China Village redux
After two chowhound meals at China Village in Albany I took my mother and sister there this evening (after a tea brewing class at Celadon down the street).
The manager didn't recognize me, and picked up only the American Chinese version of the menu as he escorted us to our table. But I grabbed the Chinese specialties menu off the host stand, and when he saw that he wisked the offending version away and brought more of the "right" menu for everyone.
What's on the other menu? my sister asked. Kung Pao chicken and sweet and sour pork, I said. I peeked later: also, General Tso's chicken (vbg).
They let me order. My sister moaned with delight over the sliced side pork in spicy garlic sauce (a whole reason to live, in my opinion). She was wondering how the pork is cooked, and I wasn't sure -- poached, maybe? Anyone know? We also had the cucumber with the same sauce. I thought you didn't like cucumbers, Mom said. I don't, I said. These aren't cucumbers, they're pickles on steroids.
I asked the manager to recommend a seasonal vegetable, and it was water-something. Watercress? Haven't we had this discussion about how Chinese watercress isn't the same as American watercress, but something else? Anyway, it was good and a nice antidote, along with the sesame flat bread, to the heat from the spicy tofu w/fish fillet (aka "Red Bowl of Death").
We all survived the heat, except for an unfortunate episode when my sister inhaled a bit of chili oil and coughed for several minutes.
Anyway, I wanted to report that an all-"round-eyes" party can get the "real thing" with minimal effort. Thanks again to chowhound for discovering and supporting this hidden gem.
By Ruth Lafler
on May 7, 2003 03:23 AM
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Sounds like a great visit :)
I've had also had a few excellent meals there in the past 2 or 3 months. Since House of Yurong's fiery demise, China Village has been my restaurant of choice for my Water-Cooked Pork fix (shui zhu rou pian). Their version has a smoky density to it that I love. Also had an excellent frog dish off the menu ... sauteed with bell peppers and pickled garlic and a sweet and sour type sauce - probably the only sweet and sour I've ever appreciated in my life... really complimented the other ingredients. One of my dining companions remarked "oh this is why people like frog" after trying it.
I've had the Water-Cooked Pork at House of Sichuan (which Yimster recently posted http://www.chowhound.com/california/boards/sanfrancisco/messages/52620.html). I noticed most people ordered the version with lamb. I think you'll enjoy it Yim, when you get a chance to go back and order the standard version (=hotttt hehehhh). It's very much like what they served at House of Yurong. I wonder if any of the cooks from H of Y are working in the H of S kitchen now? One of the Yurong waiters works now at House of Sichuan, and I tried speaking with him, but my chinese is too poor to broach the subject of the fire and his subsequent employment at H of S. Dan dan noodles were very spicy last time I tried them there. I also really enjoyed the dry-fried string beans (gan bian si ji dou) at House of Sichuan. Excellent "dryness" to them, full of flavor. Looking forward to trying the rest of their extensive specialty menu. This would definately be a good place for a future chowdown.
On Sunday, on my way to Kowloon Tong Dessert Cafe, I stopped by a new place called Szechuan Trenz (8th at Clement in SF). Demian posted a blurb back in March (http://www.chowhound.com/california/boards/sanfrancisco/messages/48069.html), but hasn't yet posted the follow-up ;). It's a very small place, and everyone in there (staff and diners) were young Taiwanese. The flashy decor and kicked-back vibe reminded me of some little cafe in the shee-shee part of Taipei city. The menu is mixed Sichuan, Taiwanese, and Shanghai, which is usually a red alert to get out as quickly as possible.. but the dishes at the next table looked good, so we ordered:
3. Spicy Beef Bowl with Flaming RED Oil (shui zhu rou pian) $6.95. This is the "Water-Cooked subsitute your choice of meat here". I asked for it with pork. They got the numbing-hot flavors and the silky smooth pork and refreshing vegetable textures right, but the oil itself didn't have the devastating intensity you'd find at the restaurants mentioned above. Perhaps it was becuase it was served in a pyrex bowl, but it was as if it'd been "Betty Crockerized"...the oil was a little too "clean" looking, at least until you got down to the clouds of sichuan peppercorn powder at the bottom. Nevertheless, I enjoyed it immensely, and will be ordering the fish version next time.
44. Hot & Spicy Beef Combination (fu qi fei pian) $3.95. This is the beef shank/tripe w/chili oil and cilantro, little garlic. Great textures, great beef flavor, good job with the seasonings.
45. Spicy Chinese Bacon with Garlic (suan ni bai rou) $3.95. This is the "sliced side pork in spicy garlic sauce" that Ruth mentions. The presentation here isn't as delicate as at China Village.. bacon is sliced a little thicker, and doesn't have that full-on mashed-garlic punch. But again all the flavors were right and the portions were generous. BTW Ruth, here's a general recipe to answer your sis's ? about how the pork is cooked: http://www.nicemeal.com/pork/pork03.html
54. vinagrette Shredded Seaweed (hai dai si) $1.95. Shredded kelp. Pretty bland, but very fresh tasting, a nice counterpoint to the spices in the other dishes.
Totally enjoyable meal, and I'm looking forward to trying their other dishes, particularly their Taiwanese selections (they also have 5 different Stinky Tofu dishes). Interested in the Shanghai food too. There was a couple a few tables over and the wife was obviously the chowhound of the pair. The manager? came over to casually ask if it was their first time there, and he explained upon her inquiry, that they're really trying to provide good and authentic versions of the three regional styles listed on the menu. They seem to have succeeded with the Sichuan food we tried.
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Charlie, like I said in my post the chef was restricted in the heat he could put in. Do think the food was good, since without the heat the House of Sichuan food was not that tasty. Maybe I do not need to try it before we have a chowdown. I will take you word on it.
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Thanks for the recipe link -- I see it is indeed poached. I figured it had to be, since the fat is neither carmelized nor rendered.
The recipe calls for poaching in water and wine -- do you think that's standard?
You're so right about the intense garlic punch -- I sent my Mom and sister home to their husbands reeking of garlic!
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what's the real name of this place? sichuan trenz, spice!, spice girls??
Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...
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We're having trouble locating this for ChowNews....anyone know the exact name, address, and/or phone?
Link: http://chowhound.safeshopper.com/23/c...
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Here's another post on the restaurant with a good reckoning for finding it, but no address. It's new.
Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...
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i posted this at the tail of another thread and thought it probably should be reposted here:
spice! la mei zi or whatever its called will be opening #2 on clement near 5th. it'll be twice as big as #1 and will be a little bit more subdued (in comparison to the asian techno blaring at #1) which will leave #1 to open later.
when we asked him if he's made back his money he said, "we're doing alright here." i'm happy for his success -- more good food! though, on that day we ordered the kung pao calamari and it was spoiled -- the calamari had been warming near the stove for quite some time before it was cooked. he took the dish back and reprimanded the chef... and i just thought it was cooked in a wok with stinky tofu residue! i can learn to forgive them... after all, it's a chinese restaurant.
also, he's also planning to open La Er Zi (spice boy) which will offer the spectrum of taiwanese boba milk tea culture some time in summer.
btw, i've eaten at Sam Lok twice this week and once last week... the food is consistently autentic, tasty and the folks are so nice it makes me feel like home. as it turns out, i knew one of the chef's b/c he use to hang out at dpd after his shift. it's not shockingly spicy which is a good thing.
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Thanks, g of c, and for all the other good intelligence you've been contributing to the board. I think vn picked up your earlier post in the link above. Do let us know what the name of place is when that gets straightened out.
Could you please start a new thread and tell us more about what you had at Sam Lok? Chinese restaurants almost always have humongous menus, and hounds reading along appreciate guidance for what the house specialties and strengths might be to help navigate unfamiliar territory.
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i loved this place and want to see them succeed.
the name is:
Spices! / La4 Mei4Zi (literally, "spicy li'l sis"; you'll understand when you see the logo)
the SUBTITLE is:
Szechuan Trenz [sic]
#1 : 294 8th (@clement)
415 752 8884
#2 : 291 6th (@clement)
415 752 8885
zaijian!
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Went back today for lunch. Had #44 "Hot and Spicy Beef Combo" a cold dish of thinly sliced brisket and tripe, and #83" Won Tons in Red Oil". Both dishes were 2* and excellent. The address is 294 8th Ave.(SF)
Cheers-Tom-
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Your frog dish sounds a little different than the one we tried at Chowdown #1, which was sour from pickled jalapenos, but I'm not recalling sweetness.
Have you cracked into the Beijing/Shandong dishes yet? Any info on Tanjia dishes?
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Wow, China Village sure is popular with Chowhounds. I was there yesterday with a business associate for lunch, and sho 'nuff, had to ask for the "other" menu. Once I got my little paws on it, though, a magnificent lunch was had by all... erm, two (boiled beef with Chinese celery, and the cumin lamb - YUM!).
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Darn Ruth, was that you at Celadon? I was thinking maybe it was and was going to check the name tags. I was the person next to the tea kettle at the other end of the counter.
What did you think of the class? I took a similar class Imperial Tea for $35. The Imperial Tea class had more on the history of tea, but the Celadon class was better for the hands on part. That oolong was just outstanding, I thought.
Your mom seemed really nice. I had the same problems with a gaiwan the first time I handled it at Imperial Tea. She seemed like a pro at the end.
Celadon is always such an education for me each time I go in for a tasting. The best is when one of the owners is there pouring tea. I did the same thing you did. Brought in some tea I bought a few years ago in Taiwan to see if it was any good. I was sort of hoping it was some sort of pu-erh and aged well. No such luck. She did call over a few of the staff to show them tea gone bad and said, well, maybe I could use it to bathe in. They were lovely containers though. Hope your mom fared better with her tea.
Celadon has a lot of nice tea books to read on site. They even have a book of photos on a trip to China and the tea farms.
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Funny, I had an inkling that might be you! I hoped that if you'd caught our names you'd introduce yourself. Too bad the woman leading the class didn't have everyone introduce themselves. When I signed up I thought it was a little pricey for a one-hour class, but then I realized that if you included the cost of the tea, it was a pretty good deal (and of course it was closer to two hours than one). I'm not a big oolong fan, but the White Peony Longevity Brows was amazing!
My mom had a great time -- she's kind of a ham and gets a lot of mileage out of being a klutz. It was our annual Mother's Day outing (we're somewhat untraditional about Mother's Day ... a very long story).
Fortunately my tea is less than a year old, so still good (if not as good as it would have been a year ago). But I had no clue as to how to brew it properly, so the loss in quality over time is made up for by the fact I now have some idea how to prepare it. I'll still have to play with it a little, though.
Anyway, since you're the person whose post here first brought Celadon to my attention -- thank you! It's a great find. And now at least if we run into each other on our chowrounds we'll be more confident about saying hello.
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On your recommendation I went to China Village yesterday. My non-chowish companion stuck with the lunch menu and ordered his regular beef dish (Mandarin? Mongolian? Manchurian? -- whatever.) I saw beef stew in a noodle soup listed and had to order that. I LOVE beef stew and haven't had a respectable version in years.
The waiter (owner I think) asked if I wanted it mild or spicy. "Spicy" I said. He kept asking me if I were sure and I insisted. I got a huge bowl, and there was a chile-oil layer covering everything. It was HOT! But very tasty. The beef stew was as I remembered it should be, and the unusual fat ropey noodles looked like casually hand-made creations.
There were a number of interesting things on the menu, but not, unfortuinately, on the lunch menu which was a collection of tired cliches. Next time I'll remember to ask for the other menu as well.
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Your beef stew sounds quite yummy.
I'm curious what your companion thought of his selection. I wonder if the "cliches" are better than average here, too.
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He liked his lunch-plate-for-caucasians just fine. His knowledge of Chinese food is minimal in the extreme ("What's dim sum?") So what's cliche to me is a new adventure for him.
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By coincidence, I just polished off some China Village food. Take-out, alas, but I had to be in Berkeley mid-afternoon, and wanted to beat rush hour home. Here's what I ate:
Kung Pao Chicken. Yeah, I know, it's for Liza. Actually, Kung Pao Chicken is one of my favorite dishes, but I've only had a really good version of it once at a restaurant. My favorite is a modified version of the recipe in Raymond Delfs' _The Good Food of Szechuan_. Peppers deliberately burned in oil for that indescribable, wonderful flavor. No celery, no bell pepper, just chicken and peppers and seasonings.
This version was no worse than most. Dark meat chicken, softened green bell peppers, reasonably tasty if you don't think of it as Kung Pao Chicken. GOOD MINUS
Then the good stuff. Bless this place for providing an English version of the Chinese menu.
Cold Beef Tendon in hot oil (listed as "Spicy Beep Tender" on the menu). A bit softer-textured than I'd like and a bit less edgy, but the softened scallion shreds helped make the dish make sense as a different, softer version than what I'm used to. VERY GOOD MINUS
Chong Quing Chicken. Little nuggets of chicken (wing?) on the bone, seemingly dry-cooked with tons of dried peppers, hot and numbing and chewy and delicious. EXCELLENT PLUS
Eggplant in Garlic Sauce. This is my "test dish" for Sichuan restaurants, and China Village aced the test. Soft eggplant, rich hot/numbing/sweet sauce, and the dominating flavor seemed to be an enhancement of that wonderful dark liquid that Chinese or Japanese eggplant exudes as it roasts. Right on the money. EXCELLENT PLUS.
I'm going back, for sure. Great place. And there's plenty of wonderful exotica to explore. Pig's feet. Tripe. Intestines. And some dishes I can't tell what they are. "Szechwan Style Spicy Boiled Stomach Strips?" "River Soft To-Fu Flower"? When, oh when, is someone going to offer an "intensive Menu Chinese Character Reading" course? I'll sign up in a microsecond.
-- Bryan
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So, the River Soft Tofu Flower is a shallow pie dish of what must be house made soft Tofu sitting in it's own juice. It's served with a bowl of Sichuan peppercorn and chili sauce that is quite intense. You scoop up some of the soft tofu and season with the spicy sauce to taste. I liked it.
One dish I've had a couple of times now is the so-called "West Style Spicy Fish," which is actually kind of a soup. Firm white fish fillets are cooked in a pale broth flavored with wok-charred scallions and garlic and a dense layer of dried chilis. These are scooped off before serving, but leave a moderate spicy smokiness behind. There's also some clear mung bean noodle in it. I liked this a lot. I think it'd be pefect if the stock was richer.
I've had the eggplant as well, and thought it was one of the finest versions I've had. Another, perhaps less exalted vegetable dish is the spicy stir-fried cabbage which is ordinary green cabbage wok-charred with a little bit of a slightly sweet and tangy soy-based sauce. And dried chilis again. I like cabbage, and both times I've eaten the whole plate at once. (I dine alone a lot).
I've been ordering xiao long bao here, and they are weirdly inconsistent. They used to be largish, with decent soup and ok filling, then they went to decent soup and tasteless filling, then no soup but decent filling, then to the smaller, quarter size with good filling and little soup, and last time, just ok filling and no soup. You xiao long bao aficionados will likely find this a cruel joke of irregularity, albeit they were never terrible. Just not wonderful.
I've been wondering about the Kung Pao Chicken, since they list it on the "Special" menu. I was thinking that it might be some kind of "authentic" version, since I'm sure that there is some kind of authentic version out there, whatever it may be. Maybe they make two versions, and you got the wrong one by accident. (I'm sure the Americanized menu must have it as well). The reason why I think it might be is that I ordered the Twice Cooked Pork once, and instead of the usual roast pork stir-fried with cabbage in brown sauce, I got sauteed side pork (uncured bacon style) in a some kind of broad bean chili sauce with leeks. Quite nice.
Tea Smoked Duck was pretty good to me. A fairly salty (brined?) bird thoroughly smoked. The skin is not crispy like Peking duck's, if that's what you're hoping for. Apparently, this dish is an authentic, pre-chili pepper era Sichuan dish.
The spicy rabbit appetizer was bony, but had excellent ma-la spicy flavor.
Picking up on Ruth's musings on the quality of, say, General Tso's Chicken, here at this fine restaurant, I am going to have to stick my neck out next time and order it. I'm going to admit to liking this dish sometimes, but I agree it can get pretty awful when there's awful to be gotten.
Perusing my trusty take-out menu, I notice for the first time the Hunan Smoked Pork with String Bean and the Hunan Smoked Pork with Links. Any ideas? What about the Steamed Spareribs with Sweet Potato? What the hell could that be, beyond the obvious? Once I saw someone order the Vermicelli with Ground Pork, but never got around to trying it. It looked good too.
Wow. I think I know where I'm eating this weekend.
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Great background on those dishes, thanks.
>> Perusing my trusty take-out menu, I notice for the first time the Hunan Smoked Pork with String Bean and the Hunan Smoked Pork with Links. Any ideas? <<
I don't know about the links (sausage?), but the string bean one sounds like one of the best things on the Henry Chung's menu -- smoky salty streaky pork slices and lots of fried wrinkly string beans. The flavor of the smokiness in the Henry Chung's version is wonderful, and drastically unlike any other smokiness I've tasted.
-- Bryan
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Thanks for the further recs -- the manager tried to convince me to order the West Style Spicy fish (instead of the Red Bowl of Death) so good to hear a report on it.
The eggplant is going on my "must try" list, too.
All the pork dishes in your last paragraph sound delicious ... I can't wait to hear what you eat this weekend!
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I stopped by for what I thought would be a light snack late-ish on Saturday and ended up ordering a few more things that I don't think have been discussed yet.
The owner had encouraged me to return for the zha jiang mian when we saw him for the Chowdown last month. Really excellent here with the handcut irregular shaped chewy noodles, well-tuned bean paste and seasonings, very meaty tasting dry sauteed minced pork with that fine grainy texture, and slivered cucumbers. He said they make the noodles fresh before the lunch hour and then again for dinner, 20 orders available for each seating for certain noodle dishes.
Szechwan spareribs is a new item featured on a color photo inserted in the plastic cover to the "authentic" menu. A small steamer dish was about $5. The pork ribs are cut into inch lengths with a thick reddish sauce that was lightly spicy with chilis, salty, a little sweet and a little sour. Very intriguing and exotic flavor. The ribs were meatier than what's usually served in the dim sum houses, but also chewier and firmer on the bone.
I also tried the lamb and chives water dumplings. This was the one miss. I had asked for my leftover spareribs to be boxed up and told my server that I didn't want the remaining dumplings. My bill had already been charged to my credit card, but the owner, Mr. Yao, came out from the kitchen when he saw the uneaten food and asked me if there was a problem with the dumplings. I told him that the lamb was too strongly flavored in proportion to the spicing. He said that they use older Australian lamb to give the more pronounced, authentic taste. I replied that I appreciated that but needed better balance with stronger ginger, chives and peppercorns. He said that he would have the chef blend the filling to my taste next time I come in, that he owed me an order of dumplings. He also asked that the next time something is not to my liking, I should tell him right away and he'll fix it immediately or take it off the bill. He's very attentive and eager to please, so I hope others will feel free to voice their complaints about the xiao long bao or other dishes.
Also new on the menu is a small size serving of cumin lamb (also show in a photo insert). I didn't try it, but will have to the next time. Mr. Yao described it as grilled, highly seasoned lamb on small skewers like you'll find on the streets of Beijing.
Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/...
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I've been studying these posts in preparation for my next visit.
I noticed that Bryan mentioned "Vermicelli with Ground Pork" -- is that how zha jiang mian is translated on the menu? Any clues as to what the other dishes featuring the handcut noodles might be?
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I think the zha jiang mian is probably "bean sauce noodles" or some such, if I'm remembering the menu correctly. Of course, you pronounce this so well now, I'm sure your sever will understand you! (g)
If you want the handcut noodles, best to ask, even for zjm. The owner mentioned that they're used for a few dishes where this is integral to the dish. For example, the long-life soup noodles at our chowdown were the handmade ones. For other dishes, like chow mein, factory fresh egg noodles are used.
Fwiw, vermicelli on an English translation of a Chinese menu usually refers to cellophane noodles or the thin round type of rice noodles.
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Just what I need: another restaurant where the staff chuckles when they see me coming because of my fractured Chinese (vbg).
I remember the noodles from your birthday -- excellent, even at the end of the meal when we were well past the point of satiety.
I'll definitely ask for a dish featuring them at on my next trip (maybe I can put something together for this weekend -- I want to take my brother-in-law's sister, who has lived in China and speaks respectable Mandarin).
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When I hear "Vermicelli with Ground Pork" I immediately think of "ma i shang shu" or literally "ants climbing When I hear vermicelli with ground pork I immediately think of a dish called "ma i shang shu", or literally translated as "ants climbing the tree".
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I neglected to mention the one blemish on our dinner: my sister (after her coughing fit) ordered a glass of wine (Ravenswood Vinters Blend) that when it came was obviously "off". They took it back and brought her a glass of Cabernet, which really didn't go well at all with the food.
My mom fared much better with her Tsing Tao, so I think beer is the way to go here. If you really prefer wine, bring your own.
Melanie -- I don't suppose you could barter some wine-list consulting for a Tanjia dinner?
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Hee hee, wine might go well with Tanjia food. But for the most part, the dishes offered here are so complex in seasoning, they call for a certain type of clean, crisp wine that is out of step with current tastes and hard to market. That said, I do remember being impressed with the list of a handful of wines at Singaporean restaurant, Shiok!, that showed some careful consideration of wines friendly to its spicy cuisine.
What I'd really like to see at China Village is some better choices in beer beyond Tsing Tao and Bud.
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I was searching for this thread for another reason, and reading through it was reminded of Melanie's comments about wine. I was struck that, five years later, I think tastes have changed enough that it would be much easier to "market" a list of "clean, crisp" wines that would go with this style of food.
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Gosh, I'd completely forgotten about that. Why did I ever order wine?
But I think you're right about attitudes towards the kinds of wine that would go with this type of food. What a difference five years makes.
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Slanted Door was already doing that five years ago.
This actually deserves its own topic.
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True. But Slanted Door's wine list was a big deal, and my understanding was that it was a pretty hard list to sell, at least at first, which jibes with what Melanie said about "clean, crisp" wines that were "out of step with current tastes and hard to market."
The point I was making is that in just a few years people's attitudes -- at least in the Bay Area -- towards wine, and pairing wine with food, have gotten noticeably more sophisticated, and the types of wines Melanie was describing are no longer as hard to market to restaurant customers. A few years ago it was rare to see more than two or three different whites: Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc, and maybe another (White Zinfandel!) on the typical wine list (I'm not talking about places with extensive wine lists, just the average restaurant that has a one-two page wine list). Now I more typically see at least five different white varietals, including Viognier, Pinot Gris/Grigio, Riesling, Gewurtztraminer, Gruener Veltliner, and other aromatic white wines that are much more food friendly than an oaky California Chardonnay. Or to put it another way, it's one thing to have Vermentino on the list at La Ciccia, and quite another to see it available by the carafe at Sens.
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It also seems to me that even at really high-end restaurants you didn't see many German or Alsatian varietals. A couple of Rieslings, a Gewurz, maybe a Pinot Gris. If restaurants were "branching out," it was usually in the direction of Italian or Rhone varietals (this was before the discovery of Spain....). I'm virtually certain that I never saw a Gruner Veltliner on a wine list until I went to the Slanted Door.
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We go to C.V. three or four times a year and the one occasion we brought a bottle because we had guests, I picked a good sake that went very well with the food. Next time, if I don't choose a sake I'll probably try an Alsatian or German semi-dry white.
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