21561 Sun Oct 06 02:53:39 -0700 2002 33 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 77992 Since In-n-Out invaded Northern California a few years ago, we hardly hear about our local burger chains. But in Vallejo, the long-established giant hamburger joints still have a loyal contingency who claim theirs is the best. Recently I tried the local branches of Nation’s and Bud’s. NATION’S GIANT HAMBURGERS AND PIES (2525 Sonoma Blvd., 707-554-8888) in Vallejo isn’t 24-hours, but it does stay open until 1AM, a beacon of fluorescent light and late night eats on the corner of Sonoma and Tennessee. When’s the last time I’d had a Nation’s burger? High school, probably. The pies in the case didn’t look any better than I remembered them, but no matter, I was here for a burger. At 10pm, the young woman, Yolanda, behind the register was friendly and perky. When I asked for my order to be cooked medium rare, she smiled and said they were required to make them well-done, but she would ask. The grill cook then came over to help me. I explained that I’d like my burger medium rare, then he asked what that meant to me. I said that it would still be juicy and a little pink inside. The giant cheeseburger ($3.75) actually looked like the one in the poster photo. Statuesque with a couple slabs of ripe juicy tomato, a thick stack of many leaves of very fresh and crisp iceberg lettuce, and rings of sweet white onion resting on a thick swathe of mayo on the bottom half of the bun, then topped by a big hamburger patty oozing melted Velveeta-like cheese, this was a carefully architected burger. It appeared to be too big to fit in the mouth for a bite, but the toasted balloon bread bun compacted down, deflating for easy eating. The patty was moist and pink in the middle; the grill man had hit perfection. The meat was leaner than I expected and not greasy. The freshness and quantity of the garnishes was impressive, and the flavors stayed distinct rather than melding into the meat. While I’d ding this one for the bread, anything sturdier would have been impossible to tackle, but it does get soggy in the last bites. The signature gloppy, wet and juicy style of a Nation’s burger was very satisfying at this hour. The French fries ($1.20) were decent, only lightly colored as I’d not ordered them well-done. But they were crisp on the outside and the inside was creamy and not pasty or grainy. A good showing, all in all, for a total tab of $6.60. BUD’S BURGERS (3849 Sonoma Blvd., 707-642-3252) had first caught my eye not only because of the faded retro “Giant Burger” street sign, but for the folks waiting outside before the doors open at 10:30AM - pretty impressive considering Carl’s Jr. is on the same block. Then I noticed it was included as a classic on the Cheeseburger in Paradise site (linked below), which sealed the deal. Stepping inside and reading the notices posted prominently saying that all burgers are cooked “medium” unless specified otherwise, I immediately had a good feeling about the place. Photos of the late founder with this store’s staff (some of whom are still working here) and his obit are displayed. The original Bud’s was in Sacramento. There is another Vallejo location at 1339 Springs Road, 707-642-1012. A number of combo “specials” are offered, including one with an apple turnover which I’m told is Pepperidge Farms. My first time here I went with the Giant cheeseburger special, $3.79, which is a cheeseburger, fries and fountain soda. The cheeseburger here was less “giant” than Nation’s, but lower priced too. While not showing much pink in the middle, the patty was moist and greasy with richer beef flavor. Cooking it a bit harder might have been better. Shredded lettuce was used which melted into the hot patty and the tomatoes were somewhat mealy. The onions were cut thickly and some had to be removed to not dominate the burger. The bread was more substantial in texture and toasted darker to contain the burger and its juices, but was too big a component of the whole. This was a good burger, but not that distinctive. On a return visit, I went for the Giant cheeseburger special #1, $4.79, which is a double cheeseburger, fries and soda. My rationale was that I should try something that was closer to the price range of the Nation’s burger to make a fair comparison. I’m glad I did because the double size rang my chimes. This is the burger to order here. The bun is meant to have a bigger serving of meat, the amount of onions is right, and all the other proportions snap into step. It was too much for me to finish, but was much more impressive for an inexpensive production-line burger. The other reason I came back is that the fries are awesome. Regular cut with skins on, they’re served upright in a Styrofoam cup. These fries are so greasy, it would be impossible to contain them in anything made of mere paper. With an added dash of salt, they’re great as is and even taste good cold. They are golden brown and blistered with tiny bubbles that make a crackly crunch. The interior texture feels firm and smooth. They have a deep, deep flavor that tastes very bad for you and leaves an animal fat film on the inside of your mouth. I asked and found out that they’re fried in a combination of beef fat and cottonseed oil. Well worth a try for your next saturated fat and calorie splurge. Link: http://www.fdu.com/cburger.htm Sun Oct 06 02:53:39 -0700 2002 0 Melanie Wong 1 77996 Mel, I just love your posts. You give everything the proper consideration it deserves throughout the entire gamut of Chowdom. Your dedication and accuity never cease to amaze. The ol' Flavrmeistr pauses in his fish-frying preparations under the banyan tree today and hoists his frosty tumbler in your general direction. Sun Oct 06 11:16:23 -0700 2002 77992 0 flavrmeistr 2 78005 (blush) Thank you so much. That catfish is smelling pretty good at this empty time of the morning! Link: http://chowhound.safeshopper.com/21/cat21.htm?481 Sun Oct 06 13:29:14 -0700 2002 77996 0 Melanie Wong 3 78192 What we were frying was speckled perch (sweet little palm-sized slabs of white filet). Despite the small size (one pound is huge), specs are almost all meat and they are muy delicioso. In the spring and fall, they swarm the creeks and canals north of Lake Okeechobee. My friend Big John caught 70 in about an hour on 2 yellow worm jigs out by Nubbin Slough that morning. I wish I could have teleported a few hot slabs to San Fran for you just so I could read your response. Tue Oct 08 18:09:55 -0700 2002 78005 0 flavrmeistr 4 78240 Here's a longneck back atcha! (clink!) Wed Oct 09 02:49:10 -0700 2002 78192 0 Melanie Wong 1 78000 Wow, Melanie, I'm speechless! That has got to be one of the best odes to local burgers that I've ever read. I haven't been to Nation's in a long, long time -- I remember that there was one in Berkeley somewhere back in the '80s, and I would alternately go there for or to Oscar's for a fix. Does anyone know where the various remaining Nation's are located? Are there any other Bud's locations? Sun Oct 06 12:45:19 -0700 2002 77992 0 Zach Georgopoulos 2 78001 There's a Nation's on Broadway around 3rd in Oakland, and there's one in Alameda on Webster St. I believe there's one in El Cerrito, at Central Ave. and San Pablo. Link: http://www.smartpages.com/directory/search.jhtml?sourceid=00394724866538200219&pgtarg=ylwres&qvref=whtpgs&ClearLevel=Cloud9&QueryString=Nations%20Giant%20Hamburgers&QueryType=2&CityZipAC=&State=CA Sun Oct 06 13:03:45 -0700 2002 78000 0 Ruth Lafler 3 78003 Thanks, Ruth. I just did a yellow.com search for Bud's Burgers and only came up with the two in Vallejo. Seems the one in Sacramento on Hillsdale is gone, or at least no listing. I tried Nation's because chibi had recently mentioned to me how much she liked the burger she'd had at the one in Livermore and the wet style. Now that you mention the Alameda location, that was my previous Nation's burger, and yes, I was in high school then. Link: http://chowhound.safeshopper.com/23/cat23.htm?842 Sun Oct 06 13:13:51 -0700 2002 78001 0 Melanie Wong 3 78006 I had no idea there were so many! There's even one in Westlake, which might loosely qualify as an SF location. It's actually good to see a small local chain still functioning. But then again, I'm the sort of person who misses Foster's Freeze (alas, there are so few left)... Sun Oct 06 13:33:37 -0700 2002 78001 0 Zach Georgopoulos 4 78015 Would you believe my mom (a New Yorker) had her first ever taco at the Foster's Freeze on University Ave in Berkeley, in 1963? (Oh, well of course you'd believe it...) Sun Oct 06 15:37:01 -0700 2002 78006 0 Caitlin McGrath 5 78025 The same Foster's Freeze that's still there (just up University from San Pablo)? Sun Oct 06 20:28:33 -0700 2002 78015 0 Ruth Lafler 6 78031 That's the one. She first told me about this when I was a kid and we were driving by it. Couldn't believe she was 20 before she had anything Mexican, until she reminded me she grew up in the Northeast in the '40s and '50s, where avocados were a treat that her parents occasionally served as a first course, with a wedge of lime. Sun Oct 06 23:00:01 -0700 2002 78025 0 Caitlin McGrath 5 78033 I believe it! The first ever burger I remember eating was at the Foster's Freeze in Sepastopol, followed by a chocolate dip softie cone, when I was four or five. I guess that's why I have such a soft spot in my heart for the chain. About 12 years ago, I had the good fortune of working about four blocks from the one on Woodside Rd. in Redwood City, but I recently went by there and it was gone. I think there was another nearby in Menlo Park -- anyone know if it's still there? Sun Oct 06 23:28:17 -0700 2002 78015 0 Zach Georgopoulos 2 78004 Thanks, Zach. Here's garcon's post for a walk down memory lane for you. Sadly, it seems that the two in Vallejo are the remaining Bud's. Would love to hear otherwise. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/19468#65006 Sun Oct 06 13:16:16 -0700 2002 78000 0 Melanie Wong 3 78017 Nice post Melanie, as always! I haven't tried the Bud's location you have yet, but I did finally drop by the Bud's on Springs road about six weeks ago. Nothing near the experience you talked about. As I sat and sadly ate my burger I thought "why didn't I spend the extra 5 minutes and drive to Nations instead???". I suppose I should post both good AND bad experiences here, specially being a local Vallejo chowhound. Nations has my vote. If you're in Vallejo and want a GOOD burger, Nations on Sonoma and Tennesee, across from the... Shell gas station. For an extra treat, make sure to order it with the grilled onions! Sun Oct 06 16:00:59 -0700 2002 78004 0 SizzlingJoe 4 78019 Good to know that you're a Nation's partisan, Joe. The two staff there were as helpful as could be the night I was there. Anyone who's told me about Bud's only talks about the Sonoma Blvd. location. You're the first one I've heard who's eaten at Springs Rd., maybe there are some major differences between them. I must ask, did you have the regular burger or a double? Did you have the fries? Also, I've noticed Classic Burgers on Tennessee which seems to be pretty popular. Have you tried it? Sun Oct 06 18:13:53 -0700 2002 78017 0 Melanie Wong 5 78030 Nations has been a staple of mine since I was a kid... whether Pleasant Hill, Benicia, Vallejo, or Concord... haven't really had a BAD experience yet! (Plus they've got my favorite drink on tap... uncarbonated Hi-C orange!) The Bud's on Springs road may have different owners these days... I wasn't aware of the two locations being related... Single burger, french fries... and a soda. Nothing positive at all 'cept for their cold ice. The bun was dry, the burger flavorless, and the fries... well... not even ketchup could salvage them. It appeared to be family run... Korean was my guess... which made me think it'd changed since I heard POSITIVE things about it locally (about five or six years ago). My impression was always that Bud's Burger was an old, established mom and pop location. Perhaps the original people moved to Sonoma and sold off the Springs Road location??? Haven't tried Classic Burger yet... last time around living in Vallejo (downtown off Georgia Street) eating locally wasn't encouraged by my system, nor my acquaintances who had horror stories for many of the local places. Sun Oct 06 22:19:56 -0700 2002 78019 0 SizzlingJoe 6 78047 If you didn't think the fries were extra crisp and delicious, then there's definitely a difference between the two locations. At the Sonoma Blvd. store, I doubt that a bun would stay in house long enough to be dry. The fries are served as soon as they're made up. On my two weekday visits at 11am and 7pm, the staff could barely keep pace with the orders. Also noticed that three of the four different staffers on those shifts were in the photos with the late founder - he trained 'em right. Note that the Sonoma Blvd. location is open until 7:30pm on Mon-Sat, and until 6:00pm on sunday. Mon Oct 07 03:33:49 -0700 2002 78030 0 Melanie Wong 7 78050 Much different places then. I'll have to try the Sonoma location... and I wouldn't recommend visiting the one on Springs Road for any reason. When I'm at Sonoma, I'll ask about the Springs Rd. operation. Thanks for the input! SJ Mon Oct 07 04:55:41 -0700 2002 78047 0 SizzlingJoe 2 78081 Nation's in Napa on Third, kinda kitty-cornered from the Uptown Theatre that's under renovation. And there's one in Vacaville on the outer highway on the other side of I-80 from all of the outlet stores, near the new bed/bath store and the Nugget grocery store. There's a Mel's Diner on the outlet store side and it's dreadful. I had a burger there after a neighbor raved about the place: tasteless, dry, terrible bun...this after waiting 30 minutes for a table. Mon Oct 07 17:47:32 -0700 2002 78000 0 Christine Vallejo 3 78116 Yeah, Mel's has always been pretty bad, at all of their locations. I never understood the attraction beyond the '50s kitsch. Mon Oct 07 22:54:41 -0700 2002 78081 0 Zach Georgopoulos 4 78173 Good to hear about Mel's being bad - thought it was just us. I'll eat just about any burger if I'm hungry enough, but I'll NEVER go back to Mel's. Tue Oct 08 15:50:30 -0700 2002 78116 0 Christine Vallejo 5 78219 I ate at the Mel's on Geary a few years back. It made no lasting impression except that they had a decent milkshake. Tue Oct 08 21:49:34 -0700 2002 78173 0 flavrmeistr 1 78022 I'm lucky enough to have two Nation's within 10 minutes of my house here in Pleasanton. One on Hopyard,just off 580 and one on Santa Rita Rd.- not too far off of 580. I prefere the Santa Rita location. Better service and one of the guys there is a master hamburger chef! :-) Their breakfast isn't too bad either. D Sun Oct 06 18:32:44 -0700 2002 77992 0 David 2 78049 Thanks for weighing in on your local Nation's and telling us what makes the Santa Rita location special. Even for something simple like burgers, the hand of the chef can still show itself. I'm hoping others will share their experiences to contribute to the chow intelligence on the best Nation's locations. Link: http://chowhound.com/chowmarket/index.html Mon Oct 07 04:12:02 -0700 2002 78022 0 Melanie Wong 1 78034 OK, because of your post, I went to the Nation's in Westlake on my way down to Millbrae to visit my dad -- it is indeed an excellent burger! I'd forgotten how good Nation's was since my Berkeley days. I had the bacon cheeseburger. In my case, I actually did have problems getting my mouth around the thing, largely because of the very thick heart of lettuce that was in there, but I hold no grudge. In all, a wonderful burger experience, and I felt a fool for having waited in line at In n'Out last week when Nation's was so nearby. But I guess I can now say I tried the latest rage in burgerdom. The one thing I would say In n' Out has that other places don't (including Nation's) are the freshly cut fries, which were very tasty. Now, on my way to Nation's in the stuck-in-the-50s shopping center, I passed the Westlake Coffee Shop. Packed with people. Anyone know anything about this place? Sun Oct 06 23:39:44 -0700 2002 77992 0 Zach Georgopoulos 2 78048 Are you saying I have a bigger mouth than you? (g) I was willing to put money down that you'd find your way to Westlake today, Zach. The fries at In-n-Out may be freshly cut, but they're also too soft because of that. Mon Oct 07 03:37:11 -0700 2002 78034 0 Melanie Wong 2 78325 I'm curious about the Westlake Coffee Shop too, so started a new thread (linked below). Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/21612#78324 Wed Oct 09 22:22:27 -0700 2002 78034 0 Melanie Wong 1 78232 And don't forget their funky hamburger t-shirts. In the springtime, they have a pretty good strawberry pie made with huge sweet glazed strawberries. I find it helps to ask for your fries on the crispy side. The Nation's in San Pablo (across from the Casino San Pablo) is pleasant enough in the daytime (with bud vases on each table) but on a Friday or Saturday night it becomes a magnet for all the hungry kids for miles around - just so you know. Tue Oct 08 23:22:30 -0700 2002 77992 0 gordon wing 1 81205 I've had a hamburger at Nations. It was good but not as good as a double double animal style at In 'n out which I absolutely love. I actually am not that crazy about In 'n Out's french fries. Good but not great. Now Bud's on the other hand sounds exactly like Dick's in Spokane. Melanie it may be a few months, perhaps even six or so, but I WILL GO. Thanks for the recommendation. By the way the link to Cheeseburger in Paradise is incredible. He's been to almost every great or even decent hamburger joint in America. But he missed Dick's in Spokane! Toronto, by the way, also has great hamburgers. Fri Nov 29 17:19:52 -0800 2002 77992 0 Joe H. 2 81206 Toronto? Please post on the Canada board where you like to get your burgers in Toronto. I'm always looking for good leads. Fri Nov 29 17:35:22 -0800 2002 81205 0 mikeb 3 81207 Across from the Eaton Centre on Younge Street and I can't remember it's name. But the one I like the most is the most obscure, Weber's Charcoal Pit about 150 km. north outof Toronto driving to the lakes region. This is the places where they built a bridge to span the four lane road just so people could stop for a burger. Not the best but truly unique. Toronto, though, has more burger joints than even southern California, Fri Nov 29 21:08:38 -0800 2002 81206 0 Joe H. 4 81208 Yeah, Webers is a great place to go on the way to the cottage. Back in the old days when it was a smaller operation, there was no bridge. If you were going south and wanted a burger, you had to run across the highway. The bridge has a neat history too. It used to span across some train tracks to the CN Tower. When they developed around the Tower, Webers bought part of the bridge and moved it up north. Sat Nov 30 02:43:59 -0800 2002 81207 0 mikeb 2 81209 The next time you're headed to Napa from the City, Vallejo would be en route. Sat Nov 30 05:35:50 -0800 2002 81205 0 Melanie Wong