237027 Mon Dec 03 13:00:21 -0800 2001 22 19 Outer Boroughs 0 1256434 This past weekend I finally checked out Bierkraft, on 5th Avenue. What a letdown! The selection of Belgians offers nothing out of the ordinary, and the prices are astronimical. Some of the larger bottles are $3.00 more than in other places in the area (e.g. Ace Supermarket, International Taste, American Distributor, and several delis in Fort Greene). A small bottle of Chimay Grande Reserve was priced at $6.00, which is what most bars usually charge. Definitely will not be returning unless the prices are marked down. Mon Dec 03 13:00:21 -0800 2001 0 Brooklyn Boy 1 1256574 Well, I agree. But then again Mr. Scholz is such a nice person and really seems to know his beers. Sure you could buy them cheaper, taste them all, and be disappointed. Or you ask Herr Scholz, and he'll tell you to stay away from Cechvar unless it's the brown bottle and to try Jever Pilsner if you want German Pilsner that's not dumbed down. (I guess you could also read this post). He'll also tell you that Schneider is the best Hefeweizen you can get hereabouts, and much more. I say support them for a while and see if they can come down with their prices once they recover some of their initial investment. Did you notice they are not storing the beer on the floor or in the back like your favorite discount store? Instead they have cold storage lockers. That stuff costs money (and electricity!). Tue Dec 11 14:54:27 -0800 2001 1256434 0 guglhupf 2 1256608 But for people who are already knowledgable about beer it's ridiculous to pay significantly higher prices for beers that are easily available at nearby deli's and distributors. Cold storage does not necessarily improve the quality of certain beers. Wed Dec 12 13:58:34 -0800 2001 1256574 0 DeeDee 3 1256674 > Wrong! It makes a big difference for virtually all beers. Although it seems to me that if the guy wants to steer us to a non-dumbed-down pils, it should be Jever on draft and not in those damn green bottles. Mercaptan, anyone? Better Victory Pils or, if you can find it, Tupper's Pils in brwon bottles and from relatively nearby. David Edelstein Brownstone Brooklyn Sun Dec 16 00:25:34 -0800 2001 1256608 0 David Edelstein 4 1256691 I don't think cold storage makes that much difference at the retail level, given that the beer almost certainly sat at room temperature in the wholesaler's warehouse, and likely in transit as well. Agreed on Victory and Tuppers'! Sun Dec 16 20:59:05 -0800 2001 1256674 0 Jim Dorsch 5 1256703 I agree. I purchase a lot of my beer at disbtributors that keep it at room temperature and it's always been good enough for me. Mon Dec 17 09:33:02 -0800 2001 1256691 0 Brooklyn Boy 6 1256719 A steady temperature -- whether cold or warm (but not hot!) is much better for beer than frequent changes in storage temperature. And one generally should be more concerned about exposure to light than about all but the most extreme temperature changes. Mon Dec 17 13:10:02 -0800 2001 1256703 0 Deven Black 4 1256718 Personally I'm not a fan of pilsners (I think they are all dumbed down, including Jever). I'm very knowledgeable about beer and therefore don't really seek a lot of advice from store owners. What matters to me (and to many others I suspect) is selection and price. I found the prices to be outrageous and the selection (at least at this early stage) to be lacking in comparison to other stores and distributors. Mon Dec 17 13:01:53 -0800 2001 1256674 0 DeeDee 5 1256722 Can you explain what you mean when you say all pilsners are dumbed down? Mon Dec 17 14:39:55 -0800 2001 1256718 0 Jim Dorsch 6 1256747 I simply don't care for pilsners and I have tasted many of them -- they just don't have enough flavor for my tastes. They all seem watered down to me. I like beers with more bite such as Belgian beers. Tue Dec 18 09:45:39 -0800 2001 1256722 0 DeeDee 7 1256751 My personal tastes seem similar to yours, but I have beer-loving friends who are quite fond of pilsners, and I wouldn't say they're dumbed down, as these people have excellent palates and extensive knowledge of beer. Tue Dec 18 10:44:10 -0800 2001 1256747 0 Jim Dorsch 8 1256775 Pilsners can be sublime. The best are clean and crisp with a low malt profile and lots of aroma and bitterness from noble Czech hops. It's a mistake to ignore one of the world's great beer styles simply because it has been bastardized by American and bad German (i.e. Beck's) conglomerates. There is a time for ale, a time for stout, a time for Belgians, a time for pilsners... Turn, turn, turn David Edelstein Brownstone Brooklyn Wed Dec 19 06:02:35 -0800 2001 1256751 0 David Edelstein 9 1256776 My friend Bob Tupper sells both an ale and a pils. He tells me that while overall, Tuppers' Hop Pocket Ale greatly outsells Tuppers' Hop Pocket Pils, often when he's doing a tasting in a beverage store, the pils sells more than the ale. People who like the 'true pilsner' taste of Miller Lite try Tuppers' and are aghast. If they haven't tasted it, people who would like Tuppers' Pils are afraid it will taste like Miller Lite. The word 'pilsner' has really taken a beating over the years. Wed Dec 19 08:33:26 -0800 2001 1256775 0 Jim Dorsch 10 1256823 --"My friend Bob Tupper sells both an ale and a pils. He tells me that while overall, Tuppers' Hop Pocket Ale greatly outsells Tuppers' Hop Pocket Pils, often when he's doing a tasting in a beverage store, the pils sells more than the ale. The word 'pilsner' has really taken a beating over the years." Your friend Bob Tupper is a hero. Anyone who has a chance should taste Tuppers Pils (I believe you can find it in NJ but not NY; certainly PA, VA, DC, etc.)Check the date bottled, though, and try not to drink anything older than 6 months (if that). Being light-bodied and clean, great pilsners are fragile things. Tupper's is as good as it gets in this country. I also suggest--in the absence of Tupper's--Victory Prima Pils (very hoppy). Stoudt's Pils is even better when fresh on tap; I've never seen it bottled. (And in NYC I've only had it on tap once, at the Collins Bar on 8th in Manhattan.) Much blander and variable but often more than decent is Brooklyn Pilsner (not to be confused with Brooklyn Lager). Then, of course, there's Pilsner Urquell and Jever ON TAP ONLY. Czechvar is a decent alternative but only, as has been mentioned, in the larger brown bottles. David Edelstein Brownstone Brooklyn Thu Dec 20 14:30:12 -0800 2001 1256776 0 David Edelstein 11 1256827 While I don't care for pilsners, I love the Collins Bar on 46th Street. Great atmosphere and selection. Do you frequent their other bar in Brooklyn -- The Gate? Thu Dec 20 16:48:42 -0800 2001 1256823 0 DeeDee 12 1256834 Just got home from The Gate, actually. We brought in burgers from Bonnie's Grill, I had a Magic Hat #9...The Gate is a mellow hangout, with a great, great beer selection. Fri Dec 21 01:25:27 -0800 2001 1256827 0 Nina Wugmeister 8 1256780 I'd be interested to hear what your favorite bars are for beer in the five boroughs. Wed Dec 19 09:45:57 -0800 2001 1256751 0 DeeDee 9 1256784 I live in VA, and almost never travel to NYC, so I'm not your best source of information! Certainly dba would be on the list. There used to be (I think still is) a crazy place in the Village called BURP Castle. Are those in the five boroughs? That means the bulk of NYC, right? Wed Dec 19 10:48:52 -0800 2001 1256780 0 Jim Dorsch 10 1256794 Sorry I thought you were here in NYC. I have a long list of bars with excellent beer but I'm always hoping that there's one out there that I don't know about. So far, there haven't been any new ones. What places are there in VA? I lived in D.C. years ago. Wed Dec 19 14:52:15 -0800 2001 1256784 0 DeeDee 11 1256808 I always watch for beer threads; that's why you found me in the middle of this thread! Out in Leesburg there's Tuscarora Mill, a nice restaurant with a good bar with fun stuff like Belgians on tap. Of course, in DC there's the Brickskeller. Wed Dec 19 22:16:47 -0800 2001 1256794 0 Jim Dorsch 12 1256813 What an amazing place! Dark, cosy and chock-full of great beer. It was the perfect anidote to a muggy summer day. I'll definitely return on my next visit to DC. Thu Dec 20 10:21:27 -0800 2001 1256808 0 Brooklyn Boy 2 1256613 Methinks I can guess the identity of guglhupf...! And show me a retail store that has significantly lowered its prices--permanently--on all of its items after its launch. But I truly hope Mr. Scholz is able to level out his pricing because he does have supporters who want him to succeed. Wed Dec 12 14:20:35 -0800 2001 1256574 0 joycekaye 3 1256628 This is great. Please do reveal my true identity, I can hardly wait ;) Thu Dec 13 15:21:18 -0800 2001 1256613 0 guglhupf