24564 Thu Jun 12 23:07:17 -0700 2003 17 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 96150 Send in the Hounds - or - A fine Chinese food and Austrian wine experience Tuesday, a group of 20 Chowhounds gathered at Seafood Harbor in Millbrae, for an evening of fine Cantonese seafood and Austrian Grüner Veltliner. The idea was to look for good food-wine matches, but I have to admit that I got caught up enjoying the great conversation, great food, and great wine, and forgot to look for synergy. For the non wine-geeks reading this, Grüner Veltliner (pronounced GROON-er FVELT-LEEN-er) is the name of a grape, grown exclusively, or nearly so, in Austria, where it is used to makes a fine white wine with the excellent acids and strong mineral flavors typical of the region's renowned whites. The flavor of the grape is distinctive. Some simple unwooded-Chardonnay-like tones, some Pinot Gris-like upfront melony fruitiness, and some funky grassy elements, like in a Sancerre (this last insight was new to me, and comes courtesy of the sommelier (ess?) at Bacar, who selected and obtained the wines for the evening). The wine ages slowly, but starts developing savory aged elements at 5-8 years of age, making it even more interesting. The selection could hardly have been better. My two favorite producers, Brundlmayer and Nigl, were well-represented, and there was even a Nikolaihof, the biodynamic producer whose wines inspire worship from some. I'll describe the wines first, then get to the food, so as not to clutter the food descriptions for those of you who are not (yet?) into wine. They're all Grüner Veltliner, so I won't repeat that. 2001 Nikolaihof Hefeabxug-Wachau. Delicate, floral nose, with underlying stone and bright, pretty fruit. A touch of (presumably old) wood on the palate, tangy, with fruit that is simultaneously extensive and austere. Tons of acid, long, then goes just a bit watery on the finish. Still, awfully nice. VERY GOOD 2001 Zull Schrattenthal-Sechs Viertel. Sparkly, stony, with some light (probably old) woodiness, a bit more than on the Nikolaihof. On palate, forward, some bitterness, tangy fruit dried by dominating minerals on the finish, with plenty of acid to carry things along. VERY GOOD MINUS. 2002 Salomon 'Undhof Wieden', Krems-Stein. Very austere and angular, super stony. Restrained fruit but very deep and full. This one got to me, the combination of a super-refreshing wine with such impressive depth was a winner on my palate. EXCELLENT 2002 Schloss Gobelsburg, Steinsetz, Langenlois. Not too appealing to me on the nose. I think there's too much oak for me, and it blurs the usually appealing precision of the Austrian wine profile, hiding the minerals and muddling the experience. On the palate, diffuse and a touch bitter with hard alcohol, nondescript. Unfortunate. FAIR PLUS 2001 Nigl "Privat" Ernte, Kremstal. Too cold at first, and not showing much, but when I went back to it, wow. Rich and glassy on the nose, like the 2001 German Mosel wines, that sense of so much restrained power in the fruit. Very full and thick on the palate, with a sweet attack slowly giving way to strong drying minerals on a long, satisfying finish. EXCELLENT 1999 E.U.M. Berger, Gedersdorfer Gebling, Kremstal. Didn't like this one. Oxidized and weird. Second bottle was the same. FAIR MINUS 2000 Brundlmayer 'Alte Reben', Kamptal. 'Alte Reben' means "Old Vines," and it shows. Very pure, stony, tasty wine, with that Trimbach-like sense that having powerful, deep fruit doesn't mean that you have to be over the top and out front with it. Quite the contrary. Restraint makes you come to the wine instead of vice versa, and it's a rewarding journey. EXCELLENT MINUS 1998 Nigl 'Senftenberger-Piri'. Now, this is what happens with some age, when you start with a wine from a good vintage and a stunningly good producer. Same rich GV fruit, but suffused with savory subtleties and the kind of sweetness that can only come from age. An almost green-olive component, just a touch of caramel, and through the middle of that wonderful aged fruit runs a big stony backbone, which asserts itself on a long, memorable finish. EXCELLENT PLUS 2001 Schloss Gobelsberg Eiswein (!) My first GV Eiswein, and it's a winner. None of the massive oak that afflicts too many Austrian dessert wines (Kracher, most egregiously). Astonishingly intense and beautiful, rich and thick but well-balanced with acid, tons of botrytis; not enough to obscure the GV characteristics, but probably enough that I couldn't have identified the grape blind (if you haven't tried this with botrytis affected wines, it's harder than you think). Long, long, long finish. Wow. EXCELLENT PLUS Okay, I've babbled enough about wine. Now I'll babble about food. It was very babble-worthy. House special cold appetizers. A great lineup. Superb jellyfish, perfect texture, perfect tangy sesame dressing (EXCELLENT). Dark, tasty seaweed with lighter green translucent threads that I don't know what they were, but they took the overbrooding edge off the seaweed. Yum (VERY GOOD PLUS). And some amazing almost-crunchy little red octopi with a great dried-seafood texture. I want a bowl of these things the next time I watch a baseball game. (EXCELLENT PLUS). Layered dried bean curd things, not much flavor, but fun to bite (VERY GOOD). Stewed beef tendon the part that's mostly shin-like meat, very well executed, chewy for a long time with full flavor all the way. EXCELLENT MINUS Sauteed sugar snap peas with fresh scallop and dried conch A really nice grouping of contrasting flavors and textures, super-tasty. VERY GOOD PLUS Crispy fried milk with crystal prawns Oh, yum. The prawns were simple and tasty, but what really stole my heart was those breaded blobs with sweet, light-green from honeydew, custard inside. Something like the perfect custard donut could only dream of being. EXCELLENT Geoduck clams with yellow chives Soft, almost sweet, savory, and delicious. A touch better than the version we had a Great Eastern. EXCELLENT MINUS Salt and pepper style clam bellies with crispy tofu cubes A terrific plate of crunchy texture food, not tons of flavor from either the flat pieces of breaded geoduck, or especially the little dice-sized tofu cubes, but both had perfect crunch. Great party snacks. EXCELLENT MINUS Roasted chicken The flesh was just a bit too cooked for my tastes, but the skin was wonderful, if a touch too salty, and I found myself poking around the leftovers for the most dark-caramelized bits of skin. GOOD PLUS Braised sliced fresh abalone and black mushrooms with tender greens Hmmm, where are my notes. In any case, this was a delicious combination of textures - the sink-your-teeth-in-like-a-dead-weight of the abalone, the silky bite of the dried mushrooms, and the fresh tender crunch of the green veggie, which was that thing that Is shaped like bok choy but is all green. Baked lobster with ginger and green onion This was not bad, but probably not what it should have been. Hard to put my finger on why -- nothing really wrong with it, but how often does the lobster plate go around, then the leftovers go begging? Tasty and savory, but not vibrant. GOOD Smoked filet of black cod A remarkable, red-caramelized, thick hunk of fish, with a tender, weighty chew and lots and lots of flavor. Didn't really taste smoked, but very nice. EXCELLENT MINUS Braised yee-fu noodles Didn't really grab me. A bit too soft, and tasted to me like canned mushrooms. FAIR Dessert of the day A bowl of dessert soup, probably sesame, sweet, with balls of tapioca (or sago, never can tell them apart). Delicious. EXCELLENT Bottom line: great company, fantastic food and fantastic wine. I'd definitely return to the restaurant, and I've definitely gotten a reminder that I need to have more Grüner Veltliner in my cellar. Thanks to the organizers! -- Bryan Thu Jun 12 23:07:17 -0700 2003 0 Bryan Loofbourrow 1 96185 Nice report Bryan. I guess our table got lucky with the chicken since it was still redish pink by the bones and very juicy, definitely not overcooked. A note regarding the 1999 E.U.M. Berger, Gedersdorfer Gebling, Kremstal. When I asked Shelley about the seemingly off character of the wine. She mentioned that the wine maker allows some botrytis on the grapes. Therefore, that oxydized character is something the wine maker intended rather than it being a defective bottle. Whether it succeeds is a whole other matter. It drank better matched to the mustard greens with abalone than on its own that is for sure. Great meeting everyone who was there and a big thank you to Melanie for finding the location and selecting the menu. Fri Jun 13 13:09:33 -0700 2003 96150 0 Victoria Libin 2 96186 Victoria, Re: the 1999 E.U.M. Berger. ::She mentioned that the wine maker allows some botrytis on the grapes. Therefore, that oxydized character is something the wine maker intended rather than it being a defective bottle. :: I have a couple of points here. First, I agree that oxidation is not necessarily a bad thing, though it is certainly off-style for these wines. However, the character I got was metallic and "off," by which I mean not corked, but rather a couple of the sort of off flavors and aromas that I found in my beer when I was doing my unsuccessful tries at homebrewing. Second, I agree that it was not an "off bottle." I got the same character in both bottles. Third, I see no necessary relationship between botrytis and that level of oxidation. The Eiswein, in fact, is a case in point -- it was profoundly affected by botrytis, yet had no significant oxidative character. :: Whether it succeeds is a whole other matter. :: Yep, that's the bottom line. If it works, it just carves out a new niche for the style. Not this time, at least not for my palate. It was great to meet you on Tuesday. I enjoyed our conversation at the end of the evening. -- Bryan Fri Jun 13 13:44:11 -0700 2003 96185 0 Bryan Loofbourrow 1 96187 I think this is an excellent summary of the tasting and of the food. I don't know how you kept your wits about you enough to do such a good job. The only ammendments I would make is that I found the 2001 Nigl to be the outstanding wine in the tasting. It was superb with the cod which had a smoky flavor. I was less impressed with the food overall, finding much of it so laden with sodium that it's still in my system. Fri Jun 13 13:44:26 -0700 2003 96150 0 Greg 1 96304 Glad you enjoyed the meal, wines, and restaurant so much, Bryan. Babble? Humbug! Thanks for writing up the evening and sharing its splendor. Millicent had asked how I’d chosen Seafood Harbor for this dinner. I had stopped by five different Hong Kong seafood specialists in Millbrae to eyeball them again and pick up banquet menus. Seafood Harbor has been a family favorite and offered the most interesting items (e.g., fried milk) and value of the many set menus I reviewed for our price range. The kitchen has been pretty consistent over the years, whereas Fook Yuen and Hong Kong Flower Lounge have had their ups and downs. Also, I was hoping that on a week night we might have the side room to ourselves, which we did. Seafood Harbor gets less attention than either FY or HKFL and I wanted to let ‘hounds in on how good this place can be. I found the cold appetizer plate uncommonly good too. Jellyfish can be hit or miss, and too often miss. We lucked out this time with just the right crunch, toothsomeness and nuanced seasoning. The various shades and textures of green in the seaweed salad were different varieties of seaweed. This type of seaweed salad and the marinated barbecued octopi can usually be purchased in Japanese markets. The layered bean curd roll with black mushroom in the center was vegetarian goose. It was less firm than it should be, but had a nice smoky note. The beef shank had plenty of tendon pieces and five-spice flavor. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/coldapp.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:34:33 -0700 2003 96150 0 Melanie Wong 2 96305 I liked this dish a bit more than you did. I requested sugar snap peas as the accompanying vegetable to echo the sweet pea flavors of Grüner Veltliner and it was just the right pairing for the Nikolaihof. The scallops were oh so tender and juicy. While we had ordered dried conch, this was the most tender and sweet conch I’ve had at a Chinese restaurant, so I’m thinking it was actually fresh rather than dried. The conch had a lovely silky texture. The sauce was a little gummy, but that’s my only negative on this delicate and light stir-fry. As you can see from the finely filigreed garnish on the plate, the kitchen does beautiful knife work. The white scallion sections and the peeled young ginger diamond-shaped slices were just so – great attention to detail. The tenderness of the conch shows the skill in cutting across the grain of this tough mollusk and split-second timing in the wok. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/conchscal.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:40:20 -0700 2003 96304 0 Melanie Wong 3 96306 To me, this seemed more like two separate dishes combined on one plate. The prawns had great clarity of flavor and just a bit of scallion and ginger nuance. The fried custard fritters, dipped in sugar at the table, were mysteriously tinged with green inside. We hypothesized some tropical ingredient, until the manager told us that these had honeydew melon in the custard. Still, my friend Peter insisted that he tasted coconut in the blend and that DNA testing would prove him right. (g) While the two parts of this course were separate, they came into harmony with the Salomon which had youthful melon fruit with notes of white pepper and green herbs. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/friedmilk.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:41:49 -0700 2003 96305 0 Melanie Wong 4 96307 The kitchen’s handling of the geoduck cooked two ways was especially impressive. I’ve paid a lot of money for very expensive geoduck clams over the years, and often with less successful outcome. The clams were cut a bit thicker than I’d expected, but the light touch in preserving its sweet flavor and softly chewy texture was masterful. Note the “gold and silver” of the yellow chives and the bean sprouts. The bean sprouts have been plucked of the root thread and bean to leave only what Chinese call the “silver”. Texturally, these were a just a little overdone and a bit softer than preferred, but there was more flavor development from this handling. A worthwhile trade-off. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/geoveg.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:43:03 -0700 2003 96306 0 Melanie Wong 5 96308 The salt and pepper crispy tofu appetizer on the menu here is one of my favorite appetizers. So, I got very excited when the manager suggested combining it for the geoduck duo. Also, I’ve found that Grüner Veltliner goes especially well with salt and pepper type dishes. I liked the bits of deep-fried garlic and hot peppers flavoring this dish. The clam bellies were a little too chewy for me. I would have liked them creamier inside, but did like the crunchier exterior. Another textural trade-off. Geoduck cooked two ways used a full two pounds of geoduck clam meat per table, priced at $24 per pound. This was an upgrade and substitution for the sharks fin and sea cucumber soup on the set menu – I’m hoping people enjoyed it more. (g) Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/geotofu.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:44:33 -0700 2003 96307 0 Melanie Wong 6 96309 Dried abalone was used for this dish, not fresh, which is actually more desirable. Great density, depth of flavor and smoky complexity, yet the abalone could have used a touch more hydration to be just a tad more tender to the bite. The extra thick black mushrooms were exceptional. The greens were gai choi, Chinese mustard greens. The habit is a little different from bok choy. The leaves on the head turn inward rather than being upright, and have deeper veining that makes them look almost frilly. They’re usually not that good this late in the season, but we benefited from our very cool spring and start of summer. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/abal.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:46:46 -0700 2003 96308 0 Melanie Wong 7 96310 I’m down in Salinas at the moment with my siblings. I showed my brother the pictures of this meal, and he remembered that the first time he and I ate at Seafood Harbor we had this dish. It has continued to be one of my favorites here. Black cod is the same as sable, a rich and oily fish. This style of smoked black cod actually originated in Vancouver. The first restaurant in our area to install the special smoker to make this dish was Empress in Burlingame, where we first tasted it some 10+ years ago. Now just about every Hong Kong-style seafood place around here offers it. It takes about 30 minutes to cook the fish to order so you need to be patient. A multi-course banquet like this is the ideal time to try it. The dark corners are the prize bits, with intense caramelized sweet smoky flavor. To me, this one was slightly overcooked, a little too chewy and not as buttery as I would like. Also, more of the gelatinous fat had leached out. But I still loved the thick tender flakes and warm flavors of this dish. The young 2001 Nigl was a splendid match with this, a rich wine layered on a rich food pairing. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/smkcod.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:49:22 -0700 2003 96309 0 Melanie Wong 8 96311 This was a luxurious serving with double lobsters on the platter (note the two heads staring up). I agree with you that something was lacking. The texture was softer than it should be, not the near crisp succulence that’s so highly prized, nor the special sweetness of flavor. Victoria pointed out how well this combined with the Brundlmayer. Somehow oak flavors are made for lobster in any form. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/dbllobs.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:50:49 -0700 2003 96310 0 Melanie Wong 9 96312 This is apparently one of Seafood Harbor’s specialties of the house. It was my first time to try it. The crystalline, crackly skin was irresistible. It’s amazing that the kitchen could achieve this by roasting. I agree with you that the one on our table was overcooked for Chinese tastes. But I loved dipping the still very succulent meat in the accompanying coconut-scented Malaysian curry sauce. I was very, very full by the time the noodles came out and only had a taste. They didn’t leave any particular impression on me. The warm sweet soup was a particularly good one, made of fresh taro with tapioca pearl. I’ll often skip this course, but I didn’t let this one get away from me. Image: http://www.chowhound.com/misc/mel/seafoodharbor/rstchkn.jpg Sun Jun 15 04:53:00 -0700 2003 96311 0 Melanie Wong 1 96400 Thanks for the report, Bryan, and the pictures, Melanie. It's hard to wait for the photography before digging in (g), but I'm always glad to see them later. And the dinner was fabulous -- thanks to Victoria, Melanie and Shelley for all your organizing. Mon Jun 16 19:35:38 -0700 2003 96150 0 Millicent 1 96467 Great report. Words cannot express how disappointed I was to have to skip this event due to prior out-of-town plans. Anyone have answers to the following...? What are the approximate retail prices of each wine? Where can they be purchased retail? Where can I taste these or other GV's in SF? You said the sommelier from bacar--impressive guest, by the way--was in attendance, does that mean they can be had there? Thanks! Tue Jun 17 18:18:11 -0700 2003 96150 0 nja 2 96468 All the wines were Terry Thiese selections. You can make retail purchases from Hiram Simon of Winewise in Oakland or Bill Mayer of Age of Riesling in Berkeley. Let me add the disclaimer that I've bought so much wine from Bill and enjoyed his hospitality, that he has become a personal friend. You can order over the phone or make an appointment with him - he doesn't maintain a retail facility. His phone number is 510-549-2444 and his email is poetry1@lmi.net. Or you can contact Bill's partner, Wine Wise Mr Hiram SIMON Tel. (+ 1) 510 848 6879 Fax. (+ 1) 510 848 6880 E-mail : winewise@california.net Besides Bacar, the folks at Eos and Hayes & Vine are fond of these crackling wines too and often have them by the glass. GV has become trendy and easier to find these days. It was a thrill to be able to sample nine very high quality ones in a sitting. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/259706#1372777 Image: http://www.weimax.com/images/Nikolaihof_Bottle.gif Tue Jun 17 18:39:24 -0700 2003 96467 0 Melanie Wong 2 96585 Bacar does have a very selection of GV by the glass. There are 2 sommeliers and 1 director at Bacar (the boss). We were graced with the company of one of the sommeliers. Retail prices are $15-40 with the Nigl being in the $40 range. K&L has the best selection of GV I have found in the area. Thu Jun 19 18:45:33 -0700 2003 96467 0 Victoria Libin 3 96688 I forgot to mention that Slanted Door usually has good selection of GV on its list (http://www.chowhound.com/california/boards/sanfrancisco8/messages/30013.html). Vin Vino Wine in Palo Alto is featuring a 2002 Salomon (think it's a different bottling than the one we tried) this month at 15% off for half-case purchase, putting it under $12 per bottle. A friend who was disappointed she couldn't join our dinner emailed me on how much she liked this one, and even more considering the price. I just received an invitation to a July 1 event in London where Jancis Robinson MW will introduce a tutored tasting of the Magnificent Seven - the GVs which won the historic taste off versus white Burgundies last year. I've linked the page for finding more details about the results below. Unfortunately I won't be attending, but if someone in the trade will be in London and would like to, I can forward the info for this invitation only event. Sponsored by the Austrian Wine Marketing Board and UK importers, there's also a walk-around tasting, a buffet of Austrian and fusion food, and cool jazz. Cost is £40. Link: http://www.jancisrobinson.com/jr892.htm Sat Jun 21 05:22:09 -0700 2003 96585 0 Melanie Wong