261697 Fri Aug 16 21:47:18 -0700 2002 20 26 International 0 1382895 Italian Hounds - Can you help two retired Chowhounds do 13 days of great food on a reasonable daily budget of $100-$125? Going in mid-October. How's the food in Italy? Just kidding.... Venice (3 nights), Bologna (just Lunch) in the heart of town, Florence (4 nights), Siena (1 night) in the heart of town and Roma (5 nights). We need lunches and dinners - where the locals dine - no tourist places - casual - safe areas - forget the Michelin spots - maybe next time. Thanks for any help you Hounds can provide. I'll be happy to return the favor when you come to Florida. Fri Aug 16 21:47:18 -0700 2002 0 Chuck 1 1382902 See my Rome response below for a general explanation. Venice is not an easy city to find good cheap meals in - very few locals, lots of tourists is a recipe for disaster. There are some good reccs on the Board below. Here are the two recs i sent my 16 yr old a couple of weeks ago (as I said, slim pickings on cheap food): GAM GAM - the kosher israeli place on Canareggio Canal in the "Ghetto Nuovo" - that's close to the railroad station Trattoria dai Tosi, we had pizzas there, it was a friendly place with guys having a drinking contest and big seafood plattters, all the way out in the Santa Elena district (in Castello - out past where we were staying at the Arsenale - address is Secco (dry) Marina 738 Make sure you walk around the Rialto market, preferably early in the day - buy some grapes, look at the seafood! Now for you, Chuck - dont deny yourself at least one meal of the wonderful venetian sea creatures - We had ours at Corte Sconta in Castello, not far from the Arsenale. They offer an assortment of dishes that come one after the other. A wonderful civilized way to eat. We never went on the the "main course". Search down this Board for Venice (Edit, then Find) you will see the same restaurants recommended again and again. If not Corte Sconta, try one of the others. There is a bit of food other than seafood in Venice, just remember that water creatures are what you are going there for, foodwise. Fri Aug 16 23:31:40 -0700 2002 1382895 0 jen kalb 2 1382905 Jen - Sea Creatures? You're talking to a high anal, neurotic so right away I'm worried. I know Europeans are far more willing to try "unusual" things than some of us Americanos. I remember my last visit to Italy and france, albeit 30 years ago, I saw some dudes actually pulling things off the rocks at the italian Rivera and eating them! Later, I learned they were some sort of snails or urchins. This should be very interesting. Thanks so much for your help. Sat Aug 17 09:24:50 -0700 2002 1382902 0 Chuck 2 1382928 I agree that you should check the site as there are thousands (i.e. too many) recs. for Italy. I've even ended this with one of m y own as an example. I agree with Jen that you have to be careful in Venice, Florence or Roma. I've always said you can eat anywhere in Italy (i.e. stop at any restaurant) and you will have, at worst, a good meal or at best a wonderful experience EXCEPT in those three cities. You have to avoid like the plague anything remotely touristy (and as for the menu in Japanese -run a mile). But Jen, a kosher restaurant in Italy???? What a horrible, disgusting idea! One of my messages: Sorry Antonia but you must be an American making that statement! Jen Kalb is 100% right - ITALIANS DON'T GO TO MICHELIN RESTAURANTS (that's actually an overstatement but you get the picture). Go to a 'real' Italian restaurant. They are everywhere. One I go to that is heavenly is Il Carpaccio quite near the Principo Di Savoia hotel and even nearer to the Ibis Hotel. There you just go, sit down, say ‘fish’ or ‘meat’ and wait for it!! (I know this would be unheard of in the States, it would be a gigantic rip-off, not so here, try it). The food keeps coming and coming and, because they choose, you get combinations that you would never dream off. And not expensive. Go on kid, slum it, do as the REAL Italians do. PLUS it’s a nice, Italian, romantic atmosphere to boot! Please give the ‘old man’ my regards (I’m the little, blonde, English guy that eats there every so often with a different woman – he’s Italian, he’ll remember!). Via Lazzaro Pallazzi Milano Italy +39 (02) 29405982 (Uniquely you have to dial ‘02’ for Milano (i.e. you have to dial the ‘0’). Mon Aug 19 06:29:27 -0700 2002 1382902 0 peter robertson 1 1382904 The first time I went to Florence, an experienced traveler recommended Il Pennello to us. It was a great find! This is not a touristy or overpriced place.. and the antipasto is well known for being abundant and a great deal. It's near Via Dante near the Piazza Signoria (but check.. I may be wrong). You can also find less pretentious meals on the Pitti Palace side of the river - walking back toward the east. Sat Aug 17 08:42:48 -0700 2002 1382895 0 zuriga 2 1382929 Il Pennello is really worth a try ! You will find a LOT of similar low price / high quality places in Florence, if you look outside the tourist spots. The Italians like to got out for dining, so simply look for any place with not much decoration and no four language menu ;-) Michael Mon Aug 19 07:11:39 -0700 2002 1382904 0 Michael 1 1382907 In Rome... Osteria del Antiquario, Via dei Coronari. Leave Piazza Navona headed North, make a left onto Coronari, thru the busy intersection, staying on Coronari, the restaurant on the right past the Antiques shops, in a tiny piazza. Fabulous food, get a table ouside in the courtyard near the fountain. Last time, I had veal, accompanied by the best Pinot Bianco from Schiopetto. A great neighborhood place. have fun. i'm jealous. Sat Aug 17 10:14:46 -0700 2002 1382895 0 joe santa maria 1 1382908 In Rome, Piccolo Abruzzo on Via Sicilia 237. It was Fabulous! Our hotel bartender made reservations for us there. It is near Via Venuto. Sat Aug 17 10:32:25 -0700 2002 1382895 0 sari4 1 1382913 I would encourage you to do a thorough search of the prior postings on this site as there have been numerous discussions on eating in Italy (Florence, Venice, Rome, Bologna, etc.) over the past 3-6 months. I am sure you will find many useful ideas already available on this board. I would also suggest looking thru Faith H. Willinger's book "Eating in Italy" and Fred Plotkin's book "Italy For The Gourmet Traveler". Finally, check out the websites for "Slow Food" and "Gambero Rosso". Sat Aug 17 15:39:44 -0700 2002 1382895 0 DavidT 1 1382930 We have just come back for Italy and while we got majorly "ripped-off" in Rome in 'Il Convivio' (Vicolo dei Soldati 31), we had two very enjoyable meals in Florence 1) Zibbibo - lady chef very friendly and helpful: it is definitely worth the taxi ride out of town. 2) Di Vinus, (located in Otrarno) food not quite as good but still enjoyable. Both restaurants were reasonably priced with three courses and wine at less then euro 100.00. Enjoy ! ps watch out for the cabs in Rome: make sure they have their meter on and they like to try to switch the euro20 and the euro 5 notes ie say you gave them 5 and not 20 ( both blue coloured notes). Mon Aug 19 07:46:50 -0700 2002 1382895 0 lorraine 2 1382931 di Vinus was the surprise of a trip a year ago based on a recommendation from the concierge at the Excelsior on a Sunday night. That night we were the only Americans and it was wonderful. A friend told me that on a recent visit di Vinus had a lot of tourists. Did you find this to be true also? Was one of your courses bisteca ala fiorentina? I thought their version was better than Taverna del Branzino or Sabatino's which are supposed to have the best in Florence? Did you try a taste of their house chianti? A very decent bottle for a remarkable cheap price. Did you make a reservation first or did you walk in off of the street? Mon Aug 19 08:43:06 -0700 2002 1382930 0 Joe H. 2 1382959 i took about 8 folks out for dinner at zibibbo in march 2002 it was great. fyi, the woman you refer to, is the ex-wife of owner of cibreo fyi. Tue Aug 20 22:26:49 -0700 2002 1382930 0 doc 1 1382932 In Venice I would try L'Incontro at the edge of Campo Santa Margharita in Dorsoduro. The chef is Sardinian and knows his way around beef. In Rome there is a tiny place near the Piazza Espania called Fiaschetteria Beltrami. It's on Via della Croce, a little pedestrian street paralleling Via Condotti. Try their Abbacchio Scotaditta. Also in Rome, my favorite pizzaria in the world. Pizzaria Remo in the heart of Testaccio. Take the Metro to the Piramide stop and ask anyone where it is. It's mayhem at nine pm! Mon Aug 19 09:12:36 -0700 2002 1382895 0 Dale 1 1382953 First off, I strongly agree with Jen Kalb's posting of July 30th ----- stay away from the high-end places and their trendy foods, over-rated chefs, and crazy prices. Instead patronize the traditional eating places favored by the local folks. Also as previously mentioned, avoid places with the 4-language printd menus. In MOST cases this means avoiding eating places around major tourist sites such as St. Marks Square, the Vatican, the Spanish Steps, the Forum, etc.Since all the cities you plan to visit are "walker friendly', get off the main drags and back into the neighborhood areas. It is in these areas that yo can follow the locals to the hidden treasures. Your many years spent in and around the restaurant biz surely qualfy you in sizing up a place by the printed menu, the ambiance, and the clientel entering and leaving the establishment. Although I own many, many guide books on Italy, most of my memorable dining experiences have come as a result of "winging it" and following my nose and trusting my judgement. Again, your experiences (judging from your posts to the Fla. board) give yo a leg up in experiencing the same.If sampling the local foods is a a priority in your plans, I would seriously consider dropping a day in Venice and adding one in Bologna ---- a great "walking " city and many, many inexpensive quality dining options. I love Venice for it's unique charm and always include it in my trips to Italy; but it just doesn't offer the variety and quality of food found in the rest of Italy. Too many tourists I believe.I'm sure you already have compiled a list a mile long from the Chow Hound boards and guide books, so I won't additionly burden you with my personal list of favorites. A few thoughts however ----- strongly agree with previous posters on Da Penello in Florence ----- DON'T MISS THIS ONE! Also, Vecchia Roma in the piazza Campitelli in Rome. A little more upscale (moderate to expensive) but could be a good bet for your last meal in Rome. Also the many small places around the Campo Di Fiori in Rome. In fact, the Campo should be on your itinerary for a morning stop ------ great outdoor market surrounded by restaurnts, bakeries, food wine and cheese stores, food stores, etc. Grab a cup of coffee and a pastry at the bakery on the corner, watch the locals haggle over the produce, and follow the vendors to a local place for lunch. A true picture of Rome away from the tourists ----- DON'T MISS!!!One final thought, if you and the Mrs. are "walkers", pick up the "Access Guides" to Rome, Florence, and Venice from a local book store. Undoutedly the best of the bunch when it comes to getting a "feel" for a city ----- takes you off the beaten tracks.Enjoy the trip and keep searching for "finds" in Daytona ----- always looking for new places when I come up to visit my daughter! Tue Aug 20 12:46:04 -0700 2002 1382895 0 FranT 2 1382981 FranT, I couldn't agree more. Thu Aug 22 08:59:32 -0700 2002 1382953 0 peter pumkino 1 1382954 Oops, previous post should be from FrankT not FranT. Tue Aug 20 12:48:14 -0700 2002 1382895 0 FrankT 2 1382960 Frank - Thanks so much for the time you've spent trying to help - I sincerely appreciate it and hope to return the favor, if there ever is a great place opening up in Daytona/Ormond. I have been working so hard on this trip. Yes, I have literally dozens and dozens of places already in each city. I'll try eliminating the marginal places and go with the ones people such as yourself are so positive about. The idea of going to the market in Roma is just what I love to do. that's what we loved the most about Seattle. My wife, who happens to be Italian, also loves the industry stuff, but this is a going to be different for her. She is already making a list of museums (ugh) and galleries for us to visit rather than food types of things. Hey, its her trip. Me, I'd rather spend the time in the restaurant kitchens checking out their equipment, cooking methods, and watching how these dudes perform. Thanks again for your help - "we're there" at every place you and Jen recommended. Oh, incidently, the big thing up here in Daytona/Ormond is the arrival of Panera Breads this past week. The place is packed every day and one former NY'er joked in line that its been 20 years since some of these transplants had a decent loaf of bread. You know, it was pretty good - I was very happy. Thought they were just going to take frozen raw pre-formed loaves of breads like much of Publix's. If that's what they are doing, they have sure fooled me - the sourdough loaf was excellent. Sorry to digress - thanks again Frank. Tue Aug 20 22:47:02 -0700 2002 1382954 0 Chuck 3 1382980 "My wife, who happens to be Italian, also loves the industry stuff, but this is a going to be different for her. She is already making a list of museums (ugh) and galleries for us to visit rather than food types of things." Sorry, but she's definitely NOT Italian! Was she born there? Anyway have a nice trip, the food IS great. Thu Aug 22 08:57:09 -0700 2002 1382960 0 peter pumkino 4 1382983 Mom born in Geneoa and Dad in Naples so what is she then, Jewish? Me, I know what I am - Born in the Bronx! Thanks for the kind thoughts - looking forward to some good eating..... Thu Aug 22 13:44:11 -0700 2002 1382980 0 Chuck 1 1382961 See my post on Tuscan restaurants 5/27/02 Wed Aug 21 01:14:28 -0700 2002 1382895 0 Greg 1 1382984 Have you tried a search under those place names? I posted a reply to another request for places to eat in Siena some months ago - the restaurant I mentioned is worth seeking out. Thu Aug 22 16:56:25 -0700 2002 1382895 0 Theresa