236611 Sun Aug 05 14:36:33 -0700 2001 50 19 Outer Boroughs 0 1254419 After fifteen years in New York City and five and a half in Park Slope, we’ve finally decided to pack up our things and light out for the territories. Goodbye, then, to Lemongrass Grill, with its sweet-and-heavy all-purposes sauces and flavorless Pad Thai with soggy-Saran-wrap-textured baby shrimp. Goodbye to Cousin John’s, with its jus-de-chausettes coffee, flaccid croissants, and out-to-lunch servers. Goodbye to Mr. Wonton with its chicken broth that starts cooking five minutes before service, its leaden dumplings, its glutenous brown sauces, its misanthropic manager. Goodbye to La Tacqueria, with its cumin-laden Mexican rice, its scowling counter staff. Goodbye to Convivium, with its management so rude that I couldn’t even get in the door. Goodbye to Geiko, with its underseasoned sushi rice. Goodbye to the other sushi restaurants that are so awful or forgettable that I don’t even bother remembering their names. Goodbye to the pretend Moroccan place that was such a joke I don’t bother remembering its name. Goodbye to El Rey de los Castillos de Jagua, whose food we used to tolerate because the wait staff was so nice until one day the manager charged us for a la carte chicken, a la carte rice and a la carte beans because we didn’t say "chicken special" even though we had been ordering it every week for the past five years. Goodbye to the Dominican place across Flatbush that was so disgustingly dirty we never returned. Goodbye to Fratelli with its $9 ravioli and the one counter guy with his "the customer is always wrong" attitude. Goodbye to diners that charge $9 for a heap of iceberg lettuce topped with lunchmeat and signs that say no strollers allowed. (My kid has outgrown his, but still...) Goodbye to La Cucina, with its sixty dollar mediocre chiantis and pretentious preparations. Goodbye to Max & Moritz, with its chef who doesn’t care what a customer thinks; after all, look at all the people lined up to eat there. Goodbye to that most disgusting supermarket, Key Foods. Goodbye to the absence of cheese and good meat. Goodbye to Regina Bakery with its four-day old cookies and the red cat shedding in the corner. Farewell and best wishes to Al Di La, to Olive Vine (though I’d spring for real plates at those prices), to Bonnie’s Grill (we’ll miss the beef-on-weck and the warm welcomes), to Uprising Bread Bakery. Hello to fish tacos, to carnitas, to homemade corn tortillas, albondigas soup. Hello to Apple Pan and In-and-Out burgers, to wonderful sushi, to better Thai food in just about any little joint than what we find here. Hello to wor won ton soup and Chinese chicken salad, to Knudsen small curd cottage cheese. Hello to Koreatown! Hello to the brave new world of southern California Vietnamese food! Hello to the universe of regional Chinese foods in the San Gabriel Valley! Hello to great dim sum! Hello to good tomatoes nine months of the year, to Santa Rosa plums, to tasty peaches. Hello to the Santa Monica farmers’ market. Hello to Gelson’s, with its wide, clean aisles and lower prices than Key Foods. Hello to Meyer lemons! I can’t wait to come back to L.A.! Sun Aug 05 14:36:33 -0700 2001 0 Leslie Brenner 1 1254420 While I always enjoyed your posts and look forward to more from Los Angeles, it seems as if you're adopting a scorched earth policy to your former home. Based on a content analysis I counted - 28 negative references to Brooklyn and New York 5 positive references " " " 21 positive references to Los Angeles along with the tag line "I can’t wait to come back to L.A.!" When you arrive, be sure to say hello to earthquakes, O.J., race riots, mudslides, the worst air quality in the country, the worst traffic in the country, racist and corrupt cops, and rolling blackouts. Leslie, after your many excellent and balanced posts I expected better of you. Sun Aug 05 16:10:52 -0700 2001 1254419 0 Lex 2 1254421 I'm sorry, Lex, but the point of my post was simply how much I detest the food in Park Slope and how much I look forward to the food in L.A., nothing more. I love New York, and in many, many ways it's difficult for me to leave. I especially love the people. And I love the food in much of New York, but not in this corner of Brooklyn. And of course I know there's plenty wrong with L.A., which is why I left fifteen years ago. No place is perfect, but I prefer to look at the best attributes of where I'm going rather than the worst. And if you want to continue a New York vs. L.A. debate, I'd love to, but I guess we should move that to the Not About Food board. Thank you, by the way, for your kind words. Sun Aug 05 16:23:50 -0700 2001 1254420 0 Leslie Brenner 3 1254422 Leslie, sorry to see you go, but we've got an awesome LA squad. So even though you're moving 3000 miles, you'll still have a support group of like-minded chowhounds! ciao Sun Aug 05 16:38:54 -0700 2001 1254421 0 Jim Leff 4 1254423 Thanks Jim. I've been checking out (and posting to) the L.A. board for some time. My excitement about the food as written about there makes the transition so much easier--it does seem to be a great squad. And I'll be checking in regularly to see what the outer borough (and Manhattan) hounds are up to... Sun Aug 05 17:54:13 -0700 2001 1254422 0 Leslie Brenner 5 1254424 As a loyal Sloper and L.A.-phobe, I still agree with almost every word you wrote. Max & Moritz is especially disgusting and I'm glad someone has said it publicly. And to think what you left out! But Key Food is LEAGUES better than the Dag at the other end... You'll most appreciate the supermarkets when you return to L.A. The first time I went to a middling chain in S.F. I nearly wept--produce that smelled of the vine, all my favorite CA Pinot Noirs at rock-bottom prices... At least we don't have earthquakes. David Edelstein Brownstone Brooklyn Sun Aug 05 18:07:48 -0700 2001 1254423 0 David Edelstein 3 1254428 Leslie, what I objected to was the straw man comparison of the dining options in Park Slope, a middling size neighborhood in an outer bourough, to all of the offerings of Greater Los Angeles. Simply put, it ain't fair. I agree with all of your observations about the poor restaurant selection in the Slope, but really, did you move there for fine dining? Like Humphrey Bogart in Casablanca, did you "come for the waters"? If so, you were misinformed. Park Slope is a neighborhood of Victorian brownstones and tree lined streets, in easy commuting distance of lower Manhattan via convenient public transportation. I assume that is the reason you moved there in the first place and that the neighborhood, for the most part, lived up to those expectations. If you bought your apartment or home back in 1996 when you moved in, you also made 50% to 75% on your investment so you've got a little something in your pocket as you move west. I look forward to your obsevations on your new neighborhood and will miss your insights on the New York scene. Good luck. Sun Aug 05 22:59:03 -0700 2001 1254421 0 Lex 3 1254429 Best wishes in L.A. The car in L.A., I assume, will make it much easier for you to roam the city with your child. Without a car, even for an intrepid Chowhound, it is often soul-crushing to contemplating going on the subway on hot, humid days in NYC. Which is why we end up eating in our neighborhoods, even if the food isn't optimal. So even though L.A. is so huge, it is often easier to be a Chowhound. I can't figure out where you find those great tomatoes 9 months a year, but otherwise I understand your excitement about returning to L.A. Mon Aug 06 01:02:46 -0700 2001 1254421 0 Dave Feldman 4 1254436 LA has nothing on Brooklyn. We have the culture, history, passion, brownstones, And you can explore it all on foot. LA has fast food and ranch houses, great if you like the burbs!! You'll be day dreaming about Ozzies in about a week BRING THE DODGERS BACK TO BROOKLYN!!!!! Mon Aug 06 17:48:58 -0700 2001 1254429 0 josh 5 1254439 If you like Asian and Mexican food, L.A. is a much better chowhound town than N.Y.C. Mon Aug 06 19:35:27 -0700 2001 1254436 0 Leslie Brenner 6 1254456 As a native New Yorker, I am an avowed, averred, accredited L.A. hater. I hate the fact that it's a city of pod people, one person/pod driving to go anywhere through the 50 suburbs with the chutzpah to imagine itself a city. Should L.A. be subjected to another conflagration, I will be breaking out the extra large marshmallows. HOWEVER. Even I have to admit that when it comes to Chinese food. L.A. kicks NYC's ass concave. The variety, authenticity and quality of San Gabriel valley Chinese food is just astonishing. Probably the best Chinese food Chowhounding in the entire western world. Tue Aug 07 09:46:21 -0700 2001 1254439 0 Roger Lee 7 1254502 LA has the edge on Mexican food- but NYC competes in the Asian category. We have three large communities with a polehora of fine complex Asian food. And you cann take mass transportation!! Wed Aug 08 10:28:57 -0700 2001 1254456 0 josh 1 1254426 Aah, Leslie, I'm really sorry to see you go. Park Slope will be the poorer without your fearless advocacy. Much of what you say is true about food in Park Slope (at least IMHO), but I still like living here. I lived in LA many years ago (late 60s till mid 70s) and loved it, but things bigger than my wants or needs brought me back to NYC, probably forever. There are so many things about Southern Cal that I still miss, but I gotta admit, I love the seasons, I love the in-your-face NYC `tude, I love the many conveniences (expensive as they are) of life in this city. Your post made it sound like you feel like you just had to get out of NYC, a feeling I've never had, so I can't say I know how you feel. All I can say is that I'll miss your observations on Park Slope life. And I will be very curious to hear your comparisons after some time in LA. I'm not so interested in what you think upon your arrival (although I wouldn't mind reading those thoughts either); I'd be more interested to hear what you have to say after several months, when the newness has worn off. In any event, good luck. Hope it all works out for you. Sun Aug 05 20:21:02 -0700 2001 1254419 0 George Lynch 1 1254431 Okay...for real I had to holla for all the real residents of Bucktown...ya heard. You cannot compare you're pseudo-suburban Park Slope experience (which you seem to use to represent NY/Bklyn) to L.A. Youre statment intimates to me that you don't know or understand Medina. The problem with Park Slope establishments is indicative a greater problem in gentrified NY neighborhoods. Non-NYers move in and expect their commodofied pseudo-authentic disneyworld ethnic cafeteria. Ethnic consumption. Of course the food is gonna suck, how many people of color live in Park Slope... People have indicated from their posts that you do put it down informatively so it baffles me why you would try to take PS and compare to People of Color communities in LA. Compare Sunset Park, Bed Stuy, Corona, etc. Not Park Slope. Bucktown, NYC don't get it twisted... Holla. Mon Aug 06 11:32:52 -0700 2001 1254419 0 the Mad Chowhound 2 1254441 I agree with much of what you said (and all of what Lex said...it's indeed wrong to compare a nabe to an entire city). But I know lots of people of remarkably light complexion who cook up a storm, and I don't think soulfulness is really a melanin issue. But I liked "commodofied pseudo-authentic disneyworld ethnic cafeteria" a lot. To move into a dull-but-"charming" nabe like Park Slope and complain about limited food choices therein strikes me as a bit odd. If you want great food near home, live....well, pretty much anywhere else (except the upper west side). Or get on the subway and explore. There are chowhounds in, like, Montana, who have to drive an hour even for a mediocre dinner. One fifteen minute subway ride from Park Slope will transport you to copious lands of plenty, and chowhounding is all about pursuing those opportunities with wild abandon. This city is so full of incredible treasure, and it's all there for the picking (and we treasure hunters even have a forum in which to compare notes!). But if Leslie's fed up with NY (and she surely has other reasons than the sodden home fries,etc, on 7th ave), we all wish her brighter horizons in LA. Change is good! ciao Mon Aug 06 20:52:59 -0700 2001 1254431 0 Jim Leff 3 1254445 Hmmm. I can't think of that many interesting chow destinations fifteen minutes on the subway from Park Slope (maybe there are a handful?). I'd love to hear about them--I'll try to check them out in the two weeks before I go. As for my sin of comparing a neighborhood with a city, I'm looking at what I can get to easily (as Jim suggests, within fifteen minutes on the subway) with what I'll be able to get to in fifteen minutes from just about anywhere I'll put down stakes in L.A. Apples and oranges, perhaps, but pragmatically speaking not so different. And maybe I'll sound silly, but I guess I was "misinformed" about the 'hood before I came here. There are dozens of food writers and lots of others in the food biz who live here, and I still find it perplexing that there aren't more good food choices. And when I think of what's closed in the past couple years--the only butcher, the only cheese shop, etc. You're right, Jim. Chowhounds need to get out there and explore. With a small child and no car (this is a lousy place to own one) chowhounding from this locale is real tough. That's partly why I want out! Tue Aug 07 00:43:12 -0700 2001 1254441 0 Leslie Brenner 4 1254447 within 15 minutes by subway from park slope -- let's say that's 6 stops -- there are (2, 3 train outbound): tons of excellent jamaican places great barbadian at culpeppers on nostrand ave (F train outbound) georgian at ditmas Av uzbeki at 13th av and 39th street (also ditmas) and, within a few blocks of the church ave sta., several very good mexican joints haitian great punjabi desserts (D train outbound) very good guyanese at church ave and if you're willing to walk to the botanic garden and hop on the franklin avenue shuttle, there is also a big range of african places on fulton st. happy final foraging, andy Tue Aug 07 02:18:39 -0700 2001 1254445 0 andy n 5 1254455 Thanks for the suggestions, Andy. But realistically, the F train itself is a 15 minute walk from here, so that eliminates quite a bit. I've eaten at some of the Jamaican and Trinidadian places around Nostrand. I suppose I'm not crazy about most Caribbean food--my own failing, I'm sure. My diatribe about the lack of good eats in the Slope was purely personal--my goodbyes! I don't by any means intend to suggest that there's nothing in Brooklyn anyone would want to eat. It's a matter of taste, as these things always are. And yes, I am a little bitter about Park Slope. My rent has been raised 70% in the past three years (no, we didn't buy when we moved here), and I'm in the midst of watching an exodus of less-than-affluent writers, artists, musicians, etc. leave and be replaced by stockbrokers, lawyers, and so on. Racial slurs, anti-gay remarks, and comments about "the wrong kind of people" have replaced complaints about the strollers blocking the sidewalk. I never felt it was just a "boring 'burb" before, but I am starting to feel that way. I am, however, much more happy (to try something new) than bitter... Tue Aug 07 09:42:25 -0700 2001 1254447 0 Leslie Brenner 6 1254460 Leslie, it sounds like some of your problems with Park Slope were economic. Without a car you are certainly more restricted in your restaurant choices, especially on weekends. (During the week most of us who work in Manhattan can stop off at a restaurant on the way home with a minimum of inconvenience.) You also mentioned that you were a renter in the Slope and therefore missed out on the huge appreciation in real estate values that occurred between 1996 and 2000. I'd be pissed off too if my rent was raised by 70% over a 3 year period. Having said that, your living expenses should be the same or higher in Los Angeles. You'll need to buy a car, feed it gasoline, and insure it. If you're married you'll probably need a second car, doubing your transportation expenses. And then there is housing. My understanding is that housing costs in Los Angeles are comparable to New York. You can verify this by using the web link below. (I compared the cost of living in Brooklyn to LA.) A rental-to-rental comparison shows a $7K savings in Los Angeles, an amount which will easily be swallowed up by transportation costs. An "own-to-own" comparison shows that its' $2K *more* expensive to live in Los Angeles. What all that means is that if money is still an issue you'll be living far from the center of LA. You'll have a much longer longer drive to all of the desirable places you mentioned in your original post, which implied that of the good stuff will be in easy reach. It's an obvious point but money *does* make life better. For your sake I hope that your economic situation has vastly improved and that you can take full advantage of all the great chow opportunities that LA has to offer. If your economic situation remains the same I'm afraid that you will have exchanged one set of compromises for another. In the meantime the chow situation in our corner of Brooklyn has improved markedly over the last 2 years. New restaurants continue to open on Fifth Avenue and equally encouraging development is occurring on Smith Street. Please keep up with the Outer Bouroughs message board and perhaps we'll give you some places worth visiting on your trips back to New York. Link: http://www.homefair.com/homefair/cmr/salcalc.html Tue Aug 07 10:46:34 -0700 2001 1254455 0 Lex 7 1254466 "Having said that, your living expenses should be the same or higher in Los Angeles." Forget it; it's not even close. As someone who lived in LA just a couple of years ago I can tell you rents and the general cost of living are much, much higher in NYC. As far as the food goes, both cities are remarkable. Yes, I think the Chinese (especially dim sum) is far superior in LA, but most other kinds of food seem comparable to me. To me, it's far easier to get to the restaurants in NYC, because everything is so close together. They're both great food cities; just different. Tue Aug 07 13:07:20 -0700 2001 1254460 0 Ira Kaplan 8 1254469 I don't doubt your experiences Ira, but they may not be typical. Can you cite a reference that confirms your point about LA's relatively low cost? Tue Aug 07 14:01:42 -0700 2001 1254466 0 Lex 9 1254470 I lived in South Pasadena, which is a decent but hardly opulent area, and I had a huge 1-bedroom with parking for $625. That's a common price for such an apartment there. Of course LA is a huge city and rental prices vary, but when I came to the New York area I was shocked by the price of housing. Since I've lived in Minnesota, West Virginia, Chicago, New Orleans, Kentucky, Las Vegas, and Los Angeles, I thought I had a good idea of what I would have to pay for rent here. Wrong. I've never seen anything like it. As for other costs, I'm paying at least as much for public transportation here as I did for gas driving around LA, and car insurance is much higher. Everything in the New York area - restaurants, groceries, coffee, entertainment - seems more expensive to me than anywhere else I've lived, including LA. One recent example comes to mind: I just ate at Nam Phuong and had grilled beef on vermicelli. That's $5 anywhere else I've lived. Here, it was more than $8. Tue Aug 07 14:20:35 -0700 2001 1254469 0 Ira Kaplan 10 1254480 How long ago did you live in Pasadena? The prices sound a little archaic. If you want more of a comparison, try San Francisco! $625 there wouldn't get you a dog house...try $1625 or more. I agree that L.A. (depending on the neighborhood, and there must be hundreds of varieties as there are in NY)is less expensive than NYC...both housing AND food (if you're talking about the upscale places). But I wouldn't give up the more relaxed atmosphere, pleasantness of the people, and weather for any more than an occasional visit to NYC (which happens to be one of my favorite cities) It's true, the driving in L.A. is awful. Cabs are practically non existant and public transportation is a joke. That's why we all have cars. One man I ran into one day was from NYC. I asked how he liked living here and he said, "It's too nice." It's true. He just hadn't learn to relax after the frantic pace of NYC. We may not have as many good restaurants, nor as many cabs, nor museums...but quality, not quantity, of life is what counts...the older you get the more you realize that. Tue Aug 07 16:17:33 -0700 2001 1254470 0 Kit H.k 11 1254483 First, further discussion on this subject should go to the Not About Food board. Second, I lived in South Pas in 1998-99. Third, my only point was that in my experience it costs less to live in LA than the NYC area. I enjoyed living in LA, and I love living near NYC (in Weehawken, actually). To try to compare life in these cities seems like the ultimate example of apples vs. oranges. Tue Aug 07 16:48:31 -0700 2001 1254480 0 Ira Kaplan 11 1254487 Those cost of living indicators are always a bit flawed in their approach since they normally work with citywide averages. I think these days, SF comes up with a higher cost of living than NYC, which seems out of whack, but those numbers are pretty much true as many parts of outer NYC are pretty low rent areas and they tend to bring the averages down considerably. When a friend of mine got a one-bedroom for $4,000/mo last year, the reality of that just seemed, well, unrealistic. And apartment-hunting with him, I was appalled at what kind of crap went for $3,500/mo. Granted, this was lower manhattan, so this is on the extreme side. Part of Brooklyn (i.e., the Heights, Cobble Hill, Park Slope) aren't that far behind. This economic slump seems like it might help this situation. To stay on the topic, LA never experienced the housing shortage that befell both NYC and SF, and hell if anyone in LA has ever heard of a 10% realtor's fee. So it was no big surprise when my brother found a 2-br place in Los Feliz for less than $1,000 a year ago. I remember a few years ago, I saw apartment complexes in Palms/Mar Vista offering a renter a free month to sign a year lease. This was probably more widespread than in that nabe. This probably isn't the case now, but it doesn't seem to me that it's changed that drastically. OK, and about food. Despite having lived in NYC for 8 out of the last 11 years, LA has the best inexpensive food of any city. The recent waves of immigration to NYC has changed my view of this, but I still tilt towards LA (I am after all, a Los Angeleno at heart). One more comment and I'll shut up. Like no other city in which I've lived (NYC, Boston, SF), LA seems to have held on to its culinary institutions. Cities and neighborhoods have changed quite a bit in the past 20 years, however, I find that LA seems to have a larger percentage of places that has survived through these times (for better or worse, but mostly for better, IMHO). That is, places I might have patronized while I was in high school are probably continuing on today (and I'm not talking about restaurant chains either). Despite the hard times that struck LA during the late 80s and early-mid 90s, I really do feel like these long surviving restaurants and "joints" serve as a great fulcrum for gaining a sense of community. And if you've talked to the owners of these places like I have, you might find that they are the friendliest people. Hmm... I just got a craving for an Oki-dog. Tue Aug 07 18:06:43 -0700 2001 1254480 0 Eric Eto 8 1254845 I lived in LA for 18 months and couldn't wait to come back. I had a bigger place for virtually the same rent, BUT I had a car, too. My biggest frustration with L.A. was the plethora of chain restaurants and the ridiculous drive to get ANYWHERE. Yeah, there was great Chinese food, but it took an hour to get there. I did love the Mongolian BBQ places (Big Wok on PCH!). But the selection in NYC - outside of Park Slope - is far far far superior. Thu Aug 30 13:01:06 -0700 2001 1254466 0 ARey 9 1254855 I agree that one of the big advantages to NY over LA is that the area is geographically condensed, and therefore it's easier to get to a wide variety of good restaurants than in LA. I still miss Monterey Park. . . . Thu Aug 30 15:27:36 -0700 2001 1254845 0 Ira Kaplan 7 1254497 Lex, thank you for your concern, but we're doing just fine financially, thank you. It's just a matter of wanting more space than we have, not half the space we have. It's a question of value--sometimes even what one can "afford" doesn't seem worth it. As for the cost of living in L.A., naturally we investigated housing costs before we decided to move, both on-line and through friends and family who live there. Suffice it to say we can rent a three bedroom house with a nice yard in a good neighborhood for the considerable less than what a small two-bedroom apt with no outdoor space would cost us here. I do believe you're correct about buying, though, so we'll take our time with that. That said, I don't think you have to be wealthy to eat very well in L.A. Besides all the great Asian and Mexican places, have you ever gone grocery shopping there? Everything's MUCH less expensive. Wed Aug 08 00:00:51 -0700 2001 1254460 0 Leslie Brenner 6 1254475 Well, I am a relative newcomer to these corners of Brooklyn, but where I live (Carroll Gardens, definitely within the 15-minute radius of Park Slope; I usually walk straight up Carroll Street though - a lovely route) there are some pretty good if not incredibly "ethnic" places to eat: The Grocery, the Victory Kitchen, Saul, Joya, the Italians - Mamma Maria (good penne alla vodka!) and Marco Polo Ristorante, Osaka the Japanese restaurant, Mignon, Zaytoons (Middle Eastern) and then there's good pub grub (fish'n'chips) at PJ Hanley's, a great bar worth a visit just for its atmosphere... Maybe your standards are higher than mine (probable), but I am happy to eat at any of these places any day. (I also eat at the infamous Uncle Pho which is on my corner, but that piece of info should be merely whispered with an acute look of embarrassment.) Let me know if you need more info on any of these, or directions! I think there's a bus from PS to CG that actually works much better than subway. (I walk.) Tue Aug 07 15:44:56 -0700 2001 1254455 0 Katerina 4 1254448 Leslie-- I don't have time to write you a custom list, though I see Andy's given you a start. There have been scores of good places mentioned on these boards that are a quick trip from the Slope. And thousands that are a slightly less quick trip. Park Slope is indeed one of the worst places in the world to own a car (I recall, in the year I lived there, many nights when I circled for two hours to find a space requiring moving from at 7am. Sheer hell!). Tue Aug 07 03:31:56 -0700 2001 1254445 0 Jim Leff 4 1254451 Don't know about the condition of the subways these days, but when I lived in the Slope, Chinatown was 15 min on the D from Flatbush & 7th Ave. Tue Aug 07 07:25:18 -0700 2001 1254445 0 MU 5 1254454 The D train doesn't exist any more! Q no longer stops in Chinatown (it was 20 minutes, anyway...) Tue Aug 07 09:25:43 -0700 2001 1254451 0 Leslie Brenner 6 1254458 I believe the new Q stops in Chinatown - but at Canal/Broadway rather than Grand. And we used to walk to Chinatown with our stroller and toddler...its a shorter walk now, less than an hour from our house with the Manhattan Bridge walkway open - and on Sun morning, a 10 min drive for dim sum. We happily lived a car-less chowhound life in the area until we acquired our third child and a car. and for the last 15 yrs, with a car parked on the street I have been a very happy Brooklyn chowhound indeed. But anyway, even if 7th Ave (or the EWS or the UES for that matter) is a dull as any suburb restaurantwise, we would not have stayed in the area for 20+ years if downtown Brooklyn was a dull foodscene. You just have to go a little farther than your corner store... Leslie, the best of luck in LA, and I have to admit the adventure of setting off for a new place is appealing! Enjoy! Tue Aug 07 10:11:54 -0700 2001 1254454 0 jen kalb 7 1254465 The walkway is open!?! I don't know how many times I rode the D train (10 blocks from ctr slope but I could buy sweet potato knishes for my lunch at the coffee joint just above the station...) into midtown while fantasizing about being able to walk over the Manhattan Bridge. Alas, too late! Tue Aug 07 13:02:04 -0700 2001 1254458 0 MU 8 1254467 Yes and it is a beautiful, very direct walk (or bikeride, too, with a great view of the Bklyn Bridge AND the lower manhattan skyline tho the trains going by a few feet away every few minutes make it less than peaceful. On the brooklyn side entry to the walkway is on Jay, just past the exit for the BQE (rather challenging to cross since there is no crosswalk or light); on the Manhattan side, it comes off right next to Confucius Plaza on the Bowery. Shortens the walk from our house to Chinatown by 20-30 min. Check it out when you come back to visit - but meanwhile be thankful for being out of our 99 deg heat! Sweet potato knishes? Where? Tue Aug 07 13:17:28 -0700 2001 1254465 0 jen kalb 9 1254485 New Prospect's bakery used to make them, and the takeout cafe next to the newsstand just above the Flatbush & 7th subway entrance (Q train now, I guess) also carried them, along with my favorite whole wheat sesame bagels from that bagel place in Windsor Terrace (forget the name). I seem to recall someone mentioning that New Prospect is no more. I can't even imagine that the same coffee place is still there. Tue Aug 07 16:53:38 -0700 2001 1254467 0 MU 7 1254529 lets get one thing straight LA is the suburbs Park Slope is part of urban Brooklyn Leslie- You are moving from the city to the burbs! Have fun Thu Aug 09 14:25:23 -0700 2001 1254458 0 Josh 8 1254532 That may be true, but now Leslie can buy great tomatoes all year around at the Santa Monica Wednesday farmers market (the stand on the north west corner of 2nd and Arizona - I forget the name). Plus, she'll be in the same town as her mom! What a plus! Thu Aug 09 17:47:20 -0700 2001 1254529 0 Joan Winston 9 1254534 How wonderful for everyone! And to have your grandchild closer than all the way across the country! Enjoy! pat Thu Aug 09 18:02:46 -0700 2001 1254532 0 Pat Hammond 4 1254474 Well, I am a relative newcomer to these corners of Brooklyn, but where I live (Carroll Gardens, definitely within the 15-minute radius of Park Slope; I usually walk straight up Carroll Street though - a lovely route) there are some pretty good places to eat: The Grocery, the Victory Kitchen, Saul, Joya, the Italians - Mamma Maria (good penne alla vodka!), Osaka the Japanese restaurant, Mignon, Zaytoons... Maybe your standards are higher than mine, but I am happy to eat at any of these places any day. (I also eat at the infamous Uncle Pho which is on my corner, but that piece of info should be merely whispered with an acute look of embarrassment.) Let me know if you need mor info on any of these, or directions! Tue Aug 07 15:25:49 -0700 2001 1254445 0 Katerina 5 1254477 Thank you Katarina; I'm glad to hear you're enjoying Carroll Gardens. I did have a very good meal at Saul, and some meals at other pretty expensive on Smith Street than ranged from acceptable to horrible. Still, I think I'd be much happier about the food situation if I did live in that neighborhood rather than the Slope. But unfortunately Smith Street is a good half hour walk from here; it's kind of impossible to get there on the subway without a pretty long walk. I'm checking out Bistro St. Marks tonight and would be happy to report. Tue Aug 07 16:03:43 -0700 2001 1254474 0 Leslie Brenner 6 1254478 Leslie, I think the B71 and B75 run between our neighborhoods, look here: http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/busbkln.pdf. Also, I agree that there is much on Smith (why doesn't anyone talk about Court??) that's a little too pricey for the quality, but the Victory Kitchen is really good and so is Mignon and my Japanese friends LOVE Osaka. And Zaytoons' fresh pita and salads... mmm, mmmmm, mmmmmmmm! and... they are *cheap*. Link: http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/nyct/maps/busbkln.pdf Tue Aug 07 16:14:48 -0700 2001 1254477 0 Katerina 3 1254449 I agree - change is good. However, bitterness is bad. It hurts. Tue Aug 07 07:01:01 -0700 2001 1254441 0 christina z 4 1254471 I don't think Leslie's bitter. She's just burning the old to welcome the new, nothing wrong with that. But some of us downwind of the smoke are, naturally, looking on in startled puzzlement. Tue Aug 07 14:45:59 -0700 2001 1254449 0 Jim Leff 5 1254473 It sounds to me as if Leslie is GOING HOME. Perhaps absence from New York will make her heart grow fonder. Whatever, good luck and happy days. You're only as far from us as your nearest computer! pat Tue Aug 07 15:09:19 -0700 2001 1254471 0 pat hammond 1 1254434 Please: Where is this Bonnie's Grill of which you speak so kindly amid your bridge burning? Mon Aug 06 16:50:20 -0700 2001 1254419 0 Richard Gehr 2 1254442 Richard-- The best look-up resource for chowhounds is yellow.com. Bonnies Grill 278 5th Ave  Brooklyn, NY (718) 369-9527 Mon Aug 06 20:53:49 -0700 2001 1254434 0 Jim Leff 1 1254435 Yeah, goodbye! Can I have your apartment? Mon Aug 06 17:36:13 -0700 2001 1254419 0 Katerina 1 1254488 Hey Leslie, It seems inevitable that I'll be joining you out there when I finally decide that I'll be moving Home to LA. Sorry to hear of your chowhounding woes living in Park Slope. In fact, I feared a similar fate before I decided that food was more important to me than living closer to my friends who are scattered throughout the Park Slope/Carroll Garden/Cobble Hill area. Which is the main reason I decided to live in Elmhurst, Queens. Low rents, good cheap food, many *ehem* people of color that boost the quality of the chow, decent subway access to other good eats (within 15 minutes), it's all good. Almost like LA, actually. Boy, reading this, it seems like I'm rubbing it in, but please don't take it that way. Just want to wish you well. Really. Tue Aug 07 18:41:22 -0700 2001 1254419 0 Eric Eto 1 1254489 leslie, i too have always enjoyed your posts. and you've got a right to express your opinions, even if others disagree! i'm surprised by the consternation with which your post has been met. it's a humorous, detailed, honest post. it sounds to me like you're just appropriately emotionally prepared to leave. it's such a big change, and it would be a drag if you weren't excited and glad to be moving to l.a. go west, young woman! Tue Aug 07 18:45:01 -0700 2001 1254419 0 emily 1 1254785 amen, sister. 7th Ave is a wasteland. Wed Aug 29 12:15:12 -0700 2001 1254419 0 tom