Patois in Cobble Hill

[Ellen Kahaner]

Patois on Smith Street in Cobble Hill is a narrow
crowded restaurant with a garden in back that is now
winterized with a wood burning stove and a tent-like
roof. My friend and I sat next to a couple that made
out, smoked, talked on their cell phone and even said
"night night" to us after we changed our seats to the
front room. Next my friend sat in front of the curtain
that separated the kitchen from the restaurant and I
sat smooshed against someone sitting right behind me.
Bread was served in a loaf pan with a cloth napkin. It
was cold and slightly stale.

After half an hour a waiter came and asked if we would
like to hear the specials. We already had. "What would
you like to order for an appetizer?" he asked. I don't
want an appetizer. I just want to order a main dish.
"Would you like to order a salad with that?" Oi. A
while later our entres arrived. I had ordered the duck
pot pie, a special. It was a small pie, with a flaky
pastry dough top crust. It consisted of a salty sauce,
a little duck, and undercooked root vegetables, i.e.
crunchy turnips. For $17.

My friend had the salmon, which came with a little
dollup of mashed potatoes and some strips of root
vegetables. She liked it, though it was a little
undercooked. For dessert, I had the apricot sorbet
which had a nice tangy flavor. My friend ordered the
banana bread pudding -- After you've had the banana
pudding at Charles Southern Kitchen, you're just never
the same, certainly about eatting that dish. Coffee, no
refills offered. Check thrown on the table. Retrieved
by another waiter and returned on a little tray. The
bill for both of us was $58. plus tip. I couldn't help
but compare the dinner with what I ate the night
before, three of us at Pio Pio in Jackson Heights,
total for all, $32 with bags of leftovers to take home,
a friendly atmosphere, great food. Patois reminded me
of the clubs where people wait on line to get in, face
scrutiny at the door, and then pay for it. Why?

[rachelhope]

I had a similarly over-priced disappointing experience
at Patois, after having been told numerous times how
wonderful it was, and finally waiting out the line, I
found the food to be totally second-rate, over-salted,
and the service to be rude. Got me what the attraction
is, I certainly would not go back. But I guess there
are enough folks with money to burn and few
expensive options in the nabe to keep it thriving.

[Lisa R.]

That's too bad, because when it opened Patois was
really great...the tent in the back was funky and the
food was more than good, almost great, and big portions
too.

[Joey G]

To tell you the truth ive been there 3 times and it keeps getting better but, as every restaurateur knows u cant please everyone

[Jim]

Dear "Been told numerous times how wonderful it was":

Who told you?
Strangers...friends...enemies...relatives...a mother-in-law... your canine?

Something must be right. Everything can't be wrong. Is it me? Is it them? It's an enigma wrapped inside a puzzle surrounded by a mystery.

Expensive? Entree $10-$15 Please! Where have you been eating?

[DL]

I've only been twice, but liked it just fine. Go alittle late and there is no line. The service was fine too and the wine list good. Expensive? Not really. But to each his own; at least I won't have to wait behind you on line...

[Les]

Hi,
I was at Patois the same evening as you were and I also
ordered the "special": Duck Pot Pie.

In general I share the same impression as yours
although I did enjoy my snails, underwise quite an
underwhemming experience after hearing such good words
of mouth.

Since there were four of us that evening we were able
to sample a variety of dishes and we left with the same
feeling that this place would never survive in
Manhattan for more than a month once the hype dies
down.

[Jeremy Osner]

Did anyone see the review of Patois in the Voice this
week? It was in the Chow Notes section -- very positive
review.

[Jim]

Dear "Bags of Leftovers",

"Gourmandism is an act of judgement, by which we give preference to things which are agreeable to our taste over those which are not."

--by Jean-Anthelme Brillat Savarin

Seems your initial tete-tete with "Night, night...," tainted your experience of our quaint, crowded restaurant. The New York Times, Timeout Magazine, The New Yorker, the Daily News, New York Magazine, Travel and Leisure (April 1999) and of course Food & Wine, Zagats, and the Village Voice as well as the Washington Post highly recommended us. These reputable and serious periodicals -- our industrys' benchmarks -- significantly differ in your opinion of the assesment of our food, service and decor.

Your provincial, yet disparaging remarks have been noted.

[Jim Leff]

You know, I used to be happy to see restaurateurs and chefs show up around here. But you and your pal Joey are fast changing that.

I don't give a damn what those magazines say about you; if you react so snobbily and rudely, eviscerating paying customers who earnestly report bad experiences in your place, you're on a fast track to oblivion. The contemptuousness with which you've dismissed Ellen and Rachel (both of whom happen to have excellent taste, I might add) is all the evidence needed to prove accurate their reports.

[Dave Feldman]

Jim,

This is what I call the "Sirio/Le Cirque" defense:
"If we are as rude as our reputation suggests, then
why are we so crowded?"

I don't know how long you've been reading the message
boards here, or how familiar with the two posters that
wrote less than glowing reports about Patois, but
neither is known for making gratuitously nasty
comments about restaurants. As Jim Leff so eloquently
stated, your response to these criticisms illustrates
the very problems that the Chowhounders complained
about.

So what is the answer to how a place can treat
some/many customers shabbily and still have a
following?

1. A restaurant can be hot for a while, and then
eventually lose its client base as they find the new
hot place or tire of indifferent service and food.
Poof.

2. A restaurant can compensate for its abuse of some
customers by fawning over regulars or favored
customers. No doubt the latter group feels better
about their superior treatment (e.g., old Le Cirque,
Elaine's, Studio 54) to the peons.

I just can't believe that your response to two
customers' lack of enthusiasm is: you are wrong. Is
there any chance that your restaurant is less than
perfect?

[Jessica]

I live in Cobble Hill, and I had been eager to try
Patois, but I think, in light of your condescension
toward Ellen, I am better off eating elsewhere, no
matter what your food is like. A place that cares only
for critics and calls its customers "provincial" if
they report an imperfect experience is not a place for
me. I love Cobble Hill, but it tends to take a lot for
many Manhattan residents to go there for a meal, and
displaying such rudeness (choosing Ellen's phrase "Bags
of Leftovers" with which to address her, for example)
won't encourage a lot of them to get on the subway to
Brooklyn. I'm pretty sure you'll dismiss my comments
with a "Who needs her," and I certainly don't want
these boards to be a place for people to pick fights,
but I just wanted to let that out. Whew.

[pat hammond]

My son is moving to Cobble Hill in March. I'd be very
interested is what eateries you might be able to
recommend. I plan to visit him in the early spring and
it would be fun to know of some good places ahead of
time. Thanks in advance. pat

[Jessica]

Hi Pat. Okay, this post has nothing to do with Patois,
but hey, I'm too loserly to start another thread...
When you visit your son, I suggest a tasty lunch at
Fountain Cafe, on Atlantic Ave. between Court St. and
Clinton St. (technically on the Brooklyn Hgts. side,
actually). There's a thread about it farther up on
this board. I had a lamb schwarma sandwich from there
last weekend that was excellent. And they provide
olives gratis. On Court St., near the Cobble Hill
movie theater, is Sweet Melissa's, a very good
pastry/coffee shop. They have a nice garden out back,
in case you run into a spurt of warm weather in
March...Haven't tried Harvest East, the new pan-Asian
place on Court. Might be good. Those are my
off-the-top-of-my-head ideas. I'll try to think of
more...

[pat hammond]

Thanks very much for the Un-patois response. I look
forward to any other tips you might have. Are there
good grocery stores too? I love to cook when I visit.

pat

[jen kalb]

you know, Cobble Hill isn't a "real" separate
neighborhood. Its sort of a midway zone between
Carroll Gardens and Atlantic/Ave Brooklyn Hts. So you
might want to look at the threads re those areas too
for ideas. Shoppingwise Sahadi's is my idea of the
peak experience around there, but there are lots of
other shops on Atlantic Ave, Court St. and Union
Street that are well worth a shopping/eating visit.

[james gailey]

listen i wanted to tell alot of the people on this
message board one thing.i have been all over this
great land of ours and i have eaten at a lot of
places,and let me tell u i love Patois.its a fun and
enjoyable place to eat.sure things get crazy but dont
all restaurants u try and serve 100 or more people in
a night every night and lets see how u react! so until
u r in the shoes of those who u condem back off its
doing wonders for the neighborhood dont u think!

[Susan Nolan]

I saw so much give and take on the computer screen regarding Patois that curiosity got the better of me and I started reading what everyone had to say. Well, it all whetted my appetite to go with my husband to the restaurant to try their specialty and other dishes on the menu. Referring to the arrogance that one of the writers wrote about the owner, could it be he might have been misjudged. Is Sirio Maccione of Le Cirque 2000 considered arrogant? Or maybe justifiably proud of his establishment. So why should the owner of Patois be judged as arrogant. Why can't he be considered proud of the effort he put in his restaurant and the restaurant just be judged on the food it has. Leave personalities out of it. I'll go in Patois with an open mind. Here's to good eating!!

[steve d.]

Susan-- Go back and read the posting by Jim (presumably the owner) earlier in this thread and you'll see what people mean about "arrogance." Anyway, I'm glad you're going to try the place -- be sure and report back!

[JG]

This ia beating a dead horse. ABASTA!!!

[steve d.]

James-- I like Patois too (see my earlier posting), but it makes no sense to take the attiitude "well, it's hard running a restaurant, so we should cut them some slack." Of course mistakes will be made, but as Joey said, a concerned restaurateur will overwhelm the victim with kindness until they're happy again. If someone walks out of a restaurant pissed off, the restaurant has failed in its task (remember, a restaurant is etymologically "a place that restores you"); if it happens too often, the restaurant will go out of business, and few will shed tears. It isn't easy to make sure everyone leaves satisfied, but it can be done (Union Square Cafe is an example) -- you just have to make sure everyone from the person who takes reservations to the waiters and bartenders is aware that keeping the customer happy is the Prime Directive. I don't understand places that seem to encourage Attitude, and I don't go back. Why settle for crumbs when New York is a feast?

[pat hammond]

One more out of sync post in the Patois thread to say
a sincere thanks to all who answered me. I've printed
them all . I can't wait to say to my son in an
off-handed way, "I think I'll pop over to El-Asmar and
get something for dinner". Now I have to get a good
map. pat

[JG]

Hold on everyone, just take it easy, nice deep breath and let me explain.Iim`s response is due in fact to me. Who`s me ? Joey G of Soupgate. During my imbroglio I maneged to get Jim involved with the things said about Patois. His first, second and third respnse was "sorry they didn`t enjoy it maybe the`ll give us another chance.(when your a very busy rest. your going to offend someone whether it be service, food, comfort or ambience.Night after night it`s bound to happen. I don`t care who, what, where rest. someone will complain) But I egged him on until he was foaming at the mouth and given the type of person he is(volatile), I knew what button to push. So you see this is not entirely Jim`s fault. I can assure that when someone say`s anything disparigly about his place, he takes it personally( which you should`nt in this bus.)If dissatifaction is brought to his attention by his own awareness or the waiter he will : buy dessert, take something off the bill, pick up a check or offer dinner on the house next time.So you see it`s really not his fault he bend`s over backwards for his patons and oviously other customers know that. So I hope this makes sense to those offended. and now they will have a clearer understanding.

[Jeremy Osner]

I'd like to second Jessica's recommendation of the
Fountain Cafe, also try the Yemeni place across the
street from the Fountain. (Can't believe I forgot the
name!) And do be sure to go shopping at El-Asmar
grocery, on the same block.

[Jessica]

The Yemenite place across from FOuntain Cafe is called,
appropriately and succinctly, Yemen Cafe. ANd Jeremy's
right about El Asmar. I LOVE El Asmar. They have so
many goodies and the people there are very nice. I go
in there several times a week. Damascus, next door, is
great for pita and cookies.
I believe Carroll Gardens was mentioned somewhere in
this thread - that's a great area for ingredients if
you plan to cook. Esposito's, on Court St. (and
Sackett, maybe?), has tasty sausages and sopressata.
Caputo's, also on Court, has good mozzarella and
tortellini.
Okay, now this thread is a jumble of shopping advice
and Patois-related rants. But I couldn't help adding
to the confusion. :)

[jen kalb]

I couldn't agree with you more, Jessica.
Ever since I heard that Alan Harding was cooking in
Brooklyn, I had looked forward to visiting it. But
whoa. I was willing to reserve judgment until my own
visit until Jim's nasty and arrogant response,
confirms the views of his critics and unfortunately
gives me all the reason I need to stay away just
now.

[steve d.]

I, too, am horrified by the contemptuous attitude displayed by the proprietor in his posting, but I feel it my duty to report that I had an excellent meal at Patois recently (in the charming back tent) -- friendly waiter who gave my companion and me no flak for rejecting the first bottle of wine, and perfect steak frites. If I lived in Cobble Hill, I'd go there pretty often, holding my nose as I walked past the front office. Let's face it, there's no more connection between good food and virtue than there is between good art and virtue, and I won't stop eating at places run by assholes any more than I'll stop reading Pound and Hemingway.

And a bit of advice to restaurateurs -- if you must venture herein, do try to resist the urge to post unless you're absolutely sure you're not going to come off as oversensitive and arrogant. You see the effect you're having on us chowhounds...

[Kathleen W.]

Hey yall. I'm usually a "reader" and not a "poster" and I'm not really writing in reply to whoever posted last. I just can't find where to post just a regular ol' note. Anyway, I've lived in downtown bklyn for 3 years now and have always struggled to find good restaurants. I like noodle pudding and a few others but I must say that Patois is a godsend. I go there at least once a week now and really love it. I've actually become fairly acquainted with the owner Jim, who at first may seem a little aggressive, you will later learn that he is a great host. If I or other people around us have to wait too long, he is always offering free wine, checking on us to make sure we aren't starving too death, etc. Actually, he has a great sense of humor for what seems to be a very busy and chaotic job. But besides that the staff and food are great. It's probably one of the few bklyn restaurants who understand the concept of cuisine. I had steak tartare the other day that was awesome, the chicken is homey and tastey, the specials are always good too. Oh, and try the chocolate terrine...you will return. For all of you who seem to have gotten a bad impression of Jim, I would go in, ask for him by name, and see how accomodating and generous he can be. The fireplaces are also key. thanks. Now that I've made a post finally, I'll try to tell you about some other places that I've been to recently. I am a foodie in need of a diet. going to bed. ciao.

[Joyce Briand]

Wow. Never read such hatred on this site. I can't
believe I missed the whole saga. Anyway, I went to
Patois too at its beginning, and it was OK but nothing
to drool about. It was a nice setting, the food was good
(i remenber a potato, beet and goat cheese kinda tart
and my girl friend loved it). Apart from that, no other
souvenir. But then I lived a long time in Paris where
this kind of bistrot is all over the place. Don't get me
wrong: I am not blase at all. It was nice to find that
kind of restaurant in Brooklyn.

But after reading the owner's comment, I am totally
appalled. I did not plan to go back there again, but I
would have recommended it to a lot of people, mainly
those who crave for some nice bistrot food. But then,
Jim Whatever and Patois do not really need my
recommendations since healready has all these incredible
reviews from the "industry's benchmarks", right?

[S. KIRK]

I have had two very good meals at Patois, with friendly and good service, in relative comfort. The prices are very reasonable.

There seems to be more hyperbole and resentment in these interchanges than fairness, on all sides. Every restaurateur in New York would love to serve perfect food every time, in a restaurant twice the size. This ideal outcome an often adversarial reality does not permit. Unhappy customers cannot be entirely avoided but should always be recognized and apologized to, and efforts made to amend. Diners should be understanding within reason, willing to voice their feelings matter of factly at the time, and willing to give second chances. Often, new customers at "hot" new restaurants are overly ready to take offense, in a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy, perhaps interpreting a harried waiter as an uncaring one.
Restaurateurs cannot always control the unpleasant behaviour of their patrons, and have a clear disincentive to do so, as long as no one else complains.

Overall there is no reason to believe that anyone has a monopoly on the truth, and that therefore the people who say they did have a good time, such as myself, actually did. Moreover, statistics show that people are far more likely to report a bad experience in a restaurant than a good one. Which would lead me to conclude that dinner and service at Patois, is almost always going to to be very good, and well worth every penny.

[Jeremy Osner]

Au contraire -- experience on the Chowhound boards
shows that most folks in this posting community are
about as ready to report a positive experience as a
negative one; if anything, the posts are skewed
slightly towards the more enthusiastic. Speaking as
someone who knows Ellen well, she is certainly not
"overly ready to take offense". Neither is Rachel,
though my knowledge of her is only secondhand, i.e.
from reading her posts.

So post what your experience was -- "two very good
meals" -- but don't discount other people's postings
based on your own experience. Your statement that
"Every restaurateur in New York would love to serve
perfect food every time" is sort of irrelevant here;
obviously not every restarateur in NY does serve
perfect food every time, and the whole purpose of the
discussion boards is to figure out which ones are doing
a better job of it, which a worse, not to excuse those
that fall short based on the difficulties they face.
(Whew!)

[jasoncarey]

i am a brooklyinyte livin in
paris for the last 10 months
i visited patios when back and
enjoyed itm but the over price
and overcrowding seem due to
the fact that brookyln i s in
need of more than one decent
neighborhood joint. in paris
every nighborhooed has many
good local places and therefore
they are not so freizied and
feeling like the spot of the
moment
my advice other people:please
open more nice local joints

[pat hammond]

How about posting a few of your favorite Paris
neighborhood "joints"? Also, could you list which
arrondisement? pat

[steve d.]

I too would like to know -- but post them in the International board! For one thing, no one will see them here (not only an unrelated heading, but an ancient string).

[sarah Carey]

That's my Bro jason living in Paris while I am stuck
in Brooklyn (not so bad I guess). I can give you one
great paris restaurant. It's called Astier. its by
Republique....When I went to paris to visit Jason we
had the best meal there. It is listed in Cheap Eats
Paris. If you like cheese you will love this
restaurant. They give you a cheese board with
something close to 20 cheeses on it. We were very
careful taking only small slices so we didn't look
gauche, however we noticed that everyone around us was
going crazy taking what looked to us like huge slabs
of several kinds of cheese. They have a great Prix
fixe menu with 10 entrees, 10 plats and 10 desserts
all of which change freqently. the food is high
quality. We had a citrus fruit terrine that was out of
this world. its 140 francs for the four course meal.
Well worth every penny and an equivalent meal in NY
would be over 60 dollars. Also the best fruit tart in
Paris is at les Petits Mitrons in Montmarte at almost
at the top of Rue Lepic.

[captainspacefood]

FYI to all on this thread Patois has closed. Or moved into the city.

How were your meals there? What did you get?

They always had a nice chicken.