21339 Sun Sep 15 19:15:54 -0700 2002 21 1 San Francisco Bay Area 0 76479 There is an Island off the coast of the Carolinas whose inhabbitants are known to make the best BBQ sauce. It is an isolated black community that would periodicly come to festivals in the South in order to ruin BBQ for anyone lucky enough to try it. They sold their ribs in plastic ziplock bags which became inevitably smeared with the unearthly brown sauce that coated the bones and meat. These people would inevitably retreat back to their island and withen days the only evidence of their existance would be the scattered bags and bare white bones; both suspiciosly missing the red sauce that once stained them. This childhood memory remained unshakable untill yesterday, when Everett & Jones BBQ in Berkley forced itself in its place. I now do not remeber the paticulars of that summer day, becuase the barbeque I had yesterday was too similar. I cannot distinguish my memory of the sweet/spicy sauce that I ate one decade ago, from the similar tasting sauce I had yesterday. Except for the missing plastic bags, I am affraid that in another ten years these two experiances will be lumped together. Go to Berkley, order the fallapart ribs with the spicy sweet sauce, and tell them I hate them. ryan Sun Sep 15 19:15:54 -0700 2002 0 ryan 1 76493 What a wonderful description! I wonder how the E & J BBQ compares to Memphis Minnie's in the lower Haight, which is currently my BBQ fave. Has anyone been to both places? Mon Sep 16 00:35:46 -0700 2002 76479 0 Bryan Harrell 2 76495 Both places were represented in the BBQ tasting we had last spring. I've attached BBQ maven Rochelle's write-up of the tasting -- it was quite a lively discussion! Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/19139#63047 Mon Sep 16 00:52:41 -0700 2002 76493 0 Ruth Lafler 2 76498 Im not as mad at Memphis Minnies as I am Everett and Jones. Memphis Minnies's is destinct. It's meat is so thoroughly smoked its electrons have been pierced by smoke and spices. I think the owner deliberatly makes his sauces uneatable so that his smoking work does not go to no avale. My synoposis: The texture of the meat is more tender at E&J. The flavor of the meat is better at MM. The sauce kills at E&J. One thing I forgot to note before, is to order the sauce not mild, or medium, but spicy. The sauce has deep fruity notes that could be overwhelming if not contrasted by the slight heat. ryan Mon Sep 16 01:38:15 -0700 2002 76493 0 ryan 3 76506 If this is "i'm just a college kid ryan", I'm glad you mentioned the spicy sauce at E&J. My brother and I first discovered E&J when we were undergrads and could hardly bear the heat of the medium sauce. My brother feels that the recipe has gotten milder over the last 20 years, and now he doesn't even find the hot that incendiary. We have wondered whether our taste buds have dulled from our college days, but if you don't find the spicy or the medium to be overwhelming at your age, perhaps the recipe really has changed. Mon Sep 16 02:13:08 -0700 2002 76498 0 Melanie Wong 2 76522 Memphis Minnies has terrific brisket very nicely smoked, so that it doesn't need the sauces there (which is good, 'cause I don't like any of them at all!) excellent meat, tender and juicy. At E&J's I can't tell if the meat is really smoked, or the quality of it because the sauce already comes on it..(which I don't mind cause I really love the sauce!) However there is no balance between meat and sauce...just Sauce and texture of meat...but often I don't mind 'cause...did I say, "I really love the sauce!"..I wish they would bottle it, cause then I could put on just as much as I want (only a little is needed) to gild the smoked lily of Memphis Minnies brisket. At the moment my favorite ribs are huge dinosaur-like beef ribs at Jerome's in Petaluma. (I also go to Petaluma for great Chicago Pizza!). Have you tried Flint's (3 locations in the East Bay)? If they actually really definitely open when they say they are going to, you will smell up your car ('cause you can't eat at any of them) and the aroma is too overpoweringly good to wait to drive home! I just rip into my meal in my handy Honda! Each time... when I actually got to "Eat their meat" (once I had to drive to all three just to find one ready to do business!) I was met wth some of the best 'cue I have had. Mon Sep 16 12:31:34 -0700 2002 76493 0 derek 3 76536 Um, derek, E&J does bottle its sauce. You can buy jars of it at the various locations. Mon Sep 16 14:02:25 -0700 2002 76522 0 Melanie Wong 4 76544 Yes, I know, but they have always been out of the bottles or jars when I've gone...they tell me to bring my own, but so far I've forgotton to! Mon Sep 16 17:49:30 -0700 2002 76536 0 derek 5 76545 You don't have a multi-purpose glass jar in the trunk of your car at all times for Cantonese roast duck jus, salsa verde, etc.? (vbg) Mon Sep 16 18:01:39 -0700 2002 76544 0 Melanie Wong 5 76557 I encountered that dilemma once - solved it by ordering a Snapple and chug-a-lugging it. The wide mouth and twist-off cap is perfect for the transferral of sauce in and out of the jar. And seeing that delicious E&J sauce sittin' pretty in a beverage bottle inspired me to come up with a new drink - the Bloody Leroy (just add vodka). Mon Sep 16 19:47:20 -0700 2002 76544 0 Chris G. 2 76524 Am I the only one who's had a bad E&J experience? I went to the Berkeley location a few weeks ago for my first time. We got the beef sandwich plate. The beef was really tough with lots of fatty pieces. We couldn't cut off the gristle because they had no knives to give out. I actually used my teeth to precut the fat off the pieces. :( We decided to eat in and got to hear the constant bang of the meat cleaver as meat was cut behind the counter. It was a terrible sound that destroyed my ear drums each time and put me on edge waiting for the next eardrum-piercing noise. A horrible experience all in all. I went to the Jack London location, too, several years ago and just found it okay. Why can't places around here be like Rudy's in Austin, TX? Mon Sep 16 12:39:58 -0700 2002 76493 0 Kathleen Mikulis 2 76533 I've eaten at E&J near Jack London Square a number of times, and Mempias Minnie's when I hit Toranodo for micros. E&J has much better sauce, I always get the hot. Minnie's meat is better, a pound of rib tips for around $9.00 is a real deal... chicken is very good too. The Minnie's sauces leave me cold, more like salad dressings... esp. the mustard one. Mon Sep 16 13:52:02 -0700 2002 76493 0 StepWiz 3 76551 I definitely place more importance on the meat. Because if it is really good, the sauce is only a garnish, an afterthought. At MM's it all seems to be about the meat and its preparation. In July I even had some BBQ smoked salmon that was tremendous, and I am not really a salmon fan. Mon Sep 16 18:56:35 -0700 2002 76533 0 Bryan Harrell 2 76621 I feel that Memphis Minnies has the Berkeley location of E&J beat hands down in the smoked meats department. I like the red sauce that Memphis Minnies have on the table, but I generally don't use much. E&J does have a pretty good sauce, I will say that. One of my other favourite ribs come from Cliff's on the bayshore and his sauce doesn't generate the love that the ribs and the rub he uses does. I guess I like sauce, but it's not as important to me. That said let me tell everyone Memphis Minnies is closed on Monday. This was a lesson learned much to my chagrin this last Monday. I convinced a friend to drive into San Francisco all the way from San Ramon for lunch there only to find out that they are not open on Mondays. This is a friend who really appreciates BBQ, my old Armadillo Willy's buddy of when I worked down in the South Bay. I was going to initiate a BBQ revelation with that brisket. We went to Big Nates as a consolation prize. It's a place that does have good smoked meats and their sauce is pretty good as well, but I was really keen on introducing this friend to the brisket at Memphis Minnies. Oh well, lesson learned. We're hoping to meet for lunch again in the next week. Not on Monday. Wed Sep 18 00:44:19 -0700 2002 76493 0 mikeb 1 76516 Not to desecrate your beautiful image of bags and bones, there is a pretty cool book which was written by two guys who traveled the South in a Volvo in search of some stories and images of BBQ entitled "Smokestack Lightning". I love the smell of EJ's oak fire. As a pyro and a carnivore there aren't many smells as satisfying. I will try the Q again ,as I wasn't blown away by the taste on the first go round. In my master plan I will dig a trench style smoke pit, slaughter my own hogs, and brew my own beer. Or is this my vision of the hereafter? Mon Sep 16 10:32:40 -0700 2002 76479 0 k. gerstenberger 2 76549 Kegman DOES have a point with "Brew my own beer" and that's what pushes Memphis Minnie's into another realm since it's across the street from the Toronado (no better beer joint in SF) and they let you bring in food. Having MM's BBQ beef brisket (smoked 18 hours) with a good heavy beer brings a bit of heaven to earth. In August I was fortunate enough to get a smoked porter at the Toronado, and my immediate reaction was to go over to MM's and bring back some BBQ, even though I wasn't hungry. Mon Sep 16 18:45:00 -0700 2002 76516 0 Bryan Harrell 3 76572 Did you try any of the sake selections at MM's with the 'cue? Tue Sep 17 01:09:31 -0700 2002 76549 0 Melanie Wong 4 76588 OH, don't get me started. MM's has a small but well-chosen selection of sake, and this pushes my buttons. That's because it is sake from small artisan producers in Japan, not the mass-produced swill normally heated up so that it tastes like airplane glue. Best of all, owner Bob's got three great sakes (by Japan standards, no less) in small glasses for $8 in a tasting set. Actually, if you do the BBQ meat without sauce, the sake makes very good sense. And I think this is what Bob really has in mind. It is admirable. However, sauce freaks who load the meat down will find that the flavors just run ALL OVER the sake. (Particularly that mustard sauce - gaaack.) Nonetheless, I suggested to Bob a few US-available sakes which have the requisite acidity to stand up to the meat, and let's hope that he gives them a try. Maybe this is why I like MM's (apart from it being opposite Toronado) since finding a way to integrate good sake into some sort of American food format is innovative. Besides, does anyone in the Bay Area have a better brisket? Tue Sep 17 11:23:24 -0700 2002 76572 0 Bryan Harrell 5 76592 Haven't tried MM but Bo makes a mean brisket on the east side. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/19826#67058 Tue Sep 17 11:48:34 -0700 2002 76588 0 Tom hall 5 76597 Thanks so much for your comments. I had the good fortune to try the sake sampler with 'cue at MM with Chowhound's own Miss Texas, Rochelle McCune, and her husband, Michael a few months ago. Unfortunately, I didn't record what we tasted, but I do recall that the two lower priced sakes were a better match with the meats. We thought the top of the line was wonderful by itself, but its refinement and complexity tended to clash. Until I tried Memphis Minnie's, Flint's was my favorite brisket in the area. Can't say enough about Flint's sauce, but MM's brisket takes the art to another level. I'm very interested in trying Bo's which Tom has recommended, also Armadillo Willie's which is also smoked for long hours. Link: http://www.chowhound.com/topics/show/17553#52393 Tue Sep 17 14:38:05 -0700 2002 76588 0 Melanie Wong 6 76599 The same sampler is available at Den in San Mateo (same info card and glasses too). I did happen to jot down what they were serving when I tried it a while back: Junmai Akitabare "Koshiki juntsukuri" Ginjo Dewazakura "Dewasanzan" Daiginjo "Kura no Hana" It's been a while, but I remember thinking at the time that the ginjo was very smooth. Tue Sep 17 14:52:11 -0700 2002 76597 0 chibi 6 76763 Four words = Central Texas Barbeque, Castroville ! That is the home of the best brisket I know of. No sake, but saw dust on the floor, owner Don a Willie Nelson look alike, great onions, cowboy "stuff" all over the walls, hot sauces on each table and fork tender brisket! I am drooling as I always do with thoughts of that tender, smokey brisket!! Thu Sep 19 22:35:18 -0700 2002 76597 0 Rich Brown