. I totally understand what you felt with all the t-shirts on the "famous" bridges. Since you liked dawn and the feeling of the venetians going to work, you may want to visit in early spring or in late October/November. The biennale is in late September which you may want to check out. The most avant-garde artists from all over the world exhibit there. Some of the exhibits are pretty far out, but is is a worthwhile experience. For a more low key Venice like experience with a mind blowing fish market, check out the town of Chiogga just South of Venice. Tue Oct 08 02:34:35 -0700 2002 1383893 0 modern art fan 5 1383896 Great tips. Thanks. I'm saving them off for the future. I have planned to go back to Venice someday and explore some of the other islands. Nice to get tips from someone who really appreciates the area. Tue Oct 08 03:28:19 -0700 2002 1383895 0 Stanley Stephan 1 1383880 All three are spectacular...but different. I disagree with the person who didn't like Venice, too many people find it is a very magical place. As far as the food in Venice it is more difficult because there are quite a few touristy restaurants; BUT there is great food experiences in Venice, but it revolves around fish. As far as post 1900 art, I think Venice is the only place since it has the Peggy Guggenheim Collection That being said, I would go to 2 cities since you have not been to any. Venice & Florence or Rome & Florence. There are direct flights to either Rome or Venice and in both cases, FLorence is an easy train ride. Enjoy Mon Oct 07 17:00:05 -0700 2002 1383876 0 redwinegulper 1 1383881 I still find Rome to be the most exciting and romantic city I have ever visited. It has an unbeatable wealth of history and culture. If you are open to it. As well as being a buzzing commercial capital and world city. And great food, markets, etc as well. There are modern art exhibitions around Rome, as well as examples of modernist architecture (including stuff from the fascist days) but the real interest is in the amazing Roman - early Christian-Renaissance-Baroque remains, in churches, public monuments, museums, etc. Bernini sculptures and fountains, ancient churches with mosaics dating back 1500 years, the pantheon, a roman colonnade cropping up on the side of the Rome stock exchange,astounding churches of many eras using columns and marble scavenged from ancient rome, the statue of Marcus Aurelius on the Campidoglio (in a space designed by Michelangelo) (maybe the real one isnt there anymore), the mindbending architecture of Borromini (when you can manage to get inside his churches) the great Caravaggios in the churches (maybe the first modernist) I also think Rome, as the farthest south, would be best in Spring, though you dont say when you are going. It takes longer for spring to take hold in florence and Venice. Florence is remarkable for how much is left from its Renaissance period of greatness. Unlike rome, it is a town with a single unifying aesthetic, very perfect and lovely. If you like the renaissance style in architecture which is quite austere - I find it less likeable than the romanesque or the baroque. The taste palette of Tuscan food is rather limited, but if you like the basic ingredients - excellent meat, beans, olive oil and veg, you will like it very much.Florence is a regional and educational center in addition to being a tourist attraction so it tends to be quite busy. We visited last during Christmas season, and though the Uffizzi was less crowded than in summertime, the streets, shops and restaurants were full of people. Venice is extraordinary, with some of the best food in Italy (seafood) but it is hard to find and the good stuff is pricey - markets full of exquisite stuff, but difficulty finding places where they cook it well for you. You will either love and appreciate the place, Venice, or you will not. There is a good collection of modern art at the peggy guggenheim museum, but generally that is not what venice is about. The whole town in an amazing remnant of an earlier time, rather quiet out of season (not too many Venetians left) and very pleasant for that reason. Mon Oct 07 17:33:16 -0700 2002 1383876 0 jen kalb 1 1383883 Your post does not say if you have ever been to either Italy or any of these 3 cities before. Clearly, these three cities are all worth visiting at least once in our lives. On the other hand, you might want to give some consideration to avoiding all three of these cities on this trip. Spend a week in the Veneto without going to Venice at all! Stay in Verona and make day trips by train to Lake Garda, Vicenza, Padua, Treviso, Trento and Mantua. You could even squeeze in a day trip to Venice, if need be. Spend a week in Tuscany without visiting Florence at all! Stay in Siena or in the Tuscan countryside and visit Montalcino, Pienza, Montepulciano, Cortona and Assisi. Don't overlook Emilia-Romagna either. Bologna, Parma, Ferrara & Cremona (actually in Lombardy) are all very worthwhile cities for sightseeing and especially for eating. I think you will find these alternative destinations to be equally rewarding both culturally and gastronomically. In addition, hotels and dining are likely to be less expensive and the tourist hordes & package tours that tend to over-run Venice, Florence & Rome will be pleasantly absent! Wherever you decide to go, I recommend consluting the Slow Food Guide to the Osterias of Italy, Faith H. Willinger's "Eating in Italy", and Fred Plotkin's "Italy for the Gourmet Traveler". Mon Oct 07 19:00:04 -0700 2002 1383876 0 DavidT 1 1383887 If you are young enough to have other trips in your future, GO TO ROME for the whole week. Get Fred Plotkin's book and take the day trip he describes to Nettuno. This is the answer you are looking for. Mon Oct 07 20:10:22 -0700 2002 1383876 0 erica 1 1383904 Go to the epicurean capital of Italy - Emilia Romagna. Parmiggiano, Proscuitto, Tortellini. More salumi than you can imagine. Great markets and restaurants within the City and some of the best in the country within 90 minutes drive. See michelin guide or FW's book. Also, a lot less touristy, cheaper and less crowded. Suberb shopping. Its a college town. Florence is only 90 minutes (even less, I think) by train. As a side note to all the other posters, the request was which city to go to for FOOD - not architecture, ambiance... I know very few people who agree on which of those three cities is their favorite - they are all so different. Only downside to Bologna is wine - go to Tuscany or to Piedmont for the good stuff. But most restaurants will have adequate wine. Enjoy. Jon Tue Oct 08 13:02:54 -0700 2002 1383876 0 Jon Leventhal 2 1383905 I agree! I'm living in Bologna right now, and it's wonderful. What are some of your favorite restaurants in Bologna and the surrounding areas? Especially curious as to which places you'd call "the best in the country"....do share! Tue Oct 08 13:09:18 -0700 2002 1383904 0 dixieday 1 1384534 Italy in the Spring!!! .... ooh, you lucky thing!!! Short answer: if your preference is for a city rooted in the twentieth century ... or, put it another way, the more contemporary of the three cities, I would go for Rome. I've had two long trips to Italy, the first was a month in Florence learning Italian at the Centro Koine and staying in the spare room of a Florentine family (a wonderful experience; I loved Italy and the Italians, and they appreciated my good taste!). The centre of Florence is full of heavy buildings dating back to the medieval and renaissance eras, and I enjoyed that very much; every morning I walked from the Borgo san Frediano (where we lived) to the via dei Pandolfini (to the school), and every morning had breakfast in a different coffee shop. But after a month (and checking out different galleries, churches and piazzas), I realized that Florence was (maybe it isn't any more) a city living in the past -- visually at least, and that contemporary artists seemed to be overwhelmed by the great artists of the past. But I'm still glad that I went there, it was perfect for me at the time, and glad to have come across that great artist, Masaccio, in my preparations for the visit ... reading up on art history. On a second trip to Italy, I spent six weeks travelling around ... to the coast around Savona, to Milan, Florence and Rome; I had friends and contacts in Florence and Rome, but surprisingly my favorite city was Milan, and for no particular reason at all. But I'll give a few anyway ... Milan is or was the center of book publishing, it's the place of publication for La Stampa (a newspaper I liked), I liked the city centre, it's a much, much more polite city than is Rome, and I was not overwhelmed by its past, historic associations ... as I remember, it doesn't have that much, apart from Leonardo da Vinci's The Last Supper; but it's alert and in the now. Rome, I nearly got knocked down by a car making an overly wide turn into a quiet street on my first day there ... so that influenced me a bit! Plus, even at the best of times, when you have a green light for pedestrians, it's very hard to cross the road. However, it's a really, really beautiful city ... if you just get an ordinary bus around the city and take potluck, you will see some extraordinary sights. One recommendation: a book, Stones of Florence, Venice Observed by Mary McCarthy ... a great read, this gives the feel of two great cities. (And two art-gossip books, which date back a bit, Vasari's Lives of the Artists; Benvenuto Cellini's autobiography.) Italy also has many great writers of the twentieth century, Italo Calvino (If on a winter's night a traveller is a classic; it'a also a romance and an ode to booklovers), Primo Levi (If not now, when?), Italo Svevo (The conscience of Zeno), Alberto Moravia (The Woman of Rome)... Leonardo Sciascia (prescient on the scandals of the last decade) ... and Dacia Maraini (Bagheria, growing up in Sicily: a moving account). Link: http://www.acimi.com/mainsite/homemain.htm Mon Nov 11 19:27:12 -0800 2002 1383876 0 Sarah 1 1384541 Three things: ONE: For an honest, from-the-earth experience, consider volunteering to work on an organic farm in Italy (through the org Willing Workers on Organic Farms: email Bridget at wwoofitalia@oliveoil.net for info). You could harvest vegetables, make wine, milk sheep, slaughter pigs, gather eggs, whatever, live with a family, cook and eat with them. Nothing like it. You don't need to know Italian. TWO: The markets and pasticcerie of Sicily will blow your mind. They are vibrant, fecund, dirty, not like the exquisite gastro-temples of Modena and Bologna. Gelato is unparalleled. But Sicily is tough to get to. THREE: The exquisite gastro-temples of Modena, Bologna, and Parma are really fantastic too. The best 15 pounds you will ever gain. Plus, OPERA SEASON. I didn't like opera till I went in Parma. Don't miss the incredible, all-Emilia-Romagna wine shop housed in a castle in the town of Dozza, just east of Bologna, by train. Tue Nov 12 00:31:22 -0800 2002 1383876 0 adam