24494 Sat Jun 07 14:11:13 -0700 2003 31 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 95684 I love the food and atmosphere at RNM, but last night I was there with a big group and we were treated VERY rudely. We were 5 women and we ordered 2-3 rounds of drinks each, shared 6 entrees and 2 desserts. About an hour into our meal, the hostess came up to us and told us that she would need the table back at 8 (it was 7 then). A few minutes later she came up and asked if she could switch one of our tables (we were at 2 tables pushed together). We cleared all of our own stuff off the table and allowed them to make the switch. They offered no apology for the inconvenience or thanks for our cooperation. One of my tablemates ordered a 2nd glass of wine and the waitress dumped the remains of the first into the second! At 8:30, the hostess came up and said, "Just wanted to let you know that the party that needs your table is here and they've been waiting a long time." At this point we had just finished dessert and were minutes away from paying and leaving. I worked in restaurants for years and years and I have never experienced anything like this. When I waited tables, I would have been so angry if a hostess or someone else had made my customers feel unwelcome. I thought that a good restaurant was supposed to run seamlessly, so that customers were not aware of the operations going on in the background. I spoke with the waitress and just let her know that while I would not penalize her tipwise for the hostess' rudeness, I felt pretty sure that most people would. Has anyone else had similarly rude service at RNM? Sat Jun 07 14:11:13 -0700 2003 0 rk 1 95687 Yes. They regularly overbook the place and seem to find it completely acceptable to regularly ask patrons to leave. I recommend you vote with your feet/dollars/whatever and don't go back. I also recommend that you write or call them and let them know why you won't be back. Not that they actually care, but at least you've done your duty by complaining to the the people that can fix the problem. (80% of complainers do not complain to the person that can fix the problem. They complain to friends/family/anyone who will listen.) Sat Jun 07 14:48:28 -0700 2003 95684 0 Pssst 2 95866 And when I was in customer service training we were taught that each unhappy customer tells an average of 10 people about their bad experience. In these days of the internet, it can be a lot more. As for the appropriateness of asking people to leave, I've gotten the impression that RNM is the kind of place where they want you to hang out and talk, ordering multiple rounds of drinks and grazing on the small plates. It seems bizarre that they would design the restaurant to encourage that kind of behavior and then be rude to people who actually *gasp* behave that way. It also seems unlikely that it's the kind of place that would get complaints from other customers that a party was being too loud or rowdy, considering that loud, "fun" atmospheres are so fashionable, especially for the black-clad young crowd RNM is geared to. Mon Jun 09 17:02:08 -0700 2003 95687 0 Ruth Lafler 3 95921 It was my impression as well that RNM encouraged lingering... We were a bunch of fairly attractive women, dressed well, and eating and drinking like crazy. One of the women was an out of town visitor and we felt really embarrassed to have taken her to what we thought was a special place and be treated so rudely. "Campers" are often people who dine out often and really enjoy the experience of nice food with good friends. I, too, tip more when I am camping at a table. I realize that RNM is not my living room, but I really resented being reminded that we were only there so that they could sell us food and that once they fed us any obligation to be hospitable was over. Tue Jun 10 11:21:04 -0700 2003 95866 0 rk 1 95699 I too think you ought to write to tell them why you won't ever be back. At least it would open the door for them to do the right thing and buy you dinner - but it sounds like they don't get what the right thing to do is. I just had the opposite happen - a wonderful example of excellent service: my husband and I went to lunch at LuLu. No res, seated at a table for 2, and apparently they discovered they had a reservation for 4 that they had overlooked. They asked us if we wouldn't mind moving to another 2-top (the one we were at was next to an available 2 so they could push them together to make 4). We truly weren't even there for 3 minutes before they discovered thier mistake, but offered us drinks on the house and must have apologised 5 times for the move, which we were happy to do anyway, no harm done. It was just so refreshing to receive such good manners and service! They thanked us again upon leaving and thanked us for coming in! They were absolutely packed too, on a monday. Sat Jun 07 18:51:04 -0700 2003 95684 0 Liz 1 95736 E Sat Jun 07 23:46:42 -0700 2003 95684 0 Tom Hall 2 95742 It would be a good idea if people added the address when they posted a review (or a rant). RNM 598 Haight St San Francisco, CA 94117 Phone: (888) 418-1584 See the link below (thanks to Google) Link: http://sanfrancisco.citysearch.com/profile/35175253/ Sun Jun 08 00:05:37 -0700 2003 95736 0 Joel Teller 3 95743 Fair enough, but what does RNM stand for? (I'm as square as Joel.) Sun Jun 08 00:13:46 -0700 2003 95742 0 Gary Soup 4 95744 It's the initials of the owner/chef's late father. Sun Jun 08 00:55:48 -0700 2003 95743 0 Jeff Spicoli 4 95864 RNM is the actual name of the restaurant. The content of this board is supplied by "volunteers" -- it would be nice if everyone supplied complete contact information in every post (although that would get quite repetitive for places that get mentioned frequently), but there are no minimum content requirements for posts. Meanwhile, if you're reading this board that means you're on the Internet, which has a wealth of resources for finding information quickly and easily (Google, online yellow pages, etc.). For example, the complete address, phone number and a map for RNM is available by searching: Link: http://www.smartpages.com/ Mon Jun 09 16:50:29 -0700 2003 95743 0 Ruth Lafler 5 95939 I really was unaware that was the name- I thought it was shorthand like FL... Tue Jun 10 13:01:09 -0700 2003 95864 0 Tom Hall 6 96062 Don't feel bad, so did I! someone above just happened to add a link to the restaurant review. I was curious what RNM stood for, so I went to the review. As for the initial question. It is clear that the hostess handled that situation very badly. The person who needs to really hear about it is the owner or the manager. I would call them or write them a letter, see how management handles your complaint which is founded. However 2.5 hours for 2 courses is a very long time, my question would be why so long? Was it their fault for being slow in serving you or were you having a very leasurely dinner. I do not know of any restaurant that plans for a small party to take that long for 2 courses on a busy night for a leasurely dinner. Whatever the case, I believe it is okay to ask someone to move if they are taking an exceptionally long time and other people are waiting. But, it is never ok to ask someone to move twice! or hound them to leave. Wed Jun 11 20:29:07 -0700 2003 95939 0 Regina 1 95748 Hate to ask this, but have you thought about this from the prospective of the restaurant? From your post, it seems like 5 diners had a fairly minimal amount of food over a 2.5+ hour period. It sounds like you were treating the restaurant as a lounge. Have you ever waited for over an hour at a restaurant when you had reservations? Has this negatively impacted your opinion of that restaurant? It sounds like the service may have been abrupt. That is bad, but I do have to wonder how you treated them based upon the tone of your message. It certainly doesn't seem that you tried to accommodate them in any fashion. Sun Jun 08 02:18:08 -0700 2003 95684 0 a geek 2 95787 I worked as a waitress for many years through school and we were never, EVER allowed to ask anyone to leave, no matter how long they had been there or how little they had ordered. It is unattractively inhospitable and doesn't make for repeat customers. I try to just be aware of my surroundings and leave if it looks like I should, but I am always shocked when a restaurant takes that upon itself. At the very least they should have apologized profusely and offered something to make up for it, either by taking something off the bill or asking that the party move the the bar, or SOMETHING. Sun Jun 08 20:12:25 -0700 2003 95748 0 Maya 3 95806 Does a restaurant that's in demand NEED repeat customers who can't be done with an a la carte meal in 2.5 hours? As the poster above suggested, there's a difference between a restaurant and a cocktail lounge. Mon Jun 09 01:34:40 -0700 2003 95787 0 Gary Soup 4 95847 RNM probably doesn't need repeat customers now, but eventually they will. Asking people to leave simply shows exceedingly bad manners. Imagine asking a guest to leave your home. I think the restaurants that do best in a shaky economy are the ones that make their customers feel like they are welcome, as at a friend's house, and not as walking cash machines. I for one don't appreciate being reminded I'm only there for the money they can soak out of me, instead of hospitality. Why would I go to a place that made me feel like that, when there are so many others with great food which make for an all-around pleasant evening? Mon Jun 09 15:06:23 -0700 2003 95806 0 Maya 5 95920 I completely agree. Maybe they don't want us back, but the goodwill created by allowing your customers to enjoy the company of their friends in your restaurant seems like it is worth a lot. After all, I used to tell everyone how I liked RNM (but I usually eat faster), and now not only will I not go back, but I am telling my fellow food geeks about my experience as well as my friends and family. Tue Jun 10 11:11:36 -0700 2003 95847 0 rk 6 95953 Maya, just out of curiosity, if you were the one waiting for your reserved table that was now 1/2 hour late, and you had been watching people who were clearly finished with their meal and just sitting around while you waited, would you feel the restaurant was taking good care of you? I'm also curious whether you had a reservation when you arrived? I've been told before that my table would be needed at a certain time, but only when I walked in without a reservation. Tue Jun 10 15:42:33 -0700 2003 95920 0 Morgan 7 95955 Oops, sorry! I meant rk, not Maya! Tue Jun 10 15:43:23 -0700 2003 95953 0 Morgan 8 95986 As to how I'd feel - It's happened to me many times. I felt irritated, I am sure, but most restaurants comped a glass of wine or a cocktail or an appetizer and then I was happy as a clam and the other party was able to finish out their meal in peace. Tue Jun 10 19:09:11 -0700 2003 95955 0 rk 9 95991 Well, if you had a reservation, I can see why you were so irritated. (And the first time I read your post I missed that you were still eating dessert when they asked you to leave. Sorry about that!) Personally I would be uncomfortable if I took 2-1/2 hours for two courses when I knew for sure that people were waiting for my table. And though sometimes I might not mind waiting, I would also appreciate the restaurant trying to do something about it when I've already been waiting half an hour with a reservation. If they hadn't asked you to leave, would you have stayed much later, do you think? I'm not trying to pick on you, honest; I guess I just have a different attitude. I really like eating in Italy, where you can stay all night if you want! But I don't think restaurant economics are the same here. Tue Jun 10 19:52:06 -0700 2003 95986 0 Morgan 10 95994 No problem, Morgan. I am sympathetic to the need of the restaurant (and the waiter) to turn tables. As a former waiter/bartender I bend over backwards to be kind, be a good customer, tipper, order-er, etc. But I still think good hospitality dictates that a restaurant not kick customers out. I worked at 4-5 different restaurants, none of which were fine dining, and none of which allowed a waiter to kick out a customer. Even if we were closing in 5 minutes, we stayed open for any group that came in and graciously served them even though it meant being on my feet for an extra 1.5-2 hours and for only one table. I guess I just think it is easier to make it good with the party who is waiting rather than kick out the already-seated. But, yes, at the time the hostess came up to us, we were minutes away from leaving. Don't worry, I don't feel picked on. It's just that when I was a waitron, I really wanted my customers to have a good experience. Waiting and hostessing are somewhat crappy jobs, but I think one can take pride in making others happy more than cramming in one more table and making everyone unhappy. Does that make any sense? Tue Jun 10 20:28:10 -0700 2003 95991 0 rk 11 95997 Sure does. And I'll bet you got big tips! I guess I'm just a little sympathetic to the people who are waiting, because I hate having to wait when I have a reservation. I mean, I don't mind 15 or 20 minutes, but an hour and I'm not happy, no matter how many cocktails or appetizers they've comped me. And sometimes there is an older person in the party who can't stay up all night waiting to eat. It's a difficult situation--after all, both parties were given reservations and came to the place expecting to dine, and only one is getting to do so. But the restaurant should be better at scheduling, I suppose. I have reservations at the French Laundry later this month, but could get only the 5:30 seating. Maybe we should try staying past 9:30 and see what they do, just for research purposes. ;-) Tue Jun 10 20:56:13 -0700 2003 95994 0 Morgan 12 96012 Enjoy the French Laundry!! Let me know how the experiment turns out (5:30-9:30...) Wed Jun 11 01:38:06 -0700 2003 95997 0 rk 11 96001 It seems to me that RNM has other service issues in addition to the "kicking people out" problem. Why did it take them 2.5 hours to serve you two courses? I don't think that your case is an isolated incident. A friend told me that she was there (table of four). The were seated 20 minutes late by the host, the waitress showed up a while later to tell them the specials and take their drink order. They waited a while for their drinks which the waitress plopped down and ran away. Then she ran up and said "There's only one special left, you want it?". They said yes, but then she ran away to secure the special. By the time she came back to take their dinner order, my friends had been seated for 30 minutes!!! When they ordered, each person ordered and indicated an appetizer and a main course but each dish came one or two at a time and was placed in the middle of the table. So even though they were not planning to share the dishes they were pretty much forced to in order to "get it while its hot". Although, I guess each person could have grabbed their dish from the middle of the table and eaten it while the others watched. They were not "kicked out" but she did notice the stack up of people waiting for tables (and the glares). It seems like RNM overbooks the place and doesn't have the knowledge/ability/whatever to control the pace of their guests' dinner. And they clearly have little to no understanding of the basics of customer service. All of which is a shame since their food has been highly praised. Tue Jun 10 21:05:49 -0700 2003 95994 0 Pssst 7 95984 Yes, we had a reservation. Tue Jun 10 19:06:17 -0700 2003 95953 0 rk 2 95823 "From the restaurant's perspective"? It is absolutely unforgivable for a restaurant to ask me to finish my dinner, no matter how much I have ordered, except for under very special circumstances. Mon Jun 09 11:44:46 -0700 2003 95748 0 Peter 2 95883 I used to work at several well known restaurants on the peninsula and wouldn't think of asking a table to leave--even if they were "campers." My philosophy was and is if these people are truly enjoying themselves and their conversation who am to interupt that. When I go out with friends, whether it is just 2 or 6 if we have "camped" at our table I definately tip more because I realize they could have turned that table one more time or more maybe. But I think it is unforgivable to be asked to move in that manner. I think if the tables were turned and the waitress/manager/hostess was asked to move in that tone/manner they would probably not appreciate it. Mon Jun 09 18:53:49 -0700 2003 95748 0 Hannah 1 95766 If you were one hour into your meal at 7, and asked to wind it up at 8:30, I don't think that was unreasonable. You weren't in the French Laundry or Danko's, where you pay for 3-4 hours. I have a strange feeling from the sequence of events (and some experience in the restaurant business) that they were (not particularly with much tact) trying to get rid of you. Perhaps someone in your party was a bit loud? Or had a laugh like a hyena? There may have been complaints by other customers...maybe even the ones waiting for the table they reserved for 8 o'clock. Two or three rounds of drinks for six people plus wine can get a bit loose. And what was with all the table switching? Sounds strange. Sun Jun 08 15:00:41 -0700 2003 95684 0 Jim H. 2 95822 Oh no. At no time should I be asked to "wind up", not even at very busy dim sum restaurants with lines of people waiting outside. The only exception I can think of right now are restaurants with specific seating times, and you know the next seating is at a certain time. Mon Jun 09 11:42:04 -0700 2003 95766 0 Peter 3 95840 In my opinion, at no time should you HAVE to be asked to "wind up". Mon Jun 09 14:27:44 -0700 2003 95822 0 Morgan 4 95898 A controversial topic to be sure. Rudeness is never acceptable and it does not sound as if it was handled very well...... BUT I do think 2.5 hours is a loooooong time for a busy restaurant with waiting customers. It is quite simple to adjorn to another location either within the restaurant at the lounge, or another location outside the restaurant. We've all been the ones waiting while we see tables clearly finished with the meal but making no move to leave. Someone is going to be unhappy, either the person moving or the person waiting. Despite the cliche the customer is NOT always right. But hopefully, as apparently did not occur here, the situation can be handled with some level or grace or tact Mon Jun 09 22:12:10 -0700 2003 95840 0 tomritza