261641 Mon Jul 29 17:16:22 -0700 2002 37 26 International 0 1382573 I will be going to Rome in September and would love some recent recommendations for some Ciaolicious restaurants in Rome. I will be staying in the Piazza Navona area for 5 days. Price is not an object as it is my vacation, all I care about is good food. I already have thoughts to eat at La Pergola and La Terrazza (Hotel Eden), but that is only 2 of 12 meals during my time in Rome! I would love some additional "should not be missed rec's" along with any Trattorias, Enotecas, Pizzerias. (One thing, I will arrive on Sat morning and will be staying until Wednesday morning, it seems that many restaurants are closed on Sunday & Monday) Rome only please!! I have compiled an extensive list for Tuscany & other areas that I will be visiting. Mon Jul 29 17:16:22 -0700 2002 0 villagechow 1 1382574 You can get a good Tartufo (ice cream) on the Piazza Navona. For seafood, La Rosetta. For Sardinian food, Il Drapo. Mon Jul 29 18:05:55 -0700 2002 1382573 0 mc michael 2 1382589 Check www.epicurious.com, Rome is latest city reviewed, reviews look delicious. Link: http://www.epicurious.com Tue Jul 30 06:23:40 -0700 2002 1382574 0 Adrian 1 1382575 SANS SOUCI--A relic of the "La Dolce Vita" days and still holding its own superbly. Be sure to order the Tarte Tatin with Flaming Calvados for dessert. VECCHIA ROMA--delectable seafood (the turbot and oh, that broccoli sauce!) AGATA E ROMEO--superbly inventive "modern" cooking (N.B. This place is in a somewhat funky part of town) AL "34"--very popular trattoria with an extensive menu,emphasizing pastas and seafood (we ate here on more than one occasion during our stay) SORA LELLA--authentic home-made cooking (gnocchi, chickpea-clam-pasta soup) in a restaurant situated on an island in the Tiber May I also recommend two bars for your Happy Hour? The tiny, marble oasis in the Ingleterre Hotel (near the Spanish steps) and the Bramante,located on the beautifully-lit Via di Coronari. Finally, a caveat: If you're making dinner reservations from the States, be sure to get confirmations IN WRITING via e-mail or fax and BRING THEM WITH YOU. On one occasion, a restaurant claimed not to have a reservation in our name. They refused to seat us till we presented the e-mail confirmation for their consideration. At which point, they quickly (if grudgingly) seated us and saddled us with a waitress who didn't crack a smile the entire evening. However, the superb meal more than made up for the sullen service. Have fun! Mon Jul 29 19:38:39 -0700 2002 1382573 0 scottsimms600 1 1382577 Several suggestions: 1) It would be worth your while to scroll/search thru this board as there have been numerous postings on Rome dining over the past 3-6 months. 2) I believe you can buy the English language version of the Gambero Rosso guide to Rome thru their website: "www.gamberorosso.it" It is worth having. 3) You might also want to pick up a copy of the current issue (#31) of the Gambero Rosso magazine. I got my English language copy in today's mail here in San Francisco. There are articles on Rome's best restaurants, wine bars, wine shops, bakeries, etc. I do see this magazine for sale at the better bookstores in this area. Don't know about where you live. Good luck and have a great trip! Mon Jul 29 19:54:13 -0700 2002 1382573 0 DavidT 2 1382596 Thanks for the suggestions. 1) I have done searches on this board, but the Rome recommendations were few and far between and most of the posts were old and mixed in with a lot of Venice, Tuscany, etc. rec's. 2) I have the Gamberro Rosso book on the way, and have been already checked out the Gamberro Rosso website several times but it is nice to get recommendations from those who have just returned. Thanks for the help! Tue Jul 30 09:46:25 -0700 2002 1382577 0 villagechow 3 1382610 Sorry to beat my favorite horse, but there are two ways of going about food tourism. Either you are looking for the best local food and a taste of the local culture or you are looking for the "top rated" cutting edge and mostly chef-dependent restaurants. For the prior category, the recs are not going to change that much in 6 months or a year or 5 years even; they are mostly family owned and operated and as long as the family is around, the restaurant will be reliable. I have to say that in Rome, our worst experiences have been in ritzier restaurants the best have been in traditional restaurants, pizzerias and trattorias patronized primaily by Romans. I hope that you will look well beyond the elegant hotel dining rooms etc. during your trip. Many such places have been reported on if you cull through the prior posts. And you will find them toward the bottom of the the elegance and price scale in your published guides. Good eating, and I hope you post back re your experiences! Tue Jul 30 15:04:46 -0700 2002 1382596 0 jen kalb 4 1382611 Thanks for the advice. I guess I want to get a taste of both the fancy places & the lesser known not so fancy places. Unfortunately I'll be in Rome for only 5 days and will not be able to hit even a small fraction of the restaurants, but I want to increase my chances of having excellent meals whether they are haute cuisine or a simple slice of pizza. Hopefully I'll be able to discover a couple of gems on my own as well! I'll definitely report back. Tue Jul 30 15:20:25 -0700 2002 1382610 0 villagechow 5 1382665 I posted a few very favorite neighborhood places on 5/15 - just scroll down a little bit. Sorry I don't know how to do a link. Fri Aug 02 01:28:14 -0700 2002 1382611 0 djk 4 1382897 After reading all this negative stuff on Rome's restaurants, I'm reconsidering how we've planned our trip.. The food is most important. Right now we've devoted 3 days in Venice, only a lunch in Bologna, 4 days in Florence, one day in Siena, and 5 days in Rome. Should we devote an overnight stay in Bologna and cut out a day in Rome? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated. Fri Aug 16 22:33:13 -0700 2002 1382610 0 Chuck 5 1382903 Rome is the capital - there are fine middle class restaurants there, not just the ones everybody talks about that cost the earth - and there is really no place that matches it touristically. From the museums to the extraordinary churches of all periods to the roman remains, to the look of the older parts of the city itself (though radically cleaned up for the millenium) it is wonderful. Much more interesting than Florence or Venice IMO. And there is lots of great food. I have recommended a few places; the sit down restaurants are all civilized. Rome is an extraordinarily civilized city and even in simple trattorias the waiters serve with pride and professionalism. Another one is La Campana on, I think, Via della campanna, just off the corso near the River and the Piazza Spagna district. Others will recommend more. Dont be discouraged, truly. Temperatures cool off in October in Italy, it should be breezy and comfortable in Rome at that time. Sat Aug 17 00:06:41 -0700 2002 1382897 0 jen kalb 3 1382612 Another valuable resource is the La Guida d'Italia website which similarly assigns numerical ratings to the food. In combination with Gambero Rosso and Michelin you will have covered all bases. Tue Jul 30 17:10:39 -0700 2002 1382596 0 Joe H. 3 1382618 While you are at it, you should also have a look thru the Rome pages of Fred Plotkin's "Italy for the Gourmet Traveler". Granted, some of the info is a bit dated (about 6 years old), but you may get some worthwhile info about bars, cafes, markets, food & wine shops, etc. Tue Jul 30 22:27:03 -0700 2002 1382596 0 DavidT 1 1382588 Having just returned from Rome, I can make two fabulous suggestions: 1. Go for a late, but light, dinner at La Rosetta. The thing to get here is the Gran Misto di Antipasti, which is a selection of raw, marinated or gently cooked seafood of all kinds. They are taste size portions, but you get about 12 dishes on two separate plates. Eating this was one of the truly extraordinary dining experiences of my life. The problem is that nothing else quite matches this course on the balance of the menu (which is unbelievably expensive -- think $30 for an average pasta dish). So my suggestion is order the gran misto for two (assuming your party will be a couple), a great bottle of wine, dessert and coffee and enjoy! 2. Agata e Romeo. Maybe the best restaurant in town. The food is fab, the wine list is incredible and extremely well priced (bottles that go for $80 in NY sell for $25 on the list, and those that go for $400 are on the list for $125). If you ever wanted a Sperss -- this is the place to get it. It is in a very unsavory part of town, so take a taxi to and fro. The Time Out Rome guide had some good suggestions, but note that their opening and closing information is not accurate. Tue Jul 30 05:18:56 -0700 2002 1382573 0 Mogsob 2 1382597 Thanks for the suggestions. I'm definitely putting Agata e Romeo on the list. Not only is it rated highly in all the right guides Gambero Rosso etc., I now have some personal rec's from chowhounds as well! Question: How far in advance did you have to make reservations for both of these restaurants? Is there a dress code at either of these restaurants? (would my husband wear a suit w/ tie?) Thanks for your help. Tue Jul 30 09:52:21 -0700 2002 1382588 0 villagechow 3 1382599 I have to say that the better meal was at La Rosetta. I cannot recommend the gran misto enough. Let's just say that my wife does not eat shellfish, but she did there -- and with great gusto. I would describe the dress code as smart casual. I would wear a jacket, but no tie. There was a mix of dress going on, but I find that wearing a jacket helps with the service. Tue Jul 30 11:07:00 -0700 2002 1382597 0 Mogsob 2 1382663 I really liked their spaghetti pescatore and the shrimp scampi. Really, really liked them. Fri Aug 02 00:27:47 -0700 2002 1382588 0 djk 1 1382600 If you are staying near Piazza Navona, you must have lunch, or at least a snack, at Vini e Olii, a hole in the wall on Via del Governo Vecchio, not far from the Baffetto pizzeria. The owner Silvano pulls fresh, piping hot pizza bianca six feet long from a great old wood burning forno in the back, slices them down the middle, and makes incredible sandwiches with prosciutto, mortadella, salami, rughetta, tomatoes, all manner of cheeses (mozzarella, gorgonzola, caciotta, parmigiano, etc), and various vegetables. The place is always packed and chaotic, but is not to be missed. If price is no object, get a car or a taxi to take you to the Castelli Romani and have dinner in Frascati (at Cacciani) or in Grotaferrata (at Il Fico Vecchio). The food is great at both places. Il Fico has a better atmosphere, but you will have more fun strolling around Frascati. Finally, a plug for the best undiscovered gelato in Rome - Gelateria Duse on Via Eleonora Duse, in Parioli, just north of Piazza Ungheria. Get a cup of the mixed fruit flavors. Tue Jul 30 11:23:57 -0700 2002 1382573 0 Jeremy M 1 1382607 I would love to see your Tuscany list? Tue Jul 30 13:16:38 -0700 2002 1382573 0 ham 2 1382625 Hi, I haven't completed the Tuscany list, but here are some that I am considering. We are staying near Siena in a villa so will probably only be going to Florence for 1-2 days, with some meals at home as well. These are some that we're considering: -Poggio Rosso at Borgo San Felice (Siena) -Poggio Antico (Montalcino) -Arnolfo (Siena) -Le Logge (Siena) -Enoteca Pinchiorri (Florence) - this is only if I'm not feeling too poor by this point in the trip! -Cibreo (Florence) maybe for lunch -Beccofino (sp?) I'm leaving lots of options open as there will be several seasoned Italy travelers in our group by that time! Wed Jul 31 09:36:44 -0700 2002 1382607 0 villagechow 3 1382626 I went to Arnolfo last fall and had mixed feelings. The food was quite good, and the atmosphere nice enough, but the service was at best indifferent. It was a pleasant meal, to be sure, but not a truly memorable one. If you go, make sure that they seat you in the main dining room, and not in the nondescript room off to the side. Also, if you are staying in Siena, be aware that Arnolfo is in Colle di Val D'Elsa, about 15-20 minutes from Siena by car. If your dining slots are limited, I would go to La Tenda Rossa in Cerbaia (just outside Florence) rather than Arnolfo. There, the daughter of the owner/chef walked us through every detail of every ingredient of the meal, from the lardo di greve to lentils from castelluccio. Wed Jul 31 10:22:33 -0700 2002 1382625 0 Jeremy M 4 1382628 Jeremy, Thanks for the rec & your previous Rome rec. They were duly noted. I was thinking of La Tenda Rosso as well, I'll definitely keep it in mind. Wed Jul 31 11:39:22 -0700 2002 1382626 0 villagechow 5 1382637 I thought those two restaurants were way better than the higher rated Arnolfo and Enoteca Pinchiorri. Bottega Nuova is just outside of Siena. Wed Jul 31 21:13:28 -0700 2002 1382628 0 vlibin 3 1382633 okay here's a few more C'era una volta in Lucardo near Montespertoli one of the nicest places to eat in Chianti with a small terrace with a stunning view although I prefer inside.Pasta's stand out. Locanda Borgo Antico in Lucolena high above Greve. I'm not as a big a fan as some but it is good and definitely worth a visit. Mammarosa near San Casciano.Surprisingly good meals here. Fantastic squid stew Wed Jul 31 15:20:06 -0700 2002 1382625 0 ham 3 1382634 You will be well served if you are feeling "too poor" to go Enoteca Pinchiorri. It is famous for its extensive and expensive wine list, but the food is usually criticized for being "international" rather than Italian and for having small portions. People I know who have been there have regretted their decision. Go to Alle Murate instead if you need a high priced dinner..... Jim Zurer Washington DC Wed Jul 31 15:54:05 -0700 2002 1382625 0 Jim Zurer 4 1382662 I second that. So not worth it. Not with all that great food so nearby... Fri Aug 02 00:22:27 -0700 2002 1382634 0 djk 1 1382614 I hope this isn't a repeat...but I don't have time tonight to read all the replies. Don't miss Agate e Romeo. It was my favorite meal in Rome, and it's superb. The neighborhood seemed a bit odd for such an upscale place, and I'm glad we traveled by cab. Tue Jul 30 19:24:43 -0700 2002 1382573 0 zuriga 1 1382616 Highly recommend Quinzi Gabrieli for top notch seafood and La Rosetta. Both excellent, but I found Quinzi to be a bit more refind in terms of taste and presentation. They are equally priced. Cecchino is fantastic for typical Roman fare such as Codda and other traditional offal. Finally, there are some great eats in the Ghetto such as Piperno and Da Gighetto. Tue Jul 30 20:29:06 -0700 2002 1382573 0 vlibin 1 1382631 Having been to Rome twice in the past year, my experience is that it is the WORST dining city in Italy. None of the meals were great, so if you go expecting culinary nirvana, expect to be disappointed. However, there are some decent places to eat: Nino: Good, solid tuscan fare. A little pricey/touristy. Al 34: Nice, lively atmosphere. Mediocre wine list, decent food. Touristy. PizzaRe: Very popular, don't know why. Neopolitan pizzas were pretty bland. Da Cesare: We had great meals (Tuscan, esp. seafood) last year, however recently the food was worse and the service a bit rude. Off Piazza Cavour. Ditrambo: Ok food, great wine list. Gighetto: I don't like Jewish Roman food. But apparently its good for the style. Sitting outside was nice, though. Gelato at Crispino and Giolitti are great. As is coffee at Saint Eustacio. BTW, regarding Tuscany, try Cibreo trattoria. Restaurant has attitude problem and serves same food for triple the price. Jon Wed Jul 31 14:24:34 -0700 2002 1382573 0 Jon Leventhal 2 1382640 With that list, I'm not surprised you came away with that impression. Rome does three things well: (1) seafood, (2) offal, and (3) pizza, although there are fewer and fewer great places as Roman pizza is rarer these days. Trying to find great Tuscan food in Rome is like looking for BBQ in NYC. Thu Aug 01 06:21:29 -0700 2002 1382631 0 Mogsob 3 1382642 I believe the best pizza in Rome is to be found at Pizzaria Remo in the middle of Testaccio. Take the Metro to Piramide and walk west into Testaccio. Ask anyone on the street for directions. This cavernous place ROCKS in the evening. The thin crust Margharita is memorable. Thu Aug 01 09:29:51 -0700 2002 1382640 0 Dale 3 1382645 Mogsob - Maybe La Rosetta and Agata e Romeo are terrific, however for the $150+ per couple they better be. I've had terrific meals throughout Italy for under $50 pp. Not in Rome, however. I'm wondering why you question my list. The restaurants are recommended by Gambero Rosso, Michelin and Fant's book on Trattorias among others. Jon Thu Aug 01 11:01:50 -0700 2002 1382640 0 Jon Leventhal 4 1382649 Well, Jon, you were the one who questioned your list by proclaiming that Rome is the worst dining city in Italy based on those restaurants. Certainly there are fine restaurants at a lower cost than A&V or La Rosetta. The point is that Italian cuisine, if not culture, is very regional. Your list, Gambero Rosso's blessing notwithstanding, is utterly devoid of a true Roman restaurant (of which there are plenty). If you want Tuscan food, go to Tuscany. Perhaps on your next trip you can follow the age-old advice: When in Rome . . . Thu Aug 01 12:42:52 -0700 2002 1382645 0 Mogsob 2 1382896 Oh my - Jon? What's the dillo on Rome? You have us concerned big time. Purposely devoted an extra day on our 14 day food journey through Italy. Does not sound good...Then again, we're transplanted NY'ers, living in So Florida for the past 20 years - Everything is relative. Fri Aug 16 22:02:25 -0700 2002 1382631 0 Chuck 3 1382898 Here are a few reccs from our experiences in Rome, most recently 2 years ago. They are at the budget end of the spectrum, since I threw most of them together a couple weeks ago for my 16 yr. old daughter travelling through there - the "you's" refer to her in 12/99 when our family last visited. I would also like to comment that after buying and reading every imaginable food guide including SlowFood, Gambero Rosso, etc. Plotkin Willinger (the last two very highly reccomended) and copying out pages from all, we relied very heavily on Cheap Easts by Sandra Gustafson for the last trip and had very good luck with the picks. It covers Venice Rome and Florence only, which is about right. Its small enough to carry without breaking your back. And is nicely laid out with maps so you can find places convenient to your itinerary. Look for a fresh edition, some of the "discoveries" in these books can go into a sharp decline as touristic hordes drive out locals. The most touristically impacted neighborhoods are the worst - around the Vatican, for example, is a terrible place to look for lunch. San Marco ditto. Here are some of the reccs I gave my daughter:In Testaccio - I shopped at the sausage/cheese Volpetti store right on the Via Marmorata (where the trams and buses run) a lot. Next door to it on the side street Via Alessandro Volta, 8/10 is Volpetti Piu (more), which is a deli and self serve restraurant. Probably best at lunchtime looked tired at dinner, most food sold by the "etti" - piazza bianca, daily dishes and cheeses. There are a number of other highly recommended restaurants in the Testacchio district including the most famous Dal Checchino 1887 (?), which is not particularly touristic, it was build too late - however still a living Roman neighborhood with a market,butcher shops, a couple fine bakeries, street life, etc. In the Jewish Quarter (old rome, walking distance from forum), we ate lunch at a restaurant called Al Pompiere -Via D. Maria dei Calderari 38 open Mon-Sat it is upstairs in an old palace and quite fancy but they have a menu turistico (YOU HAVE TO ASK SPECIFICALLY) at lunch only. the meats were really, really good, I think you had steak - perhaps I had oxtail, this is one of the Roman restaurant that has dishes on regular weekly days (baccala on Friday, etc), gnocci on Thursday or whatever)either buy by the course or take the full menu turistico meal. The little trattoria at Via Terme di Tito (near the colliseum and forum) is called Ostaria da Nerone 96 - daily specials including gnocci on Thursday - I think I had great oxtail (coda di vaccinara) there , a great Roman dish. The restaurant has staying power - it was described in Georgina Masson's great Companion Guide to Rome, surely one of the best city guides around more than 30 years ago, and we first went there in "81. Still just as good 20 yrs later. Tri Arche di Loreto - at Via dei Coronari 233 - a little tratteria simple dishes, cheap prices- we had a nice meal there on our visit in 1999. In the same area - the restaurant at 80 Via del Orso - think its called Ottanta d'Orso - was "a little pizzeria" in Masson's book, excellent pastas and other dishes in 81, upscaled since then, still recommended, I believe in Gustafson's book. Lilli - at Via Tor di Nona 26 - near the above -and right near the Tiber bridge - Ponti dei Angeli that you cross to go over the river toward the Vatican- we tried to go there twice but it was closed for Christmas holidays. Note: my daughter and her friend tried to go last week and it was CLOSED AGAIN. Supposedly a good, cheap family restaurant with good pastas including vongole (with clams) arrabiata (spicey red tomato sauce, a popular dish in Rome. In the Campo di Fiori (old Rome toward the Tiber)- a market square, go to the baker "Il Forno di Campo di Fiori 22; people stand in line for the great focaccia (PIzza bianco e rossa - red and white- and breads. I think pizza , like fruit, is often ordered by "etti" - about cinque etti would be a pound, I suppose. You can just ask for a piece show size with your hands etc. I stopped there during one of our walks and brought it home to the apt in Testaccio. Probably even better eaten there in the square. In the morning there is an excellent fruit and veg market in that same square - this is the season for peaches and GRAPES. Yum. The coffee house near the Pantheon is called La Casa del Caffe-Tazza d'Oro, on Via dei Orfani 84 (closed Sunday) - have the granita di caffe with the whipped cream Also Sant' Eustachio Il Caffe, Piazza Sant'Eustachio 82 (nr Pantheon) closed Monday - also fine granita di caffe Another coffee bar - Bar Marco Polo, Largo Santa Susanna 108 (nr Piazza della Repubblica) - cornetti, coconut pastry are specialties Go to a coffee bar in the morning for a caffe latte and cornetti - start your day right. They are all over the place. Once again, stand up . Many of these small bars also sell panini (small sandwiches) and "toasts" - grilled sandwiches, wonderful for a snack as you are walking around. Ice Cream: Giolitti on Via Uffici del Vicario 40 (in central Rome near the Piazza Colonna and Via del Corso, closed Monday - rec from a Chowhound post- Finally, a plug for the best undiscovered gelato in Rome - Gelateria Duse on Via Eleonora Duse, in Parioli, just north of Piazza Ungheria. Get a cup of the mixed fruit flavors Pizza: a RECENT CHOWHOUND POST ON A PIZZERIA IN TESTACCIO : I believe the best pizza in Rome is to be found at Pizzaria Remo in the middle of Testaccio. Take the Metro to Piramide and walk west into Testaccio. Ask anyone on the street for directions. This cavernous place ROCKS in the evening. The thin crust Margharita is memorable. Pizza bianco again (from Chowhound):: If you are staying near Piazza Navona, you must have lunch, or at least a snack, at Vini e Olii, a hole in the wall on Via del Governo Vecchio, not far from the Baffetto pizzeria. The owner Silvano pulls fresh, piping hot pizza bianca six feet long from a great old wood burning forno in the back, slices them down the middle, and makes incredible sandwiches with prosciutto, mortadella, salami, rughetta, tomatoes, all manner of cheeses (mozzarella, gorgonzola, caciotta, parmigiano, etc), and various vegetables. The place is always packed and chaotic, but is not to be missed. Here is the address for the Pizza place (Bafetto) he mentions: Da Baffeto - Via del Governo Vecchio 114 /tel. 06-686-1617 If you decide to visit the appian way - an amazing walk through lovely scenery - there is a good restaurant/country inn along it-just before the most scenic stretch begins. Just the place for a leisurely Sunday lunch. Fri Aug 16 23:18:25 -0700 2002 1382896 0 jen kalb 4 1382906 Jen - I owe you big time - Thanks so much for your time in helping us. I do likewise on the Florida page - Its one of the great joys of life, in my opinion, to help others enjoy resonable independently owned places that you've found. Its what chowhound.com is all about. It also recognizes people who are doing terrific jobs at their restaurants and need our support. Nothing against chains but the really creative people are out on their own in most cases. Anyway, thanks again and if I can ever help in Florida, don't hesitate to contact me. Sat Aug 17 09:37:45 -0700 2002 1382898 0 Chuck 1 1382641 Thank you all for your rec's. I won't be going for a month yet, so keep them coming. I will be sure to report back when I return! Thu Aug 01 09:25:26 -0700 2002 1382573 0 villagechow 1 1382657 If you can't get into Agata e Romeo (which is very good, but very $$$), try Trattoria Monti, a much more modest place just down the street. The specialty is food from the Marche region--they have fabulous homemade ravioli. Plus, the waiters are very cute. If you want to eat some great Bolognese food (and you should; it's the best type of food in Italy), try Colline Emiliane. Excellent pumpkin ravioli! Thu Aug 01 18:00:04 -0700 2002 1382573 0 Anna