203619 Wed Sep 10 11:22:14 -0700 2003 27 18 Manhattan 0 1085689 Knowing that most spots in Little Italy are tourist traps, friends from out of town really would like a spot in Little Italy that has good home cooked food a decent price. I am looking for local input to the best spots in the neighborhood. Thanks. Wed Sep 10 11:22:14 -0700 2003 0 Chas 1 1085697 Try Forlini's. I don't know the address but I think it is a little bit south of Little Italy and is off the beaten tourist trap path. Wed Sep 10 11:58:25 -0700 2003 1085689 0 DavidT 2 1086585 Forlini's is on Baxter Street south of Canal. Just a block from Little Italy Proper. Tue Sep 16 16:38:02 -0700 2003 1085697 0 gypsy 1 1085703 There are so many great Italian spots outside of Little Italy, I would skip it and go to one of them. There is nothing authentic about Little Italy, why make a special effort to eat there? Or, why not go up to the Arthur Ave. Italian section of the Bronx? Wed Sep 10 12:05:17 -0700 2003 1085689 0 aab 2 1085711 I'm sorry aab, but did you not read the question? I'm so sick of the snobby people on this board. I'm pretty sure it specified Little Italy as a location. Wed Sep 10 12:56:32 -0700 2003 1085703 0 My2Cents 3 1085718 There's nothing snobby about aab's post. It's common knowledge (especially on a message board promoting deliciousness in all its forms) that for the most part Manhattan's Little Italy restaurants pale in comparison to the other Italians offered all over town (from Lupa to Il Mulino from Babbo to Petrosino from Lavagna to Supper, yadda yadda yadda) and that to take out of town guests with limited restaurant time to an inferior restaurant wouldn't be very chowish, regardless of their request to eat there. So, maybe a better way to put it is: Avoid Little Italy, but if they must SEE the ambiance, etc, eat at any of the hundreds of other GOOD Italians in the city and go to L.I. for dessert/coffee/ambiance....(the San Gennaro 3 week fest is still going on on Mulberry, (much to the chagrin of the Mulberry-ites I know) so that might be a nice attraction - as well as a good excuse to steer them away from the area for food saying L.I. is overrun w/ tourists because of it!) If you go during the day, you could take them to DiPalos and pick up a hunk of Parm Reg and some fancy shmancy imported olive oils.... Those are MY two cents....don't forget, chowishness is a form of snobbery (in a way....) and speaking for myself, that's why I like it. THM PS - please lets not start a flame war about this...everyone's entitled to their two cents... Wed Sep 10 13:33:42 -0700 2003 1085711 0 THM 4 1085729 Thanks, THM, I'm just trying to save someone from having a disappointing meal in a city where terrific Italian food is to be had, didn't intend to be a snob. I thought the dessert/coffee suggestion was a great one. Wed Sep 10 14:12:57 -0700 2003 1085718 0 aab 2 1085743 "...why not go up to the Arthur Ave. Italian section of the Bronx?" I dunno....because it's the MANHATTAN board? Hell, if that restriction means nothing, I know some places in Jersey they should try, too. Wed Sep 10 15:21:43 -0700 2003 1085703 0 Milano Mario 1 1085707 My family likes Benito II on Mulberry Street. We generally order family style--apps, pasta, meat & fish. My favorites include the spedini, the octopus, and the chicken scappriella (that's probably spelled wrong). Definitely not the best Italian food you'll ever have, but we always enjoy it and have a great time--it's most fun with a group of people. Wed Sep 10 12:43:36 -0700 2003 1085689 0 NancyH 2 1085720 I'll second the recommendation for Benito II. Try the stuffed artichoke and the linguine with garlic & oil. But, as was pointed out above, the festival begins this weekend and it will be quite a scene down there and parking will be close to -- if not totally -- impossible. Wed Sep 10 13:41:08 -0700 2003 1085707 0 Deenso 3 1085813 I'd go for Benito II also. The food is pretty good and the prices aren't bad either Wed Sep 10 21:31:46 -0700 2003 1085720 0 jag 1 1085713 Though not "technically" in Little Italy (it's a block or two away) maybe you can go to Peasant and actually have a tasty Italian meal. It's certainly not a "red food" kind of place, however. Wed Sep 10 13:14:10 -0700 2003 1085689 0 DC 1 1085715 Sadly, I don't think there is a place in Little Italy that serves good home-style food. Not too far from Little Italy (in fact, it's SoHo today but used to be part of Little Italy) is Pepe Rosso on Sullivan just south of Houston. I think it's the kind of place out-of-towners imagine Little Italy will offer. Also, be forewarned that the San Gennaro festival is starting (tomorrow, I think), so Little Italy will be very, very crowded this week. Wed Sep 10 13:16:00 -0700 2003 1085689 0 scrittrice 1 1085723 I have found that many people from out of town DO seem to want to go to Little Italy - must be in all the guide books or something. What I try to do, since I'm not fond of the Italian restaurants in that area, is suggest Little Italy for dessert - cannoli, cappucino, etc. at Ferrara - near Grand and Mulberry - this gives them the sense of Little Italy without disappointing them with a mediocre meal (still a little touristy, but hey it's only dessert) and they can still stroll Mulberry St. and soak up all they want of the atmosphere. This also gives me the opportunity to take them to a good restaurant for dinner; my preference for tourists is to take them to Chinatown for dinner - great meals at good prices with a stimulating atmosphere. Wed Sep 10 13:48:12 -0700 2003 1085689 0 wurstle 2 1085742 You can get good Italian food in Chinatown? Some of the posts here are incredible. If someone is looking for vegan fare, would you steer them to a steakhouse because it's a more exciting environment? Wed Sep 10 15:20:11 -0700 2003 1085723 0 Milano Mario 3 1085754 The point is you can barely get ITALIAN food in little italy and thus the suggestion to seek GOOD FOOD elsewhere and experience Little Italy for the cultural/tourist destination that it is, rather than as an even remotely passable food one. If you have better suggestions IN Little Italy, go for it. I'm sure we'd all love to hear them. But Little Italy in Manhattan is NOT a destination for (most) Chowhounds and thus there's no reason for Chowhounds to "compromise" and direct people to go eat there. If someone HAS to be in Little Italy, it might be better to check CITYSEARCH or ZAGATS and find out what the tourists are talking about. That's not a slam on tourists, it's a comment on the different directives of the different restaurant information resources available to NYC visitors and locals alike. This is a TERRIBLY common request among posters, and generally the requests come from locals who are getting requests by visiting guests to take them to Little Italy. It's a problem. We're offering the most tolerable Little Italy experiences by our suggestions. Some people in this thread have been very helpful, others have not. I don't think it's helpful, especially on a board like this if we just said, hold your nose, throw a dart and hit a random place and go there, order the simplest thing on the menu, etc. It dilutes the commentary on the places we DO care about. On the other hand, if there were all of a sudden an uphill alert at a previously dismissed L.I. establishment or a new, "ligitimate" Italian that was serving deliciousness, we'd all want to know. But the truth of the matter is MOST Chowhounds DON'T GO TO LITTLE ITALY SO THERE'S NO REASON TO EXPECT THEM TO OFFER ANY SUGGESTIONS THERE. I'm breaking my own rule here about fanning the flamewar flames, so I'm sorry, but there are certain requests that go altered or ignored for a reason. I'll repeat: Chowhoundishness, for better or worse, is a mild form of snobbery, so people seeking requests should know that and take what they can get from extremely knowledgeable, food crazy folks. I'm not saying it's right or even that it's the rule. I'm saying that's sometimes the way it is. And every once in a while, just like the Corleones and the other four families, we gotta hash these things out, in case for some reason, everybody's listening. :) THM Wed Sep 10 15:59:39 -0700 2003 1085742 0 THM 4 1085760 Chowhoundishness should aim to find the best food in ANY situation. A question about good, cheap hamburgers in midtown shouldn't prompt a reply to "go try the Kobe Beef burger at blah-blah-blah in Grammercy." If you ask about all-you-can-eat Sushi, you're probably not looking for a Nobu-like experience, or quality. Different strokes for different folks, and this board should NOT be limited to only those who turn their nose up at everything. Get over yourselves; if you can't answer the question, don't. But stop offering snobbish answers to people who aren't asking Wed Sep 10 16:19:48 -0700 2003 1085754 0 My2Cents 5 1085766 The problem posed in answering a question like that asked by the original poster here is not that the food in Little Italy is OK, but that there are more luxurious options elsewhere (as in your hamburger example). The problem is that most of us have never found ANY Italian restaurants, at any price, worth eating at in Little Italy. I think most folks here wish that this were not so, since if nothing else it would make these types of threads much easier, but it's just the plain truth. So folks here, in an attempt to be truly helpful to someone seeking good food (which is, after all, what this board is all about) offer suggestions of restaurants in Little Italy they've found to be passable (i.e. not revolting) with the apporpriate warning that they're just OK, restaurants of quality nearby - which given the area tend to be mostly Chinese, or better and often cheaper Italian restaurants elsewhere in the city. I'm not at all sure why this should be considered "snobbishness" on a board where, by its own criteria, the quality of the food should outweigh most other considerations -- including location. IMO folks are being quite helpful trying to aid someone who has a problem, and a problem with which many of us are sadly familiar. Wed Sep 10 16:38:47 -0700 2003 1085760 0 Detroit-NYC Al 6 1085771 And I might add, I thought it was kind of nice that so many people offered alternatives, given that the original poster seemed to be under the mistaken impression that there are tourist traps in Little Italy, but also good-value Italian restaurants, not to mention that this question was posed last week, and the week before that, and the week before that, and so on. I stand by my Pepe Rosso recommendation--good homestyle Italian food, within the old boundaries of Little Italy, if not the new ones. I forgot to mention, though, that it's cash only. Wed Sep 10 16:46:14 -0700 2003 1085766 0 scrittrice 7 1085881 Second the Pepe Rosso rec... Thu Sep 11 11:12:11 -0700 2003 1085771 0 Kerry 4 1085769 Just for my own knowledge, when did Little Italy become a place as has been discussed? Back in the 50's it was a great area for Italian food. Rich, deep red gravies, clam sauces etc. Just about every place was good. When did it all change?d Wed Sep 10 16:43:07 -0700 2003 1085754 0 Paul 3 1085765 actually I did offer Italian food in Little Italy, albeit dessert, and I was not trying to be snobbish. The original poster asked for: good home cooked food at a decent price. In my humble opinion and those of many others on chowhound that doesn't exist for dinner in Littly Italy. So what would you have us do, not tell him that his guests will most likely be disappointed by their meal?? most of us have tried the restaurants down there for the same reason, our out of town guests dragged us there and we've hated it. why not share our advice? that, I thought, was the point of this website. and if we're sharing our opinion on how this may not work for him, why not suggest alternatives so he can solve his problem. frankly, I don't see why if you don't like the alternatives, you can't just ignore them and move on to another post rather then get so upset. Wed Sep 10 16:35:52 -0700 2003 1085742 0 wurstle 3 1085852 MM (and all the other "can't leave your hostility at the keyboard" posters) - The point of this website is to help food-lovers find more food to love (or know what to avoid): not to release aggression on a poster. There are ways to give an opinion and try to steer someone elsewhere without having to stoop to insulting them or their tastes. Where this need comes from to make someone feel bad for what is, at worst, an uninformed question is unclear to me. And more to the point of the thread, Little Italy used to be a lot less little than it is now, and also a source for - if not gourmet-quality - certainly decent Italian food in what felt like an authentic setting. As a 3rd generation Manhattanite, I used to go there as a kid and love nothing more than soaking up red sauce with a fresh, warm piece of Italian white bread. Alas, that experience is hard (if not impossible) to find there now, but many tourist guides probably still hail the area as one of the last "true Italian neighborhoods." It's good if we can help give posters the right information, not so good if we scare people off the site. Thu Sep 11 08:25:44 -0700 2003 1085742 0 Mara 4 1086056 Well, sorry to vent but the fact is Little Italy threads are fairly common here and always draw the same snobbish "wouldn't be caught dead there" responses, which are useless. People who dismiss the entire area and say they would never go there have no new information. Restaurants and personnel change all the time, so who's to say that the place dismissed three years ago doesn't actually serve some decent food now? So if you never go there, you don't have current information and shouldn't even bother to respond. I can see the value of someone suggesting other places in Manhattan that serve superior Italian food. Less tolerable are the "you should go to Brooklyn" posts, considering this is the Manhattan board. I can't think of anything more ridiculous than suggesting someone who has an interest in Little Italy should visit Chinatown instead. That's like asking someone if tickets are available for a hockey game and having them respond that you should really go to the opera. Just pass along valid, current information if you have it. Otherwise, stay out and don't judge anyone or their tastes. Fri Sep 12 05:09:12 -0700 2003 1085852 0 Milano Mario 5 1086059 MM--   i agree with most of what you're saying, but I strongly disagree with the belligerent tone with which you're making it (and with which others are responding).   The only thing sillier than someone ignorantly waving off a bunch of restaurants he/she may never have tried is someone snidely waving off waver-offers. At least the former are expressing some sort of food opinion. You're just expressing a people opinion, and our mantra around here is hate the chow, love the chowhound.   If you disagree, shed light rather than spite. Tell us where to go. Get past the personal and lead us with chow!   Everyone: I'm glad this thread is starting to tone down. There are a few good tips and thoughts, and I'd hate to lose them because folks let emotion get the best of them and created a mess the moderators had to clean up. We all just passed a rather significant anniversary yesterday, and I, for one, just can't get all hot and bothered by issues like this. We're here in leisure time to enjoy and inform each other. Relax and get chowy, everyone!   ciao Fri Sep 12 08:05:29 -0700 2003 1086056 0 Jim Leff 6 1086123 Keeping in mind Jim's very pertinent and well-taken admonition to keep the potential hostility level down, I do think I have to stick up here for my fellow posters, who I thought were being as helpful as possible under the circumstances, and not at all "snobbish." That is, unless one considers the whole search for good food that is the mission of this board to be somehow "snobbish." Im my years in NYC I have personally eaten in well over a dozen restaurants in Little Italy (to name a few that come immediately to mind: Luna, Taormina, Il Cortile, Umberto's, Sal Anthony's, Little Charlie's, Il Fornaio, the late Grotta Azzura, Da Nico, Pellegrino's), and have yet to have a meal there that was anything more than passable, and several that were downright bad. By all accounts, both here and elsewhere, I am hardly the only one to have had this experience. So in my opinion, and it seems in the opinion of many others here, the problem posed by the original poster, looking for good home-style Italian food at a decent price in Little Italy, is essentially unresolvable. So several folks on this board reached for answers that might satisfy at least part of the original poster's request -- either recommending places for good Italian food, or for good food near Little Italy (and, from some posters, even good Italian food reasonably close to L.I.). I'm not really sure why anyone should find it so shocking or offensive that some would look to Chinese food as an alternative, since Little Italy is now essentially inside Chinatown, and since some of the best Chinese food in the city can be found a block (or less) away from Mulberry St. Since the primary thrust of this board is helping people to find good food, it only seems logical to me that this would be offered as an alternative, particularly if one's guests wanted to actually see Little Italy. The posts in questions are, after all, just suggestions, and all of them seem to have been made in an attempt to help the original poster with the problem she laid out. The original poster is, of course, free to make his/her own decisions based on what is important to him/her, but I don't think that the posters here have crossed any lines by offering that poster several potential alternatives to his/her request. Unless one has some proprietary interest in Little Italy, I'm hard-pressed to see why helpfully offering alternatives to what many of us see as the mediocre fare offered there should be perceived as in any way offensive. Fri Sep 12 13:27:56 -0700 2003 1086059 0 Detroit-NYC Al 6 1086192 But what good is a food opinion if it's rooted in supposition rather than knowledge? If you never go to a place, by definition you have no idea what they're serving these days. It may be great or gruesome or anything in between those extremes. If you don't go, you don't really know. Seems to me a blanket "there's nothing worthwhile in Little Italy" is dangerously broad, especially when some of the people espousing that point of view admit they don't sample the restaurants there. The topic of Little Italy seems to come up fairly often and always draws the same kind of response. All I'm saying is people who ask a legitimate question are ill-served by responses telling them to not only go somewhere else, but to choose an entirely different kind of cuisine. Fri Sep 12 20:22:49 -0700 2003 1086059 0 Milano Mario 7 1086199 "But what good is a food opinion if it's rooted in supposition rather than knowledge? " Again, i agree with your point. But you are missing MINE, which is: judge chow, not chowhounds. Argue on the merits. Stick to the food, this isn't a debate, it's a friendly exchange of info and opinion. If you want to have zowee impact, send people somewhere so great that they forever kowtow to your superior chowhounding skills. That's a whole lot more constructive than berating them. Keep it utilitarian and chowy,. ciao Fri Sep 12 21:22:55 -0700 2003 1086192 0 Jim Leff