237482 Wed Feb 27 01:02:55 -0800 2002 21 19 Outer Boroughs 0 1258999 I'm a dedicated hound who is planning a trip to New York. My plan is to spend several days running around the city like a maniac, checking out as many "real" New York neighborhoods as I can. Can you tell me -- where are the top ten epicenters of New York chow? I mean, places where I can emerge from the subway, or take a bus to some intersection, and be in the middle of a whole separate chow universe -- markets, restaurants, signs and menus that aren't in English, sights and smells, and above all excellent chow-quality food? Of course, I've already gone through the New York boards (Manhattan, Outer Boroughs, and "Best of"), and have already accumulated a stack of recommendations for individual places. But I have only a general knowledge of New York -- business visits to Manhattan, the major museums, a couple sights in Brooklyn, but that's about it. I have very little knowledge of the neighborhoods. Names like Flatbush and Brighton Beach are just words to me. A lot of the New York discussions on Chowhound go past me because I don't have the landmarks and collective memory that you have. In short, I want to see particular New York neighborhoods that are amazing, distinctive experiences -- starting with the chow, of course, but including the whole vibe. Any pointers (hopefully with more specific addresses, subway stops, names of boroughs, etc than in the usual postings) would be greatly appreciated, and I think they'd be a huge resource for all chow-minded visitors. Wed Feb 27 01:02:55 -0800 2002 0 Buford 1 1259001 Take the #7 subway to the last stop (Main St) in Queens. You'll be in Flushing and in an Asian food wonderland. It's easy to spend the day exploring, tasting and discovering places. A Taiwanese restaurant I've been to several times that has never failed to please is Laifood at 38-18 Prince Street. There are tons of others however. Do a search on this site before you go for hints. Have fun. Wed Feb 27 06:36:30 -0800 2002 1258999 0 christina z 1 1259006 If I may say, your post is refeshingly delightful and makes me think how fun it would be to do a chow tour of select ethnic neighborhoods. If I were to provide such a tour, it would probably include 3 stops in Brooklyn (Afro-Caribbean East Flatbush, Jewish and Islamic Midwood, and ex-Soviet Brighton), 4 stops in Queens (Chinese and Korean Flushing, Latino and Indo-Pak Jackson Heights, Filipino and Irish Woodside, and Mediterranean and Brazilian Astoria), Chinatown (the granddaddy of NY ethnic neighborhoods) and Afro-Hispanic Harlem in Manhattan, and finish with what is arguably NY's best Little Italy (for touring anyway) Arthur Avenue in the Bronx. Feel free to email for further info. Wed Feb 27 09:33:35 -0800 2002 1258999 0 Jeff Heller 2 1259012 Good choices, though I do not know Brooklyn or the Bronx very well so others can comment on them. Faced with limited time it would be a hard choice between Manhattan & Flushing Chinatowns; I guess if I had to make a choice then I have to say Manhattan offers the most unique experience. If you have the time, doing both would be interesting and allow you to see a few Queens landmarks (can see them from the #7 subway which is elevated in Queens) like Mets stadium and Flushing Meadows with the "as seen in Men in Black" big metal globe. You would pass them when riding the 7 train to the end of the line: Main St. Flushing. It is about 30-40 minutes on the 7 train from Grand Central. To help focus the two Queens epicenters I know most about: Woodside and Jackson Heights. Woodside Irish/Filipino trek is from the 61st St to the 69th St Stations of the 7 train. Also along that path you pass the much discussed Sripraphai Thai restaurant. Then the Jackson Height epicenter starts at 74th street. Depending on your endurance/level of interest you have 1 to 2 days right there. The 61st street #7 stop is about 20 minutes from Grand Central station in Manhattan. cheers. Link: http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/ Wed Feb 27 10:32:28 -0800 2002 1259006 0 wrayb 3 1259018 I was thinking the other day that the Brooklyn N line stops in some unique neighborhoods. 36 street Sunset Park Great spot for Mexican eats, esp the taco stand on 42 and 5th. 8 ave Brooklyn Chinatown, I like Ocean Palace, Jade Palace and much has been posted about new Vietnamese spots on this board. Ave U, 18 Ave- Bensonhurst, NY's Little Italy. Stillwell Ave Coney Island. Wed Feb 27 11:09:52 -0800 2002 1259012 0 josh L 4 1259025 Yeah, and the Queens N line goes to Astoria, another great food neighborhood. Wed Feb 27 11:33:09 -0800 2002 1259018 0 Ian 2 1259016 That's great. Can you help me with specific intersections or subway stops? I have a NYC subway map here. I see the Flatbush neighborhood in Brooklyn and I'm trying to identify Afro-Caribbean East Flatbush. There's the 2/5 line along Nostrand Ave, the easternmost stop of which is Flatbush Av / Brooklyn College. I don't see Midwood marked on the map at all. I do see Brighton. It's near Coney Island, and there's a Brighton Beach subway stop on the D/M/QB line. Is that the right stop? In Queens, I see subway stops that correspond to the names you mentioned, but I could use more specific streets if you have them. At the end of the 7 line there's a Main Street Flushing stop out beyond Flushing Meadows. Is it enough just to emerge from that subway stop, or will I need to walk or take buses or something? The map shows Jackson Heights as being several blocks above the 7 line, the nearest stops being 82nd St / Jackson Heights and 90th St / Elmhurst Ave. I could definitely use some more specifics here. There's a 61st St / Woodside stop along the 7. The map shows Astoria in the NW corner of Queens; there's an Astoria Blvd and a Ditmars Blvd / Astoria stop at the end of the RR. Will it suffice to emerge from the last stop on that line? I'm familiar with Chinatown in downtown Manhattan from previous trips, and I've gathered a bunch of specific Chinatown suggestions from the list. I've been to Harlem, but in a random way. Is there a particular block that might count as the epicenter of Afro-Hispanic chow? Finally, for some reason I'm having trouble identifying the right subway stop for Arthur Avenue in the Bronx. I found a Web site for the neighborhood, which I've attached. But neither map nor Web site nor online mapping sites are helping me to pin it down on a map. Any help much appreciated! Link: http://www.arthuravenuebronx.com/ Wed Feb 27 10:54:16 -0800 2002 1259006 0 Buford 3 1259022 Just a tip: The NYC subway has changed a bunch of times in the last few months, both because of the World Trade Center thing and construction. Make sure you have an updated map, maybe the one on the MTA's web site is best. (For example, the D train doesn't run in Brooklyn right now.) As for Flushing, just get off at the last 7 stop and you can't miss it. And I think the best train for Coney and Brighton is probably the Q. The MTA also has an info line at (718) 330-1234 you could call, except you'll probably have to wait on hold for a while. Wed Feb 27 11:27:42 -0800 2002 1259016 0 Ian 4 1259059 Yeah, just emerge from the last stop of the #7, at Main & Roosevelt, & drink it all in. You want signs not in English? You got it! Especially fun to ride in the front of the first car of the 7 train, looking out the window as you go along. One tip I can give is to search on this board for the several postings with 7-train itineraries. There have been some excellent suggestions. And don't miss Sripraphai. Not exactly in a noticeably Thai enclave (except for a few nearby storefronts,) but worthy of a pilgrimage from a great distance. For Jackson Hts, the S. Asian places are around the 74th St stop. It's more S. American between 74th & Junction Blvd stops, and plenty of Mexican places along the way. Many, many recommendations on this board for places around this major epicenter. If you want directions or more opinions on specific ones that interest you, just ask. Just how many days/meals do you have for this adventure? Wed Feb 27 16:13:45 -0800 2002 1259022 0 Helen F 5 1259074 I didn't know about the subway changes! I've printed out a new map from the MTA Web site, link attached. I'll definitely wear out a subway pass. I have about four days for my chow-hunting in New York. I figure I can eat two meals a day and have room for random stuff from bakeries and street vendors. So if I'm disciplined I can sample the chow from all the major neighborhoods that people are mentioning. I usually do these things with either a guidebook or else a batch of specific recommendations that I visit in connect-the-dots fashion. I'll presumably do some of that this time (and I do know about Jim Leff's book, though I haven't seen it), but I also want to try the neighborhood-centered approach. That way I have a slight chance of discovering something that the hound flock doesn't already know about. Link: http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/submap.htm Wed Feb 27 17:22:06 -0800 2002 1259059 0 Buford 6 1259085 I could really go on and on about this topic - there are so many chow epicenters in NY - they arent all pretty but they are all over the place - I have to second Brighton Beach Ave. - one street food highlight is pontchiks - bried bread, like a big savory dooughnutt with meat, cabbage fruit etc. fillings. I think the place that sold them out of a front window was White Acacia - but the name may have changed. There is a boardwalk down to Coney Island - with the Brooklyn Aquarium, if your interests extend beyond food. The stretch under and around the 7 Line from the Woodside Station, to 74th or 82nd Street in Jackson Heights. A world tour in maybe a mile,with a mix that changes all the time. Highlights for me, but just barely scratching the surface, are Sripaphai, Krystal's Filipino (for their wild purple pastries), (Ilhawan with their killer barbecue is right around there too but Ive sadly not yet been), the big Korean Supermarket in the ex-A&P on the n. side of roosevelt just east of the BQE (there is a little Korean enclave in that part of the strip), the grocery stores and snack stands in the 74th St/37th Ave (1 block N. of Roosevelt) and vicinity indian enclave - I rec particularly Dimple for Indian Snacks/chaat and the Subzi Mandi for groceries/produce. Queens' Broadway crosses Roosevelt at 74th - follow it east a bit and you will see a malaysian rest, Rasa Sayang that some like. Continue farther in that direction (think its the F line) and you will come to Elmhurst another good chow spot with multi asian cuisines, a lot of posts about this. Follow Roosevelt instead of Bway and you will be in the midst of a fascinating hispanic (from many countries) stew, with street vendors peeling oranges, chopping coconuts, cooking tortillas probably just as they do in their homelands. Endless opportunities to eat and snack and look. I dont think anyone has mentioned Greenpoint, and I havent seen any food recs from there for a while, but it is an interesting and largely polish neighborhood if your tastes run that direction. 5th Avenue N. of 86th Street in Bay Ridge Brooklyn (R to 86th St) is an interesting vital ethnic melange, with greek, middle eastern,irish, scandinavian, italian all cheek by jowl. 3rd Ave. also has a big shopping strip with many mideast stores. Karam on 4th Avenue/86th is my first food choice in that area, Leshkos bakery on 5th in the 70s in special, a now-rare scandinavian in a nabe that used to be chocabloc with norwegians swedes etc. Curry Hill in Manhattan East 20s - lots of restaurants and especially wonderful spice shops for the Indian population, including wonderful Kalyustan. Arthur Ave. in the Bronx - I note it because it is good combined with a trip to the Bronx botanic or Bronx Zoo. subway connections are poor since they took down the "el" but there is a Metronorth Stop at the Botanic Garden. If you are in NY chinatown, Grand Street is a fascinating strip to visit, with all the Chinese newcomers and some wonderful old Italian Stores (Alleva, Di Paolo and the Italian Food Center) The Brooklyn Chinatown 8th between 61st and say 53rd - N train I think) is not as compelling or glossy as that in Flushing or Manhattan but it is a major concentration at this point (with a turkish cluster at 60th Street). Top attraction to me at this time is the best bahn mi in the city at 55th at 8th (an dong) and 60-61 and 7th (ba xuyen) and the great cheap markets. etc. etc. etc. Wed Feb 27 18:19:29 -0800 2002 1259074 0 jen kalb 7 1259103 Re: chowcenters By all means, take the #7 train into Queens and get off at the various stops that have previously been mentioned. Don't worry about exact locations of restaurants. Wander around the neighborhoods and take in the atmosphere. YOu truly will be able to take in all of the different cultures that seem to all blend in together. I would make 74th Street the starting off point of the trip. Besides the #7 train (which I strongly urge you to take...it is above ground from just after you enter Queens to just before the last stop on Main Street), you can also get there on the E or F trains from the City (i.e., Manhattan.) In any event, do try some of the Indian restaurants previously mentioned. I am not a big fan of the Jackson Diner. Delhi Palace was much better. Lots of good stuff, however, also said about the Dimple Restaurant. From there I would walk up or down Roosevelt Avenue and the side streets for 10 or 20 blocks (don't worry the blocks are sort of short in length) to take in all of the different Hispanic cultures and their accompanying restaurants/markets etc. I would then get back on the #7 train and take it to Main Street. From the intersection of Main Street and Roosevelt Avenue, I would start walking west on Roosevelt Ave. (towards Shea Stadium) for a block or so and you will be in the heart of Flushing's Chinatown. Lots of great dim sum restaurants, bakeries, markets, etc. Again, part of the fun of exploring a neighborhood is going into a store that you never heard of and taking in the sounds, sights, and the food. ( I recently went to Curry Hill and went into a restaurant that I thought was Indian and was somewhat taken by surprise when I saw that they were serving beef. As it turns out, it was Pakastani and the food was equally as good!) If you want to explore more of Queens, get back on the #7 train and go to Queensboro Plaza, go upstairs, and take the Astoria Train all the way to the last stop, Ditmars Boulevard. This is also an elevated train and gives you another good view of some of the older parts of Queens. Ditmars Boulevard is the hub of Astoria...Queens' (and the United States') largest Greek neighborhood. Lots of great places to go in, buy baklava, feta cheese, etc. Hop back on the Astoria train and go back into the City. I would make my final epicurian stop to be the Lower East Side. As another person wrote, Grand Street is truly a gem. Start in Chinatown and wind your way through Little Italy and then go to all of the Jewish places farther east. Some of the best bagels and bialys in the City are to be found on Grand Street. (You could also go to ORchard Street---visit all the stores there and take a left once you get to Houston Street. Go a few blocks to Russ and Daughters for a true Jewish appetizer store. The nova and other smoked salmong there is to die for...as are their dark chocolates. And if you had more time, you could go to some real hidden gems that NY offers....the Whitestone Deli (which many people claim has the best potato salad in NYC) and Stork's Bakery in Whitestone...Ninth Avenue in Manhattan...Curry Hill (Lexington Avenue in the lower and middle Twenty's)...and one of my true all time favorites, Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn. Have a great time! Bill Wed Feb 27 22:05:15 -0800 2002 1259085 0 Bill 8 1259514 I also looked up the health department's report on Dimple. It's most of a year out of date, so it probably bears no relation to current conditions. It's just another reminder that we're putting our lives in the health department's hands. Link: http://207.127.96.244/cgi-bin/ibi_cgi/webapi.dll?IBIF_ex=VIOLATE&CLICKED_ON=&RLIST=40828905&D1=4 Sat Mar 09 17:45:27 -0800 2002 1259103 0 Buford 9 1259517 While those reports from the Health Dept. can be disconcerting, keep in mind that the Health Dept. restaurant inspections are a major revenue stream for the City. NYC restaurant inspections are designed to find at least one violation, preferably a major one, in every restaurant inspected, whether or not there is any risk to the public health. Most restauranteurs (and I have been one for 25 years) consider the fines a cost of doing business and do not contest violations even if they would be likely to have them dismissed. (I once made a lengthy explanation of how this works but I can't find it via the search feature) While I have no doubt that the Health Dept. would take credit for this in spite of their spotty inspection record, there has not been a major outbreak (more than 10 identified cases from a single source within a week) of food borne disease in NYC in years if not decades. It is decidedly not in a restaurant's general best interest to make its' customers sick. For the most part restaurants are safer places to eat than homes. Sat Mar 09 22:17:59 -0800 2002 1259514 0 Deven Black 7 1259513 Out of curiosity, I asked the NY health department what they thought about Krystal's Pastries. A link to the unhappy answer is attached. This is the thing about being a hound: it's great to go sampling all this excellent food, but you're really putting your life in the hands of the restaurant inspectors. On the whole I'm willing to take the risk, but I sure do hope the restaurant inspectors are doing their jobs. Link: http://207.127.96.244/cgi-bin/ibi_cgi/webapi.dll?IBIF_ex=VIOLATE&CLICKED_ON=&RLIST=40566887&D1=4 Sat Mar 09 17:43:18 -0800 2002 1259085 0 Buford 6 1259114 The subway system changes are week to week. For example the world trade center stop of the E train is open again for about a week. It was my regular stop going to work. Went the first time yesterday. Phew. The main times to be aware of for major subway changes are after 11pm and weekends. This has nothing to do with 9/11. Just the ongoing work on a huge old but functioning transit system. Link: http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/service/subsrvno.htm Thu Feb 28 01:08:14 -0800 2002 1259074 0 wrayb 3 1259053 Just pick up a new map (and a Metrocard; this Michigan hound has one in his wallet 24/7) at any subway station. Your map is over ten years old! And when you buy a Metrocard, or put more money on it, always buy $15 or more ... you get an additional 10% credit ... spend $15, you get credit for $16.50 ... 11 rides for the cost of 10 Wed Feb 27 15:57:28 -0800 2002 1259016 0 Timowitz 3 1259174 Arthur Avenue is tough to get to by subway. The closest stop is Fordham road on the D line and a pretty long trek east in the direction of the Bronx Zoo. With Metrocards, you can get a free transfer from the train to the bus. There's a bus that goes along Fordham Road, the Bx 12, which you can catch from the 207th stop on the A or the 1, the Fordham stop on the D or the 4, or the Pelham Parkway stops on the 2 or the 5. You could also take the Metro-North train from Grand Central to Fordham Road, which will be quicker but more expensive. The walk to Arthur Avennue is still a hike, though, albeit closet than the D. Thu Feb 28 16:34:29 -0800 2002 1259016 0 JackS 1 1259013 Sounds like a good idea for a trip. Go to: 1) The end of the #7 line in Queens for the most amazing variey of Asian food. 2) Coney Island at the south end of B'klyn for Nathan's, and then a walk down the boardwalk to Brighton Beach and all its Russian fare. 3) The East Village, my favorite 'hood for finding cheap and great food of every variety. (6 train to Astor Place and walk SE) 4) Every place else in NYC that you can get to, because there's great east all over. Wed Feb 27 10:34:18 -0800 2002 1258999 0 Ian 1 1259108 Brighton Beach is an amazing place. One of the best places on Brighton Beach Avenue for Russian food is M & I International. It is one of the largest stores. The pierogi are excellent..a little salty and buttery but very very good. The appetizing is amazing .. all types of fish that I have not come across in other neighborhoods. There are baked goods up and down the Avenue. And so long as you are there...a stop at Mrs. Stahls knishes is still worthwhile. They still make a mean knish. Thu Feb 28 00:12:48 -0800 2002 1258999 0 Stew W. 1 1259395 If you go to Flushing, the downtown area has more Chinese restaurants with a sprinkling of others like Malaysian and Vietnamese, especially on the side streets along the northwest side of the LIRR station/overpass at Main Street. I would go out of my way to sample the Korean in Flushing as (I think) it is the largest Korean neighborhood in the US, or even anywhere outside of Korea. The downtown of Flushing is mostly Chinese merchants, but the majority of the population is Korean. If you travel east/northeast from the downtown area, generally up to and along Northern blvd, you will find a lot of good Korean restaurants. Another area area in NYC dubbed "Koreatown" is in Manhattan between 7th Ave & Broadway from around 30th to 33rd streets. It's loaded with Korean and Korean/Japanese restaurants, but the Korean restaurants in Flushing are better in quality and value. If you go to Woodside for Irish, there are a number of very excellent authentic-feeling Irish pubs. Problem is they generally do not serve food, so you won't really find much variety in way of Irish eateries. One place however is Kilmegan's with a restaurant and a separate pub area with live music on the weekends. Another area for Indian restaurants besides Jackson Heights and "Curry Hill" is Richmond Hill at the intersection of Atlantic Ave and Lefferts Blvd. This area is mostly Sikh Punjabi. The food is great and one of the best values going for Indian in NY. I think Richmond Hill is typical of a trend in formerly "Indian-Pakistani-Bangladeshi" food in NYC going regional as certain neighborhoods are settled by specific groups. Richmond Hill is Sikh-Punjabi, Coney Island Ave is Pakistani, Staten Island is Sri Lankan, and (I think) Bellerose/Oakland Gardens is South Indian/Keralan. The other side of this trend is the demise of the general Indian or "Indian-Pakistani-Bangladeshi" restaurants, which seem to become ever blander as they try to attract as wide a (non-"Indian") clientele as possible. This seems to be the fate of 6th Street in the East Village, the first casualty (which could be revived as a Bangladeshi center as it seems mostly Bangladeshi owned and operated), and is possible for "Curry Hill" and Jackson Heights, although the number of South Asian workers and shoppers in those areas may keep them viable. Other areas with a twist on Indian include the Guyanese neighborhood, also in Richmond Hill, along Jamaica Ave. I don't know of any specific restaurants and haven't heard much about this area on here either. Ripe to explore. Outside Forest Hills there are a number of Kosher Uzbeki retaurants, which meld Indian/Pakistani/Persian into Russian. Speaking of Persian, there are a number of restaurants, Kosher & non-Kosher, between Bayside & Great Neck. Ok, enough. Wed Mar 06 10:55:06 -0800 2002 1258999 0 mac 2 1259535 I forgot to mention Donovan's for food in Woodside! Sun Mar 10 21:59:40 -0800 2002 1259395 0 mac