242878 Tue Apr 27 11:24:52 -0700 2004 20 19 Outer Boroughs 0 1289895 (notice how I avoid mis-posting because I did not use 'The Best') My wife and I are being called up on to provide some rest aurant suggestions for an 'older' couple coming to NYC and who are willing to investigate the culinary casino that is Brooklyn. They have heard about Smith Street and the Wililamsburg scene. Personally i applaud thier enthusiasm and want to provide some suggestions, but I look to you to back me up or enlighten me. It seems that many of the top tier places have been second guessed in the last year or so. So here goes: - Peter Lugers (class by itself I know, and I will most definitley reccomend) Others (no order) - Blue Ribbon - Patois (do I dare?) - Henrys End - Al Di La (the 'no reservations' is a killer I think) - Convivium - Cucina (I have never been) - River Cafe (doesnt' this place have a Tavern on the green curse? great space, bland food?) - 360 (given the 'service' at this place, it might not be for them, but I could warn them, at least they take res.) thats it - I am tapped, what other places are there to suggest? Tue Apr 27 11:24:52 -0700 2004 0 fkerm 1 1289897 Heh heh, people here will KILL you for suggesting Patois... I'd suggest that instead of the tired old Patois you send them to: - the Grocery (Smith) - Chestnut (ditto) I think Henry's End is unimpressive, but I was there only once. The place does have die-hard fans though. Other candidates: Rosewater (Park Slope) Downtown Atlantic (not "top tier" perhaps but very good) Restaurant Saul Wild card: DiFara's (if they can be persuaded) Tue Apr 27 11:38:14 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Sir Gawain 2 1289898 yes - you got me, I blanked on Grocery, thanks, will add that to the list. Tue Apr 27 11:50:25 -0700 2004 1289897 0 fkerm 2 1289919 I wouldn't put Downtown Atlantic in with any "top-tier." It's a solid neighborhood place that wouldn't be looked at twice in Manhattan. Tue Apr 27 14:30:51 -0700 2004 1289897 0 Peter Cuce 3 1289929 Well, see my caveat. I essentially agree; it was my out-of-town friends' favorite place on a recent visit, but they are not exactly food-obsessed. They just liked the all-around wholesomeness and good quality of the food, the friendly service, the music and the neighborhood vibe. I do think it's in the same league as Henry's End though, and tossed it in for variety. Tue Apr 27 16:04:55 -0700 2004 1289919 0 Sir Gawain 2 1289924 I dont have experience with the Cobble Hill places, but think that Osteria Convivium, Bistro St. Marks and the Garden Cafe are all excellent prospects for an "older" person. The first is atmospheric "mediterranean"; the second stylish and well prepared bistro (minimal but attractive decor- try to get a seat in the back room, away from the bar, or the garden if its nice) the third the full treatment, candles, flowers, tablecloths, fine french-oriented food in an intimate setting. Lots of places that I like fine and that have plenty of older neighborhood patrons - A Table and Vini e Olii for example, are either potentially uncomfortable (you might wind up sitting on a bench seat in the case of the former or zoning out in the din, when the restaurant is full in the case of the latter) or just too loud. I also find Al di La rather jammed and rushed, though I like it very much. Tue Apr 27 15:30:58 -0700 2004 1289897 0 jen kalb 1 1289899 I think you did an excellent job with your list, although I'd take out Patois. I dont have the same negative feelings some do about the ownership, attitude, etc, but I just dont think its at the level of these others. Unless the new chef at Cucina has brought the place all the way back, I'd remove it as well. Without a doubt, River Cafe belongs on this list; although its no longer one of the best in NYC, the food is still at least as good as many on the list (even though the cost is way more). As most already know, I'm one of those who would debate anyone removing Henry's End as well: it's just about my favorite, bar none. Recommend the game menu if its still on, or the soft shell crabs if your friends come after the seasons change. Adding Chestnut and Grocery is also a great idea, although I personally like Chestnut more. I'd also add Garden Cafe on Vanderbuilt and Queen on Court Street. Not sure of your definition of "older" (since we're in our 50s) but all of these are fine for us, even though the atmosphere varies greatly from place to place. Tue Apr 27 12:08:31 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Steve R. 1 1289900 I'd definitely add Saul to that list. Food is very modern and sophisticated, and I've had some killer meals there in the last few months. Tue Apr 27 12:10:58 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Jason W. 2 1289906 I agree with the Saul addition. I had an excellent meal there about a month ago. Cucina should be dropped from the list. Twelve years ago there was a novelty value for having a decent Manhattan level restaurant open on the wasteland of 5th Avenue. Car service town cars used to pull up filled with people who treated Brooklyn like some theme park adventure. Those days are long past and the money you'd drop in Cucina is better spent elsewhere. Tue Apr 27 13:00:10 -0700 2004 1289900 0 Bob Martinez 1 1289901 I think your list is probably as good as it gets, especially when you include The Grocery. I agree with the suggestion to drop Patois, as it's hit or miss at best. Re River Cafe: I don't know if there is a curse on the place, but I've always enjoyed myself there. The food is on a par with other top-tier restaurants (IMO, anyway), and the setting simply cannot be beat. They have a first rate (albeit expensive) wine list as well. And I've found their service to be first rate as well. But if you are worried about not getting a good deal, you can always visit their drop-in lounge, which isn't as formal (nor, in my opinion, as inviting), but does offer the same terrific view. Be advised that if you do decide to try TRC, they require jackets on men (the restaurant proper, that is, not the lounge). Good luck... Tue Apr 27 12:12:29 -0700 2004 1289895 0 George Lynch 1 1289907 I would definitely encourage a visit to Al Di La. If you go on a weekday, get there by 6:15 and there should be no problem getting a table. On Saturday night I've seen people line up before 6 to ensure they'll get a table when they open. While it is not in the absolute first tier of Brooklyn restaurants, I'd also add Thomas Biesl, across from BAM. Very solid creative Austrian; great desserts. Tue Apr 27 13:06:38 -0700 2004 1289895 0 bookistan 1 1289908 I'd throw "Locanda Vini e Olii" on the list too. While the food may not *quite* but in line with the others, the room, the staff, and the owners make up for it in my opinion. Link: http://www.locandavinieolii.com/ Tue Apr 27 13:09:06 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Peter in the Heights 1 1289909 Are these people who are going to care more about their comfort, low noise level etc or about the quality of their food? Many of the brooklyn places with fine food often stick people right on top of each other and have hard chairs. Noise level can be hard, too. Tue Apr 27 13:19:17 -0700 2004 1289895 0 jen kalb 2 1289913 Good point, and one I thought of when putting my list out there. Does it detract from the food? For lunch or just winging it? NO. But if you are telling someone to make a special trip to brooklyn for dinner, then I don't think you want to have them deal with Dom rummaging for forks (see DiFaras) thanks for adding that though, yes I want to keep a certain level of 'comfort' and 'decorum' in the mix... To the rest of you (if you happen to read this); thanks very much and will be amending the list.... Tue Apr 27 13:38:15 -0700 2004 1289909 0 fkerm 1 1289914 Garden Cafe on Vanderbilt in Prospect heights is a Brooklyn standout, in my mind - it's also very quiet and refined and has what I would consider to be a good "older" vibe, as opposed to a place like Locanda Vini e Olli which is great on weeknights but horrendously loud and obnoxious on weekends. Tue Apr 27 13:48:49 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Louise 1 1289915 I guess it was obnoxious, but I did not mean it to be obnoxious, but any other euphimism would have beeen just as insulting - and I am not the youngest kid out here either (35) These are people who are a little 'older' 60+ I believe. As i said in my original post - they obviously have a vibrant spirit and that is what counts, I just don't fell like telling them - yeah start at gowanus yacht club then zip over to Planet Thai and check out muggs afterwards....I would probably do that with them, if they eanted but I want to send them somewhere 'nice' Jus twanted to clear that up... Tue Apr 27 14:05:00 -0700 2004 1289895 0 fkerm 2 1289917 euphemism euphemism euphemism Tue Apr 27 14:08:02 -0700 2004 1289915 0 fkerm 1 1289937 How about Restaurant Gia in Fort Greene? I was there a year ago. The food was very good and the rooms were modern without being cold. Perfect for an "older" couple. Tue Apr 27 17:09:35 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Bob 2 1289969 i really cannot recommend this place. bad service (even though we were one of two tables there and there were two waitresses!) and i think the food is overpriced for what it is.... Wed Apr 28 11:52:52 -0700 2004 1289937 0 jerusha 1 1289955 I would keep Cucina on the list in spite of some negative opinions here. I have eaten there several times over the last year and the food and service are as good as they ever were. Furthermore it is spacious and comfortable; you can actually carry on a civilized conversation, and you might not even need a reservation. Trendy it isn't, but you can eat very well at Cucina. Tue Apr 27 23:12:21 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Walnetto 1 1290053 Take Henry's End, Cucina and Patois off the list and put The Grocery and Saul on. Sat Jul 24 19:35:27 -0700 2004 1289895 0 Gerald